Netanyahu to Macron: Nuclear deal will die, need to tackle Iran's 'aggression'

[webfact]

Netanyahu to Macron: Nuclear deal will die, need to tackle Iran's 'aggression'

By John Irish and Marine Pennetier

 

French President Emmanuel Macron escorts Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu as he leaves the Elysee Palace in Paris, France, June 5, 2018. REUTERS/Philippe Wojazer

 

PARIS (Reuters) - Israel's leader urged France on Tuesday to turn its attention to tackling Iran's "regional aggression", saying he no longer needed to convince Paris to quit world powers' 2015 nuclear deal with Tehran as economic pressure would kill it anyway.

 

Benjamin Netanyahu was in Paris for talks with President Emmanuel Macron as part of a tour to persuade the European signatories - Britain, France and Germany - to follow Washington's lead in pursuing a tough stance on Iran after it pulled out of the accord and reimposed sanctions on Tehran.

 

"I didn't ask France to withdraw from the JCPOA (Iran deal) because I think it is basically going to be dissolved by the weight of economic forces," Netanyahu told a joint news conference with French President Emmanuel Macron.

 

"If you have a bad deal you don't have to stick to it especially if you see that Iran is conquering one country after another and you cannot divorce this from Iran's aggression in the (Middle East) region."

 

The three European powers are scrambling to save the deal - under which Iran curbed its nuclear programme in return for a lifting of international sanctions - as they regard it as the best chance to stop Tehran developing an atomic bomb.

 

Israel maintains that Iran duped the West into a one-sided deal and plans to use the break from sanctions to build up its financial reserves before returning to full-scale enrichment of uranium for future nuclear weapons.

 

Macron did not appear receptive to Netanyahu's argument. "I told the prime minister of my deep conviction, which is shared with our European partners, that the accord needs to be preserved to ensure control of nuclear activity," he said.

 

U.S. President Donald Trump denounced the 2015 accord, reached under predecessor Barack Obama, as it did not cover Iran's ballistic missile programme, its role in Middle East wars or what happens after the deal begins to expire in 2025.

 

The European powers share those concerns but say that the accord, also negotiated with China and Russia, is the best way to prevent Tehran developing a nuclear weapons capability.

 

Macron reiterated that he wanted to open up new negotiations on the other issues of concern to Washington.

 

Iran has long said it wants nuclear energy only for civilian uses. Tehran says its ballistic missiles are for defensive purposes only and non-negotiable, and that it has every right to support its allies involved in regional conflicts.

 

FINANCIAL HEAT

The European powers are trying to come up with a package to ring-fence trade with Iran against renewed U.S. financial sanctions to dissuade Tehran from quitting the accord.

 

But the global reach of the U.S. financial system, forcing companies to choose between two irreconcilable options - selling to Iran or to the vast U.S. market - is driving home the limits of European efforts to create financial mechanisms that could shield revived trade with Tehran.

 

That has left Europe under pressure from Tehran.

 

"If Iran does not get the financial guarantees in oil and access to the financial system, then I don't see Iran sticking to the deal because the pressure from (Iranian) hardliners is only increasing," said a Western official.

 

"It is quite possible they will resume enrichment capacity and research and development of advanced centrifuges to show the Europeans and the world that they are serious."

 

On Monday, Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei said he had ordered preparations to increase uranium enrichment capacity if the nuclear agreement fell apart after the U.S. withdrawal.

 

Iran on Tuesday informed the U.N. nuclear watchdog of "tentative" plans to produce the feedstock for centrifuges, the machines that enrich uranium.

 

"I call on all sides to stabilise the situation and not give into escalation which will lead to one thing: conflict," Macron said, adding that the Iranian statements added to tensions, but were not in violation of the nuclear deal.

 

(Writing by Ori Lewis and John Irish; Editing by Mark Heinrich)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-06-06

[ezzra]

Iran and it's leadership, is the only country on earth that are calling, repeatedly, for the destruction and annihilation of the state of Israel in any means possible, how can any entity that dose that will be to possess weapons of mass destructions or even a remote chance to develop one, as Iran can not be trusted period?.....

[poanoi]

" especially if you see that Iran is conquering one country after another "

 

<deleted> ?! is the iraeli prime minister talking about israels conquests

of the settlements one after another ?

[Grouse]

Really need sanctions and travel bans on USA and Israel. Damned trouble makers.

[tomacht8]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Really need sanctions and travel bans on USA and Israel. Damned trouble makers.

True, all other coutries are wrong.

Only the USA and Israel are always right. 

 

[rudi49jr]

56 minutes ago, poanoi said:

" especially if you see that Iran is conquering one country after another "

 

<deleted> ?! is the iraeli prime minister talking about israels conquests of the settlements one after another ?

You're quite right. Bibi seems to have his wires crossed somewhere.

[meechai]

1 hour ago, ezzra said:

Iran and it's leadership, is the only country on earth that are calling, repeatedly, for the destruction and annihilation of the state of Israel in any means possible, how can any entity that dose that will be to possess weapons of mass destructions or even a remote chance to develop one, as Iran can not be trusted period?.....

 

You could flip Israel & their decades of aggression against Palestinians  into your reasoning

Then add the fact that they (Israel) lied,cheated & stole their way into being Nuclear armed

 

Now ask should we allow them to have weapons of mass destruction given their history?

Many including myself would say no.Because Israel has also shown time and again they cannot be trusted to even not

bite the hands that fed them for decades.

 

We would also like all nuclear armed countries to lay down their weapons but that will not happen.

 

Edited June 6, 2018 by meechai

[ezzra]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

Really need sanctions and travel bans on USA and Israel. Damned trouble makers.

Just so you know, most of the discoveries in health, medicine, technology, agriculture, water resources managements and many many other advancements in living and longevity, over the past 50 years are either invented in the USA or Israel, many of which you'r using right now in your everyday life and your daily existence will unbearable now days without these marvels of human endeavours.. now you go and boycott this...

[Stargeezr]

Iran, another peaceful Musliom country that is just misunderstood by

the non Muslims. Just let them  have a few bombs.  Peaceful, peaceful,

boom.  Oops too late..

[dexterm]

At least there can be a bit more honesty in the debate now.

 

We can now see through this cancelling a-nuclear-deal-that-was-working fiasco. It has always been not about restraining any Iranian nuclear activity (the deal was containing that!) but it is all about protecting the apartheid state of Israel.

 

OP.."U.S. President Donald Trump denounced the 2015 accord, reached under predecessor Barack Obama, as it did not cover Iran's ballistic missile programme, its role in Middle East wars or what happens after the deal begins to expire in 2025."

Phoney. Iran would never have signed up for Trump's 3 part package anyway.

 

The Iranian self defensive ballistic missile program and Iran's role in Syria and Yemen defending their fellow Shia could have been part of a wider UN initiative covering peace and detente in the region...Syria, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Iran all giving a little.

 

US and EU voters have been softened up for a war against Iran ever since Trump hit the campaign trail, after Netanyahu whispered in his ear. I doubt Trump could even find Iran on a world map.

 

OP..
""I didn't ask France to withdraw from the JCPOA (Iran deal) because I think it is basically going to be dissolved by the weight of economic forces," Netanyahu told a joint news conference with French President Emmanuel Macron."

 

All the pieces are falling inexorably into place....

Europe caves in to Trump's sanctions bullying. In that the USA and EU has reneged  why should Iran keep their side of the bargain and so start enriching uranium. Israel has been targetting Iranians in Syria (they were invited there unlike USA) and assassinating Iranian scientists for several years now. Just needs Iran to retaliate and Israel and/or USA have their pretext to bomb Iran. All escalates to war.

 

Hundreds of thousands will be killed on both sides, and just like Iraq, Iran will ultimately be neutralized as a threat to Israel, so that Israel unhindered can continue its illegal occupation and expansion, and offer nothing in return to create peace and detente.

 

Trump and Netanyahu have been colluding on pretexts to justify intervention for the last 2 years. Must have been quite a blow to them that Obama achieved his non proliferation deal. So Trump ditches that ..doesn't suit his war scenario.

 

I just hope the allies are not suckered into another war in defense of Israel. When it all hits the fan, just remember that Trump prompted by Netanyahu started this whole mess.

[ezzra]

4 hours ago, meechai said:

 

You could flip Israel & their decades of aggression against Palestinians  into your reasoning

Then add the fact that they (Israel) lied,cheated & stole their way into being Nuclear armed

 

Now ask should we allow them to have weapons of mass destruction given their history?

Many including myself would say no.Because Israel has also shown time and again they cannot be trusted to even not

bite the hands that fed them for decades.

 

We would also like all nuclear armed countries to lay down their weapons but that will not happen.

 

I tell you what, if Iran was a very young and small country in landmass, with like 3 million people, surrounded with several other countries with far superior weapons and recorcess just itching to destroy and wipeout little Iran of the world map, i would say, Yes, allow Iran to have nukes, but Iran is anything but the above, Iran is a bully and an aggressor Islamic entity who hate the west and want to rule the middle east....

[dexterm]

11 minutes ago, ezzra said:

I tell you what, if Iran was a very young and small country in landmass, with like 3 million people, surrounded with several other countries with far superior weapons and recorcess just itching to destroy and wipeout little Iran of the world map, i would say, Yes, allow Iran to have nukes, but Iran is anything but the above, Iran is a bully and an aggressor Islamic entity who hate the west and want to rule the middle east....

Just about every single word in your propaganda piece is false. You could start by checking Israel's population figures and its nuclear arsenal, that the West hypocritically turns a blind eye to, while they hound Iran for doing the right thing.

Edited June 6, 2018 by dexterm

[ezzra]

10 minutes ago, dexterm said:

At least there can be a bit more honesty in the debate now.

 

We can now see through this cancelling a-nuclear-deal-that-was-working fiasco. It has always been not about restraining any Iranian nuclear activity (the deal was containing that!) but it is all about protecting the apartheid state of Israel.

 

OP.."U.S. President Donald Trump denounced the 2015 accord, reached under predecessor Barack Obama, as it did not cover Iran's ballistic missile programme, its role in Middle East wars or what happens after the deal begins to expire in 2025."

Phoney. Iran would never have signed up for Trump's 3 part package anyway.

 

The Iranian self defensive ballistic missile program and Iran's role in Syria and Yemen defending their fellow Shia could have been part of a wider UN initiative covering peace and detente in the region...Syria, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Iran all giving a little.

 

US and EU voters have been softened up for a war against Iran ever since Trump hit the campaign trail, after Netanyahu whispered in his ear. I doubt Trump could even find Iran on a world map.

 

OP..
""I didn't ask France to withdraw from the JCPOA (Iran deal) because I think it is basically going to be dissolved by the weight of economic forces," Netanyahu told a joint news conference with French President Emmanuel Macron."

 

All the pieces are falling inexorably into place....

Europe caves in to Trump's sanctions bullying. In that the USA and EU has reneged  why should Iran keep their side of the bargain and so start enriching uranium. Israel has been targetting Iranians in Syria (they were invited there unlike USA) and assassinating Iranian scientists for several years now. Just needs Iran to retaliate and Israel and/or USA have their pretext to bomb Iran. All escalates to war.

 

Hundreds of thousands will be killed on both sides, and just like Iraq, Iran will ultimately be neutralized as a threat to Israel, so that Israel unhindered can continue its illegal occupation and expansion, and offer nothing in return to create peace and detente.

 

Trump and Netanyahu have been colluding on pretexts to justify intervention for the last 2 years. Must have been quite a blow to them that Obama achieved his non proliferation deal. So Trump ditches that ..doesn't suit his war scenario.

 

I just hope the allies are not suckered into another war in defense of Israel. When it all hits the fan, just remember that Trump prompted by Netanyahu started this whole mess.

Anyone who was seeing the news very lately would have learned that even Putin of Russia doesn't want Iran in Syria and undertook to clear Syria of all foreign forces, 

The wars in Iraq, Syria, and Yemen have created opportunities for Iran to expand its influence across the region. In each country, the power of Iranian clients has grown, giving Tehran a leading role in their conflicts and an outsize stake in their futures, no one have crowned nor appointed Iran as the shia fate protector and saviour, Iran is doing what is good for Iran only, although Israel and the US are not choir boys when it comes to protecting their interest in the middle east, but compare to Iran, they're still novices.....

 

[ezzra]

6 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Just about every single word in your propaganda piece is false. You could start by checking Israel's population figures and its nuclear arsenal, that the West hypocritically turns a blind eye to, while they hound Iran for doing the right thing.

Israel acquired it's nuclear capabilities back in the 60' when Israel was still a very small country with very small population, if you pinpoint what is a propaganda in my post, i'll be happy to elaborate...

[Ron19]

Posts against forum rules  have been removed.

[Morch]

 

As usual, Netanyahu overdoes things with his hyperbole. Other than rubbing it in, scoring some points with Trump and his base at home, he'd probably get better cooperation if he toned it down some.

 

Much like Trump, Netanyahu position on this differs from views expressed by Israel's military and intelligence services. Their views relate more closely to Macron's - the agreement was acceptable, and a better result than could be hoped for otherwise.

 

When it comes to Iran's regional ambitions and activities, or to its ballistic missile program, there's more of a common ground between the European position and Israel's. The differences relate less to the desirability of curbing these, and more as to the effective ways of achieving these goals. Interestingly enough, seems like Russia is at least partially on the same page there.

 

The European point of view (which I agree with), is that addressing such issues (and even issues directly pertaining to the Iran Deal), are better handled while keeping the framework of the JCPOA. There's no need to flush the whole thing down the toilet.

 

As for the effects of US economic pressure (as in the existing and new sanctions concerning Iran) -  remains to be seen, but I think there are indications that they are more effective than some posters previously asserted. This seems to stem both from the EU's response being more talk than action, and the choice between dealing with Iran and being banned from dealing with the US making things a bit of no-brainier for large firms.

 

This doesn't make Trump's position righteous or even right. It simply implies that loath as some may be to accept this, the US clout and leverage are still very much effective. Thus allowing Trump to promote his foreign policy, misguided as it may be.

 

On this score, though - given that at the same time Trump seems to have managed getting into trade wars with pretty much all parties involved, it remains to be seen how (or if) this will be reflected in the effectiveness of the sanctions regime.

[dick dasterdly]

56 minutes ago, ezzra said:

Just so you know, most of the discoveries in health, medicine, technology, agriculture, water resources managements and many many other advancements in living and longevity, over the past 50 years are either invented in the USA or Israel, many of which you'r using right now in your everyday life and your daily existence will unbearable now days without these marvels of human endeavours.. now you go and boycott this...

I have no idea as to the number of "discoveries in health, medicine, technology, agriculture, water resources managements and many many other advancements in living and longevity, over the past 50 years" attributable to the Israelis (rather than the Americans), but always appreciate learning more so would appreciate your list of Israeli achievements in these areas.

 

Somehow I suspect that little of that has benefited the Palestinians.

 

But this is entirely off-topic.

 

Back on topic, I agree with Meechai.  It would be FAR better if ALL countries agreed to get rid of nuclear weapons, but although Iran is less 'trustable' than Israel - nonetheless it's incomprehensible why there was no fuss about Israel gaining nuclear weapons!

[Morch]

 

@dexterm

 

Honesty is anathema to your posts. Yours is an extreme, one-sided, and obsessive position - little to do with honesty, balance or semblance of objectivity.

 

And as usual, you present things as facts, whereas they are but your opinion.

 

Even if you like to pretend otherwise, the Iran Deal, was neither foolproof, nor enjoyed wall-to-wall support in the US. It was (and it is) a workable solution, if an imperfect one. No need to overdo it.

 

Whether a more comprehensive agreement could have been negotiated at the time can certainly be debated. That you announce it "phoney" and claim Iran would have "never" signed this or that, doesn't make it so. To remind, Iran refused all sorts of things, and with pressure applied, changed its position. Worth pointing out that the next line after the bit you quoted conveys that European powers share those concerns as those of expressed by Trump.

 

Similarly, there isn't much difference of opinion between the US and Europe when it comes to Iran's ballistic missile program. Neither sees it the way you present. The disagreement is more as to the effective ways containing and curbing it.

 

As for the assertions about Iran's role in Syria and Yemen (conveniently leaving out Iraq, Lebanon, Gaza, the Gulf states and more recently, Morocco) being acceptable regionally or internationally have nothing to stand on. Same goes for describing Iran's interventions in such altruistic terms as "defending their fellow Shia". Making up some imaginary "UN initiative covering peace and detente in the region" is all very well - just that it doesn't actually have anything to do with reality.

 

Other than in your alarmist hyperbole posts, there is no war. And other than in your obsessive rants, there are other players involved in ME affairs which aren't Israel. Your narrative fails to mentions Saudi Arabia, the Gulf states, or  Russia. Just the usual obsessive rant - Israel this, Israel that.

 

Pitting your crystal ball "perfect narrative" (something you often complain about) with reality - it remains to be seen how effective Trump's sanctions will be, and how far will Europe bend. Even if Europe does "cave in" - assuming that Iran would immediately resume its nuclear activities at full steam is somewhat doubtful. Doing so will certainly provide a reason for even more crippling sanctions, never mind military action. While making bold statements is easy, I doubt Iran's leadership is eager to risk going to war with the US (or even facing the previous sanctions regime being introduced). If you're having trouble with this non-Armageddon scenario, please refer to how things panned out last time - a whole lot of posturing, and an agreement signed.

[Morch]

47 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Back on topic, I agree with Meechai.  It would be FAR better if ALL countries agreed to get rid of nuclear weapons, but although Iran is less 'trustable' than Israel - nonetheless it's incomprehensible why there was no fuss about Israel gaining nuclear weapons!

 

All countries getting rid of their nuclear weapons ain't on the menu. Getting countries already in possession of nuclear military capability to give it up is extremely complicated, and possibly futile. What remains is to limit the proliferation so that further instances won't arise. That's one reason it makes sense to focus an effort on Iran - precisely because it doesn't have the capability yet. Might not be fair, but in practical terms, and if making a global consideration - that's the way to go.

 

As for the "no fuss" - I think Israel achieved nuclear military capability somewhere in the mid 60's. The NPT came about at the late 60's early 70's, if memory serves. And, of course, different times - the Cold War was on, and perceptions of Israel were nothing like they are today.

 

Again, it may not be "fair" - but fair got little to do with things, nor is it, perhaps, a key concept when it comes to non-proliferation.

[dexterm]

23 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

@dexterm

 

Honesty is anathema to your posts. Yours is an extreme, one-sided, and obsessive position - little to do with honesty, balance or semblance of objectivity.

 

And as usual, you present things as facts, whereas they are but your opinion.

 

Even if you like to pretend otherwise, the Iran Deal, was neither foolproof, nor enjoyed wall-to-wall support in the US. It was (and it is) a workable solution, if an imperfect one. No need to overdo it.

 

Whether a more comprehensive agreement could have been negotiated at the time can certainly be debated. That you announce it "phoney" and claim Iran would have "never" signed this or that, doesn't make it so. To remind, Iran refused all sorts of things, and with pressure applied, changed its position. Worth pointing out that the next line after the bit you quoted conveys that European powers share those concerns as those of expressed by Trump.

 

Similarly, there isn't much difference of opinion between the US and Europe when it comes to Iran's ballistic missile program. Neither sees it the way you present. The disagreement is more as to the effective ways containing and curbing it.

 

As for the assertions about Iran's role in Syria and Yemen (conveniently leaving out Iraq, Lebanon, Gaza, the Gulf states and more recently, Morocco) being acceptable regionally or internationally have nothing to stand on. Same goes for describing Iran's interventions in such altruistic terms as "defending their fellow Shia". Making up some imaginary "UN initiative covering peace and detente in the region" is all very well - just that it doesn't actually have anything to do with reality.

 

Other than in your alarmist hyperbole posts, there is no war. And other than in your obsessive rants, there are other players involved in ME affairs which aren't Israel. Your narrative fails to mentions Saudi Arabia, the Gulf states, or  Russia. Just the usual obsessive rant - Israel this, Israel that.

 

Pitting your crystal ball "perfect narrative" (something you often complain about) with reality - it remains to be seen how effective Trump's sanctions will be, and how far will Europe bend. Even if Europe does "cave in" - assuming that Iran would immediately resume its nuclear activities at full steam is somewhat doubtful. Doing so will certainly provide a reason for even more crippling sanctions, never mind military action. While making bold statements is easy, I doubt Iran's leadership is eager to risk going to war with the US (or even facing the previous sanctions regime being introduced). If you're having trouble with this non-Armageddon scenario, please refer to how things panned out last time - a whole lot of posturing, and an agreement signed.

I believe this is a public forum where posters express opinions. You clearly don't like some of mine. Not a problem.

 

As to the possibility of war, the machinery of pretexts , prodding,  poking and provoking has been put in place now that Trump has ditched a nuclear agreement that was working.

 

It's almost like deja vu all over again. In the previous war in defense of Israel, the emphasis was on WMD as a pretext, and when they weren't found the aim somehow shifted to regime change, then to the war on terror.

 

I certainly hope that it does not come to war, because Israel backed by the USA would ultimately win with many thousands of lives lost, and Trump and Netanyahu would be insufferably drunk with success with carte blanche to do whatever they like. Scary.

 

Time will tell. If the worst case scenario does eventuate, readers will maybe be able to see how events were orchestrated to start a war..

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, ezzra said:

Just so you know, most of the discoveries in health, medicine, technology, agriculture, water resources managements and many many other advancements in living and longevity, over the past 50 years are either invented in the USA or Israel, many of which you'r using right now in your everyday life and your daily existence will unbearable now days without these marvels of human endeavours.. now you go and boycott this...

Well now, a few minutes on Google doesn't show that. Israel doesn't even appear on the listings for medical Nobel prizes or patent applications.

 

And yes, I would certainly avoid American products (except Gibson guitars). I already avoid Israeli products; our family have done so for decades.

 

Is your name spelt correctly? Too many zzzzzzs?

 

Here is a list of top patent holding companies for your amusement

 

http://www.ipo.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/2016_Top-300-Patent-Owners.pdf

Edited June 6, 2018 by Grouse

[Grouse]

Please USA, stay at home and keep out of world affairs. I'm sure you will be much richer and we will be much happier. Toodle Pip!

[Morch]

 

@dexterm

 

There is a difference between presenting opinions, and painting them as fact. The latter is misleading and often practiced in your rants. As per script, no actual reference to issues raised - just a general nothing rejection, and repeat of same faux talking points.

 

You talk about war as if it is a gone conclusion, and you cite past instances which supposedly conform to this point of view. This is all very well - just that it ignores how previous confrontations between Iran and Western (or international) forces panned out. A whole lot of posturing, strong statements, and finally an agreement. IMO, this in part stems from the fact that Iran is not a strongman-led dictatorship (such as Iraq or Libya) - thus situations develop otherwise.

 

That you routinely ignore all other relevant players, and obsessively focus on Israel, doesn't convey a balanced or even an informed take on things. All it does is demonstrate you'll use any related topic as platform to advance your standing agenda. If you wish to pretend other ME countries are not heavily invested in this, or that Russia doesn't have a stake in  things - go right ahead. About as believable as going on about "honest debate".

 

 

The "time will tell" bit is pure nonsense. Your stance got nothing to do with "wait and see". This would imply the willingness to accept and admit interpretations were wrong. No real chance of that as far as you are concerned.

[spidermike007]

Israel, being the apartheid state it is, has very, very little credibility. For some reasons, they seem to be repeating the very thing many Jews escaped from. When Netanyahu asks, the best answer is why would I listen to you? You are a homicidal maniac. You have zero respect for the rule of law. You are not even bordering on a humane man or leader. And your country has an extremist element within it, that your politicians have a very hard time saying no to. 

 

I was not a big fan of Obama. But, one thing I admired about him, was his ability to say no to Israel, something triple D (draft dodging don) has a very hard time doing. 

[Jonmarleesco]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

Netanyahu to Macron: Nuclear deal will die, need to tackle Iran's 'aggression'

Looking in Israel's own backyard could prove eye opening for Netanyahu - and for Macron. But of course, Israel and its view of its importance in the world is unimpeachable.

[off road pat]

3 hours ago, ezzra said:

Just so you know, most of the discoveries in health, medicine, technology, agriculture, water resources managements and many many other advancements in living and longevity, over the past 50 years are either invented in the USA or Israel, many of which you'r using right now in your everyday life and your daily existence will unbearable now days without these marvels of human endeavours.. now you go and boycott this...

Hmm,.. so much bull in one phrase, and forgetting European, Asian and even South American inventions...!!!

Edited June 6, 2018 by off road pat

[dexterm]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

@dexterm

 

There is a difference between presenting opinions, and painting them as fact. The latter is misleading and often practiced in your rants. As per script, no actual reference to issues raised - just a general nothing rejection, and repeat of same faux talking points.

 

You talk about war as if it is a gone conclusion, and you cite past instances which supposedly conform to this point of view. This is all very well - just that it ignores how previous confrontations between Iran and Western (or international) forces panned out. A whole lot of posturing, strong statements, and finally an agreement. IMO, this in part stems from the fact that Iran is not a strongman-led dictatorship (such as Iraq or Libya) - thus situations develop otherwise.

 

That you routinely ignore all other relevant players, and obsessively focus on Israel, doesn't convey a balanced or even an informed take on things. All it does is demonstrate you'll use any related topic as platform to advance your standing agenda. If you wish to pretend other ME countries are not heavily invested in this, or that Russia doesn't have a stake in  things - go right ahead. About as believable as going on about "honest debate".

 

 

The "time will tell" bit is pure nonsense. Your stance got nothing to do with "wait and see". This would imply the willingness to accept and admit interpretations were wrong. No real chance of that as far as you are concerned.

I suggest you reread the topic. Netanyahu was Prime minister of Israel last time I checked. So discussing Israel's role in dictating to Iran and France, Germany, and UK whom they can be friends with is highly relevant.

 

Looks like Macron is also aware of the point I raised that this will possibly lead to war.
[OP...]"I call on all sides to stabilise the situation and not give into escalation which will lead to one thing: conflict," Macron said, adding that the Iranian statements added to tensions, but were not in violation of the nuclear deal.

 

IMO Trump and Netanyahu are deliberately orchestrating such a confrontation and worst case scenario.

 

I hope you appreciate the irony in your final paragraph.

Edited June 6, 2018 by dexterm

[Morch]

 

@dexterm

 

I suggest that you stop deflecting and twisting words. There was nothing in my posts which denies discussion of Israel's role - such was included in my posts as well. The comment made was with regard to your insistence on ignoring other countries being involved. Instead, you try to spin this as being just about Israel. Other than in your posts, Netanyahu "dictate" nothing much.

 

Everyone remotely familiar with the ME is aware that tensions can escalate. There's quite a chasm  between this and your own alarmist hyperbole. Yet another instance in which your misleadingly try to co-opt a public statement. As for your faux concern about war - don't recall you expressing anything but support for the recent inflammatory statements made by Khamenei. Somehow, Iran contributing to tensions is perfectly acceptable.

 

As said on previous discussions, your grasp of what Irony means seems lacking. I do not hold extreme, one-sided views such as yourself, and have no issues with reasoned criticism of either side (if you'll stop pretending you can find that in my original post). As for admitting mistakes - been there, done that. Try harder.

[xtrnuno41]

Mankind, a pittyfull animal. So called "leaders" on top and screwing everything in the name of power. (Yes, we can)

Sometimes fed by religion to make it "real ". We invented religion to suppress so called followers and others.

In the name of the gods we can. We have allah, god, jaweh and long time ago several for all kind of things. Indoctrination made it all

work, with terrible punishments by the gods, if we dont obey. Now the new (?) god is money and power, guess not, it has been always like that.  

There is no country in which a leader is even thinking about fellow man. "Leaders" only think about them selves and the war with other power peoples (leaders). They are just all another hitler, napoleon, nero, caesar, lenin, stalin and many more. If you are rich and or have the power, YOU are god. So It also reflects to the "lower class".

Putin doesnt care, he drinks his high quality drinks, while his citizens drink shampoo for the alcohol, kim doesnt care, trump doesnt care or 

any other one in the top of any country, they feel really good with all THEY have. Including all those sub people in power places. We are rich and have the power, anyone else, just die. 

Ofcourse the common people will suffer in Iraq with sanctions, but leaders dont care due to powerplay. Not only there, you can see it happening for ages every where. We call it civilisation.

Luckily we didnt yet met aliens, we would have war in no time.

But also luckily we keep on working more more on control of all people, so finally we will come to a borg civilisation. 

We will assimilate you, resistance is futile. 

[Srikcir]

4 hours ago, Morch said:

What remains is to limit the proliferation so that further instances won't arise. That's one reason it makes sense to focus an effort on Iran - precisely because it doesn't have the capability yet.

While the opposition to the nuclear deal is sliding Iran back to its nuclear weapons development program, another nonnuclear country may be taking notice of North Korea's recent diplomatic successes with the US that places it on international par with the US all because of North Korea's nuclear weapon capability - Syria. President Assad according to unconfirmed reports plans to visit North Korea’s leader, Kim Jong-un.

North Korea has been shipping supplies to the Syrian government that could be used in the production of chemical weapons. https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/un-links-north-korea-to-syrias-chemical-weapons-programme

It wouldn't take too much of a leap of faith that Assad might pursue North Korean support for a nuclear weapon program that would place Syria as an equal with the US and Israel in terms of diplomacy:

“The DPRK government will as ever extend invariable support and encouragement to the righteous struggle of the Syrian government and people to smash the aggression moves of the U.S. imperialists and Zionists and defend the sovereignty, stability and territorial integrity of the country,” - Korean Central News Agency.

Note: A year after North Korea tested its first nuclear weapon, it was accused by the U.N. of helping to build a nuclear facility in the eastern Syrian province of Deir Ezzor that was destroyed Israel in 2007.

http://www.newsweek.com/are-north-korea-syria-working-together-against-us-822564