TM30 trouble in Khon Kaen

[rumak]

22 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Reporting requirements depend on which office you report to as the enforcement of the law varies from office to office.

 

Your statement isn’t really correct based on the law, because it is the owner, house-master or possessor of the property that should make a report when the foreigner returns to the same address. Reporting  is only down to the foreigner if they qualify as one of the entities responsible for reporting.

i knew i would get many responses such as this.   I have been doing it (as a house-master) in CM for 10 years.  Have you ever tried to tell the immigration officer what the law says ?  

I listen to what they tell me and follow.  

I agree with the first sentence of your response!  I should have made a point of saying that this is how CM enforces the law.  If you can speak Thai, go ask the hua nah who they want

to report when returning to same address . If you think landlords are going to run to immigration every time you leave and return, ask them to put that in the lease.  

AND for all following persons who want to take issue....... this will be my answer    

Edited June 6, 2018 by rumak

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, rumak said:

i knew i would get many responses such as this.   I have been doing it (as a house-master) in CM for 10 years.  Have you ever tried to tell the immigration officer what the law says ?  

I listen to what they tell me and follow.  

I agree with the first sentence of your response!  I should have made a point of saying that this is how CM enforces the law.  If you can speak Thai, go ask the hua nah who they want

to report when returning to same address . If you think landlords are going to run to immigration every time you leave and return, ask them to put that in the lease.  

AND for all following persons who want to take issue....... this will be my answer    

You haven’t been reporting as the ‘house-master’ for 10 years unless you are named as such in a Tabian Baan. And it’s strange that you’ve been reporting at all for that long as offices have only really been enforcing this (TM.30) reporting for a few of years.

 

I’ve had many conversations with immigration officers about the law over 22 years, in Thai.

 

Asking you the foreigner to report to immigration, unless you’re the owner or house-master or possessor, is not required by law. If you agree with my first sentence of my last post you’ll understand that offices decide their own reporting requirements, and are making them up around the actual law.

 

The law was never designed with the intention of foreigners reporting themselves. It is meant as third party confirmation of the foreigners arrival.

 

You made a general statement and I was simply correcting it for the benefit of people reporting to other offices.

Edited June 6, 2018 by elviajero

[parryhandy]

4 hours ago, rumak said:

i knew i would get many responses such as this.   I have been doing it (as a house-master) in CM for 10 years.  Have you ever tried to tell the immigration officer what the law says ?  

I listen to what they tell me and follow.  

I agree with the first sentence of your response!  I should have made a point of saying that this is how CM enforces the law.  If you can speak Thai, go ask the hua nah who they want

to report when returning to same address . If you think landlords are going to run to immigration every time you leave and return, ask them to put that in the lease.  

AND for all following persons who want to take issue....... this will be my answer    

This is the only way I could envisage the law actually working though I've never done it myself.If I as a renter decided to have a foreign holiday why would I tell my landlord and how will they know?They (the landlord/house master) could get fined for something they have no control over. I am surprised landlords generally (to cover themselves) don't put something in foreigners lease agreements stipulating you must inform immigration, on their behalf, if leaving the country then returning, on penalty of fine payment for failure to do so.What Rumak has written is the only way it seems workable for all parties.

As a landlord if immigration asked me to pay a fine for not reporting a foreigners international travel , my answer would be "how would I know someone's plans and is that person obliged to tell me ?" 

Edited June 6, 2018 by parryhandy

[stevenl]

7 hours ago, stud858 said:

I'm really surprised they let you walk out of there without paying. Well done.

Get yourself an International Drivers permit if you have your own country's licence.

That way you don't need to visit them for anything.

 

If living here a Thai DL is legally required.

[surfdog]

this topic has already been discussed and clarified on Thaivisa, beause I referenced some threads when I was wondering <deleted> immigration was doing when they also fined me a large fine 2 years ago.  I forget what number they came up, but when they did they acted like they were doing me a huge favor, perhaps it was 800+800 or 2000+2000, what is important is that they fine both the housemaster and foreigner according to law.  You can pay it all at once though ?

 

If people are denying they never did this and this is the most ridiculous corruption thing they ever heard of they are likely in Bangkok or another province that isn't enforcing this.  It well known many provinces are fundraising with this law, and have been for about 2-3 years now.

 

If you fly in on a Friday night, then you don't need to report until Monday. 

 

Also, TM30 also applies if you even go to another province, but technically they would only know if you check into a hotel with your passport.  The hotel would then file a TM30, if you don't have a matching return TM30 on they way back.. Bingo!  fine.

 

Plenty hotels don't check passport, or will accept Thai id, so not so bad about this yet.

 

  

[surfdog]

current documents needed

copy of passport page, departure card, and current visa

copy of tabien baan, front page (housemaster) and the person reporting, sometimes not the same - signed

copy of housemaster id - signed

tm30- main form is filled out by housemaster, attached sheet is for your information and any other foreigners at the house

 

you can do this alone, I do.

 

usually done in 5 minutes if visa agents aren't in the office taking up all their time, seems they get to jump the queue.

[rumak]

4 hours ago, elviajero said:

The law was never designed with the intention of foreigners reporting themselves. It is meant as third party confirmation of the foreigners arrival.

READ my post.  The FIRST report of a new arrival ( i am referring mainly to renters of houses or condos) is required to be done by the housemaster.  I also have said that my info is from CM. And here we have been doing it for many many years .   

My main point other than that is that CM wants the foreigner to come in to UPDATE when leaving and then returning to same address.  I also said i don't know why i am bothering to post as responses such as yours will keep on coming.     There will also be tons of people complaining about having to do this.  I also don't like doing it.   

Just advising all to ASK at their local office..... UPDATE  UPDATE  UPDATE   !   when returning to same address

[rumak]

3 hours ago, parryhandy said:

This is the only way I could envisage the law actually working though I've never done it myself.If I as a renter decided to have a foreign holiday why would I tell my landlord and how will they know?They (the landlord/house master) could get fined for something they have no control over. I am surprised landlords generally (to cover themselves) don't put something in foreigners lease agreements stipulating you must inform immigration, on their behalf, if leaving the country then returning, on penalty of fine payment for failure to do so.What Rumak has written is the only way it seems workable for all parties.

As a landlord if immigration asked me to pay a fine for not reporting a foreigners international travel , my answer would be "how would I know someone's plans and is that person obliged to tell me ?" 

FIRST sensible post I ever read concerning this.  And there are hundreds  on the various tm30 threads here on TVisa.    I guarantee you,  landlord will not pay the fine !     If they don't report you initially they should (and i would)......but after that   as thais say    its up to you  ?

[rumak]

5 hours ago, elviajero said:

You haven’t been reporting as the ‘house-master’ for 10 years unless you are named as such in a Tabian Baan. And it’s strange that you’ve been reporting at all for that long as offices have only really been enforcing this (TM.30) reporting for a few of years.

more false information.   please stop just trying to be right.   

all one needs is a POA ........and probably would not even be asked for one if related to the owner.

AND.... much more than a few years here in CM.    Any tv readers should have been familiar with the tm30 story by now

[PoorSucker]

Here on Samui they don't want your TM30 form. 

They want you to do it online, perfect for me. 

[impulse]

This topic reminds me of a thread last week about the legality of short term condo rental on AirBNB. 

 

I didn't see any discussion about TM30's in the back and forth between those who claim that it's 100% illegal, and those who claim that individuals with less than 4 units are exempt from hotel laws (not trying to rekindle that argument- trying to stay on TM30's). 

 

Seems like filing a TM30 would open the landlord up to tax obligations and hotel law scrutiny, and not filing one would open the landlord and renter up to issues mentioned in the OP.  But I've never seen any anecdotes.   I'm wondering if anyone (owner or renter) has been bit when they didn't have a TM30 on file for an AirBNB rental?

 

[Tanoshi]

5 hours ago, parryhandy said:

This is the only way I could envisage the law actually working though I've never done it myself.If I as a renter decided to have a foreign holiday why would I tell my landlord and how will they know?They (the landlord/house master) could get fined for something they have no control over. I am surprised landlords generally (to cover themselves) don't put something in foreigners lease agreements stipulating you must inform immigration, on their behalf, if leaving the country then returning, on penalty of fine payment for failure to do so.What Rumak has written is the only way it seems workable for all parties.

As a landlord if immigration asked me to pay a fine for not reporting a foreigners international travel , my answer would be "how would I know someone's plans and is that person obliged to tell me ?" 

 

1 hour ago, rumak said:

FIRST sensible post I ever read concerning this.  And there are hundreds  on the various tm30 threads here on TVisa.    I guarantee you,  landlord will not pay the fine !     If they don't report you initially they should (and i would)......but after that   as thais say    its up to you  ?

Your assumption is based on the fact that every Thai privately renting is aware of the Immigration law concerning reporting procedures for foreigners.

Would you be aware of any such laws concerning foreigners in your home Country.

 

Foreign Condo owners don't have a landlord.

Foreigners who privately own a house, don't have a landlord.

 

The law and who is responsible to file a TM30 is extensively worded to cover all foreigners living circumstances and conditions.

You can be sure if your landlord failed to report your presence, you the foreigner will be fined for failing to report as 'the possessor' of any rented property.

 

Edited June 7, 2018 by Tanoshi

[khwaibah]

14 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Is it even possible to get a DL on a tourist visa?

I did in Chiang Mai.

 

[rumak]

5 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

 

Your assumption is based on the fact that every Thai privately renting is aware of the Immigration law concerning reporting procedures for foreigners.

Would you be aware of any such laws concerning foreigners in your home Country.

 

Foreign Condo owners don't have a landlord.

Foreigners who privately own a house, don't have a landlord.

 

The law and who is responsible to file a TM30 is extensively worded to cover all foreigners living circumstances and conditions.

You can be sure if your landlord failed to report your presence, you the foreigner will be fined for failing to report as 'the possessor' of any rented property.

 

I am not assuming.   I have done over 20 tm30 filings involving tenants.  If you read my posts you will see that i refer to houses and condos for rent.   I also KNOW the rules for foreigners that own a condo or live in their (wife's) house.   

You can quote all you like.......nothing like experience, sir

My advice to you.....is to stop giving advice

[rumak]

and to the next ten posters that want to tell me i'm wrong........ no more responses. 

it is really quite simple.....but you can make it complicated if you try

[sandrabbit]

11 hours ago, rumak said:

Don't know why i am bothering to post this as many, many on here are going to disagree.  BUT,  if you do not believe me you will find out :     As it stands now , when a tenant or person staying at an address leaves the

country...then returns to the SAME address,  he/she is required to report to immig. (notify their return) and

immig. will make note of your new arrival/dept card number and Update your tm30.   The law says 24 hours but its up to local immig office (usually a few days leeway is ok).

The many many i refer to are going to say this is landlords responsibility.  (yes, first notification definitely is)

but subsequent comings and goings (from same address) are not.    do it yourself, easy.  don't report and you will see.  BTW:  Really not necessary to update if just going somewhere in country.  But if you ask immig,.........  they may say yes....or may say no

 

I left the country for a week last year and on returning I had my wife call Rayong immigration and they said that reporting again via TM30 wasn't required. 

[stud858]

2 hours ago, stevenl said:

If living here a Thai DL is legally required.

If living here on an immigrant visa then a Thai licence is legally required.  Non immigrant is ok for the year validity. You can check at your local police station or view the legal Act document online 

[rumak]

1 hour ago, sandrabbit said:

I left the country for a week last year and on returning I had my wife call Rayong immigration and they said that reporting again via TM30 wasn't required. 

just a reminder to others:    that was Rayong immigration office.

 

good you called to ask,  SR

[sandrabbit]

4 minutes ago, rumak said:

just a reminder to others:    that was Rayong immigration office.

 

good you called to ask,  SR

There is another post running on this and it has the same amount of inconsistency as this one.

 https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1041676-tm30-explained-for-landlords-and-tenants/?page=3&amp;tab=comments#comment-13054070

 

[ubonjoe]

Some baiting and bickering posts have been removed. Time to end it.

[NanLaew]

20 hours ago, paulsingle said:

We got pulled into the office (which was lovely and cool) and an Immigration man was getting quite uptight with my wife who didn't understand and was questioning why we were being asked to pay.

Aha! The air-conditioned "TM-30 Room." Looks like KK IO has taken some advice from their comrades at the Jomtien IO.

 

Better late than never I guess.

[paulsingle]

Update:

Mother-in-law and wife went back today, apolgised for not having known about this law, paid 1,600 baht and got me registered at the home address.

Same staff but angry man kept his head down and said nothing.

Not sure if someone very senior made a phone call on our behalf but all sorted now. Currently sitting in the พ.ร.บ. with all documents required. Waiting for staff to come back from lunch. Hoping for Thai driver's licences today. 

Edited June 7, 2018 by paulsingle
Typo

[stud858]

3 hours ago, paulsingle said:

Update:

Mother-in-law and wife went back today, apolgised for not having known about this law, paid 1,600 baht and got me registered at the home address.

Same staff but angry man kept his head down and said nothing.

Not sure if someone very senior made a phone call on our behalf but all sorted now. Currently sitting in the พ.ร.บ. with all documents required. Waiting for staff to come back from lunch. Hoping for Thai driver's licences today. 

Keep us updated on how getting Licence went.

Cheers. 

[paulsingle]

20 hours ago, stud858 said:

Keep us updated on how getting Licence went.

Cheers. 

Got 2 licences today. 1 for motorbike and 1 for car. Valid for 2 years after which some minor formalities will secure 5 year licences and after that more minor formalities to secure indefinite licences.

I believe this is the standard route for Thai nationals as well. It is for my Thai wife anyway.

[stud858]

19 minutes ago, paulsingle said:

Got 2 licences today. 1 for motorbike and 1 for car. Valid for 2 years after which some minor formalities will secure 5 year licences and after that more minor formalities to secure indefinite licences.

I believe this is the standard route for Thai nationals as well. It is for my Thai wife anyway.

Did it take only the one visit? 

And I thought they stopped the lifetime for Thais, while allowing those that already have it to stay on it. 

[paulsingle]

2 hours ago, stud858 said:

Did it take only the one visit? 

And I thought they stopped the lifetime for Thais, while allowing those that already have it to stay on it. 

Only one visit. The classroom presentation, tests, medical and Immigration documents are all good for both licences. Car was 205 baht and motorbike 105 baht.

My wife now has a 5 year licence and her understanding is that the next one will be indefinite. 

Just remember to make sure your TM30 is good before you go to ask for certificate of residency from immigration. 

[stevenl]

2 hours ago, paulsingle said:

Got 2 licences today. 1 for motorbike and 1 for car. Valid for 2 years after which some minor formalities will secure 5 year licences and after that more minor formalities to secure indefinite licences.

I believe this is the standard route for Thai nationals as well. It is for my Thai wife anyway.

A indefinite license doesn't exist anymore for new ones.

For renewal from 2 to 5 reaction, colour tests etc. will have to be done, and a video will have to be watched.

[stud858]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

A indefinite license doesn't exist anymore for new ones.

For renewal from 2 to 5 reaction, colour tests etc. will have to be done, and a video will have to be watched.

Seems different offices doing completely different things.  

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, stud858 said:

Seems different offices doing completely different things.  

As you'll find out, no.

 

You will not get an indefinite license. Certain tests will be required.

[stud858]

11 minutes ago, stevenl said:

As you'll find out, no.

 

You will not get an indefinite license. Certain tests will be required

Sure. But regarding costs, days to do, etc etc. I've experienced different to the OP. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a lifetime licence.  Not likely, but not impossible. Good luck if he can somehow swing it. I'd pay a few thousand tip for it.  But for now I'm happy with IDP. I wonder if police ever check out or even have the ability to check the validity of licences.  Probably a few fakes around.