TM30 trouble in Khon Kaen

[paulsingle]

I am here on a tourist visa. I've had 5 in the last 3 years and spent several months on a number of occasions in the UK in between. As far as I know there is nothing remotely questionable about my record of visits to Thailand. 

Currently I'm on a 2nd back to back tourist visa and staying at my wife's parents home officially. I gave this address for my last 2 entry visas and for my extension.

Today I was well on my way to getting a Thai  driver's licence until a visit to Khon Kaen Immigration. 

They correctly pulled me up for not being registered at the in-laws place via a TM30.

We got pulled into the office (which was lovely and cool) and an Immigration man was getting quite uptight with my wife who didn't understand and was questioning why we were being asked to pay.

He wanted me to pay 1,600 for my current unregistered stay and a further 4,000 for previous offences.

He intimidated us by going through my passport and going on about other previous 'offences'.

We didn't pay any money and I avoided being locked up. 

It was only after we got home and I did some reading up that I realised this is about TM30.

I gather there's a bit of a drive to enforce TM30 rules that have been largely ignored for years. 

Anyway, mother-in-law is going to go and own up and pay (my cash) the fine as house owner and fill out a TM30.

Then I'm going to see if they will kindly provide what I need for my driving licence. 

[mekko]

I thought the maximum was 2,000baht regardless of number of times failed to do TM30 when arriving back in country? How did you get away without paying any of the penalty? 

Edited June 6, 2018 by mekko

[Rc2702]

Sounds harsh but it is similar to what I went through. 2000 baht fine from KK for failing to report on time. 

 

Was there doing tm30 today also but no fine this time.

 

Seems they are changing the open plan office and working outside whilst refit is in progress by looks of it.

 

 

 

 

[worgeordie]

37 minutes ago, mekko said:

I thought the maximum was 2,000baht regardless of number of times failed to do TM30 when arriving back in country? How did you get away without paying any of the penalty? 

Its the owner of the house where he is staying ,that has to pay the fine,

in this case with his money.

regards worgeordie

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, mekko said:

I thought the maximum was 2,000baht regardless of number of times failed to do TM30 when arriving back in country? How did you get away without paying any of the penalty? 

That is the maximum fine, per offence. They legally could retrospectively fine for several missed reports, but I’ve never heard of them doing it.

[paulsingle]

From what I've now read, the onus is on the house owner and the house owner can be fined 1,600 baht for failing to report within 24 hours that they have "an alien" staying in their house.

We've had some advice from senior police contacts that we shouldn't have to pay anything over the 1,600 baht but if the staff are insistent on some extra money then it shouldn't be more than a further 1,900 baht.

We'll see how things develop tomorrow. 

Wife and her mum are going to go up there without me and come and fetch me if I really have to be there.

[Orton Rd]

Just got done for this today at Samut Prakan, had no idea they had started this nonsense as well, I was there for yearly extension.Told fine was 2000 baht and he did fine us , well the house owner the mrs. What I don't understand is who is responsible for the reporting, 90 report slip says the foreigner has to report within 24 hours of entering the country, but it's the house owner that gets fined.

Officer told us you can report online, anyone done this? as don't fancy rushing off to immigration the day after a long haul flight every time. 

Why are they doing this now? it's an old law I believe. In my case they have 12 years extension forms, multiple re entry applications, 90 day reports etc all with the same address on, not to mention on the arrival card the day before they now want you to go and report it again, madness.

Mrs gave the officer a right earful, luckily he was good natured and probably thinks it's waste of time as well.

Looking at some paper slip he gave us it does say the fine is 1600, but he did start out at 2k.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Orton Rd

[Rc2702]

11 minutes ago, paulsingle said:

From what I've now read, the onus is on the house owner and the house owner can be fined 1,600 baht for failing to report within 24 hours that they have "an alien" staying in their house.

We've had some advice from senior police contacts that we shouldn't have to pay anything over the 1,600 baht but if the staff are insistent on some extra money then it shouldn't be more than a further 1,900 baht.

We'll see how things develop tomorrow. 

Wife and her mum are going to go up there without me and come and fetch me if I really have to be there.

Make sure they have all the paperwork and a copy of your passport and the original on hand. Good luck.

[Sheryl]

Is it even possible to get a DL on a tourist visa?

[Orton Rd]

House owner should have house book and ID of course, they wanted that but did not pursue it when told we had not brought the book, they have it all on record anyway from years back.

[mekko]

1 hour ago, worgeordie said:

Its the owner of the house where he is staying ,that has to pay the fine,

in this case with his money.

regards worgeordie

Why would Somchai care?  He will just ignore the fine, if he's ever even reached with it other than hearing from his tenant, unless of course tenant uses moving out as leverage. I think multi-unit owner and justrictic managed condos in bkk are probably a bit wiser to the rules and more leary about immigration for sake all their tenants.  

 

Reality is 90% of time mugging's farang pays the fine and registers the owners details and owner is none the wiser, and immigration are all too happy,  hence why many  (or maybe just me) care about the penalty. 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2018 by mekko

[transam]

5 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Is it even possible to get a DL on a tourist visa?

Yes..

Mrs.Trans got fined once, it was 800bht, plus I even had a yellow house book....

[moontang]

Those, who complain are faced with the multiplier, as well as guest house owners.  1600?  Pay it and be done....been going on for two years, now.  Yet, there are still some old timers, who tell me I am crazy and they have never done it, so  they must know, and I am simply making up relevant immigration procedure information to boost my ego.  Most of them will find out, when they go for an extension, resulting in several hours wasted, above the several already wasted.

[worgeordie]

8 minutes ago, mekko said:

Why would Somchai care?  He will just ignore the fine, if he's ever even reached with it other than hearing from his tenant, unless of course tenant uses moving out as leverage. I think multi-unit owner and justrictic managed condos in bkk are probably a bit wiser to the rules and more leary about immigration for sake all their tenants.  

 

Reality is 90% of time mugging's farang pays the fine and registers the owners details and owner is none the wiser, and immigration are all too happy,  hence why many  (or maybe just me) care about the penalty. 

 

 

If you read the  original  post,you would see its his mother-in -law that owns

the house,he will give her the money to go and pay the fine,so he has

everything in order,to hopeful get a Thai drivers license ,but you are

correct Immigration dont care who they fine ,tenant or owner as long

as the get the money.

regards worgeordie

[paulsingle]

17 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Is it even possible to get a DL on a tourist visa?

According to the Port Lor Bor in Khon Kaen it is. We filled out paperwork with them and had done the medical. I believe if we'd got the paperwork from Immigration I would then have had to some test involving red, amber and green lights and a foot pedal. Then sit through a classroom presentation and job done.

I'll see if I can get it done tomorrow.   

[Orton Rd]

Don't forget to sleep through the video or play with your phone, seems to be the norm!

[overherebc]

49 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Is it even possible to get a DL on a tourist visa?

Depending on where yes, but only 2 year temporary. Not 5 year.

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, paulsingle said:

From what I've now read, the onus is on the house owner and the house owner can be fined 1,600 baht for failing to report within 24 hours that they have "an alien" staying in their house.

We've had some advice from senior police contacts that we shouldn't have to pay anything over the 1,600 baht but if the staff are insistent on some extra money then it shouldn't be more than a further 1,900 baht.

We'll see how things develop tomorrow. 

Wife and her mum are going to go up there without me and come and fetch me if I really have to be there.

The ‘typical’ fine is 1,600 baht.

 

The house owner is always responsible to report. The house-master (if not the owner), or anyone in possession of the property that’s not the owner, or house-master is also on the hook. Some foreigners, renting a property, have been fined for not reporting themselves if considered the possessor. In your case it sounds like your mother in law is the only person responsible for reporting.

Edited June 6, 2018 by elviajero

[elviajero]

3 hours ago, paulsingle said:

Currently I'm on a 2nd back to back tourist visa and staying at my wife's parents home officially. I gave this address for my last 2 entry visas and for my extension.

Why don’t you enter with a non immigrant ‘O’ visa. Single or multiple entry visas are easy to get from the UK. It wouldn’t solve the TM.30 problem, but it would make life easier.

[Orton Rd]

I seem to remember the officer saying you have a week after re entry before a fine is applied, even though reporting is meant to be within 24 hours

[anchadian]

If say you are on a retirement extension and residing at your girlfriend's townhouse, how does she know that she has to submit a TM30 to immigration?

 

Furthermore, again let's say, you are on your initial retirement extension and you will not need to report your address every 90 days as you will not be in the Kingdom for that length of time.  

 

If it's the owners' responsibility, he or she most probably don't even know what a TM30 is.

Edited June 6, 2018 by anchadian

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, paulsingle said:

From what I've now read, the onus is on the house owner and the house owner can be fined 1,600 baht for failing to report within 24 hours that they have "an alien" staying in their house.

Not sure what you've read, or been told, but the actual law on this states;

 

Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager
where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the
competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or
hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned. If there is no Immigration Office
located in that area , the local police official for that area must be notified.

 

Section 4 : “ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of
owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.

 

Section 77 : Whoever fails to comply with the provision of Section 38, shall be punished with a fine not
exceeding 2,000 Baht. If said person is a hotel manager, he shall be punished with a fine from 2,000 Baht
to 10,000 Baht.

 

Immigration Act B.E. 2522 (1979) en - immigration.pdf

 

[Tanoshi]

3 hours ago, paulsingle said:

He wanted me to pay 1,600 for my current unregistered stay and a further 4,000 for previous offences.

You didn't file a TM30 on your first entry and subsequent stay at the MIL's...........1 offence.

You left the Country to obtain another TV, then re-entered a second time...........2 offences.

1,600 + 1,600 = 3,200.

 

Not sure where they get the 4,000 baht for previous offences from, but tell them on previous entries to this current one you didn't stay in KK.

Bangkok don't enforce the TM30 reporting, so that's as good a place as any to have stayed previously.

 

The document your requesting for your DL from Immigration is called a 'Certificate of Residence'.

[paulsingle]

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

Why don’t you enter with a non immigrant ‘O’ visa. Single or multiple entry visas are easy to get from the UK. It wouldn’t solve the TM.30 problem, but it would make life easier.

Thanks for this suggestion. I may well do that for my next trip.

[Tanoshi]

1 minute ago, paulsingle said:

Thanks for this suggestion. I may well do that for my next trip.

You can also extend each 90 day permission to stay by another 60 days at your local Immigration  office. 1,900 baht.

[rumak]

29 minutes ago, paulsingle said:

Thanks for this suggestion. I may well do that for my next trip.

Don't know why i am bothering to post this as many, many on here are going to disagree.  BUT,  if you do not believe me you will find out :     As it stands now , when a tenant or person staying at an address leaves the

country...then returns to the SAME address,  he/she is required to report to immig. (notify their return) and

immig. will make note of your new arrival/dept card number and Update your tm30.   The law says 24 hours but its up to local immig office (usually a few days leeway is ok).

The many many i refer to are going to say this is landlords responsibility.  (yes, first notification definitely is)

but subsequent comings and goings (from same address) are not.    do it yourself, easy.  don't report and you will see.  BTW:  Really not necessary to update if just going somewhere in country.  But if you ask immig,.........  they may say yes....or may say no

 

[stevenl]

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Is it even possible to get a DL on a tourist visa?

Yes, can even be done visa exempt.

[rumak]

51 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Yes, can even be done visa exempt.

i think Sheryl asks because here in CM they generally want at least a non-o visa OR a work permit.

along with other stuff (proof of residence, etc)

 

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, rumak said:

Don't know why i am bothering to post this as many, many on here are going to disagree.  BUT,  if you do not believe me you will find out :     As it stands now , when a tenant or person staying at an address leaves the

country...then returns to the SAME address,  he/she is required to report to immig.

Reporting requirements depend on which office you report to as the enforcement of the law varies from office to office.

 

Your statement isn’t really correct based on the law, because it is the owner, house-master or possessor of the property that should make a report when the foreigner returns to the same address. Reporting  is only down to the foreigner if they qualify as one of the entities responsible for reporting.

[stud858]

I'm really surprised they let you walk out of there without paying. Well done.

Get yourself an International Drivers permit if you have your own country's licence.

That way you don't need to visit them for anything.