Thais and English: Stop the rote learning, be brave to speak, get better jobs and be happy!

[hotchilli]

5 hours ago, NetJunkie said:

 

Have you tried stringing together a coherent sentence without all that "unnecessary grammar" ?

They can learn English in the same manner That they learnt their native Thai language... by listening & replying

as they did with their mothers/fathers/siblings etc from the age of 2 or less

all without the ability to read a single word from a book let alone understand grammar...

grammar comes naturally with speaking the technicalities of grammar can come later when they understand what's being said!!!
 

[malibukid]

agreed no curiosity

 

[Bantex]

My wife grew up in a border village in Thailand and as a child she learnt multiple languages but she really wanted to learn English. Her school taught a couple of basic English lessons each week, she took holiday jobs in local hotels/resorts and watched English speaking tv and films.

When I met her she was working in a hotel and was earning more than everyone else because she spoke several languages and was able to help the guests with everything from explaining menus, translation and making travel arrangements etc. She was making good money in tips alone. Even now she insists that I correct her grammar or pronunciation. We have two children who both speak English, amongst other languages, the three year old who can speak and understand three languages will only watch English speaking cartoons on Utube and learns new words and phrases from them. Our other child gets English lessons at school and has corrected the teacher a couple of times in her pronunciation.

Anyone can learn anything but only if the desire to learn is there, you can’t teach an unwilling pupil.

[anon537687643]

Nothing novel in what he says! Thai education system slow to catch on to anything


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[Lee4Life]

5 hours ago, NetJunkie said:

 

Have you tried stringing together a coherent sentence without all that "unnecessary grammar" ?

While you have a valid point, my wife and I have taught English to more than a few village kids and the high school aged kids always seem to want to start off with grammar when they don't even have a vocabulary or basic pronunciation down. So how can you learn grammar without a vocabulary? Or an understanding of basic English rules? Where does their idea that learning perfect grammar is the most important thing come from? Is it from their teachers, and/or quite possibly from their "loss of face" fears?

[Eligius]

2 hours ago, phantomfiddler said:

They also need to understand that it is not a crime to ask a question ! Most Thais that I know absolutely refuse to roll down the window and ask a local for directions when they are lost.

They seem to be of the mindset that by asking a question they are proving their ignorance, sad !

Yes, it's all to do with this idiotic fear of 'losing face'. My own partner, when we travel in a public bus around Thailand, instructs me not to ask questions about the different places we pass through in case the answer is unknown and thus 'loss of face' ensues.

 

Madness!

 

Edited June 15, 2018 by Eligius

[seancbk]

2 hours ago, Dustdevil said:

Chinese is way too complex and difficult to become the world's second language. For some, yes, but not the world. If you're a business exec do you have time to learn the 10,000 or more characters that would be required to read commercial documentation and financial news? And the four tones  needed for speech, besides?

 

My three nephews aged 13, 11 and 9 have been learning to read, write and speak Mandarin since they were all about 6 years old.   It's going to be a lot more use to them than the 4 years of French, 4 years of Latin, 2 years of Ancient Greek and 2 years of Spanish I was (mostly) forced to study.  

Chinese will almost certainly be as important as English in 20-30 years and maybe much sooner.    Chinese isn't even that difficult if you start as a young child.  

[Eligius]

1 hour ago, BobbyL said:

It is a very deep rooted problem and will take generations to begin to phase out. 

 

Even for educated Thais it is still an extremely common trait, and I think only once they experience life / studying somewhere else do they begin to see how restricted they are here. 

 

Me and my wife lived two years in England recently where she studied an MSc whilst I was teaching. One of the first things she couldn't believe was how lectures and seminars were conducted there. Students questioning theories, being openly critical of what a lecturer may have proposed, and being able to research and portray ideas differently from the norms. It took her a while to become comfortable with it. 

 

All those things don't happen in your average Thai education system, from 3 years old all the way up to 23 years old, it really is a style of the teacher is always right and you must not disrespect that. 

 

On a side note, I love it when a kid pulls me up on a spelling, or possibly answering a maths question wrong. We have a laugh about it and at least I know they are paying attention to what I am doing. 

Absolutely right.

Another thing that needs to change here is this appalling hierarchical obsession where pupils at a Thai school, or students at a Thai university, will kneel on the ground in front of the teacher out of 'deference'. It is terribly uncomfortable for us Westerners to be on the receiving end of this grovelling behaviour (I have complained about it to Thai colleagues - but nothing ever changes). It partly explains why the Thais allow the junta to treat them in the way they do: the junta are at the top of the hierarchy, and the Thais are the 'little people' down at the bottom of the pile - and so must worm and squirm on the ground out of 'respect'. 

[Lee4Life]

52 minutes ago, TKDfella said:

I use to go to a Thai vocational college to help students with conversation English, that is the idea was just chat with a native English speaker. I walked around the class and noticed many had books which transliterated English into Thai. Of course, this just doesn't work because Thai must have a vowel to follow a consonant, สเต๊ก = sa-dtek, for example and there is no 'th' 'v' sounds in Thai. I told them to put those books away and we used much of the time just working on the pronunciation of syllables. A few were interested but most weren't. Strangely enough, Korean's have a similar problem with Thai. Thai often puts the wrong vowel in the transliteration because the Thai rules for vowels don't allow the correct vowel, 'Kwon' in Korean speech is 'Kwan' in Thai.

Also why the Thai name "Blessing" is transliterated Porn...the "r" in the Thai Language is silent yet when they write the name in English they leave it in and by doing so make English speakers mispronounce it (unless they understand). There are many, many more examples along the same lines.

[brewsterbudgen]

 
In 20 years you've not met a Thai was went to school in the UK, Australia or the US?   You've never interacted with a Thai who works in a five star hotel?

What sort of life do you lead where in 20 years of living in Thailand you've not met a Thai who can speak English extremely well??



 

Many people commenting most likely have rather restricted experiences of Thais. As an IELTS instructor and examiner I come across many Thai students at both bachelor and masters degree level who are between bands 6.5 and 7.5 in Academic IELTS (some higher than that), on a daily basis.

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[mok199]

3 hours ago, seancbk said:

 

In 20 years you've not met a Thai was went to school in the UK, Australia or the US?   You've never interacted with a Thai who works in a five star hotel?

What sort of life do you lead where in 20 years of living in Thailand you've not met a Thai who can speak English extremely well??



 

dude you have missed the point ,let me explain slowly..i have never seen a group of students S T U D E N T S...is that clear enough...

[DrTuner]

39 minutes ago, Eligius said:

Another thing that needs to change here is this appalling hierarchical obsession where pupils at a Thai school, or students at a Thai university, will kneel on the ground in front of the teacher out of 'deference'. It is terribly uncomfortable for us Westerners to be on the receiving end of this grovelling behaviour (I have complained about it to Thai colleagues - but nothing ever changes). It partly explains why the Thais allow the junta to treat them in the way they do: the junta are at the top of the hierarchy, and the Thais are the 'little people' down at the bottom of the pile - and so must worm and squirm on the ground out of 'respect'. 

Practical Sakdina 101:

 

 

Graaaaaaaaapp..

[digger70]

6 hours ago, mok199 said:

i have lived here 20 years,and have never once (not one time) heard thais outside of a school setting ,speaking English in an attempt (in a safe enviorment of classmates) to better themselves. I have on numerous occasions asked '' why don't you and your freinds try "" the answer is always the same ,even their thai parents say '' shy''...in my opinion it is laziness and a lack of motivation..shy is the easy excuse

They an't shy ,,, just listen how they treat their Parents,,, they just don't care,,,,

[seancbk]

11 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

3 hours ago, seancbk said:

 
In 20 years you've not met a Thai was went to school in the UK, Australia or the US?   You've never interacted with a Thai who works in a five star hotel?

What sort of life do you lead where in 20 years of living in Thailand you've not met a Thai who can speak English extremely well??



 

 

Many people commenting most likely have rather restricted experiences of Thais. As an IELTS instructor and examiner I come across many Thai students at both bachelor and masters degree level who are between bands 6.5 and 7.5 in Academic IELTS (some higher than that), on a daily basis.

 

Yes, it seems that a large percentage of people that comment in these threads do indeed have very limited exposure to Thais.  I find it quite bizarre really.  You only have to walk into a decent hotel in Bangkok and you'll be interacting with Thais who can speak very good English and certainly better than 'bar girls' which someone put forward as evidence that some Thais speak good English.

I actually feel very sorry for anyone who lives here and has so little personal connection to educated Thais.

[seancbk]

16 minutes ago, mok199 said:

dude you have missed the point ,let me explain slowly..i have never seen a group of students S T U D E N T S...is that clear enough...

 

Well if you'd said that to start with it would have been much clearer.  

You actually said :- 

"i have lived here 20 years,and have never once (not one time) heard thais outside of a school setting ,speaking English in an attempt (in a safe enviorment of classmates) to better themselves. I have on numerous occasions asked '' why don't you and your freinds try "" the answer is always the same ,even their thai parents say '' shy''...in my opinion it is laziness and a lack of motivation..shy is the easy excuse"


Which still reads to me like you've never heard a Thai (outside of a school) speaking English, as if to say you don't interact with English speaking Thais.   

 

[mok199]

22 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

Practical Sakdina 101:

 

 

Graaaaaaaaapp..

I watched in horror as a teacher pushed my 3 yr olds head lower as he wyed her, I walked towards her to say something ,my wife got in between us and we had a'' discussion'' about how low is low enough...my god I was pissed..but we do like the school and the teacher now realizes her mistake...thank god my wife was present,it may not have ended so well

Edited June 15, 2018 by mok199
speliings

[mok199]

7 minutes ago, seancbk said:

 

Well if you'd said that to start with it would have been much clearer.  

You actually said :- 

"i have lived here 20 years,and have never once (not one time) heard thais outside of a school setting ,speaking English in an attempt (in a safe enviorment of classmates) to better themselves. I have on numerous occasions asked '' why don't you and your freinds try "" the answer is always the same ,even their thai parents say '' shy''...in my opinion it is laziness and a lack of motivation..shy is the easy excuse"


Which still reads to me like you've never heard a Thai (outside of a school) speaking English, as if to say you don't interact with English speaking Thais.   

 

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Get Real]

This is unfathomable!

 

Do we really know what is the problem here? I have a daugther with a thai wife. She is six years old and are going to private school. Actually the best and most expensive I can find in the area.

 

When she get home work, they send her home with a page for learning like, tit, lit, mit, sit, dit and fit and then sign the sounds in thai language.

That would be like I tried to learn arabic language, and tried to write it in the ABC alphabet?

That´s their genuine problem, and that is the place where the brain stops work.

Shit theachers create shit education, and this country is full of people that knowes nothing. Go Figure!

Edited June 15, 2018 by Get Real

[Rhys]

.... we forget these students without the opportunities to practice because of lack of motivation and need to practice.. Why bother...  That is one of the more challenging factors... Plus the lack of discipline ... Not everyone can have the ops to go abroad learn the language and criticize their fellow students...   Students resent this type of AH..

[StayinThailand2much]

6 hours ago, mok199 said:

i have lived here 20 years,and have never once (not one time) heard thais outside of a school setting ,speaking English in an attempt (in a safe enviorment of classmates) to better themselves. I have on numerous occasions asked '' why don't you and your freinds try "" the answer is always the same ,even their thai parents say '' shy''...in my opinion it is laziness and a lack of motivation..shy is the easy excuse

Fortunately, people in poorer countries like Laos, Cambodia, and Vietnam are not shy, but can learn English easily. Thais are not shy when calling foreigners "puah", "hotdog", or telling them 'this is not your country', etc. And no, the word is not "shy", but the words are 'lazy', 'racism' and 'xenophobia'! Why can even poorer people in Laos, Cambodia, or Vietnam give foreigners a friendly 'hello', while Thais can only murmur insults behind foreigners' backs, while not even answering friendly greetings by foreigners in Thai?

Edited June 15, 2018 by StayinThailand2much

[mok199]

6 minutes ago, StayinThailand2much said:

Fortunately, people in poorer countries like Laos, Cambodia, and Vietnam are not shy, but can learn English easily. Thais are not shy when calling foreigners "puah", "hotdog", or telling them 'this is not your country', etc. And no, the word is not "shy", but 'lazy', 'racism' and 'xenophobia'!

correct if a child has the thirst for knowledge and language ,he or she will learn....on the other side if a child is lazy the excuses are endless...everyone of these students has a phone,on that phone are programs ,in those programs the tools exist...NO EXCUSES

[Eligius]

35 minutes ago, mok199 said:

I watched in horror as a teacher pushed my 3 yr olds head lower as he wyed her, I walked towards her to say something ,my wife got in between us and we had a'' discussion'' about how low is low enough...my god I was pissed..but we do like the school and the teacher now realizes her mistake...thank god my wife was present,it may not have ended so well

Yes, this enforced grovelling is terrible.

By the way, another ludicrous thing is the way 'krap' or 'ka' is tagged on to nearly every sentence - to indicate 'respect'. It is so ubiquitous that it becomes completely meaningless. The final proof of its idiocy is that I have often seen Thais say 'krap' (or 'ka') when speaking to a baby. This makes a complete mockery of the idea of 'krap' indicating respect - for respect is earned, not gifted to a 10-month old baby (kindness, yes - but not 'respect' - that's just idiotic).

[Eligius]

19 minutes ago, mok199 said:

correct if a child has the thirst for knowledge and language ,he or she will learn....on the other side if a child is lazy the excuses are endless...everyone of these students has a phone,on that phone are programs ,in those programs the tools exist...NO EXCUSES

It is so, so much easier - incredibly much easier, astronomically easier - nowadays to acquire knowledge than when you and I (I dare say) were children and students. Information abounds now at the click of a mouse. It's a different world. 

 

And yet: most Thais that I have encountered remain stunningly lacking in general knowledge - or any real knowledge at all (including of their own professions, very often!).

 

Edited June 15, 2018 by Eligius

[mok199]

4 minutes ago, Eligius said:

Yes, this enforced grovelling is terrible.

By the way, another ludicrous thing is the way 'krap' or 'ka' is tagged on to nearly every sentence - to indicate 'respect'. It is so ubiquitous that it becomes completely meaningless. The final proof of its idiocy is that I have often seen Thais say 'krap' (or 'ka') when speaking to a baby. This makes a complete mockery of the idea of 'krap' indicating respect - for respect is earned, not gifted to a 10-month old baby (kindness, yes - but not 'respect' - that's just idiotic).

yes we as a family had the ''crap'' talk a few years ago..also the grunt for yes and the lower grunt for no ''talk'', I said to my wife '' real words exist for yes and no,we don't use grunts in this house''...as for the gender alignment and polite ponoun ''crap'' we alow it ( but not over the top) I am not happy about this decision but happy wife happy life....the battle continues

[StayinThailand2much]

7 minutes ago, Eligius said:

And yet: most Thais that I have encountered remain stunningly lacking in general knowledge - or any real knowledge at all (including of their own professions, very often!).

 

Many Thais I know are better than I will ever be at playing the latest games and music on their phones, or using Line, Facebook, Google Translate, etc. There are plenty Thai-English study and translation apps, so if they wanted to, they'd know how to use them. The same applies to other languages, e.g. Chinese, or sciences, history, literature, professional training and skills, etc., etc.

[Eligius]

1 minute ago, StayinThailand2much said:

Many Thais I know are better than I will ever be at playing the latest games and music on their phones, or using Line, Facebook, Google Translate, etc. There are plenty Thai-English study and translation apps, so if they wanted to, they'd know how to use them. The same applies to other languages, e.g. Chinese, or sciences, history, literature, professional training and skills, etc., etc.

Right! The opportunities for learning are massive nowadays - if the Thais (or anyone else, for that matter) wishes to avail themselves of them. 

 

But 'playing Facebook' (note that everything for Thais is childishly called 'playing' - 'playing computer', 'playing Facebook') is much more important than expanding their world vision and knowledge.

[StayinThailand2much]

14 minutes ago, mok199 said:

This makes a complete mockery of the idea of 'krap' indicating respect - for respect is earned, not gifted to a 10-month old baby (kindness, yes - but not 'respect' - that's just idiotic).

Then again, oftentimes, nowadays, as a foreigner, you won't get any 'thank you', neither in Thai, nor in English, which shows again how much (or little) respect Thais have for foreigners, esp. Caucasians, or people from neighbouring countries.

 

The other day I was really taken aback by the friendly "Thank you so much." after a purchase at Yamazaki. (I had to rub my eyes to make sure I was still in Thailand... Beats the "Falang, falang, hahaha..., at places like Burger King, McDonald's, some 7-Eleven stores, Tesco-Lotus, etc., where I shop less and less often. - Those places should really hire staff with less of an attitude.)

Edited June 15, 2018 by StayinThailand2much

[mok199]

the only thing worse than the ''purchase''  is the dreaded ''return''....I have to take the wife for that ordeal

Edited June 15, 2018 by mok199
s

[Eligius]

1 minute ago, mok199 said:

ah yes the purchase , but ''the purchase return'' is even worse..

And don't forget the golden rule: NEVER ask a Thai shop assistant for information about anything.  They know nothing about any of the goods they sell. They are worse than useless. They will blithely tell you that they do not have a particular product in stock ('mai mee') - when there is a whole stash of that product piled up to the ceiling, right behind them!

[Aussieroaming]

8 hours ago, jaltsc said:

"In addition to getting better jobs and more money their life is enhanced by being able to speak English."

 

How can they tell? Most bar girls speak better English than Thais with college degrees majoring in English. I've met some of these graduates, and they can't understand or speak any English.

Do they speak English or barfly