Testosterone, steroids, etc.

[moe666]

On 6/19/2018 at 3:57 PM, robblok said:

That is for sure finding the right person DR or otherwise. I am not sure how long you have been in Thailand (not saying its a Thai specific problem). Try finding good handymen / construction workers even Thais have problems with that. 

 

I don't really give financial advice.. just do people their taxes and that is in general pretty straight forward. Not one of those guys that tells people to set up companies in far off countries to dodge tax. When I don't know something, i just call in an expert on that area. There is too much to know everything, best thing is sometimes admitting you need an expert with you.

Hehe yes good luck finding dependable workers anywhere, good Drs.. Unless the Dr. has made a point of studying about hormone replacement therapy they will know squat. I have a bit of a thyroid problem and saw a Dr. in the US who speacilized in Thyroid treatment as well as other less than normal medical. All I can say is the guy saved my life and as he explained it the range is so great that your uninformed Dr. will see only your blood result and not take into account low body temp., hard to wake up in the morning, very tired in afternoon, and weight gain. They explain you are ok get more sleep, eat less you thyroid range is in the low normal you are ok, as I fall asleep at his desk. My GP actually said I would have never given you that medication, I say and yess I would have been dead weighting 500lbs. never went back to see her

[moe666]

1 hour ago, WaveHunter said:

I just want to post some basics about aromatase inhibitors (specifically anastrozole) since we've been talking a lot about this and I'm thinking maybe some have misconceptions about it.

 

Most who are participating in this thread don't dispute the beneficial effects of testosterone and TRT, and those benefits are widely acknowledged in accredited landmark studies.  However, there is not much in the way of long-term studies when it comes to possible risks of TRT, and more specifically the risks associated with the use of aromatase inhibitors when used in conjunction with TRT.  Furthermore, there have not been any studies that conclusively show whether high estradiol levels after TRT are even that harmful, as strange as that might sound!

 

It's important to realize that estrogen in males is not necessarily a bad thing.  The presence of estrogen in males is actually critically important to good health.  The question is whether or not too much is a bad thing, and if so, how much is too much.  The truth is, not much work has been done to understand better the role of estrogens in men.  So, the question of whether or not AI's are good or bad for TRT are also not conclusive.

 

In TRT, estrogen levels may rise as a result of the conversion of testosterone to estrogen through aromatization.  Aromatase Inhibitors such as Anastrozole are sometimes used in TRT to reduce levels of circulating estrogen when the estradiol level (E2) is raised to a level that is considered too high.  Presently, High estradiol levels are defined as ≥42.6 pg/ml.

 

Researchers are beginning to think that serum T/E2 (testosterone : estradiol) ratio may be more important than the respective individual hormonal levels when it comes to assessing the possible negative aspects of using AI's in TRT.

 

It's important to understand that aromatase inhibitors only do one thing; they control aromatization of testosterone to estrogen; they do not directly effect lipid profiles, inflammatory markers of cardiovascular risk, insulin resistance, or negative changes in bone mineral density.  To put it another way, possible negative health effects of using aromatase inhibitors in TRT are not due to the AI's themselves, and not even to the lower levels of estrogen that result from their use, but rather to the altered T/E2 ratio they cause.

 

To simply say that AI's cause negative health consequences is false logic.  They simply change the T/E2 ratio.  If the AI brings the T/E2 ratio back into a physiological stable level, that is a most likely good thing; if the T/E2 levels is allowed to go unchecked, that will probably be a bad thing, but it is the T/E2 that dictates the health outcome, not the AI.

 

The real issue in understanding the possible negative role of estrogen in TRT is that there is simply not any long-term research findings to go by.  Almost all of the research done to date with aromatase inhibitors is in the female population since Anastrozole is actually FDA-approved for the treatment of breast cancer in women after surgery. As such, its use in men on testosterone replacement therapy is considered to be off-labeled, and therefore there is very little funding to support long-term research.

 

Randomized controlled study would be needed over several years to understand if indeed high E2 after TRT may be beneficial or harmful, and to date, no such studies have been done.  It is therefore improper to say that AI's are beneficial or harmful. 

 

At the present time, how to deal with altered T/E2 ratios that result from TRT, or even if it's necessary to deal with them is unknown.  It is debatable what the best strategy should be in the absence of actual research, but my personal take on it is to try and maintain a balanced T/E2 ratio based on physiological norms while undergoing TRT. 

 

For many men on TRT, it is a moot point because their estrogen levels are unaffected by TRT.  For those that are however, IMHO, aromatase inhibitors provide a safe means of maintaining the T/E2 ratio provided responsible dosages are used.  There is no scientific evidence to counter this.

 

Some will point to adverse effects on bone mineral density as a result of using aromatase inhibitors in TRT but this is unfounded.  Most studies that note adverse effects on bone health due to AI’s are of females treated with AIs for breast cancer with dosages of 1mg per day.  There are no recognized studies that show this to be the case in men on TRT who are using the typically prescribed doses of 0.5mg per week.  BMD is mostly reserved for females, and are not seen in males. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27784593)

 

Anyway, I'm just scratching the surface here.  I'm not trying to give you a detailed overview, just prompt you to do your own research...use Google to find truth, not YouTube ????

 

If people are worried about taking a prescription medication to reduce estrogen levels they can try zinc at around 15ml a day. You will need to experiment and have the before and after blood test but zinc is a very good aromatase inhibitor. A very fast test to see if you need zinc is to have some liquid zinc mixed with water after drinking the mixture the taste will be very strong, no zinc issue but if the taste is the same as water you need zinc.

[Destiny1990]

How about Proviron microdose as a monotherapy possible?

[mokwit]

50 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

How about Proviron microdose as a monotherapy possible?

That is basically what I am doing as an alternative to using T and shutting down my own T production.

[Destiny1990]

51 minutes ago, mokwit said:

That is basically what I am doing as an alternative to using T and shutting down my own T production.

Exactly that’s what i would like to avoid too. How long u been doing that? What dosage?

Progiron doesn’t raise T levels yet still can give wellbeing feelings.

what the positive and negative side effects did u notice of proviron Mono?

[mokwit]

I posted in detail on this or one of the other T threads. I am using 125mg - I started at 50 due to concern re shutdown and prostate enlargement. I got an effect at that dose and have taken it as high as 250mg.

[Destiny1990]

5 minutes ago, mokwit said:

I posted in detail on this or one of the other T threads. I am using 125mg - I started at 50 due to concern re shutdown and prostate enlargement. I got an effect at that dose and have taken it as high as 250mg.

Yes i think i did follow that thread but I can’t recall the details exactly.

i heard taking Proviron requires doing a lot of exercises ( fitness weights etc) and very healthy eating ?

so u taking 250 mg daily for how long? I would consider a much lower dose perhaps 25/50 mg. How is ur hair line?

No testicular shrinking correct?

[mokwit]

Yes i think i did follow that thread but I can’t recall the details exactly.

i heard taking Proviron requires doing a lot of exercises ( fitness weights etc) and very healthy eating ?

Don't see why P would require that unless you are alluding to supposed lack of muscle building effect.

so u taking 250 mg daily for how long?

Never took 250mg for more than 8-12 weeks i.we bodybuilder cycle length

I would consider a much lower dose perhaps 25/50 mg.

t50 showed effect - especially on muscle,which it supposedly should not.

How is ur hair line?

On Proviron fine - noo effect in 5 years of use, Oxandrolone may have had a significant effect on this but ,maybe I am at the age where it starts

No testicular shrinking correct?

No shrinking no sign of supression either by symptons or blood tests.

 

Re Low estrogen - there may be a risk there that it lowers it further - all the bodybuilder sites say this is a property of P but Dr Tim Lopez tells me blood work shows it does not do this in people taking it in the hope that it does. My E is HIGH - confirming what Dr T says is his experience in clinical practice.

Edited March 30, 2019 by mokwit

[Destiny1990]

3 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Yes i think i did follow that thread but I can’t recall the details exactly.

i heard taking Proviron requires doing a lot of exercises ( fitness weights etc) and very healthy eating ?

Don't see why P would require that unless you are alluding to supposed lack of muscle building effect.

so u taking 250 mg daily for how long?

Never took 250mg for more than 8-12 weeks i.we bodybuilder cycle length

I would consider a much lower dose perhaps 25/50 mg.

t50 showed effect - especially on muscle,which it supposedly should not.

How is ur hair line?

On Proviron fine - noo effect in 5 years of use, Oxandrolone may have had a significant effect on this but ,maybe I am at the age where it starts

No testicular shrinking correct?

No shrinking no sign of supression either by symptons or blood tests.

So u think P is suitable as a long term mono therapy in a low dose 25/50 mg? Instead of TRT?

Any face flushing?

yes P does do wonders for the muscles and libido i been told.

[mokwit]

8 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

So u think P is suitable as a long term mono therapy in a low dose 25/50 mg?

I do for myself and a long experienced Doctor uses it this way with patients, but as I pointed out in a post it is just one leg of a three legged stool. Some Doctors consider P inappropriate as amonotherapy because of this. In my case blood test reveled high estrogen. With an estrogen level of 12 you really need medical advice as to whether it would be appropriate for you - Testosterone might be more appropriate as it would likely increase your E levels, or maybe using P concurrent with Clomiphene as I did/do.

 

I am just giving you suggestions as to what to explore - the answer to your question in your case is way beyond my knowledge/qualifications and really needs to be addressed by a Doctor specialising in TRT/endocrinology and with many years experience. Yes I know, see 4 different doctor get 4 different diagnosis.

[Destiny1990]

1 hour ago, mokwit said:

I do for myself and a long experienced Doctor uses it this way with patients, but as I pointed out in a post it is just one leg of a three legged stool. Some Doctors consider P inappropriate as amonotherapy because of this. In my case blood test reveled high estrogen. With an estrogen level of 12 you really need medical advice as to whether it would be appropriate for you - Testosterone might be more appropriate as it would likely increase your E levels, or maybe using P concurrent with Clomiphene as I did/do.

 

I am just giving you suggestions as to what to explore - the answer to your question in your case is way beyond my knowledge/qualifications and really needs to be addressed by a Doctor specialising in TRT/endocrinology and with many years experience. Yes I know, see 4 different doctor get 4 different diagnosis.

Yes sure we just talking here and am just curious how P worked for you. Everybody their situation is slightly different and so  Your correct with my already low estrogen it might not be wise to take it but still i interested with P. I might just try it for a week but prior that i will go to a other specialist clinic that doesn’t sell any stuff and have me tested checked up again that will be indeed my 5 th clinic ????????..My last blood test did also reveal that my vitamine D level was rather low while i eat lots of fish etc but now i go more in the Sun as before I usually was avoiding all sunshine. I tried clomid once out of curiosity and gave me a big headache never tried it again..

[WaveHunter]

17 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

How about Proviron microdose as a monotherapy possible?

Proviron alone is not really that effective for TRT.  It may raise serum testosterone some if quantity are high enough, but anything that raises your serum testosterone is going to affect the Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Testicular axis (HPTA), and therefore reduce or shut down your body’s natural production of testosterone, so there’s no real advantage to using proviron instead of test, and since it is very weak compared to tes, the quantities required to raise serum test are going to be an issue.

 

While proviron on its own is considered to be a very weak steroid which alone is not ideal for TRT, it has one unique property that make it a useful and effective as part of a TRT protocol.

 

Here's the deal:  In normal levels in the body, testosterone is mostly inactive because most of it is bound by sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) and albumin. Proviron has a great affinity for SHBG, so when administered, it will bind to the SHBG, leaving more testosterone free (i.e.: raises your free-testosterone level).  

 

So, it is effective as an addition to testosterone injections but not as a replacement.  It also has slight anti-aromatizing properties (emphasis on the word “slight”).

Edited March 31, 2019 by WaveHunter

[NightSky]

I am seeing my endocrinologist this week first time after two confirmed low t tests

 

he should prescribe trt although I’m wondering how you get on if you travel out of the country for upto 6 months, is a doctors note ok to carry a 6 month supply of vials?

 

 

[WaveHunter]

18 minutes ago, NightSky said:

I am seeing my endocrinologist this week first time after two confirmed low t tests

 

he should prescribe trt although I’m wondering how you get on if you travel out of the country for upto 6 months, is a doctors note ok to carry a 6 month supply of vials?

 

 

Yes.  I travelled to USA and my Thai MD simply gave me a letter, and my pharmacist was nice enough to put a Rx label on my box of test.

 

Note: it's kind of a hassle but when traveling outside of Thailand, it's a good idea to check ALL of your meds and be sure.  You forget how many meds are available here without a Rx.  It would be a real drag to get searched by customs entering a country where these meds require an Rx, and not having one ????

 

Edited March 31, 2019 by WaveHunter

[NightSky]

I have both low e and low t

 

prinary hypogonadism I expect due to injury 

 

my t was 222 then 247 then 279 and estrogen was 18 then 22. I’m taking vitamin d for past month due to a deficiency 

 

t and e are both rising as vit d is rising but vit d is still way out of normal range

 

i went to the doctors due to a small lump on my breast area he said it is gyno hence checking testosterone.

 

i live a clean lifestyle no smoking no alcohol and good diet

 

libido is fine etc but I get other symptoms low energy loss of muscle etc

 

any ideas what I should expect from the doctor to get rid of gynosymptoms?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2019 by NightSky

[WaveHunter]

RE: BAYER TESTOVIRON DEPOT or ROTEXMEDICA:

Has anyone been able to purchase this lately, anywhere (preferably pharmacies, but hospitals too)?  I have not been able to since October 2018.  My pharmacy had a good (pharma grade) substitute at the time (RotexMedica), but now they no longer have that!  I had to purchase AlphaPharma brand this last time and I'm not too happy about that because it is an "underground" lab.  Granted, they have a excellent reputation with body builders BUT it is still not truly "pharma grade" compared to Bayer or RotexMedica.

 

It really bothers me using underground meds, so while I'd prefer to find it in Pattaya (where I live) or even BKK that would be fine.  I'll even do a road trip if necessary.  Just looking for a trusted pharmacy (or worst case, a hospital dispensary).  Let me know price you paid and brand if you can.  THX!!

Edited March 31, 2019 by WaveHunter

[mokwit]

21 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Proviron alone is not really that effective for TRT.  It may raise serum testosterone some if quantity are high enough, but anything that raises your serum testosterone is going to affect the Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Testicular axis (HPTA), and therefore reduce or shut down your body’s natural production of testosterone, so there’s no real advantage to using proviron instead of test, and since it is very weak compared to tes, the quantities required to raise serum test are going to be an issue. 

You are not wrong, but you are not completely right either IMO - its suitability depends on the T level - it is for supplentation at the margin but not for replacement of hypogonadal T levels. This view is is mine and is that of a Doctor with many years experience who says it is MADNESS to shut down T when levels are still high enough for supplementing with P at the margin is able to produce results. He is all for T when levels are really low.  I have been using it for 5 years and am holding back on using T as although I know it will give me higher total levels of serum androgen levels, my research suggest that the incremental benefit may be so small as to not be worth the extra hassle of injecting vs taking a pill - but note my T level is 640 on the Thai lab range - equivalent maybe to a level of 950 on the US 200-1200 range and my problem seeems to be more high SHBG levels for which P is indicated.

 

Libido is a DHT effect more than anything else. One bodybuilder who started on TRT doses and took T up to 1000mg/week tells methere is no comparison re effect on Libido of any dose of T. Likewise thos eon gels switching to T injections can be dissapointed becuase with gels afar greater % is converted DHT than with injections.

 

As for suppression I have not experienced it and as you can take P doses to 75-100mg without suppression you get a free lunch in terms of boosting total androgen levels - but note you won't get this if your T  is not reasonably OK.

[mokwit]

5 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

RE: BAYER TESTOVIRON DEPOT or ROTEXMEDICA:

Has anyone been able to purchase this lately, anywhere (preferably pharmacies, but hospitals too)?  I have not been able to since October 2018.  My pharmacy had a good (pharma grade) substitute at the time (RotexMedica), but now they no longer have that!  I had to purchase AlphaPharma brand this last time and I'm not too happy about that because it is an "underground" lab.  Granted, they have a excellent reputation with body builders BUT it is still not truly "pharma grade" compared to Bayer or RotexMedica.

 

I'm hesitant to purchase through a hospital just because of the hassle of having to see one of their doctors first, and also because the price will probably be much higher...or if they are also out of stock.  So, anyone know any trusted pharmacies (preferably Pattaya or even BKK)?

Bayer Testoviron back in stock at RX pharmacy next to police box at nana intersection BKK. Single 1ml/250mg vial Bt280

[WaveHunter]

33 minutes ago, mokwit said:

You are not wrong, but you are not completely right either IMO - its suitability depends on the T level - it is for supplentation at the margin but not for replacement of hypogonadal T levels. This view is is mine and is that of a Doctor with many years experience who says it is MADNESS to shut down T when levels are still high enough for supplementing with P at the margin is able to produce results. He is all for T when levels are really low.  I have been using it for 5 years and am holding back on using T as although I know it will give me higher total levels of serum androgen levels, my research suggest that the incremental benefit may be so small as to not be worth the extra hassle of injecting vs taking a pill - but note my T level is 640 on the Thai lab range - equivalent maybe to a level of 950 on the US 200-1200 range and my problem seeems to be more high SHBG levels for which P is indicated.

 

Libido is a DHT effect more than anything else. One bodybuilder who started on TRT doses and took T up to 1000mg/week tells methere is no comparison re effect on Libido of any dose of T. Likewise thos eon gels switching to T injections can be dissapointed becuase with gels afar greater % is converted DHT than with injections.

 

As for suppression I have not experienced it and as you can take P doses to 75-100mg without suppression you get a free lunch in terms of boosting total androgen levels - but note you won't get this if your T  is not reasonably OK.

Just to be clear, I take proviron (25mg/day) for the reason I indicated in previous post (to help free up bound testosterone) in addition to Test (125mg per week) .  I also take zinc-picolinate.  And I take anastrozole (0.25 twice a week); that is my basic TRT protocol.

 

When it comes to TRT, how you feel as a result is the real bottom-line so if Proviron-alone does the job for you than that's a good thing, but again, anything that alters your serum testosterone level, irregardless of whether it is Test or Proviron, is going to effect your Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Testicular axis (HPTA) and thereby effect your natural production of testosterone.

 

Now for me, I'm not concerned about libido.  It was never an issue for me.  My issue was lethargy only, and since my starting serum test was under 300, the only thing that was going to fix the problem was getting up to around 900, and proviron alone was not going to do that.

 

Simply put, I have no issue with shutting down natural production of test.  I don't know why that should be such a concern as it seems to be with a lot of guys.  I mean you are on TRT for life, and the exogenous testosterone that you are injecting is providing what your body can no longer provide in sufficient quantity. 

 

Worst case scenario; you decide to quit TRT; then you go on Clomid / Nolvadex for a while to restore what natural function you had.  But my real point is, why be concerned about preserving natural production if it was so low that it failed you in the first place?

 

ON ANOTHER NOTTE:  I'm a little curious what you mean by the "Thai lab range"?  I get my blood results from a Thai lab now and the ranges seem similar to when I did them in the USA.  Attached are snapshots.  Can you explain what you mean?

 

THAI LAB

 

USA LAB

Edited March 31, 2019 by WaveHunter

[NightSky]

44 minutes ago, NightSky said:

I have both low e and low t

 

prinary hypogonadism I expect due to injury 

 

my t was 222 then 247 then 279 and estrogen was 18 then 22. I’m taking vitamin d for past month due to a deficiency 

 

t and e are both rising as vit d is rising but vit d is still way out of normal range

 

i went to the doctors due to a small lump on my breast area he said it is gyno hence checking testosterone.

 

i live a clean lifestyle no smoking no alcohol and good diet

 

libido is fine etc but I get other symptoms low energy loss of muscle etc

 

any ideas what I should expect from the doctor to get rid of gynosymptoms?

 

 

 

 

 

Should I first increase vitamin d to normal levels and try to increase t naturally? 

 

Will that reverse the gyno symptoms or should I go straight to trt?

 

im just 40’s with no kids and so preferable to maintain natural production for as long as possible but I need to reverse early signs of gyno

 

Any ideas what I should expect to be prescribed? Any thoughts appreciated.

Edited March 31, 2019 by NightSky

[mokwit]

irregardless of whether it is Test or Proviron, is going to effect your Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Testicular axis (HPTA) and thereby effect your natural production of testosterone.

 

***Yes but you can have a situation where what you gain from adding outweighs any suppression from that dose - in this case Proviron - there is seemingly a sweet spot

 

Now for me, I'm not concerned about libido.  It was never an issue for me.  My issue was lethargy only, and since my starting serum test was under 300, the only thing that was going to fix the problem was getting up to around 900, and proviron alone was not going to do that.

 

*** No it wouldn't T is indicated in your case IMO. My level is 640

 

Simply put, I have no issue with shutting down natural production of test.  I don;t know why that should be such a concern as it seems to be with a lot of guys.  I mean you are on TRT for life.  Worst case scenario; you decide to quit TRT; then you go on Clomid / Nolvadex for a while to restore what natural function you had.  But my real point is, why be concerned about preserving natural production if it was so low that it failed you in the first place?

 

*****The older you are and the longer you do TRT for the less certain a viable restart is. Secondly my observation is that up to maybe age 46-48 T seems to fairly reliably resolve symptons of hypogonadism but beyond that age it seems less certain it will, even though the symptons are the same on paper (you seem to be an exception but I note no libido issues) . I could shut down my T and find I am no better off than I was on Proviron but if my T does not restart I am stuck injecting for the rest of my life to get what I already had. I seem to have got sufficient benefits as expected from P and I am not sure how much incremental benefit I would get with T. This is my situation/dilemma - if I thought T would dramatically improve me over what I have I would accept shut down and T for life as worth it.

 

ON ANOTHER NOTTE:  I'm a little curious what you mean by the "Thai lab range"?  I get my blood results from a Thai lab now and the ranges seem similar to when I did them in the USA.  Attached are snapshots.  Can you explain what you mean?

 

******Normally when I see US people talking about ranges they are quoting 200/300-1200/1300 ranges. Range varies with lab or to be more precise which supplier they buy reagent kit from Your US range seems almost identical with Thai range so I guess they are buying fromthe same supplier.

 

Someone quoting 900 as his level in US could be in range if 200-1200 or outlier if reagent kit was from 250-827 supplier.

Edited March 31, 2019 by mokwit

[WaveHunter]

12 minutes ago, NightSky said:

Should I first increase vitamin d to normal levels and try to increase t naturally? 

 

Will that reverse the gyno symptoms or should I go straight to trt?

 

im just 40’s with no kids and so preferable to maintain natural production for as long as possible but I need to reverse early signs of gyno

 

Any ideas what I should expect to be prescribed? Any thoughts appreciated.

I don't think any of us are really qualified to advise.  There are many medical factors to consider when it comes to gyno symptoms you described, and it's best for a specialist to diagnose precisely what's going on first before deciding on a course of action. 

 

I'm not saying that i think you have anything to worry about.  Gyno is far more prevalent in the general male population than most people realize, and more often than not, it is simply a cosmetic concern.

 

All that I'm saying is that a prudent first step is diagnosing the problem through analysis of pertinent blood tests and physical examination by a qualified doctor that you feel confident in.

 

Like I sad before, TRUST is the most important part.  If you do not feel 100% confident in your present doctor, then you should find another one.

Edited March 31, 2019 by WaveHunter

[WaveHunter]

Just wanted to add another comment about anti-aromatase inhibitors since it seems to be such a controversial topic on this thread.  Here is an official statement from the Endocrine Society’s Clinical Practice Guidelines for Testosterone Therapy in Adult Men with low testosterone.

 

The Endocrine Society does not recommend for or against any treatments that lower estradiol levels. Also, there is currently a lack of guidelines as to the critical level whereby intervention is needed to treat high levels.

 

Notwithstanding the foregoing, some physicians do treat men on TRT with high estradiol levels by co-administering anastrozole (brand name Arimidex) with TRT at 0.25 mg per day or 0.5 mg every other day. Anastrozole is an aromatase-inhibiting drug that comes in the form of a pill and is taken orally. It inhibits the ability of the aromatase enzyme to convert testosterone to estrogen. Thus, it lowers the level of circulating estradiol quite effectively.

 

Anastrozole is actually FDA-approved for the treatment of breast cancer in women after surgery. As such, its use in men on testosterone replacement therapy is considered to be off-labeled.

 

Take this "official" on-the-fence stance as you will. 

 

And as for my own use (as recommended by my doctor), I use anastrozole at 0.25 mg, twice per week)

Edited March 31, 2019 by WaveHunter

[WaveHunter]

1 hour ago, mokwit said:

Bayer Testoviron back in stock at RX pharmacy next to police box at nana intersection BKK. Single 1ml/250mg vial Bt280

Do u have personal experience with this pharmacy? Trusted it’s not fake?

[mokwit]

1 minute ago, WaveHunter said:

Do u have personal experience with this pharmacy? Trusted it’s not fake?

Yes. They are official Bayer supplied pharmacy (Bayer gave me name). During the shortage period they were offering me Turkish Proviron which while likely genuine could have been 'grey market' i.e. not officially imported by Bayer. I note that Brazil produced Provironum is back in stock and I have previously verified this as genuine with Bayer - I suspect the Testoviron back in stock is likely official Bayer. The Pakistani Bayer Testoviron available during the shortage I suspect was grey market and can be faked as possibly can be Turkish Primobolan available here so maybe also Turkish T?

 

Try also South East Pharmacy just past soi 15 and almost directly across the road is Pharmacy that sells Thai T Cyprionate (but more expensive for P than other two which are cheapest)

[WaveHunter]

12 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Yes. They are official Bayer supplied pharmacy (Bayer gave me name). During the shortage period they were offering me Turkish Proviron which while likely genuine could have been 'grey market' i.e. not officially imported by Bayer. I note that Brazil produced Provironum is back in stock and I have previously verified this as genuine with Bayer - I suspect the Testoviron back in stock is likely official Bayer. The Pakistani Bayer Testoviron available during the shortage I suspect was grey market and can be faked as possibly can be Turkish Primobolan available here so maybe also Turkish T?

 

Try also South East Pharmacy just past soi 15 and almost directly across the road is Pharmacy that sells Thai T Cyprionate (but more expensive for P than other two which are cheapest)

I am familiar with South East Pharmacy but they were one of the ones that have been out of bayer for months.  There are several "RX pharmacy" on Google Maps.  Is the one you are talking about the one highlighted on attached map (fairly closer to SouthEast)?

 

 

Edited March 31, 2019 by WaveHunter

[mokwit]

Wal towards Nana from south East and it is over the other side of the road just before the Nan crossroads and the police box. I bought Bayer Proviron at South East 2 days ago and they confirmed it was new stock ie back in stock. possibly they are also back in stock of Testoviron if RX have it.

[WaveHunter]

6 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Wal towards Nana from south East and it is over the other side of the road just before the Nan crossroads and the police box. I bought Bayer Proviron at South East 2 days ago and they confirmed it was new stock ie back in stock. possibly they are also back in stock of Testoviron if RX have it.

Im not that familiar with Bangkok which is why I posted the marked map and store description.  Does the location look correct?  Does the description of their store look correct?

Edited March 31, 2019 by WaveHunter

[WaveHunter]

25 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Yes. They are official Bayer supplied pharmacy (Bayer gave me name). During the shortage period they were offering me Turkish Proviron which while likely genuine could have been 'grey market' i.e. not officially imported by Bayer. I note that Brazil produced Provironum is back in stock and I have previously verified this as genuine with Bayer - I suspect the Testoviron back in stock is likely official Bayer. The Pakistani Bayer Testoviron available during the shortage I suspect was grey market and can be faked as possibly can be Turkish Primobolan available here so maybe also Turkish T?

 

Try also South East Pharmacy just past soi 15 and almost directly across the road is Pharmacy that sells Thai T Cyprionate (but more expensive for P than other two which are cheapest)

BTW, I just realized that Bayer actually has a distribution company in Thailand.  I never realized that.  See attached picture.

 

Also, Bayer is manufactured in multiple countries so even if it is from Turkey or Pakistan, that doesn't necessarily mean it is fake or grey market (see attached samples).  In fact, from what I've heard, due to the low cost of Testosterone it is rarely faked.  Of course, here in Thailand anything is possible LOL.

Edited March 31, 2019 by WaveHunter

[mokwit]

Yes that is the one.