Are the Expats working in Thailand any good?

[rooster59]

Are the Expats working in Thailand any good?

By Dan Cheeseman

 

 

Through my job here in Thailand I am always meeting new working expats from all over the country although mainly in Bangkok. Prior to working in Thailand I spent over 10 years working in London. The two companies I worked for in the UK were Coca-Cola Enterprises and the Post Office and I held various roles in that time from account management to more strategic roles. My head office in Thailand is still Pattaya, where I initially set up, but my time now is increasingly spent in Bangkok.

 

I was out for a meal with a successful German entrepreneur just the other week and the topic of staff came up, which is quite usual actually. It was the usual small talk about the struggle to find good Thai staff, interestingly he refuses to have direct contact with Thai employees and makes sure all his senior team that report to him are foreign. “I work too fast for Thais, they cannot keep up” was his rationale. This guy is smart by the way and repeatedly having success in business set ups, I would love to tell you the brands, but trust me you use at least two of them in Thailand.

 

I then discussed my plight working in Pattaya and in finding decent professional working expats, as with very few exceptions they just don’t exist. He laughed and said not to expect that to change if I relocated the business to Bangkok. His next move was Singapore.

 

It shocked me, I always felt Bangkok had a good mix of working expats. I have certainly come across quite a few in recent months from country managers of hotel chains, to business owners of large companies and even many small new set ups. I guess what he was saying is they are the exception.

 

The timing of his comments came at the wrong time as we were dining with my wife present, and she is looking for any excuse to relocate back to the UK. But his comments stopped me in my tracks, was my impending move to Bangkok going to give the enrichment I was so looking for?

 

Full story: https://danaboutthailand.com/2018/05/25/are-the-expats-working-in-thailand-any-good/

 

DAN ABOUT THAILAND

Weekly Vlogs and Blogs from in and around Thailand

[cornishcarlos]

What's the point of your "story" ??

 

All I get from it is Thai staff are shit and expat staff are shit !! Is that it... ?

Edited May 26, 2018 by cornishcarlos

[daoyai]

I will assume the Cheezyman is competent in his profession but at his sideline as a "writer" he sucks.

[sungod]

I just did my own survey, out of all the expats I know in Bangkok or Laem Chabang who are either running successful multinational businesses or hold senior positions in them, none follow Dan about Thailand' on Twitter or Facebook. I think your survey made up mostly of 7'11 drinkers maybe be flawed.

 

I cant believe Dan has been here so long and learnt zilch, maybe going back to the UK will work best for him, as he obviously has not grasped it here.

Edited May 26, 2018 by sungod

[cornishcarlos]

6 minutes ago, daoyai said:

I will assume the Cheezyman is competent in his profession

 

You know what they say about assumption !!

[poanoi]

monolingual language teachers are ineffective, but other than that, there's no reason a european would work less heere than in europe, i would even say the fact they relocated to another continent shows enterprise and initiative

[55Jay]

Has it occurred to the OP that the elusive "competent expat" here may hold the very same opinion?

 

The ungrateful idiots! ?

[zaphod reborn]

Dan, you are really outside your area of expertise, which is online marketing.  I know, because I had contact with you before you were ever involved with Thaivisa.  This blog post should have been assigned to a journalist, which you are not.  A journalist could have interviewed expat HR managers and recruiters in Bangkok (like myself with 12 years of experience in Thailand) to get a professional assessment of the  relative skills of Thais and expats in the labor pool.  Instead you published a load of crap and passed it off as "content".  Stick to your skill-set and assign topics like this out to your team who will do the legwork it takes to research this kind of article.

Edited May 26, 2018 by zaphod reborn

[colinneil]

Dan do yourself a favour quit now before you look more ridiculous.

[mstevens]

Why does the forum publish thus guy's stuff?  There are plenty of bloggers out there with much more insightthan this guy.  And why does he always have to include "I worked in the UK for some big-name company...." all the time?  That is even more nauseating than his shallow commentaries.  ThaiVisa, these posts are beyond boring!

[richard_smith237]

I think Dan touches on some valid points, but I'm not quite in agreement with his conclusions. 

 

The average expat or long term stayer in Thailand is not of the same 'quality' as the average expat or long term stayer in Singapore or Hong Kong. 

 

The reasons why are fairly obvious... the cost of living and 'other' primary reasons for many to be here in the first place. 

 

When out and about in Singapore, in a pub etc I find that in meeting others there is a far higher probability that they are a professional in their field, on the other hand when out in Thailand, in a pub etc, I find that there is a larger majority of those I meet with 'questionable' careers and indeed personalities - it seems there is an additional layer of defensiveness here which lends to the stereotypical conclusion of 'shadiness'.

 

Of course the inflated retired community in Thailand also skews this somewhat, I imagine that places such as Singapore and Hong Kong are not enjoyable places to retire unless one has family and a large network of friends there. 

 

One of Dan's interviewees touched on the point that the Quality of expat worker in Singapore did not differ much from that of the expat worker in Thailand. I think this is a valid point, I know scores of expats in professional and well paid positions, its just that this 'higher end' (for want of a better description) level of expat is less common. I suspect this is because of the reduced density of 'expat friendly' businesses here compared to Singapore and other comparable cities throughout the region. 

 

Knowing a few business seniors here in Thailand I am aware of the difficulty in finding 'quality staff'... there is an inherent apathy in many graduates who seem not to mature until well into their 30's. I have always put this down to the fact that when at university these young adults are still living at home and in-fact are not young adults at all but still children who have yet to develop their independence. 

 

Thus on the balance of probability if we take 100 qualified graduates from any Western country vs 100 qualified graduates from Thailand we are more likely to be able to draw a fairly obvious conclusions with regards to their ability to perform.

 

That said, having worked here and regionally for numbers of years there are scores of highly professional, astute and incredibly clever Thai employees who are a pleasure to work with. 

 

The one truth is that while we can generalize and offer an aggregate opinion it is often flawed and can be disproven with real life examples from the offset and that is the problem with a blog such as this.

When drawing on discussion points and offering any conclusion there will be many who disagree. Of course, this being an expat forum in Thailand the many who disagree do so a degree of sourness and bitterness which could in itself lend to further conclusions regarding the 'quality' of expat in Thailand vs other areas. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[grollies]

1 hour ago, mstevens said:

Why does the forum publish thus guy's stuff?  There are plenty of bloggers out there with much more insightthan this guy.  And why does he always have to include "I worked in the UK for some big-name company...." all the time?  That is even more nauseating than his shallow commentaries.  ThaiVisa, these posts are beyond boring!

maybe something to do with him being the MD of Thai Visa? Just a thought.

[Get Real]

Please, Dan! For crying out load. Stop hurting us with this silly mubo jumbo, that hits us stright in the face right on time for setting the morning coffée in the wrong place.
At least don´t do it on a peaceful saturday morning. I am a webdesigner and content writer since 15 year back in time. Just get it when i say, this just ain´t your bag, dude!
If you feel the need to continue, at least do it on mondays. It seems like mondays already are accepted as a day of malfuctioning stuff.

Edited May 26, 2018 by Get Real

[hansnl]

5 hours ago, cornishcarlos said:

What's the point of your "story" ??

 

All I get from it is Thai staff are shit and expat staff are shit !! Is that it... ?

An employer will get the staff he deserves.

[sungod]

Seems indeed that the staff working for Dan on the Forum especially on the tech side are completely useless/incompetent as the forum has been having error messages all week, and no one can fix it.

[mickymouse1]

 what exactly do you want??

[lamyai3]

6 hours ago, cornishcarlos said:

What's the point of your "story" ??

1) 100% of expats are no good. 

2) The other 50% are into ladyboys.

[Dararasmi]

Working in Thailand...what a horrifying thought. (Or anyplace, for that matter.)

[freethinker]

Business owners always think their employees are lazy. Somehow they always seem surprised that their employees won't want to work themselves to death for them or don't care about the company the same way the owner does. 

 

I do the work i'm paid to do, you want extras you offer something extra in return. 

 

[natway09]

Before you rubbish all of us who are working Expats start organizing yourself.

Do you wish to employ someone ?

Then advertise in the right places & you will find them.

As to your friend who refuses to work directly with Thais I think he is the goose

[theguyfromanotherforum]

3 hours ago, grollies said:

maybe something to do with him being the MD of Thai Visa? Just a thought.

 

What's MD?

[colinneil]

1 minute ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

What's MD?

Managing director

 

[1FinickyOne]

Why don't you interview first and see what you turn up?

 

Finding good employees is a challenge anywhere. My last 2 years in business, I only hired manager level people and paid them as such, even to do the jobs that were the lowest rungs. It was a good idea too. 

[PerkinsCuthbert]

6 hours ago, zaphod reborn said:

Dan, you are really outside your area of expertise, which is online marketing.  I know, because I had contact with you before you were ever involved with Thaivisa.  This blog post should have been assigned to a journalist, which you are not.  A journalist could have interviewed expat HR managers and recruiters in Bangkok (like myself with 12 years of experience in Thailand) to get a professional assessment of the  relative skills of Thais and expats in the labor pool.  Instead you published a load of crap and passed it off as "content".  Stick to your skill-set and assign topics like this out to your team who will do the legwork it takes to research this kind of article.

Ouch!

[Jeremia Juxtaposed]

Dan....You really do put the hee in Cheeseman..... You may need an expat to explain than one to you.... but the clue is in Scunthorpe....

[scorecard]

First Dan, what do you mean by good?

 

First there are the farang assigned to work here by an MNC etc., in my experience these people are highly capable. The reality is an MNC doesn't pay all the costs of full expat assignments for poor work / no value added.

 

Are you saying 'group are no good?

 

On the other hand have you considered how many highly capable foreigners (capable at the level just above) deliberately move themselves her and then look for a job?come here without a job? My belief is that the numbers are not great. Further, those really capable at the MNC level, if they decide to resign and move themselves to Thailand would probably do some checking (one example contact a professional headhunter to see what the possibilities are). A few would find a job but many not because the openings are very limited.  

 

Then we have the the foreigners, mostly nice people, who just decide to move to Thailand without a job including those who came here for a 10 day holiday and believe they have discovered utopia, but in reality have limited professional knowledge, skills, drive, and experience to crack the very few jobs available at high levels. Many in this group have convinced themselves that a Thai company will hire them just because they can speak English or a diploma in IT gained 20 years ago - not reality at all. 

 

Are these the folks you're looking for Dan?

 

Then we have the large numbers of sex tourists, vagrants, thugs who have moved to Thailand who mostly will never crack a job here. And in this group there are many who just want to get enough money for their next ride but have no desire to contribute anything, come late / miss work, etc. I've come across  a few of these guys in well over 30 years here, some I wouldn't allow to enter my house.

 

Are these the folks you're looking for Dan?

 

In well over 30 years here I've had a few farang call me and say you don't know me but I want you to call xxxxx and give them a good work recommendation for me. I don't call.

 

Are these the folks you're looking for Dan?

 

This is the reality of Thailand Dan.  

 

 

[scorecard]

First Dan, what do you mean by good?

 

First there are the farang assigned to work here by an MNC etc., in my experience these people are highly capable. The reality is an MNC doesn't pay all the costs of full expat assignments for poor work / no value added.

 

Are you saying 'group are no good?

 

On the other hand have you considered how many highly capable foreigners (capable at the level just above) deliberately move themselves her and then look for a job?come here without a job? My belief is that the numbers are not great. Further, those really capable at the MNC level, if they decide to resign and move themselves to Thailand would probably do some checking (one example contact a professional headhunter to see what the possibilities are). A few would find a job but many not because the openings are very limited.  

 

Then we have the the foreigners, mostly nice people, who just decide to move to Thailand without a job including those who came here for a 10 day holiday and believe they have discovered utopia, but in reality have limited professional knowledge, skills, drive, and experience to crack the very few jobs available at high levels. Many in this group have convinced themselves that a Thai company will hire them just because they can speak English or a diploma in IT gained 20 years ago - not reality at all. 

 

Are these the folks you're looking for Dan?

 

Then we have the large numbers of sex tourists, vagrants, thugs who have moved to Thailand who mostly will never crack a job here. And in this group there are many who just want to get enough money for their next ride but have no desire to contribute anything, come late / miss work, etc. I've come across  a few of these guys in well over 30 years here, some I wouldn't allow to enter my house.

 

Are these the folks you're looking for Dan?

 

In well over 30 years here I've had a few farang call me and say you don't know me but I want you to call xxxxx and give them a good work recommendation for me. I don't call.

 

Are these the folks you're looking for Dan?

 

This is the reality of Thailand Dan IMHO.

 

Comparisons to Singapore is a waste of time for obvious reasons.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 26, 2018 by scorecard

[OneMoreFarang]

One look should be enough...

 

https://danaboutthailand.com/about-me/

 

[snowbak]

I’m not really sure where you are looking expat staff.   I have been looking for a good expat position in Thailand now for years.   When I say good I mean longevity and pay.  It seems everything I apply for is either term based or low pay.   

Maybe if the positions you are referring to were long term and pay which is decent it would be easier to find quality employees.   

Me, US education (master degree) 25+ years project management, project engineering and business capture.   

[Quidio]

There are plenty of good expats, but with the visa situation and other concerns, it's hard to find them.   I know people who have had pretty impressive careers who, for a variety of reasons, end up in Thailand, but are relegated to teaching as the only means of supporting themselves and remaining in the country.   

 

Once situated, I suspect that many of them aren't looking for other work.   It's also hard to find employees because often employers are looking for someone with a specialized field.   

 

It's not like in Western Countries where when you put out an ad, you get a hundred well qualified applicants.