Israeli army kills Palestinian nurse in Gaza border protest - medics

[buick]

3 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

I am sure that it will be possible to establish a peace force that is not biased and objective documentation about what really happens over there is badly needed .

if you are so sure, can you give some names of the countries or the region ?  i don't see any european troops moving in.  i would think forces from the arab nations would not work too well.  obviously the US wouldn't be appropriate.  maybe asia/china ?

[nobodysfriend]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

That is how you present things. Doesn't have a whole lot to do with reality. If one doesn't negotiate with enemies, who then? And if you wish to imply negotiations are impossible - what's the answer then? More futile, pointless violence?

Stop to put words in my mouth that I have not said , PC

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

Arrogance at it's best ... It is not my job here to discuss what countries could participate in an UN peace force , I am sure that can be established , even you will not like it ..

 

Arrogance would be to claim to be "sure" something of this magnitude can be achieved, without actually bothering to address how.

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, thaiguzzi said:

hey, can't say anything bad about the Jews...…..

Pathetic.

Although you are quite welcome to say anything bad about Israel and Israelis .

Most Jews are not Israeli , so, it would be quite unfair to critisise Jews , when referring to Israelis

[nobodysfriend]

5 minutes ago, buick said:

if you are so sure, can you give some names of the countries or the region ?  i don't see any european troops moving in.  i would think forces from the arab nations would not work too well.  obviously the US wouldn't be appropriate.  maybe asia/china ?

may be , anyway it is not my job to set up a peace force , I just think that it is about time to have one there , the rest is up to politics ...

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

Stop to put words in my mouth that I have not said , PC

 

No words were "put in your mouth". I pointed out that your comment was how you present things - and that it is not necessarily much to do with reality. In reality, Israelis and Palestinians did negotiate, and despite a whole lot of things there is a level of cooperation between the sides.

 

Such negotiations are usually carried out between rivals sides, enemies, whatever. That's how it works.

 

 

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, nobodysfriend said:

may be , anyway it is not my job to set up a peace force , I just think that it is about time to have one there , the rest is up to politics ...

What would a peace force do ?

Would a peace force stop the Palestinians from attacking the fence and if so, how?

    How would a peace force keep the peace ?

[buick]

3 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

may be , anyway it is not my job to set up a peace force , I just think that it is about time to have one there , the rest is up to politics ...

as noted below, the whole concept began with this conflict (albeit with some different players than today). 

 

The United Nations Peacekeeping began in 1948. Its first mission was in the Middle East to observe and maintain the ceasefire during the 1948 Arab–Israeli War.

[buick]

3 minutes ago, sanemax said:

What would a peace force do ?

they'd get hurt and then leave.

[nobodysfriend]

3 minutes ago, sanemax said:

What would a peace force do ?

Would a peace force stop the Palestinians from attacking the fence and if so, how?

    How would a peace force keep the peace ?

No , probably not , but a PF would deliver unbiased documentation about what's happening .

[Morch]

5 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

Again : It is time to have objectivly reported what happens over there , too many lies , If you want to know details , ask Erdogan who originally made that proposition ...

Not my job here to discuss details with somebody who does not seem to be able to understand

 

In short, you have no real clue, just think it would be a "very good idea", and you are "sure" it could be carried out. Doubt Erdogan is either an authority on the matter or that he could be called "objective".

 

Edited June 2, 2018 by Morch

[buick]

maybe the russians can do it.  i believe they supplied the arms/equipment that the israeli's used back in 1948.  maybe israel still gives them some credit for that.  iran and russia are somewhat friendly so that might be okay for the palestinians.  whoever does do it, has to be tough, can't walk away after one of their's dies.  china and russia might fit that bill.

[Morch]

9 minutes ago, buick said:

maybe the russians can do it.  i believe they supplied the arms/equipment that the israeli's used back in 1948.  maybe israel still gives them some credit for that.  iran and russia are somewhat friendly so that might be okay for the palestinians.  whoever does do it, has to be tough, can't walk away after one of their's dies.  china and russia might fit that bill.

 

Russia was reluctant about committing troops to monitor supposed safe-zones in Syria. I don't know that they are up to getting involved in yet another quagmire. As for them being trusted by Israel - very doubtful. There's a sort of functional understanding and coordination, but trust isn't part of it.

 

As for the Palestinians - which leadership would sign up for this? And which would be held accountable? The Fatah controlled PA or the Hamas? 

 

A UN mission which will focus on keeping the peace, without dealing with other aspects (such as arms smuggling and productions) would simply be setting the stage for the next round.

 

 

 

[sanemax]

19 minutes ago, buick said:

maybe the russians can do it.  i believe they supplied the arms/equipment that the israeli's used back in 1948.  maybe israel still gives them some credit for that.  iran and russia are somewhat friendly so that might be okay for the palestinians.  whoever does do it, has to be tough, can't walk away after one of their's dies.  china and russia might fit that bill.

Where would  the Iranian/Chinese/Russians set up camp ?

Israelis on one side . Palestinians on the other , with Iranians/Russians and Chinese in between , I cannot envisage them all living happily ever after , it would probably cause the outbreak of WW3

[buick]

12 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Russia was reluctant about committing troops to monitor supposed safe-zones in Syria. I don't know that they are up to getting involved in yet another quagmire. As for them being trusted by Israel - very doubtful. There's a sort of functional understanding and coordination, but trust isn't part of it.

 

As for the Palestinians - which leadership would sign up for this? And which would be held accountable? The Fatah controlled PA or the Hamas? 

 

A UN mission which will focus on keeping the peace, without dealing with other aspects (such as arms smuggling and productions) would simply be setting the stage for the next round.

 

 

 

russia may have one too many quaqmire's on their plate right now, that is true.  i was thinking iran could convince hamas on russia but that does leave a few loose ends.  trust is such a difficult thing.

[buick]

9 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Where would  the Iranian/Chinese/Russians set up camp ?

Israelis on one side . Palestinians on the other , with Iranians/Russians and Chinese in between , I cannot envisage them all living happily ever after , it would probably cause the outbreak of WW3

that's right.  they'd be right in the middle of the firing line.  doing what the UN does best, keeping the peace !!! 

[sanemax]

3 minutes ago, buick said:

that's right.  they'd be right in the middle of the firing line.  doing what the UN does best, keeping the peace !!! 

How would thatpeaceforce stop the Palestinians attacking the border fence ?

[buick]

6 minutes ago, sanemax said:

How would thatpeaceforce stop the Palestinians attacking the border fence ?

they'd have to shoot them.  if not willing, then they'd have to duck down to allow the IDF to open fire.  just being honest, not sarcastic.

[darksidedog]

A significant number of posts and replies have been removed.

This is a topic under discussion about Israeli army killing a Palestinian Nurse in the Gaza border protest.

Insults about peoples intelligence levels, making broad statements of fact with nothing to back it up, conjecture, bickering, baiting and trolling are not allowed. I am not at all impressed with some of the posters here today.

Stick to the topic under discussion please. If I have to come back and clean up multiple pages again, warnings and holidays will follow.

If you see chunks of your posts gone, you should pay special attention.

Edit: Add one post removal of comment about moderation, from a very lucky poster.

[buick]

1 minute ago, nobodysfriend said:

if the Israelis would achieve all their goals , what would the world look like ?

sorry to jump in here but i think israel has achieved all of their goals.  that is a big part of the reason there is no real discussion on peace.  israel has what it wants already.  so the world would look as it is today.

[nobodysfriend]

2 minutes ago, buick said:

sorry to jump in here but i think israel has achieved all of their goals.  that is a big part of the reason there is no real discussion on peace.  israel has what it wants already.  so the world would look as it is today.

You mean living in permanent fear that somebody wants to kill you is their goal ? after all they are surrounded by neighbours who prefer that hey disappear forever ...

bye bye , bonne nuit ...

[buick]

1 minute ago, nobodysfriend said:

You mean living in permanent fear that somebody wants to kill you is their goal ? after all they are surrounded by neighbours who prefer that hey disappear forever ...

bye bye , bonne nuit ...

i think egypt and jordan are totally fine with israel.  lebanon and syria are sidelined.  iran's quest for nuclear arms is one problem for israel.  that is one goal they have not achieved.

[simple1]

A brave woman, who had been working in the conflict zone as a medic volunteer for a while. 

 

"I am returning and not retreating," Najar's last Facebook post said. "Hit me with your bullets. I am not afraid."

 

 

For all medics in a conflict zone....RESPECT

 

Edited June 2, 2018 by simple1

[ELVIS123456]

Hamas has achieved its aim - stir up the people and cause deaths - and then use those deaths to push their cause - the destruction of Israel and the death of all Jews inside it.  

The death of a medic has given them exactly what they wanted - a high profile situation that gives them the appearance of being in the right.

Tragic is it is, I very much doubt that an Israel soldier deliberately shot her as she was running to help someone with her arms in the air. 

Whatever the Hamas "health officials" say is extremely likely to be false.  More likely is that it was a ricochet or a shot that went astray.

This whole thing has been goping on for many weeks now - and Israel is only defending its borders from terrorists.

Hamas are proven terrorists who will do anyuthing to advance their cause.

 

https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/After-barrage-of-more-than-130-rockets-Israelis-wake-to-cautious-calm-558704

 

This is a detailed list of Palestinian rocket and mortar attacks on Israel in 2017. All of the attacks originated in the Gaza Strip, unless stated otherwise. This list does not include reports of deaths and injuries caused by Palestinian rocket and mortar attacks that fell within Gaza.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2017

On May 29 this year, coinciding with all the Hamas plannned protests and attacks,  there were 70 rockets and mortars fired at Israel.

 

Check this out for some of the truth behind the protests - it is all about getting the western media and gullible people to support them (and it is working).

https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-new-videos-idf-accuses-gazans-of-faking-injury-taking-small-kids-to-riots/

 

 

 

 

[geriatrickid]

11 hours ago, Elfin said:

Where is your evidence for this? Do you want the Palestinians to just give in, lay down and die? They are different to you and have every right to protest and resist!

Where is your evidence to support the  claim that she was a nurse because she was not a nurse. Putting on a white coat does not make someone a nurse. 

Razan al-Najjar, 21, a volunteer with the Gaza health ministry, was fatally shot in the chest near Khan Younis on Friday, Palestinian officials said.

as reported by AFP.

In Gaza, nurses work for either an approved foreign NGOs or the Gaza Health Ministry. There is no such thing as a volunteer nurse. If they are a nurse they have to work through one of the registered nursing entities. Do you know why? Aside from the typical Arab bureaucracy it is because Hamas claims that  health workers can be foreign spies and that is why they are not allowed to work outside of Hamas supervised entities.

 

According to the actual press release;

Razan al-Najjar, 21, a volunteer with the Gaza health ministry, was fatally shot in the chest near Khan Younis on Friday, Palestinian officials said. This does not make her a qualified medical person, let alone a nurse. 

 

I like this quote from her relative as he  attempts to paint her in a positive light;

Najjar was less than 100 yards from the border fence, treating a man who been struck by a tear gas canister, when she was shot, according a relative, Ibrahim al-Najjar, who was there and who said he carried her to an ambulance.

“I told her it was dangerous to approach [the fence] but she answered that she was not afraid to die and wanted to help the young man,” a fellow medic told Gaza reporters, according to Haaretz.

 

Gee, let's all go attack the Israeli border and then complain when we are injured. Brilliant. Just another  attacker who got too close to the violent confrontation and paid with her life.

 

 

 

[geriatrickid]

4 hours ago, simple1 said:

A brave woman, who had been working in the conflict zone as a medic volunteer for a while. 

 

"I am returning and not retreating," Najar's last Facebook post said. "Hit me with your bullets. I am not afraid."

For all medics in a conflict zone....RESPECT

 

 

Not brave, just stupid.

Her death achieves nothing. NOTHING. She participated in a violent attack on Israel and died. Propaganda for Hamas, but nothing else.  You will forget about her next month. Do you remember the names of the  jihadists who died last week? Last month? Last year? 5 years ago?

 

If she was that dedicated to improving the lives of the Arabs in Hamas ruled Gaza, she could have helped women with family planning so they were not denied birth control and forced to produce 10+ kids, or she could have taught sex education to the young  children so that they understand it is not appropriate for older relatives to  rape young boys and  girls aged 10 or 5.  Or she could have volunteered with one of the many NGOs working to address Gaza's obesity and smoking epidemic. More Gazans die in any given month due to heart & lung disease due to smoking and over eating than they do of  violence with Israel.

Nothing stopped this woman from having a peaceful life except her hatred for Israel and her being brainwashed by Islamic wackos.

 

[Thorgal]

1 hour ago, geriatrickid said:

Where is your evidence to support the  claim that she was a nurse because she was not a nurse. Putting on a white coat does not make someone a nurse. 

Razan al-Najjar, 21, a volunteer with the Gaza health ministry, was fatally shot in the chest near Khan Younis on Friday, Palestinian officials said.

as reported by AFP.

In Gaza, nurses work for either an approved foreign NGOs or the Gaza Health Ministry. There is no such thing as a volunteer nurse. If they are a nurse they have to work through one of the registered nursing entities. Do you know why? Aside from the typical Arab bureaucracy it is because Hamas claims that  health workers can be foreign spies and that is why they are not allowed to work outside of Hamas supervised entities.

 

According to the actual press release;

Razan al-Najjar, 21, a volunteer with the Gaza health ministry, was fatally shot in the chest near Khan Younis on Friday, Palestinian officials said. This does not make her a qualified medical person, let alone a nurse. 

 

I like this quote from her relative as he  attempts to paint her in a positive light;

Najjar was less than 100 yards from the border fence, treating a man who been struck by a tear gas canister, when she was shot, according a relative, Ibrahim al-Najjar, who was there and who said he carried her to an ambulance.

“I told her it was dangerous to approach [the fence] but she answered that she was not afraid to die and wanted to help the young man,” a fellow medic told Gaza reporters, according to Haaretz.

 

Gee, let's all go attack the Israeli border and then complain when we are injured. Brilliant. Just another  attacker who got too close to the violent confrontation and paid with her life.

 

 

 

 

Most Israelis went to the IDF and are still reservist in case of...

 

For the Palestinians it's different. They remain medic or nurse all their life.

[Thorgal]

1 hour ago, geriatrickid said:

 

Not brave, just stupid.

Her death achieves nothing. NOTHING. She participated in a violent attack on Israel and died. Propaganda for Hamas, but nothing else.  You will forget about her next month. Do you remember the names of the  jihadists who died last week? Last month? Last year? 5 years ago?

 

If she was that dedicated to improving the lives of the Arabs in Hamas ruled Gaza, she could have helped women with family planning so they were not denied birth control and forced to produce 10+ kids, or she could have taught sex education to the young  children so that they understand it is not appropriate for older relatives to  rape young boys and  girls aged 10 or 5.  Or she could have volunteered with one of the many NGOs working to address Gaza's obesity and smoking epidemic. More Gazans die in any given month due to heart & lung disease due to smoking and over eating than they do of  violence with Israel.

Nothing stopped this woman from having a peaceful life except her hatred for Israel and her being brainwashed by Islamic wackos.

 

 

Your 1st paragraph: you downplay the illegal murder of the Palestinian nurse.

 

Your 2nd paragraph: you put the victim outside the crime scene.

 

At least I got it !

[simple1]

6 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

 

Not brave, just stupid. <snip>

Your opinion with which I thoroughly disagree. Plenty of civilians who have received life changing injuries from IDF actions. An extract from a prior post by you which seems to imply it's OK to kill someone assisting the injured.

 

Najjar was less than 100 yards from the border fence, treating a man who been struck by a tear gas canister, when she was shot

 

The woman made a decision to try and save live's  / minimise suffering - IMO your attitude is appalling.

Edited June 2, 2018 by simple1

[Morch]

7 hours ago, Thorgal said:

 

Most Israelis went to the IDF and are still reservist in case of...

 

For the Palestinians it's different. They remain medic or nurse all their life.

 

That would be you making a petty and incorrect comment again.

Only 50% or so of the Israelis are actually enlisted. Even fewer complete full service or serve as reservists.

Most Palestinians aren't medic or nurses, as much as you'd like to milk the OP for all its worth.