Trump attacks EU and Canada on trade amid backlash ahead of G7 summit

[webfact]

Trump attacks EU and Canada on trade amid backlash ahead of G7 summit

By David Ljunggren and Jean-Baptiste Vey

 

Canada's Prime Minister Justin Trudeau (R) meets with European Council President Donald Tusk (C) and European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker (L) prior to the G7 Summit in the Charlevoix town of La Malbaie, Quebec, Canada, June 7, 2018. REUTERS/Christinne Muschi

 

OTTAWA (Reuters) - Leaders of the Group of Seven rich nations headed for a summit in Canada on Thursday more divided than at any time in the group's 42-year history, as U.S. President Donald Trump's "America First" policies risk causing a global trade war and deep diplomatic schisms.

 

In a bid to rebuild America's industry, Trump has imposed hefty tariffs on steel and aluminium imports, including those from key G7 allies like Canada, Japan and the European Union.

 

Trump has threatened to use national security laws to do the same for car imports and has walked back on environmental agreements and an international deal to prevent Iran from building a nuclear bomb.

 

French President Emmanuel Macron, who has invested in a warm personal relationship with Trump, said the other G7 nations - Britain, Canada, Germany, Italy and Japan, as well as France - should remain "polite" and productive but warned that "no leader is forever," a sign that Europe would not surrender meekly to the U.S. president.

 

"Maybe the American president doesn't care about being isolated today, but we don't mind being six, if needs be," Macron told reporters. "Because these six represent values, represent an economic market, and more than anything, represent a real force at the international level today."

 

Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau predicted "robust discussions" on trade, but other G7 members like Japan and Italy seemed less likely to want to challenge the U.S. president.

 

Trump fired back soon after on Twitter, addressing both leaders directly, saying they were charging "massive tariffs" on U.S. goods and had erected other trade barriers.

 

"I look forward to seeing them tomorrow," Trump wrote about Friday's start of the two-day summit.

 

The G7 leaders will meet in a luxury cliff-top hotel in the town of La Malbaie, about two hours' drive from Quebec City. The site has been sealed off by police, making demonstrations impossible.

 

Several hundred protesters - some wearing red flags and red masks - walked noisily through the streets of Quebec City on Thursday evening, heading for the Congress Center where the media are based.

 

Some in the crowd, closely watched by riot police, carried banners with slogans such as "The G7 does not represent us." Others carried posters with defaced photos of Trump.

 

The U.S. president will come face-to-face at the gathering with world leaders whose views do not chime with his on a range of issues from trade to the environment as well as Iran and the construction of a new U.S. embassy in Jerusalem.

 

Trump signalled that he was in no mood to compromise as he met with Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, who has tried to cultivate a friendly relationship with the American president.

 

Trump raised the issue of U.S. car imports with Abe at their meeting in Washington and said he wanted more investment in plants in the American industrial heartland of Michigan, Pennsylvania and Ohio.

 

EX-BEST FRIENDS

Abe is not the only world leader to have tried charming Trump and failed to come away with concessions from the U.S. leader.

 

Macron, who appeared to have built a warm relationship, said the "G6" leaders would not spark a fight at the summit.

 

"In this environment, above all we always have to stay polite, stay productive and try to convince (them) to keep the United States on board because they are our historical ally and we need them," Macron told a news conference with Trudeau in Ottawa.

 

The U.S. president also has frosty relations with Trudeau, the summit host. Pleas by the other member countries for exemptions from the U.S. steel and aluminium tariffs, which went into effect on June 1, have fallen on deaf ears.

 

The Canadian leader is also embroiled in a row with Washington over negotiations to revamp the almost 25-year-old the North American Free Trade Agreement.

 

But Macron stressed that the United States was no longer the world's sole economic superpower and urged other industrialized countries to stick together.

 

His plea for unity may fail, even within the European Union. Germany has suggested making accommodations over trade with the United States for fear of triggering a ratcheting up of tensions over cars that would embroil companies like BMW and Mercedes.

 

Europe faces renewed domestic economic and political challenges in addition to those posed by Trump's unilateralism.

 

One source with knowledge of the matter said Italy wanted to "create as much space as possible to continue the dialogue with the U.S.," noting that new Italian Prime Minister Guiseppe Conte, a political novice, would be treading carefully in Canada because he “needs to see the dynamics of the group."

 

Japan is also expected to take a less confrontational approach, while quietly pressing its case on trade. British Prime Minister Theresa May urged the EU to stick to World Trade Organization rules and to ensure that any response to the tariffs was proportionate.

 

Despite the lobbying and pleas, Trump has pressed ahead with tariffs as well as pulling out of the Paris climate accord. Intense diplomacy from Europe to save an international nuclear agreement with Iran also failed.

 

Trump has also told China, the world's second largest economy, to cut its massive trade surplus with the United States. Washington has threatened tariffs on imports of Chinese goods unless Beijing stops stealing American companies' intellectual property.

 

Economically, Europe may have more to fear if Trump does go for auto tariffs.

 

Its recovery from the 2008-9 financial crisis has been far slower than that of the United States where the Federal Reserve is on the cusp of another interest rate rise while the European Central Bank is still using crisis-era measures.

 

Financial markets around the world were battered by Trump's trade threats. They have recovered somewhat, but are still vulnerable and Italy's new government is also a risk. Trump may have less to fear than slow-growing Europe and Japan from a trade war in terms of economic losses if the "G6" pushes back on tariffs.

 

(Reporting by David Ljunggren and Jean-Baptiste Vey in Ottawa; Additional reporting by Kevin Dougherty in Quebec City, William James in Canadian Forces Base Bagotville, Quebec, Roberta Rampton in Washington, Giselda Vagnoni in Rome and William Mallard in Tokyo; Writing by David Chance; Editing by Alistair Bell and Leslie Adler)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-06-08

 

[tomacht8]

The Bully Trump breaks international trade law and wants a trade war. He started it and will get it.

 

Globally, new US steel and aluminum quota imports total $ 48 billion. As a return coach, the major US trading partners (EU, Canada, Mexico, Turkey, Japan, Russia, India and China) have filed $ 38 billion in compensatory tariffs at the WTO. Because everyone makes their own choices, this is a colorful spectrum - from steel, aluminum, coal, to pork to nuts or cheese. Thus, US companies from many industries will feel losses.

 

The EU list contains countless steel products, which come to almost 900 million euros. Many of the items are intermediates and industrial goods, such as safety glass, flight data recorders, seats, rear view mirrors or special manganese batteries.

 

In consumer goods such as Bourbon Whiskey (Jack Daniel's) with an import value of last 417 million euros, cosmetics (Estee Lauder) worth 337 million euros, motorcycles (Harley-Davidson) by 166 million euros or grills (Weber) by 41 million.

 

There will be no winners in this trade war. Only losers. The bill will be paid by all consumers.

Edited June 8, 2018 by tomacht8

[blazes]

The G7 should just ignore this ineffable chump and invite, instead, Putin to join them once again.  Plus President Xi.  Why is China not invited when it is the 2nd most economically powerful country around?

 

Trump is a pathetic moron, afraid to engage in discussion with his peers in the G6 because he, being a moron, lacks the intellectual capacity to discuss complex issues.  

[tomacht8]

According to "Wirtschaftswoche", the sum of foreign companies' investments in the US fell massively in the first quarter of this year. At $ 83.6 billion, foreign direct investment was nearly 40 percent down on the year-ago quarter, the Journal reports in a preliminary ruling, citing preliminary figures from the US Department of Statistics.

 

If the numbers are confirmed, that would be catastrophic. According to Reuters news agency, of the 656,000 industrial jobs created between 2010 and 2014 in the US, two-thirds were spent on foreign direct investment.

 

Trump makes the US great again?

The opposite is probably more true.

 

[Emster23]

Trump may have been enrolled at Wharton School of Business, but his actions indicate he didn't learn a darn thing. We are talking Econ 102, basic level class.

[Jingthing]

I wish I could really say he's not my president, but sadly, he is. This is a hostage situation. Americans elected a destructive mentally bizarre buffoon that cares only about feeding his diseased ego. How this ends, nobody knows. 

[Jingthing]

Just now, Emster23 said:

Trump may have been enrolled at Wharton School of Business, but his actions indicate he didn't learn a darn thing. We are talking Econ 102, basic level class.

Wharton does have a good rep, but there is a back story to that at the time "trump" went there.

 

Quote

Trump’s professor thought he was his ‘dumbest student’ ever

 

https://www.studyinternational.com/news/trump-student-wharton/

[buick]

i would add mr juncker and mr tusk to the list of pathetic morons attending this meeting. 

 

an fyi, on bourbon.  jim beam is bourbon and jack daniels is considered tennessee whisky (not bourbon).  95% of bourbon is made in the state of kentucky.  maybe it is some kind of state rivalry, i'm not sure.  people say it tastes similar (i can't drink dark liquors). feel free to call jack daniels bourbon, not calling that an outlandish or offensive statement.  just providing some info.

 

https://thewhiskeywash.com/whiskey-styles/american-whiskey/jack-daniels-bourbon-definitive-answer/

 

 

Edited June 8, 2018 by buick

[Guest]

Trump is actively creating new iron curtain, which isolates USA from the rest of the world. If this continues, USA is becoming the new USSR.

[buick]

27 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Trump is actively creating new iron curtain, which isolates USA from the rest of the world. If this continues, USA is becoming the new USSR.

that might be overdoing it just a bit.  the USSR 'iron curtain' was a result of WWII and incredbile loss of life.  the 'curtain' that trump may create would not require anything like WWII and the lives lost.  in addition, trade would continue and any 'isolation' would be hard to detect.

Edited June 8, 2018 by buick

[Expatthailover]

Don the draft dodger is a coward and bully who sends others to do his bidding. 

Too feeble to attack anyone

[Expatthailover]

6 minutes ago, buick said:

that might be overdoing it just a bit.  the USSR was a result of WWII and incredbile loss of life.  the 'curtain' that trump may create would not require anything like WWII and the lives lost.  in addition, trade would continue and any 'isolation' would be hard to detect.

Ussr existed before ww2

[buick]

1 minute ago, Expatthailover said:

Ussr existed before ww2

thanks, i made an edit.

[ballpoint]

Trump's election as president has been a major awakening to myself and many other non-US citizens I've spoken to.  How one man can have so much power in a country that prides itself as being the leader of the democratic world has been a bit of a shock - from the very first days when he singlehandedly signed all those executive orders to now, where he unilaterally reneges on major world trade, climate and security deals.  Especially given that one man didn't even get the majority of votes. 

 

It's bad enough to allow one person to dictate internal and foreign policy with no apparent checks and balances when that person is a "good" man, but when that man is a bigoted, barbaric buffoon it really beggars belief.  How can any foreign leader trust the signature of the US on any major global policy document in future, knowing that all it takes is for one deranged, dictatorial dunderhead to come along and rip it up?  As his supporters appear to want the US to become more inward looking, the world should isolate this belligerent regime for the good of both sides, while making it clear to the majority of Americans who do not support Trump that this is nothing personal against the people, and they will be welcomed back into the global fold once the temporary madness at the top has been cured, as is done for any rabid regime. 

[buick]

1 hour ago, tomacht8 said:

According to "Wirtschaftswoche", the sum of foreign companies' investments in the US fell massively in the first quarter of this year. At $ 83.6 billion, foreign direct investment was nearly 40 percent down on the year-ago quarter, the Journal reports in a preliminary ruling, citing preliminary figures from the US Department of Statistics.

 

can you share a link ?

 

edit: part of the reason i ask is i'm not seeing data from 2018 on sites such as this:

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/foreign-direct-investment

Edited June 8, 2018 by buick

[Morch]

36 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Trump is actively creating new iron curtain, which isolates USA from the rest of the world. If this continues, USA is becoming the new USSR.

 

Other than in your mind, the US (even under Trump) bears very little resemblance to the USSR.

[Odysseus123]

Total plonker.

 

To think that manic depressive Americans voted for this guy in their millions..

 

..and they still can't keep their mouths shut.

[Morch]

7 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

Trump's election as president has been a major awakening to myself and many other non-US citizens I've spoken to.  How one man can have so much power in a country that prides itself as being the leader of the democratic world has been a bit of a shock - from the very first days when he singlehandedly signed all those executive orders to now, where he unilaterally reneges on major world trade, climate and security deals.  Especially given that one man didn't even get the majority of votes. 

 

It's bad enough to allow one person to dictate internal and foreign policy with no apparent checks and balances when that person is a "good" man, but when that man is a bigoted, barbaric buffoon it really beggars belief.  How can any foreign leader trust the signature of the US on any major global policy document in future, knowing that all it takes is for one deranged, dictatorial dunderhead to come along and rip it up?  As his supporters appear to want the US to become more inward looking, the world should isolate this belligerent regime for the good of both sides, while making it clear to the majority of Americans who do not support Trump that this is nothing personal against the people, and they will be welcomed back into the global fold once the temporary madness at the top has been cured, as is done for any rabid regime. 

 

Some may say that Trump's way of doing things is a reaction to the previous administration's overuse of the executive order path. I guess how one sees the POTUS using his authority relates to political position.

 

Not sure the issue here is just Trump, anyway. Breaks and balances - well, maybe that's the rub. The Republican Party not really acting as such (expecting restraint from Trump and most of his administration seems futile).

 

The funny bit is how people get their knickers in a twist. Trump will be out of office in a couple of years. The course will be corrected. IMO, resisting Trump's "policies" for a couple of years, without letting things getting out of hand, is probably a better option than some of the hyperbole suggestion posters air.

[Jingthing]

Total plonker.
 
To think that manic depressive Americans voted for this guy in their millions..
 
..and they still can't keep their mouths shut.

Yeah voting for him was bad enough but defending him now that everyone should know by now what a divisive destructive lying stinker he is is other level.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[buick]

here are a couple links to the bombardier deal that seemed to work out okay after a massive tariff was announced and then dodged by doing a deal with airbus.  there was a 'claim' made by the US, it was discussed with the relevant parties, and a deal was struck.

 

http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/16/news/companies/airbus-buys-majority-stake-bombardier-cseries/index.html

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-25/bombardier-c-series-set-to-become-just-another-airbus-after-deal

 

trump's way of doing things is unusual and offending at times, but that doesn't mean there aren't some trade issues that need to be resolved.  many see the word 'trump' and are then unable to continue on with a thought on the issue at hand.

Edited June 8, 2018 by buick

[dunroaming]

28 minutes ago, buick said:

i would add mr juncker and mr tusk to the list of pathetic morons attending this meeting. 

 

an fyi, on bourbon.  jim beam is bourbon and jack daniels is considered tennessee whisky (not bourbon).  95% of bourbon is made in the state of kentucky.  maybe it is some kind of state rivalry, i'm not sure.  people say it tastes similar (i can't drink dark liquors). feel free to call jack daniels bourbon, not calling that an outlandish statement.  just providing some info.

 

https://thewhiskeywash.com/whiskey-styles/american-whiskey/jack-daniels-bourbon-definitive-answer/

 

 

Why on earth would you bring Junker or Tusk into the thread at all?  Or do you want to list everyone with more of a brain than Trump?  That would be one hell of a list!

[dunroaming]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

The funny bit is how people get their knickers in a twist. Trump will be out of office in a couple of years. The course will be corrected. IMO, resisting Trump's "policies" for a couple of years, without letting things getting out of hand, is probably a better option than some of the hyperbole suggestion posters air.

I can see that argument.  And yes once Trump is gone and not replaced with another moron like Pence then things can be put back in place and the USA can start to build bridges and scrap all the pathetic things that Donald has done.

 

However if he continues on this destructive path, he could do an awful lot of damage in those two years.  As one who does get his knickers in a twist over Trump I would say that two more years of this Presidency is s depressing as it gets!

[Morch]

13 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Why on earth would you bring Junker or Tusk into the thread at all?  Or do you want to list everyone with more of a brain than Trump?  That would be one hell of a list!

 

May want to have another look at the pic in the OP.

[Morch]

14 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

I can see that argument.  And yes once Trump is gone and not replaced with another moron like Pence then things can be put back in place and the USA can start to build bridges and scrap all the pathetic things that Donald has done.

 

However if he continues on this destructive path, he could do an awful lot of damage in those two years.  As one who does get his knickers in a twist over Trump I would say that two more years of this Presidency is s depressing as it gets!

 

Trump's presidency qualities (or lack of) are what they are. And granted, two more years of this nonsense is bound to cause a whole lot of trouble and make things harder to mend. Expecting Trump to see the light is futile, and even if the various investigations efforts related to him and his administration will provide a cause, the time frame remains pretty much the same. So yeah, two more years of this is what's on.

 

Now, since relative to Trump, Europe (or the G6, whatever... pretty much anyone) is essentially the "adult in the room" (or the "designated driver" of the relations), it's up to Europe and the rest how to deal with this. They can either play Trump's game, which would make things worse, and might even serve to shore what political support he's got. Or, they could resist it without throwing the toys out of the pram, or getting involved in flame wars.

 

One would like to think that Europe's got a wee bit more character, and historical perspective to boot, enabling it to consider Trump's actions in a more reasoned manner. Then again, all these people are politicians, so trusting them to do the right thing is questionable.

 

As for all this nonsense about getting in bad with Russia, or setting up alternative global alliances etc. - yeah, right

Edited June 8, 2018 by Morch

[Odysseus123]

14 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Trump's presidency qualities (or lack of) are what they are. And granted, two more years of this nonsense is bound to cause a whole lot of trouble and make things harder to mend. Expecting Trump to see the light is futile, and even if the various investigations efforts related to him and his administration will provide a cause, the time frame remains pretty much the same. So yeah, two more years of this is what's on.

 

Now, since relative to Trump, Europe (or the G6, whatever... pretty much anyone) is essentially the "adult in the room" (or the "designated driver" of the relations), it's up to Europe and the rest how to deal with this. They can either play Trump's game, which would make things worse, and might even serve to shore what political support he's got. Or, they could resist it without throwing the toys out of the pram, or getting involved in flame wars.

 

One would like to think that Europe's got a wee bit more character, and historical perspective to boot, enabling it to consider Trump's actions in a more reasoned manner. Then again, all these people are politicians, so trusting them to do the right thing is questionable.

 

As for all this nonsense about getting in bad with Russia, or setting up alternative global alliances etc. - yeah, right

Good post.

 

However there are a few nations in Europe who are beginning to set up their own 'cordon sanitaire'-in the language of the old diplomacy...

 

How far that will go is anyone's guess.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Odysseus123

[spidermike007]

First he lies, by citing national security laws. A complete and utter fabrication of the facts, as usual for the liar in chief, and the world's top deflector. Fake news. Though he claims he invented the term fake news, in reality what he invented and continues to spout daily, is the creation of fake news.

 

Second he claims that Canada is a national security risk. What evidence does he cite for this? The "Canadian invasion" of 1812. Had he read a single book in his life, or simply asked a question of someone who has some knowledge, he might have been aware of the fact that Canada was not even a nation in 1812, and it was the British who invaded at that time, and burned down the White House. 

 

Where does one even begin, to ponder the mass of ignorance that is Donald Trump? Let us destroy decades and even a century or more, of long held, valuable relationships based on trust, and mutual dependency, with a few careless insults and no forethought. 

 

This summit may be a real awakening for dumbo. He is not accustomed to being in a roomful of intelligent leaders, who are skilled at diplomacy, are real negotiators, and dislike and disrespect him. 

 

Tiny D. - assuring that America is never great again. Practicing WWF style diplomacy, on a daily basis. The art of I cannot make a deal to save my life. Tiny D. - Making sure the truth is never considered, never thought about, never uttered, and never spoken. 

Edited June 8, 2018 by spidermike007

[Odysseus123]

2 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

First he lies, by citing national security laws. A complete and utter fabrication of the facts, as usual for the liar in chief, and the world's top deflector. Fake news. Though he claims he invented the term fake news, in reality what he invented and continues to spout daily, is the creation of fake news.

 

Second he claims that Canada is a national security risk. What evidence does he cite for this? The "Canadian invasion" of 1812. Had he read a single book in his life, or simply asked a question of someone who has some knowledge, he might have been aware of the fact that Canada was not even a nation in 1812, and it was the British who invaded at that time, and burned down the White House. 

 

Where does one even begin, to ponder the mass of ignorance that is Donald Trump? Let us destroy decades and even a century or more, of long held, valuable relationships based on trust, and mutual dependency, with a few careless insults and no forethought. 

 

This summit may be a real awakening for dumbo. He is not accustomed to being in a roomful of intelligent leaders, who are skilled at diplomacy, are real negotiators, and dislike and disrespect him. 

 

Tiny D. - assuring that America is never great again. Practicing WWF style diplomacy, on a daily basis. The art of I cannot make a deal to save my life. Tiny D. - Making sure the truth is never considered, never thought about, never uttered, and never spoken. 

Spidermike.

 

It may come as a complete surprise to you to know that Canada was War Plan enemy number one until discreetly removed from the list in 1940.

 

American Generals were contemplating the extensive use of poison gas.

 

Later on the usage of atomic weapons on (primarily Asians) was seen as a much more profitable activity.

 

That failed too after the French informed them in 1954 that it was their own troops under the bomb at Dien Bien Phu.

 

Those saucy American generals eh?

 

..chuckle..

 

 

[spidermike007]

35 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Spidermike.

 

It may come as a complete surprise to you to know that Canada was War Plan enemy number one until discreetly removed from the list in 1940.

 

American Generals were contemplating the extensive use of poison gas.

 

Later on the usage of atomic weapons on (primarily Asians) was seen as a much more profitable activity.

 

That failed too after the French informed them in 1954 that it was their own troops under the bomb at Dien Bien Phu.

 

Those saucy American generals eh?

 

..chuckle..

 

 

No. It does not surprise me at all. The defense industry, the Pentagon, and American foreign policy has been quite suspect, and guilty of countless transgressions for more decades than I can count. Some may argue that the last "righteous" war the US was engaged in, was WWII. Korea? Vietnam? Panama? Grenada? Iraq? Afghanistan? Libya? Egypt? Algeria? If not direct involvement, then certainly funding, influence, and support of the opposition parties. Alot of pretty bizarre ideas and motives. Alot of hubris. A staggering degree of ignorance of world history, and the unwillingness to study such, and learn from it. And the bizarre, inscrutable, incomprehensible, ignorant, dumb, tone deaf, non visionary policy (or lack thereof) continues to this day. Perhaps even more so, if that is possible. And I say all this as a Yank. One who sees my country with some degree of objectivity, hopefully. But nonetheless, I see my country as a relatively lost nation, without much in the way of bearing, long term vision and enlightenment. 

[Odysseus123]

15 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

No. It does not surprise me at all. The defense industry, the Pentagon, and American foreign policy has been quite suspect, and guilty of countless transgressions for more decades than I can count. Some may argue that the last "righteous" war the US was engaged in, was WWII. Korea? Vietnam? Panama? Grenada? Iraq? Afghanistan? Libya? Egypt? Algeria? If not direct involvement, then certainly funding, influence, and support of the opposition parties. Alot of pretty bizarre ideas and motives. Alot of hubris. A staggering degree of ignorance of world history, and the unwillingness to study such, and learn from it. And the bizarre, inscrutable, incomprehensible, ignorant, dumb, tone deaf, non visionary policy (or lack thereof) continues to this day. Perhaps even more so, if that is possible. And I say all this as a Yank. One who sees my country with some degree of objectivity, hopefully. But nonetheless, I see my country as a relatively lost nation, without much in the way of bearing, long term vision and enlightenment. 

Spidermike-yours is a very dense post, chock full of ideas that I would like to address tomorrow, if I may?

 

In the meantime-and reverting back to Canada for a moment-it was one great big land  grab which is why the American forces under Richard Montgomery and Benedict Arnold marched on Quebec in late 1775..

 

In 1812 Henry Clay and the 'Hawks" wanted Canada desperately and that is why they advocated for war (easy meat)

 

Whilst Great Britain may have been called "A nation of Shopkeepers" the Americans might justly be typified as a 

"Nation of Real Estate Agents"

by the British,Indians,Spanish and Mexicans.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Odysseus123

[buick]

1 hour ago, dunroaming said:

Why on earth would you bring Junker or Tusk into the thread at all?  Or do you want to list everyone with more of a brain than Trump?  That would be one hell of a list!

i can understand how you missed the picture as noted by another member.  w/o seeing that it would seem to be an  odd comment by me.  i have a general disdain for career politicians/bureaucrats, etc... and as long as we've got someone throwing out 'pathetic moron' in the thread, i figured i'd add to the list.