If you moan about Thai people maybe the problem rests with you

[richard_smith237]

28 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

I get the pressure to write a column, but really:  This is a null topic.

 

If you are in a foreign country and moan about how it is done there, then you are by default wrong..

 

Get over it or get gone, cause it ain't gonna change for you.

 

Thats fair enough if someone is moaning for the sake of moaning... but is that any different from expressing an opinion?

 

It seems we can express a positive opinion until someone accuses us of wearing 'rose tinted glasses'...

It seems we can't express a negative opinion without some suggesting 'if you don't like it go home'...

 

By 'default' it is human nature to develop an opinion on anything, we would be wooden, brainless, personality-less morons without the ability to develop any opinion.... but, it's where and how we express the opinion...  to find common ground or as with this forum sometimes - simply to vent.

 

If I have learned anything in Thailand its that Thai's too have very similar opinions of the issues we westerners also find irritating, negative or just downright wrong. Thus, I fail to recognize that a westerner having the same opinion and discussing it with his friends, many of whom would be Thai is in the wrong?

 

I suspect the real issue is the timing, location and audience we chose and how expressive we are.  BUT, the 'if you don't like it go home response' or as you put it 'get gone' is fundamentally flawed in that it suggests we as visitors have no rights to an opinion, no right to discuss our opinions with our friends (Thai or otherwise) and are not permitted to vent now and again... 

 

As an example, the suggestion ["If you are in a foreign country and moan about how it is done there, then you are by default wrong"] could also imply that we [foreigners / Westerners] are wrong if we discuss the dangerous driving in Thailand when in fact we are not wrong and most Thai's would be in agreement with any opinions we may develop on this subject. 

 

Of course, there are some who can never be pleased and it's these people upon whose shoulders this topic rests. But, these people are few and far between and it's unfair for someone who holds a valid opinion no matter how negative to be tarred with the same brush as the 'un-pleaseable-foreigner' or commonly referred to as the GOM (Grumpy old man - referencing an entertaining thread from a few years ago)

Edited June 17, 2018 by richard_smith237

[whaleboneman]

14 hours ago, NetJunkie said:

Things doing things is strange enough, but to then reference "things" as "lesser people" is just poor writing.

Please remember we're not all english teachers here.

[Justfine]

9 hours ago, Tchooptip said:

I guess you meant 25 pairs of shoes, because otherwise I reckon those 50 shoes are a waste for sure.?

Don't have many shoes but got like 20 socks that don't match. Washing machine must have eaten the other ones.

[Justfine]

8 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Thats fair enough if someone is moaning for the sake of moaning... but is that any different from expressing an opinion?

 

It seems we can express a positive opinion until someone accuses us of wearing 'rose tinted glasses'...

It seems we can't express a negative opinion without some suggesting 'if you don't like it go home'...

 

By 'default' it is human nature to develop an opinion on anything, we would be wooden, brainless, personality-less morons without the ability to develop any opinion.... but, it's where and how we express the opinion...  to find common ground or as with this forum sometimes - simply to vent.

 

If I have learned anything in Thailand its that Thai's too have very similar opinions of the issues we westerners also find irritating, negative or just downright wrong. Thus, I fail to recognize that a westerner having the same opinion and discussing it with his friends, many of whom would be Thai is in the wrong?

 

I suspect the real issue is the timing, location and audience we chose and how expressive we are.  BUT, the 'if you don't like it go home response' or as you put it 'get gone' is fundamentally flawed in that it suggests we as visitors have no rights to an opinion, no right to discuss our opinions with our friends (Thai or otherwise) and are not permitted to vent now and again... 

 

As an example, the suggestion ["If you are in a foreign country and moan about how it is done there, then you are by default wrong"] could also imply that we [foreigners / Westerners] are wrong if we discuss the dangerous driving in Thailand when in fact we are not wrong and most Thai's would be in agreement with any opinions we may develop on this subject. 

 

Of course, there are some who can never be pleased and it's these people upon whose shoulders this topic rests. But, these people are few and far between and it's unfair for someone who holds a valid opinion no matter how negative to be tarred with the same brush as the 'un-pleaseable-foreigner' or commonly referred to as the GOM (Grumpy old man - referencing an entertaining thread from a few years ago)

Minority? Have you read this forum before? Lots of complaining. The happy people are the minority lol

[4MyEgo]

12 hours ago, maximillian said:

 

In my home country Germany I had to complain a lot more than I have to complain in Thailand, but I just can't give up "good" habits so easily ?

So I keep complaining.

 

 

Fortunately for me, my wife spent 9 years with me in Sydney and saw first hand, what a complaint is, many times over, and how to lodge or make a complaint, she is the one now who complains here in Thailand which makes me smile, maybe we will start a revolution.  

 

 

Edited June 17, 2018 by 4MyEgo

[catman20]

12 hours ago, Justfine said:

If you have 50 shoes and don't wear then it's probably a waste.

and if your auntie had balls she would of been your uncle. ?

[NetJunkie]

7 hours ago, whaleboneman said:

Please remember we're not all english teachers here.

 

Very true, but we should be able to expect members of the Thai visa team to be able to string together a few coherent sentences.

[Justfine]

51 minutes ago, catman20 said:

and if your auntie had balls she would of been your uncle. ?

You seem to like balls

[Hummin]

21 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Your home country doesn't have 75% scooters.  If it did, they would see 60+ traffic deaths each day.

 

Just be thankful your home country's economy doesn't force most people to choose unsafe modes of transport.

So the scooters is the problem, not the car drivers that dont give a <deleted>? Not mentioned drugs or other stimulants that goes with it. If only scooters, it would not been that bad, but still, bad. 

 

And think about it, if those scooters was cars? ?

Edited June 18, 2018 by Hummin

[Hummin]

19 hours ago, Justfine said:

Every topic about Thais (or Trump) the same people are moaning.

 

Dan is correct.

?

Well its all about Intellect and understanding of how things work and should be, and not be! Common understanding of politness and behavior as well. Important factors but as I said before, I accept Im a foreigner in Thailand, and suck up to it, but when it comes to Trump? I do not need to suck up to it, he is a lunatic in wrong place. I should be sucured, but not by secreet service! my humble opinion

[Cranky]

1 hour ago, catman20 said:

and if your auntie had balls she would of been your uncle. ?

My daughter's auntie did have balls

[altcar bob]

22 hours ago, ChakaKhan said:

I expect the worst--hope for the best--less disappointed..

Basically I just walk away when it gets to the point of blank wall staring

[Hummin]

12 hours ago, Cranky said:

No smoke without fire - otherwise why is the article worth writing?  Certainly a'int worth reading.

You did!

[Hummin]

4 minutes ago, altcar bob said:

Basically I just walk away when it gets to the point of blank wall staring

And we are lucky we can!

[Hummin]

Nobody want to hang around moaners, and I do not! It was this german fellow moving to my country after being bankrupt home. He could not get his thai wife on visa do to economic problems, and moved inside EU, so his wife legaly could follow (EU rules) He started early pointing out everything that was better in his Germany, and we all soon got tired of him,  avoided him, did not invite him anymore, and his wife got more lonely. Sorry for her, but the other wifeys finely took care of the situation, and involved her, even we men did not have the energy to stay around him anymore. So there the history, an even we know things can be better, we for surten do not like to be told by an immigrant!

 

It is a complete different story, to complain about things we find strange, difficult, stupid and so on here inside of an expat fora, than moaning face to face everytime we meet people on the street, bar, gym etc. It is something called common sence and timing. 

[Cranky]

14 minutes ago, Hummin said:

You did!

No actually.  The headline was enough to know that some 'Thai Defending' was on the way and that we really should accept incompetence, dangerous driving, littering, pollution, crap service, lawlessness, corruption, over-pricing and general all round tardiness and stop whining.  Personally I don't whine about it at all; it is what it is, like or lump it, take it or leave it - I have actually chosen to leave it. 

[Skeptic7]

Common sense and common courtesy are just not all that common anywhere...but India, Thailand and most of Asia seem to take the lack thereof to a higher level on a regular basis! 

[Hummin]

12 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

Common sense and common courtesy are just not all that common anywhere...but India, Thailand and most of Asia seem to take the lack thereof to a higher level on a regular basis! 

It is a religion and personal belief issue, or lack of it. 

 

Interesting reading about world relegion, and how humans adopt to it, and how governments use it towards their own people. OMG, I wish I had a new life, where I could travel and search for history origns at same time. Would never be a boring minute for sure, and all paid by the legats and government. 

[Skeptic7]

38 minutes ago, Hummin said:

It is a religion and personal belief issue, or lack of it. 

 

Interesting reading about world relegion, and how humans adopt to it, and how governments use it towards their own people. OMG, I wish I had a new life, where I could travel and search for history origns at same time. Would never be a boring minute for sure, and all paid by the legats and government. 

Not sure whether you're asking a question or making a statement, but much as I like blaming religion for most things, including ignorance and "dullardry"...this issue doesn't have to be.

 

Though it goes so much deeper than this...simple manners, politeness and common courtesy are just not instilled anymore. Probably never were in most Asian countries. Most people are self-centered, oblivious,  and lacking good judgment. Parents teaching kids to think before speaking or reacting, make sound decisions, simple problem solving skills, critical thinking skills, to be polite...wait your turn, let people exit before bull rushing, etc just weren't ever taught here and are now disappearing in the many Western countries. Lack of any discipline nowadays is a big part of it. 

[Grusa]

21 hours ago, possum1931 said:

The only thing I have misgivings about here in Thailand, is the very sad lack of common sense among most of the population, I am referring to people from the very top, ie politicians, highly educated people etc, to the rice farmer, shopworker, etc.

In saying that, I still say that overall, the good far outweighs the bad, where in the UK it is the exact opposite.

I do not believe that Thai people, at any level of society, are inherently unintelligent, stupid, lazy or venal. They are born normal, with the normal range of intelligence and intellectual curiosity.

 

I do however believe that the vast majority of the population are deliberately made that way by the education system, which is deliberately perpetuated by the hi-so classes for their own advantage. Brainwashing works.

[Brunolem]

12 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Thats fair enough if someone is moaning for the sake of moaning... but is that any different from expressing an opinion?

 

It seems we can express a positive opinion until someone accuses us of wearing 'rose tinted glasses'...

It seems we can't express a negative opinion without some suggesting 'if you don't like it go home'...

 

By 'default' it is human nature to develop an opinion on anything, we would be wooden, brainless, personality-less morons without the ability to develop any opinion.... but, it's where and how we express the opinion...  to find common ground or as with this forum sometimes - simply to vent.

 

If I have learned anything in Thailand its that Thai's too have very similar opinions of the issues we westerners also find irritating, negative or just downright wrong. Thus, I fail to recognize that a westerner having the same opinion and discussing it with his friends, many of whom would be Thai is in the wrong?

 

I suspect the real issue is the timing, location and audience we chose and how expressive we are.  BUT, the 'if you don't like it go home response' or as you put it 'get gone' is fundamentally flawed in that it suggests we as visitors have no rights to an opinion, no right to discuss our opinions with our friends (Thai or otherwise) and are not permitted to vent now and again... 

 

As an example, the suggestion ["If you are in a foreign country and moan about how it is done there, then you are by default wrong"] could also imply that we [foreigners / Westerners] are wrong if we discuss the dangerous driving in Thailand when in fact we are not wrong and most Thai's would be in agreement with any opinions we may develop on this subject. 

 

Of course, there are some who can never be pleased and it's these people upon whose shoulders this topic rests. But, these people are few and far between and it's unfair for someone who holds a valid opinion no matter how negative to be tarred with the same brush as the 'un-pleaseable-foreigner' or commonly referred to as the GOM (Grumpy old man - referencing an entertaining thread from a few years ago)

A brilliant expose!

 

Unfortunately, many foreigners go native and in the process become more Thai than the Thais themselves.

 

As a French, not only do I criticize my own country, but I have absolutely no problem with foreigners doing the same.

There is a book written by a British, that was on sale in Thailand, with the title "one year in the merde", referring to his long stay in France...

I hardly imagine that it would be possible to publish a similar book relating to Thailand...

[xylophone]

4 minutes ago, Grusa said:

I do not believe that Thai people, at any level of society, are inherently unintelligent, stupid, lazy or venal. They are born normal, with the normal range of intelligence and intellectual curiosity.

 

I do however believe that the vast majority of the population are deliberately made that way by the education system, which is deliberately perpetuated by the hi-so classes for their own advantage. Brainwashing works.

Interesting...………...so why does the current leader and his cronies prove your second paragraph wrong by coming out with some absolute doozeys from time to time.

 

Highly educated yes; intelligent...………..their utterings and behaviour prove otherwise, so genes at play????

[NoshowJones]

6 minutes ago, Grusa said:

I do not believe that Thai people, at any level of society, are inherently unintelligent, stupid, lazy or venal. They are born normal, with the normal range of intelligence and intellectual curiosity.

 

I do however believe that the vast majority of the population are deliberately made that way by the education system, which is deliberately perpetuated by the hi-so classes for their own advantage. Brainwashing works.

I think you may have a point here, but would you say that. ie motorcyclists riding against the traffic has anything to do with the education system? Would the dreadful road fatalities have anything to do with the education system?

I am not agreeing, or disagreeing with you, but it would interesting to know your views on this.

[Grusa]

1 minute ago, xylophone said:

Interesting...………...so why does the current leader and his cronies prove your second paragraph wrong by coming out with some absolute doozeys from time to time.

 

Highly educated yes; intelligent...………..their utterings and behaviour prove otherwise, so genes at play????

Remember that the gentlemen to whom you refer are products of the very education system to which I refer.......'nuff said!

[Hummin]

26 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

Not sure whether you're asking a question or making a statement, but much as I like blaming religion for most things, including ignorance and "dullardry"...this issue doesn't have to be.

 

Though it goes so much deeper than this...simple manners, politeness and common courtesy are just not instilled anymore. Probably never were in most Asian countries. Most people are self-centered, oblivious,  and lacking good judgment. Parents teaching kids to think before speaking or reacting, make sound decisions, simple problem solving skills, critical thinking skills, to be polite...wait your turn, let people exit before bull rushing, etc just weren't ever taught here and are now disappearing in the many Western countries. Lack of any discipline nowadays is a big part of it. 

It is a lack of proper parenting, teaching, training, give them perspective of life, and understanding of consequenses by not doing what is necessery, and also proof that it actually work. Even you born poor, it doesnt mean you have to be poor rest of your life. Government and poltiicians lying to their poeple, do have a huge impact, and of course police who is supposed to protect their people often exploit them. 

 

Give females their right, and you will se changes in the society for the better, but that also av a turning point ?

 

In the mean time, Im observing life and and enjoy my life at its best, as good I can. Cant save the world, and for sure not the people in it. 

[Grusa]

2 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

I think you may have a point here, but would you say that. ie motorcyclists riding against the traffic has anything to do with the education system? Would the dreadful road fatalities have anything to do with the education system?

I am not agreeing, or disagreeing with you, but it would interesting to know your views on this.

Yes. They are not encouraged to look ahead, think ahead, or indeed at all, and are not trained to consider potential dangers or the consequences of their actions to themselves or to others. They are encouraged to put all their faith in Bhudda and karma. If they,  or some innocent bystander, are killed, maimed, or impoverished, it was meant to be and not avoidable. 

Another factor is loss of face. It is unacceptable to lose face, so no-one ever fails a test or exam, however incompetent. Just pay tea money and it all goes away. 

[Brunolem]

20 minutes ago, Grusa said:

I do not believe that Thai people, at any level of society, are inherently unintelligent, stupid, lazy or venal. They are born normal, with the normal range of intelligence and intellectual curiosity.

 

I do however believe that the vast majority of the population are deliberately made that way by the education system, which is deliberately perpetuated by the hi-so classes for their own advantage. Brainwashing works.

Exactly!

Thai people are actually at the forefront of what awaits the other populations, especially the Western ones.

Dumbed down masses, educated by TV and fed with junk food, in order to serve a small elite.

 

[Brunolem]

16 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Interesting...………...so why does the current leader and his cronies prove your second paragraph wrong by coming out with some absolute doozeys from time to time.

 

Highly educated yes; intelligent...………..their utterings and behaviour prove otherwise, so genes at play????

Because the current leader is only a frontman...

[NoshowJones]

3 minutes ago, Grusa said:

Yes. They are not encouraged to look ahead, think ahead, or indeed at all, and are not trained to consider potential dangers or the consequences of their actions to themselves or to others. They are encouraged to put all their faith in Bhudda and karma. If they,  or some innocent bystander, are killed, maimed, or impoverished, it was meant to be and not avoidable. 

Another factor is loss of face. It is unacceptable to lose face, so no-one ever fails a test or exam, however incompetent. Just pay tea money and it all goes away. 

Yes, you talk a lot of sense here, I was a school teacher here for three years, though I was never told I must not fail any of my students exams, I do understand the Thai teachers adjusted the marks of those I did fail, in fact, quite a few of the students handed in blank sheets, and this was Mattiyom  3 and 4, that is ages around 14 years old.

[Brunolem]

26 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

I think you may have a point here, but would you say that. ie motorcyclists riding against the traffic has anything to do with the education system? Would the dreadful road fatalities have anything to do with the education system?

I am not agreeing, or disagreeing with you, but it would interesting to know your views on this.

Yes they have!

Because education is not limited to what you learn in school.

Parents play an even bigger role...but what kind of education can uneducated parents provide?

Regarding road safety, how many driving schools have you seen in Thailand (the real thing with adapted vehicles and certified teachers)?

Personally, none!

And how do they get their licence? By driving at ultra low speed on a parking!

Edited June 18, 2018 by Brunolem