China suggests sanctions relief for North Korea after U.S. summit

[mtls2005]

 

Evidently not taking notes on the meeting isn't a big deal...

 

Trump on lack of notes from Kim meeting: 'I have one of the great memories of all time'

 

 

President Trump said Tuesday that he doesn’t need any transcript or notes from his summit meeting with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un because he has “one of the great memories of all time.”

 

When asked by a reporter if he had notes to verify details after the meeting in Singapore, Trump said he didn’t need to.

 

“I don't have to verify because I have one of the great memories of all time,” Trump said.

 

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/391769-trump-on-lack-of-notes-from-kim-meeting-i-have-one-of-the-great

[zig]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

And now Iran is warning NK not to believe Trump and the U.S., because of course, Trump wants to reneg on the international (including U.S.) agreement with Iran on its nuclear weapons program.

 

Well... Ukraine gave up the nuclear weapons back in 1994 and signed an agreement with security assurances with Russia, US and UK. We all know what happened later.

[Srikcir]

23 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

What did the so called master of the art of the deal get in return?

It was clear from summit discussions that South Korea's interests were not presented. Even if Trump cared not to require a sign of good faith from Kim (just vague promises), he could have looked to South Korea's interest as a minor concession from North Korea. Especially as Trump unilaterally gave up military training exercises with South Korea critical for South Korea's security.

• North and South Korea had been negotiating a joint statement to end the military conflict between the two countries that have technically been at war since the 1950-1953 Korean conflict ended with a truce — and not a peace treaty. Easiest enough to include a North Korea commitment in the Summit. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/17/north-and-south-korea-reportedly-set-to-announce-official-end-to-war.html
• Since the Korean Armistice Agreement in 1953, about 3,800 people have been abducted by North Korea (the vast majority in the late 1970s), 480 of whom are still being held. The Summit could have given a commitment for their quick release. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_abductions_of_South_Koreans

 

[Opl]

1 hour ago, mtls2005 said:

 

Evidently not taking notes on the meeting isn't a big deal...

 

Trump on lack of notes from Kim meeting: 'I have one of the great memories of all time'

 

 

President Trump said Tuesday that he doesn’t need any transcript or notes from his summit meeting with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un because he has “one of the great memories of all time.”

 

When asked by a reporter if he had notes to verify details after the meeting in Singapore, Trump said he didn’t need to.

 

“I don't have to verify because I have one of the great memories of all time,” Trump said.

 

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/391769-trump-on-lack-of-notes-from-kim-meeting-i-have-one-of-the-great

Great! So Trump can be interviewed by Mueller, despite what Giuliani said ("Trump shouldn't testify because "our recollection keeps changing")   

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Edited June 13, 2018 by Opl

[Rarebear]

4 minutes ago, Opl said:

Great! So Trump can be interviewed by Mueller, despite what Giuliani said ("Trump shouldn't testify because "our recollection keeps changing")   

•  

 

 

 

 

What does this have to do with the topic of this thread?

[Opl]

7 minutes ago, Rarebear said:

What does this have to do with the topic of this thread?

it has to do with Trump pretending " Trump on lack of notes from Kim meeting: 'I have one of the great memories of all time' " or the opposite when it suits him regarding national security matters and many many many others.. Believe him, he trusts Kim and Kim trusts him, what a joke,  By the way, did Kim have notes taken ?

Edited June 13, 2018 by Opl

[sanemax]

45 minutes ago, zig said:

Well... Ukraine gave up the nuclear weapons back in 1994 and signed an agreement with security assurances with Russia, US and UK. We all know what happened later.

Do stay on topic .

They were Russian nuclear weapons on Ukrainian soil which they had no operational control over

[Morch]

6 hours ago, sanemax said:

Kim has given up his quest for Nuclear weapons , vowed to stop testing rockets .

Sanctions were put in place to stop NK developing Nuclear Weapons .

Once that it has been established that NK are sincere , that they have indeed given up their quest to build nukes , there will no longer be any reason to keep the sanctions in place

 

No. Kim said he did (or signed a peace of paper saying he would).

For signing this peace of paper, and without him delivering anything, there are already calls for pulling back sanctions.

 

Once it has been established that NK (or rather, Kim) is sincere, your repeated attempts to crown this a success would have some merit. Until then, just talk.

[sanemax]

3 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

No. Kim said he did (or signed a peace of paper saying he would).

For signing this peace of paper, and without him delivering anything, there are already calls for pulling back sanctions.

 

Once it has been established that NK (or rather, Kim) is sincere, your repeated attempts to crown this a success would have some merit. Until then, just talk.

Its not just talk though , is it .

Agreements are in place , signed agreements .

Can we just give them a polite round of applause at the moment ?

The meeting was a success , that cannot be denied .

 

[observer90210]

All this is sweet-n'-spice-and-everythings-nice.....but just as an exemple, have the Russians changed all that much,  on how they behave with the world ?

 

[spidermike007]

55 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

It was clear from summit discussions that South Korea's interests were not presented. Even if Trump cared not to require a sign of good faith from Kim (just vague promises), he could have looked to South Korea's interest as a minor concession from North Korea. Especially as Trump unilaterally gave up military training exercises with South Korea critical for South Korea's security.

• North and South Korea had been negotiating a joint statement to end the military conflict between the two countries that have technically been at war since the 1950-1953 Korean conflict ended with a truce — and not a peace treaty. Easiest enough to include a North Korea commitment in the Summit. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/17/north-and-south-korea-reportedly-set-to-announce-official-end-to-war.html
• Since the Korean Armistice Agreement in 1953, about 3,800 people have been abducted by North Korea (the vast majority in the late 1970s), 480 of whom are still being held. The Summit could have given a commitment for their quick release. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_abductions_of_South_Koreans

 

What we are all wondering, is what he got in return. For someone who is a self proclaimed master negotiator, seems like he walked away from the table rather naked, and empty handed. Again I proclaim, Don you are a real pussy. 

[bristolboy]

4 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Its not just talk though , is it .

Agreements are in place , signed agreements .

Can we just give them a polite round of applause at the moment ?

The meeting was a success , that cannot be denied .

 

If you set a very low bar for success.  Otherwise it can be denied. It's way too soon to call it anything approaching a success. It wasn't a success and it wasn't a failure. It just was.

[stevenl]

17 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Its not just talk though , is it .

Agreements are in place , signed agreements .

Can we just give them a polite round of applause at the moment ?

The meeting was a success , that cannot be denied .

 

Agreed, it was a success for all involved.

 

Kim got what he wanted in exchange for vague promises, Trump gets what he wanted with increased prestige with his base, increased chance of re-election and who knows some money as well.

 

Not a success for SK or USA though.

Edited June 13, 2018 by stevenl

[impulse]

52 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Agreed, it was a success for all involved.

 

Kim got what he wanted in exchange for vague promises, Trump gets what he wanted with increased prestige with his base, increased chance of re-election and who knows some money as well.

 

Not a success for SK or USA though.

 

You're forgetting Ivanka's trademarks.

 

[stevenl]

5 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

You're forgetting Ivanka's trademarks.

 

Yes, that and at least one more deal for the Trump empire fall under 'some money as well'.

[Morch]

5 hours ago, sanemax said:

Its not just talk though , is it .

Agreements are in place , signed agreements .

Can we just give them a polite round of applause at the moment ?

The meeting was a success , that cannot be denied .

 

 

It is just talk. Signing a paper with some bullet points is not much of an "agreement". Considering a rather comprehensive agreement (yeah, that Iran Deal thing), with way higher resolution on details was denigrated by Trump and Trump supporters I find the above comment disingenuous, at best. Then there's this little matter of both signatories not being averse to going back on their word, or not keeping it. That you insist on ignoring this won't make it go away.

 

The meeting was not a "success". There, it can be denied. You haven't provided a single meaningful explanations as to what makes it a "success", at least not in a way which involves concrete or substantial issues.

 

You feel like applauding, go right ahead.

[Morch]

8 hours ago, sanemax said:

What would you prefer ?

• USA and North Korea threatening each other with Nuclear war OR USA and North Korea having peaceful discussions ?

 

 

That a misleading way of framing things as either/or. There's quite a range of options and scenarios in between. Some of them possibly involving holding talks which are less of a spectacle, but perhaps more substantive.

[lannarebirth]

7 hours ago, stevenl said:

Agreed, it was a success for all involved.

 

Kim got what he wanted in exchange for vague promises, Trump gets what he wanted with increased prestige with his base, increased chance of re-election and who knows some money as well.

 

Not a success for SK or USA though.

 

What exactly has the USA or SK lost that it possessed previously?

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed.

 

[stevenl]

5 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

 

What exactly has the USA or SK lost that it possessed previously?

Where did I claim they lost something?

Success means progress, their situation hasn't improved, so no success.

 

For NK and Trump though their situation has improved, so success.

Edited June 14, 2018 by stevenl

[Srikcir]

8 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

 

What exactly has the USA or SK lost that it possessed previously?

They lost China's and Russia's incentives to maintain the US ban on life sustaining imports into North Korea.

 

Trump upon returning back to the US has declared that North Korea is no longer a nuclear threat. He is already treating North Korea as being denuclearized even though not a single thing has materialized to even begin to support that declaration.

Is it no surprise then that China and Russia have resumed their pre-ban exports to North Korea?

 

If at some future date Trump understands that Kim will not agree to an American denuclearization, I doubt Trump/Haley can revive the UN export ban resolution that requires as a minimum unanimous support of the Permanent Security Council. That leaves Trump with virtually only one option to save his legacy (and that's his only concern) as a deal maker - unilateral American military force against North Korea to force nuclear disarmament.

[lannarebirth]

37 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

They lost China's and Russia's incentives to maintain the US ban on life sustaining imports into North Korea.

 

Trump upon returning back to the US has declared that North Korea is no longer a nuclear threat. He is already treating North Korea as being denuclearized even though not a single thing has materialized to even begin to support that declaration.

Is it no surprise then that China and Russia have resumed their pre-ban exports to North Korea?

 

If at some future date Trump understands that Kim will not agree to an American denuclearization, I doubt Trump/Haley can revive the UN export ban resolution that requires as a minimum unanimous support of the Permanent Security Council. That leaves Trump with virtually only one option to save his legacy (and that's his only concern) as a deal maker - unilateral American military force against North Korea to force nuclear disarmament.

 

You're leaving out possible sanctions on those who would break the sanctions. The sanctions remain in place.

[Roadman]

On 6/12/2018 at 10:25 PM, spidermike007 said:

Now, at the end of the summit, he has created another in a thousand lies. He says he has a great relationship with Kim! How do you develop a great relationship in one meeting? I mean this guy has no regard for facts, whatsoever. All we know, as of now is the following:

 

1. Trump said he would suspend the war games, with South Korea. The South Korean ministry said they have no idea where that came from, what it means, or the reason for it. China is wetting their pants in delight.

2. Trump said he would work towards bringing down the number of US troops stationed in the DMZ and in South Korea. China is again wetting their pants in delight.

3. He said he would work toward easing sanctions. Both Kim and China are wetting their pants in delight.

4. Trump said he would offer security guarantees to North Korea. Nice one for Kim. Terrible for South Korea. 

5. Trump said he would consider removing American nukes from Korea. Nice one for Kim. Terrible for the South Koreans. 

 

What did the so called master of the art of the deal get in return? A vague promise that we will work toward de-nuclearrization from North Korea. What else? There was no mentioning the previous US aim of "complete, verifiable and irreversible denuclearization." And Kim's commitments did not appear to go beyond what he already pledged to do in April when he met South Korean President Moon Jae-in along their countries' border.

 

Who got played here? Looks like Trump got played, just like he is getting played by the Saudis, the Israelis, the Canadians, and just about anyone else he engages with. This man is a horrific negotiator. He could not negotiate his way out of a paper bag. 

 

Tiny Don. The art of I cannot make a deal to save my life. 

Very unfair on Trump SpiderMike. Of course Trump got something. He got Kim’s autograph. 

[sanemax]

On 6/12/2018 at 5:25 PM, spidermike007 said:

what it means, or the reason for it. China is wetting their pants in delight.

2. Trump said he would work towards bringing down the number of US troops stationed in the DMZ and in South Korea. China is again wetting their pants in delight.

3. He said he would work toward easing sanctions. Both Kim and China are wetting their pants in delight.

 

With all these people "wetting themselves" , I do hope that any sanctions on adult diapers is lifted .

[billd766]

20 hours ago, sanemax said:

Its not just talk though , is it .

Agreements are in place , signed agreements .

Can we just give them a polite round of applause at the moment ?

The meeting was a success , that cannot be denied .

 

 

Signed agreements were in place with Iran also. Trump scrapped them.

 

If he scraps one he can scrap others.

 

I agree with the polite applause.

 

From what I have read the meeting was a great success for Kim who gained stuff but Trump gained nothing. How can that be called a success?

 

Kim did not commit to anything on or off paper.

[sanemax]

9 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Signed agreements were in place with Iran also. Trump scrapped them.

If he scraps one he can scrap others.

I agree with the polite applause.

From what I have read the meeting was a great success for Kim who gained stuff but Trump gained nothing. How can that be called a success?

Kim did not commit to anything on or off paper.

Trump didnt sign with the Iran agreement and he didnt sign them that is the big difference .

   Kim did commit to numerous things in the agreement .

Trump gained peace with NK , he solved the NK problem , not just for the USA , but for the whole region

[Morch]

13 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Trump didnt sign with the Iran agreement and he didnt sign them that is the big difference .

   Kim did commit to numerous things in the agreement .

Trump gained peace with NK , he solved the NK problem , not just for the USA , but for the whole region

 

Trump is not a permanent fixture. The US is. That Trump didn't sign the Iran Deal doesn't even begin to address the point. The Iran Deal is a way more comprehensive agreement than what Trump signed in the meeting with Kim.

 

Trump didn't "gain peace with NK" yet. That remains to be seen.

Trump didn't "solve the NK problem" yet. That too, remains to be seen.

 

 

Edited June 14, 2018 by Morch

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, Roadman said:

Very unfair on Trump SpiderMike. Of course Trump got something. He got Kim’s autograph. 

Unfair? Who are we talking about anyway? A crime lord. Let us never forget the crimes, for which he was not prosecuted, nor the billions he stole from small contractors and defrauded investors. Somehow, his background is getting whitewashed, in all of this recent adulation. Just a few actual facts.

 

Donald J. Trump, successful businessman, is a fantasy person, created by Trump himself.  The facts are that Trump is a failed “real estate developer” with a trail of failed enterprises in his wake.  Trump water, Trump steaks, Trump Air — all failed.  Trump University was not only a failure, it was a huge scam for which Trump was ordered to pay his victims $25 million.  The only success he had was a television “reality” show, playing on his made-up persona, in which he portrayed himself as a business tycoon who could spot success in “apprentices” while dispatching those without potential with the feared “You’re fired!”

 

Trump Tower is a garish building on Manhattan’s 5th Avenue containing luxury condominiums as well as office and retail space.  It also is an international crime scene.  In the 1990’s, Russian gangsters began to launder money by buying and selling apartments in Trump Tower.  One of these Russian — a Russian hit man — lived in Trump Tower.  Russians were arrested and convicted for running a gambling ring from Trump Tower. Trump World Tower, on the eastern side of Manhattan near the United Nations, was built between 1999 and 2001.  One-third of the luxury apartments were purchased by people and organizations from Russia.  One Russian who was investigated by the Treasury Department for money-laundering lived one floor below Kellyanne Conway, later the press spokeswoman for Trump’s campaign.

 

Seven hundred units of Trump properties in Southern Florida were purchased by shell companies, established to hide the identities of the buyers.  Some of these have been determined to be Russians and investigators suspect all buyers were Russians, using the properties to move vast sums of money out of Russia.  Two men who were associated with these shell companies were convicted of running a gambling and money laundering operation out of Trump Tower.

 

By the late 1990’s, Trump was bankrupt and considered by US and foreign banks to be not creditworthy and untrustworthy.   He owed almost four billion dollars to more than seventy banks; $800 million of this was loaned to him on his personal guarantee.  He never made any attempts to pay back any of this four billion dollars. After his 2004 bankruptcy, a group of US banks met with Trump and told him they would not lend him another penny, ever. After 2004, the only bank that would do business with Trump was Deutsche Bank, which despite its impressive name had a long history of shady activities.  Between 2011 and 2015, DB laundered about $10 billion for Russians.  Trump never paid back any of his debts to DB.

 

In 2004 Trump purchased an abandoned Palm Beach, FL, mansion for $41 million.  He never lived in it; never did anything to it.  In 2008 Trump Entertainment Resorts filed for bankruptcy.  Immediately after the filing, Russian Dmitry Rybolovlev purchased the property from Trump for $90 million — giving Trump a profit of $49 million, which was enough for him to pay off the loan used to buy the property.  Rybolovlev never showed any interest in the property, did nothing to it, never lived in it.  Later, during Trump’s Presidential run, Rybolovlev’s private 757 jet showed up at several locations where Trump was campaigning.

 

In 2006, Russians financed the construction of Trump Tower SoHo; Trump got 18% of the profits from the sale of condos in the building, although he put up no money himself.  Felix Sater, a Russian-American, managed the construction, financing and sales of the SoHo property.  Sater lived and worked two floors below Trump’s residence in Trump Tower. His business card identified him as a senior advisor to Trump.  Using a shell company named Bayrock Group, Sater used purchases of Trump properties to launder untold millions of dollars from Russians.

 

Beginning in 2007, Sater and Bayrock helped Trump complete at least four projects world-wide.  While some of these failed, Trump made money on all of them.

Russia is not a wealthy country.  Russian wealth is highly concentrated in a small circle of super-wealthy individuals, all closely tied to Vladimir Putin.  It is common practice for Russians to use money to make people indebted to them, then, name a price later.  It is important to note that Trump was the first president in decades to not release his tax returns, probably because they would reveal his total dependence on Russian money and largess.

 

Trump continued his dalliance with the Russians during his presidential campaign — in October 2015 he signed a letter of intent to built Trump Tower Moscow, with his name on it.  This deal never went through, likely because Putin killed it, not wanting to draw attention to Trump’s dependence on Russian money.

 

In the six months between Trump’s nomination and his election, 70% of his property sales were to shell companies in which the actual owners were hidden from view.

Trump’s presidential campaign was a re-run of “The Apprentice” with Trump using his fictional character with fictional wealth and fictional business success to sell his “Make America Great Again” fiction.  Trump the winner is a fiction that can cause the United States to lose.

Edited June 14, 2018 by spidermike007

[stevenl]

So a top meeting was held, resulting in Kim saying sanctions relief was promised, Pompeo, not present at the meeting, denying that.

 

Why is it not clear what was discussed? Because it was a private meeting with only the 2 leaders present and 2 translators. No aides, no tape, nothing.

 

But no problem, they both have a terrific memory, the best ever. This must be the summit of amateur hour.

[sanemax]

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

 

 

Donald J. Trump, successful businessman, is a fantasy person, created by Trump himself.  The facts are that Trump is a failed “real estate developer” with a.................

If you are going to copy and paste other peoples writing, you could at least give a kink to their webpage .

   That article was from the unbiased *Donald trump, failure, fraud crook deadbeat* website