Rock'n'Rolling

[Bass60]

Dear Friends,

 

Can somebody explain to me why in Thailand an amatorial farang musician (as me and other hundreds) cannot play a not remunerated jam in a public places without risk the imprisonment and the registration on the black list? 

I have my job here, I pay my taxes every month, and I like to play for have some fun with friends: does it sounds illegal?

 

 

[seancbk]

I know a few farang musicians who play regularly all over Bangkok and have done for years.   Never heard of any of them having any problems.   
 

 

[Emster23]

In Pattaya it depends on how much influence you have with local cops and admin. I've done charity gigs here, used to play at open mic at now gone Bristol Bar. Cops would come by regularly. Pattaya orphanage had some pull, but hard to get word to local fuzz looking for income. Used to raise money for Banglamung home for boys. Lady that ran it had power, was never bothered.

Local bars... make sure they have the juice. You don't want a black mark and 20k baht fine.

I agree it is a bummer we can't go out and make noise... Why do they do it? Because they can

[quandow]

33 minutes ago, Emster23 said:

" used to play at open mic at now gone Bristol Bar."

I know the owner of the now defunct Bristols quite well. He had to have an umbrella work permit to cover all the volunteers. And it WAS a genuine benefit for The Chameleon Society which I believe helped cut through red tape. The point is a work permit WAS required.

Edited June 19, 2018 by quandow

[mfd101]

And if you & your partner were playing a Mozart fortepiano sonata with violin accompaniment, you'ld be doing 2 Thais out of a job.

[atyclb]

i have routinely jammed with thai bands both at tourist venues and local venues. never any hassle though i know an expat that was arrested and locked up for playing guitar at a soi cowboy pub.

 

he was a regular and there as a paying customer each and every time. ends up a high ranking cop sided with him but only after having had the pleasure of being arrested by an inexperienced lady cop.

 

dont know that i'd take my own guitar and risk confiscation

 

 

[Kurtf]

  Farangs are not allowed to work in Thailand unless it is a teaching job. And I'll wager you aren't playing your instrument strictly for the fun of it.

 

[JRUSA]

25 minutes ago, Kurtf said:

  Farangs are not allowed to work in Thailand unless it is a teaching job. And I'll wager you aren't playing your instrument strictly for the fun of it.

 

I play with my instrument for fun everyday, well not everyday, well a couple times a week.. sometimes more when the gf is in the mood..

[Kerryd]

5 minutes ago, JRUSA said:

I play with my instrument for fun everyday, well not everyday, well a couple times a week.. sometimes more when the gf is in the mood..

Skin Flutes and "Bone-a-phones" can only be played in the privacy of one's home. Or hotel room. Or short-time room. Or the back seat of a vehicle with tinted windows. Or (in some cases) in the bathrooms of certain "entertainment establishments".

However, playing your "instrument" for money would still be illegal, regardless of the venue.

When in doubt, go to your nearest Police Station and try playing your "instrument" in front of it. If you are arrested, beaten and hauled away (not necessarily in that order) then it's a good bet that either it is illegal to play that "instrument" in public, or your "playing" is so lousy that it demands incarceration !

[scorecard]

40 minutes ago, Kurtf said:

  Farangs are not allowed to work in Thailand unless it is a teaching job. And I'll wager you aren't playing your instrument strictly for the fun of it.

 

Only teachers, that's news.

[PerkinsCuthbert]

4 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Only teachers, that's news.

Certainly is; there must be tens of thousands of foreign consultants, lawyers, engineers and a hundred other occupations who have been duped by the companies employing them in Thailand into thinking they were legal. 

[seancbk]

56 minutes ago, Kurtf said:

  Farangs are not allowed to work in Thailand unless it is a teaching job. And I'll wager you aren't playing your instrument strictly for the fun of it.

 

 

Where do you get such a stupid idea?  Or are you trying and failing to be funny?

[quandow]

1 hour ago, Kurtf said:

  Farangs are not allowed to work in Thailand unless it is a teaching job. And I'll wager you aren't playing your instrument strictly for the fun of it.

 

I used to think the same thing. Teaching jobs ARE the most abundant, but there are plenty of other jobs available:
http://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand/working-thailand.php

[quandow]

58 minutes ago, seancbk said:

 

Where do you get such a stupid idea?  Or are you trying and failing to be funny?

It's not stupid, and you calling out the poster as such is just plain mean spirited. I'm a bit surprised, you seem to have been active on TV for some time - this topic reappears all too frequently and a number of folks learn that there are other jobs, not just teaching. It's the difference between explaining something to someone or rapping them on the nose with a rolled up newspaper.

Edited June 19, 2018 by quandow

[dddave]

According to several friends who are also musicians and sometimes get together and jam at various bars, problems most often come from bars nearby that don't like the competition and complain to the police.  

A friend had a restaurant/bar in Surin with a upstairs "farang" area and a downstairs "Thai" area.  He had a lot of successful jams there until it got too popular and jealous bar owners nearby started calling the cops. 

[Wake Up]

In Soi Cowboy expats join the band at that music bar on the corner and play the drums, guitar, sing etc.  actually some are pretty good and fun to watch. 

To play a club and get paid is not allowed but playing for fun I can’t see any risk by the police. 

[NoshowJones]

I am an ex professional musician, and have often went on stage to perform in Pattaya where live bands are playing, and as I do not bother about peoples rules and regulations as long as no ordinary person is getting harmed if I can get away with it, I am happy to continue doing so.

[NoshowJones]

4 hours ago, Kurtf said:

  Farangs are not allowed to work in Thailand unless it is a teaching job. And I'll wager you aren't playing your instrument strictly for the fun of it.

 

When I was a teacher, I played my guitar and keyboards in class at the request of the Head of the English Department.

[quandow]

1 hour ago, possum1931 said:

I do not bother about peoples rules and regulations 

That attitude CAN get you landed in a Thai jail. I know a SCUBA instructor who was merely cleaning his own personal gear in a dive store's storage garage when an immigration officer saw him, asked for a work permit and when the instructor couldn't provide one, he landed in the grey bar hotel. I also know the Thai official in Pattaya who used to issue work permits allowing musicians to play, and if you got on his wrong side, you wound up in jail.  As this IS Thailand there is no consistency to how the laws are applied, but eventually you WOULD have had a problem depending on frequency of playing and venues.

Edited June 19, 2018 by quandow

[NoshowJones]

32 minutes ago, quandow said:

That attitude CAN get you landed in a Thai jail. I know a SCUBA instructor who was merely cleaning his own personal gear in a dive store's storage garage when an immigration officer saw him, asked for a work permit and when the instructor couldn't provide one, he landed in the grey bar hotel. I also know the Thai official in Pattaya who used to issue work permits allowing musicians to play, and if you got on his wrong side, you wound up in jail.  As this IS Thailand there is no consistency to how the laws are applied, but eventually you WOULD have had a problem depending on frequency of playing and venues.

I understand what you are saying, but you do have to take some chances in life, or you may as well just stay in your bed. Rules were made to be broken, just make sure you do not harm any ordinary person ie, when I bought a new truck, the rules say that you must not go out of your province with a red plate on.

I do not agree with that rule, so I drove the truck out of my province, and I bet just about everyone else would do it too.

I walked in to a Pattaya bar with some mates where there was live music playing, the girl MC recognised me right away and ask me on stage to sing and play a couple of songs with the band, I did so, why not? I do not care if any rules say I shouldn't, what harm is it doing?

I was not doing a Thai musician out of a job as the band had their own bass player and he just lent me his guitar.

[smotherb]

I am surprised so many of you have been here so long and still don't seem to understand the varying shades of legality here. I have seen Western and Eastern foreigners playing and singing with Thai bands all over. There are many Filipino musicians and singers working here. Maybe two weeks ago, I was in Samui; three of the four-member band were farang, the drummer was Thai. Two other farangs joined them to sing and play guitar. A German I know sings regularly with a Thai band for gigs all over Thailand. There was a popular American, named Dave I think, who had a Blues bar in Bangkok. Never saw him there, but saw him two or three times in Southern Thailand when he and his band toured. He was especially good--he started with traditional American blues sets; then about half-way into the show switched to total Thai; telling jokes, singing songs and even took requests for Thai songs. I do not know whether any of them have a work permit or not.

[quandow]

47 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

"you do have to take some chances in life"

My favorite saying I learned in Thailand: "Up to you."

[patrick kennedy]

WHY ASK STUPID QUESTIONS WHEN YOU ALREADY KNOW ITS NOT PERMITTED TO PLAY,YOU WILL GET MANY ANSWERS BUT THE POINT IS YOU ALREADY KNOW YOUR ANSWER.YOU CANNOT AND WILL NOT CHANGE THAI LAW IF YOU ASK 1 MILLION TIMES.PLAY IN YOUR OWN HOUSE IF YOU WANT AND THEN YOU WONT HAVE TO BOTHER OR ASK STUPID QUESTIONS,THIS IS THAILAND.MOST OF US FARANGS LOVE TO HEAR GOOD OLD FASHIONED MUSIC AND IT IS OUR TRADITION BUT YOU SHOULD KNOW IT DOES NOT SUITE THE THAI LAW TO SEE US HAPPY.

[transam]

8 minutes ago, patrick kennedy said:

WHY ASK STUPID QUESTIONS WHEN YOU ALREADY KNOW ITS NOT PERMITTED TO PLAY,YOU WILL GET MANY ANSWERS BUT THE POINT IS YOU ALREADY KNOW YOUR ANSWER.YOU CANNOT AND WILL NOT CHANGE THAI LAW IF YOU ASK 1 MILLION TIMES.PLAY IN YOUR OWN HOUSE IF YOU WANT AND THEN YOU WONT HAVE TO BOTHER OR ASK STUPID QUESTIONS,THIS IS THAILAND.MOST OF US FARANGS LOVE TO HEAR GOOD OLD FASHIONED MUSIC AND IT IS OUR TRADITION BUT YOU SHOULD KNOW IT DOES NOT SUITE THE THAI LAW TO SEE US HAPPY.

Your caps lock is on...

[elgenon]

I would like to teach conversational Thai  as a volunteer. Can't do it. Would I be replacing a Thai? I doubt it.

 

Same same but different.

 

A thought: Isn't giving advice and info on Thai Visa depriving a Thai of a job?

[cyberfarang]

On 6/19/2018 at 4:18 PM, smotherb said:

I am surprised so many of you have been here so long and still don't seem to understand the varying shades of legality here. I have seen Western and Eastern foreigners playing and singing with Thai bands all over. There are many Filipino musicians and singers working here. Maybe two weeks ago, I was in Samui; three of the four-member band were farang, the drummer was Thai. Two other farangs joined them to sing and play guitar. A German I know sings regularly with a Thai band for gigs all over Thailand. There was a popular American, named Dave I think, who had a Blues bar in Bangkok. Never saw him there, but saw him two or three times in Southern Thailand when he and his band toured. He was especially good--he started with traditional American blues sets; then about half-way into the show switched to total Thai; telling jokes, singing songs and even took requests for Thai songs. I do not know whether any of them have a work permit or not.

That`s correct, I`ve seen several Farang singers and bands playing openly in bars, clubs and restaurants over the years.

 

But unless they have work permits and government approved permission to perform in public, they are breaking the law in Thailand. Some  years ago several Farang musicians were arrested and jailed in Chiang Mai for a short period for performing at a bar venue.

 

Every now and then the police decide to have a purge. So if I were a Farang musician performing regularly at public venues, I would definitely be looking over my shoulder and ready to run if the police arrive.  

[Wake Up]

I encourage all expats that are musical to join the band if the band allows it. Something about it makes the place more fun for me and others.  Thanks to all the expat musicians that I have seen play in BKK. 

[fusion58]

I'd be gigging here in BKK if that were possible, but, alas, I'm here on a non-OA (retirement) visa, so a work permit would be out of the question.

 

As for the other "quasi-legal" alternatives, they're just too risky in light of the corrupt, inconsistent and unpredictable law enforcement landscape here.

 

It's unfortunate that "musician" is a protected occupation. Such a restriction doesn't make for a very healthy music scene, IMO. Opening the field to international competition would raise the bar for talent, and generate more business for everybody.

 

You'd think the "powers that be" would at least look at loosening some of the restrictions, e.g., establish a rule that foreigners can play out as long as the bandleader is a Thai, as long as 'x' number of band members are Thai or whatever.

 

 

[JLCrab]

Some farang musicians who might get up on stage to play at a public venue may be really good and some just think that they are really good. While the current regs maybe unfairly restrict the former, they do a public service in maybe restricting the latter.

Edited June 22, 2018 by JLCrab

[Tapster]

What I've heard, in the south of Phuket, is that you may get your gear confiscated if you're thought to be doing anything that brings more business into the bar.

 

My friends and I have been offered several places to play at, for fun and no money, but have declined. The professional bands that play here (and there are successful all-farang bands) either have work permits or some sort of 'special arrangement' with someone. We don't have the contacts.

 

As for "having to take some chances in life", I'm not taking a chance that someone will confiscate my gear.

 

?