2 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Sure, they could outlaw separating children from their parents. Considering how craven the Republicans behave towards Trump, exactly how likely is that?

 

My point is, Congress is the political body that legislates but they seem to get a free pass here. Congress owes a lot to Trump for being the sacrificial zinc anode on this rudderless ship of state.

"trump"'s little HOSTAGES.

Small like the level of his honesty, decency, and integrity. 

He has not only degraded the presidency, he's degrading the entire nation. 

 

Quote

 

NEW YORK TIMES The president likes tough language. Let’s use it for what he’s doing with immigrant children.

...

He and other presidents, both Republicans and Democrats, saw America as a beacon. They trafficked in inspiration. Trump traffics in fear. That’s where the hostages come in. If they’re young and innocent, so be it. That only ratchets up their utility.

 

 

 

http://www.paywallnews.com/life/Opinion-|-Donald-Trump’s-Small-Hostages.BJpmbKiG38bQ.html

7 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

 

My point is, Congress is the political body that legislates but they seem to get a free pass here. Congress owes a lot to Trump for being the sacrificial zinc anode on this rudderless ship of state.

No, I think the "point" you're trying to make is that it's all of Congress' fault. As though Republicans and Democrats are equally at fault. The Republicans are in the majority and they have cravenly surrendered to Trump.

1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

No, I think the "point" you're trying to make is that it's all of Congress' fault. As though Republicans and Democrats are equally at fault. The Republicans are in the majority and they have cravenly surrendered to Trump.

At the end of the day it is the Republicans in Congress that are responsible if it is a simple majority that is sufficient to change the law.

The cages of political correctness.

 

http://www.paywallnews.com/life/Opinion-%7C-Look-who’s-politically-correct-now.B1WwwlxwbX.html

 

"The pro-Trump right has weaponized “political correctness” to mean they get to say whatever they want, and those who disagree with them don’t. We’ve seen the first side of that equation plenty of times, and now, with the “cages” controversy, we’re treated to a crystal-clear example of the second."

 

 

 

 

 

Trump administration funds Texas contractor Southwest Key with $458 million to care for migrant kids

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny-news-trump-admin-southwest-key-grant-migrant-children-20180619-story.html

 

Seems odd that DHS Secretary Nielsen doesn't know where the toddlers and girls are "being kept"? "I'll get back to you on that."

 

The buck must stop somewhere else?

19 hours ago, atyclb said:

 

 

i responded to;

 

 " 7 hours ago, billd766 said:

What Trump and many people here seem to forget or simply ignore is that over 90% of ALL  Americans are the children, grandchildren and great grandchildren of immigrants."

 

since i am grandchildren of immigrants i perceived relevance.   much of the debate over illegal immigration is about why those entering illegally simply dont do it legally?  or are illegal immigrants more privileged than those legal?

 

 

Yes , good point, there is neglect by many to address this.

3 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

 

Trump administration funds Texas contractor Southwest Key with $458 million to care for migrant kids

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny-news-trump-admin-southwest-key-grant-migrant-children-20180619-story.html

 

Seems odd that DHS Secretary Nielsen doesn't know where the toddlers and girls are "being kept"? "I'll get back to you on that."

 

The buck must stop somewhere else?

The Government Has No Plan for Reuniting the Immigrant Families It Is Tearing Apart

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-government-has-no-plan-for-reuniting-the-immigrant-families-it-is-tearing-apart

22 hours ago, atyclb said:

 

 

i responded to;

 

 " 7 hours ago, billd766 said:

What Trump and many people here seem to forget or simply ignore is that over 90% of ALL  Americans are the children, grandchildren and great grandchildren of immigrants."

 

since i am grandchildren of immigrants i perceived relevance.   much of the debate over illegal immigration is about why those entering illegally simply dont do it legally?  or are illegal immigrants more privileged than those legal?

 

 

 

If you think about it ALL of the very early immigrants to the USA were actually illegals. The country was populated by American Indians who had no way to stop immigrants other than by killing them if they found any.

 

It wasn't more than a couple of hundred years ago that laws on immigration were actually brought in. Before that people used to arrive by ship, stagecoach, wagon, horse and even walking and took over a piece of land.

 

Didn't large parts of Texas belong to Mexico at one time?

 

Do you think that during the gold rush there was any immigration control? 

3 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

If you think about it ALL of the very early immigrants to the USA were actually illegals. The country was populated by American Indians who had no way to stop immigrants other than by killing them if they found any.

 

It wasn't more than a couple of hundred years ago that laws on immigration were actually brought in. Before that people used to arrive by ship, stagecoach, wagon, horse and even walking and took over a piece of land.

 

Didn't large parts of Texas belong to Mexico at one time?

 

Do you think that during the gold rush there was any immigration control? 

 

 

valid points although i was referring to my grandparents.

 

just make california part of mexico and not the usa.

55 minutes ago, atyclb said:

 

 

valid points although i was referring to my grandparents.

 

just make california part of mexico and not the usa.

"Even more interesting, if California were inserted into the world ranking by GDP according to country, it would come sixth – ahead of France, India, Italy and Brazil. "

Given the decline in the UK's ranking, I think now it would be in fifth place.

If there is any one still supporting this administration   same on them!

I am sure they were never parents, and of they are i feel sorry for their children -

Trumps retreated from this disgusting policy of his

 

Migrant children: Trump speaks of plan to halt separations http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44552852

 

Wish I could believe he will learn from this debacle, but he won’t. 

Look what happens when you give your babies to Trump

   

12 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

 

Trump administration funds Texas contractor Southwest Key with $458 million to care for migrant kids

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny-news-trump-admin-southwest-key-grant-migrant-children-20180619-story.html

 

Seems odd that DHS Secretary Nielsen doesn't know where the toddlers and girls are "being kept"? "I'll get back to you on that."

 

The buck must stop somewhere else?

 

It does seem odd, as it has been going on for many years.

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/zero-tolerance-border-crisis-immigration-trump-obama-detention-centers-2018-6

 

Quote

"To convince them not to flee, you must convince them a worse fate awaits at the end of the journey."

 

5 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

 

It does seem odd, as it has been going on for many years.

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/zero-tolerance-border-crisis-immigration-trump-obama-detention-centers-2018-6

 

 

But but but...

3 minutes ago, stevenl said:

But but but...

No, it's not a "but", it's an "and". It's just a new twist on an existing policy of:

 

Quote

 "To convince them not to flee, you must convince them a worse fate awaits at the end of the journey."

 

I think the main difference is that Trump seems to relish the contempt hurled at him that comes with these kinds of policies. Obama, not so much. 

38 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

No, it's not a "but", it's an "and". It's just a new twist on an existing policy of:

 

 

I think the main difference is that Trump seems to relish the contempt hurled at him that comes with these kinds of policies. Obama, not so much. 

I think the main difference is Trump is the President it is he who ordered the separations.

 

Absolutely nothing to do with Obama.

 

 

And to remind you, the Republicans  control both houses, it is the Republicans that have stood by and allowed Trump to commit these abuses.

8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I think the main difference is Trump is the President it is he who ordered the separations.

 

Absolutely nothing to do with Obama.

 

 

And to remind you, the Republicans  control both houses, it is the Republicans that have stood by and allowed Trump to commit these abuses.

No question, it's horrible. I'm glad people are finally looking at it. I wonder if they'll stop looking at it when the separations end and deportations rise to previous levels? Hopefully not.

19 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

No question, it's horrible. I'm glad people are finally looking at it. I wonder if they'll stop looking at it when the separations end and deportations rise to previous levels? Hopefully not.

Mid Terms!

7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Mid Terms!

In the mid terms people will have the chance to vote for the party that created the current policy or the party that is currently implementing it. Is there a third party you had in mind?

25 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

In the mid terms people will have the chance to vote for the party that created the current policy or the party that is currently implementing it. Is there a third party you had in mind?

Once again utter lies.

 

You were lecturing earlier this week on the separation  of powers, now it becomes clear you have no idea what the difference is between ‘law’ and ‘policy’.

 

The statute books are full of laws that if applied in a black and white interpretation via an abusive policy provide the legal basis for abuse. It’s why the courts interpret law and rule on its application.

 

Trump enacted the abusive policies that lead to the forced separation of children from their parents and the caging of those children in concentration camps.

 

He did so with the backing of Republican majorities in both houses.

 

Not Clinton, not Obama, not Democrats.

 

——

 

And here’s a thing:

 

Nit just Trump and the Republicans, also with the support of people like yourself.

 

Oh you’ve said it’s horrible, you’ve said it’s not right but in page after page of comments in every thread discussing this issue you’ve made excuses, offered whataboutary, tried to blame everyone except Trump and the Republicans who enacted these abusive policies.

 

You are sir an enabler of the abuses.

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Once again utter lies.

 

You were lecturing earlier this week on the deprecation of powers, now it becomes clear you have no idea what the difference is between ‘law’ and ‘policy’.

 

The statute books are full of laws that if applied in a black and white interpretation via an abusive policy provide the legal basis for abuse. It’s why the courts interpret law and rule on its application.

 

Trump enacted the abusive policies that lead to the forced separation of children from their parents and the caging of those children in concentration camps.

 

He did so with the backing of Republican majorities in both houses.

 

Not Clinton, not Obama, not Democrats.

 

——

 

And here’s a thing:

 

Nit just Trump and the Republicans, also with the support of people like yourself.

 

Oh you’ve said it’s horrible, you’ve said it’s not right but in page after page of comments in every thread discussing this issue you’ve made excuses, offered whataboutary, tried to blame everyone except Trump and the Republicans who enacted these abusive policies.

 

You are sir an enabler of the abuses.

 

That's bullshit. Policy gives some lattitude as to how a law is enforced. If in exercising that lattitude the Executive branch either fails to enforce the spirit of the law or over reaches in fashion that makes enforcement something the law never intended, then a court injunction would appear so fast it would make your head spin.  Where's the court injunction, either from the previous policy to show leniency or the current policy to show none?  Where is it?

 

Being the President of the United States is a damn hard job if done right. You have to make horrible choices no one would wish to make, and you're going to be abused whichever thing you choose. That's the job description. If you coast in the job and want to be everyone's best frind then problems are going to build up that sooner or later create a worse situation than the one you refused to deal with.. Or you can be a draconian a-hole who doesn't see a problem that taking a hatchet to it wouldn't fix.  Neither is a good approach.

 

I've posted a ton of stuff here that shows that the current policy, bar separation is EXACTLY the same as we've had all along, and that deportations are in fact MUCH LESS than we had in the last presidency. This is all an exercise in deterrance and it is ugly as can be and corporations are feasting on it and no one has a clue what to do about it.

4 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

That's bullshit. Policy gives some lattitude as to how a law is enforced. If in exercising that lattitude the Executive branch either fails to enforce the spirit of the law or over reaches in fashion that makes enforcement something the law never intended, then a court injunction would appear so fast it would make your head spin.  Where's the court injunction, either from the previous policy to show leniency or the current policy to show none?  Where is it?

 

Being the President of the United States is a damn hard job if done right. You have to make horrible choices no one would wish to make, and you're going to be abused whichever thing you choose. That's the job description. If you coast in the job and want to be everyone's best frind then problems are going to build up that sooner or later create a worse situation than the one you refused to deal with.. Or you can be a draconian a-hole who doesn't see a problem that taking a hatchet to it wouldn't fix.  Neither is a good approach.

 

I've posted a ton of stuff here that shows that the current policy, bar separation is EXACTLY the same as we've had all along, and that deportations are in fact MUCH LESS than we had in the last presidency. This is all an exercise in deterrance and it is ugly as can be and corporations are feasting on it and no one has a clue what to do about it.

I agree with you on one point and one point only:

 

”Being the President of the United States is a damn hard job if done right.”

 

Trump isn’t making an attempt at doing a good job.

 

He relishes choices with horrible consequences for others.

 

And his supporters pour out their excuses for the abuses he orders.

Who doesn't love Sassy Trump, with his Immigration Preamble at the Space Force announcement...

 

 

50 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

In the mid terms people will have the chance to vote for the party that created the current policy or the party that is currently implementing it. Is there a third party you had in mind?

So which party created the current policy and which party implemented the current policy?

28 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I agree with you on one point and one point only:

 

”Being the President of the United States is a damn hard job if done right.”

 

Trump isn’t making an attempt at doing a good job.

 

He relishes choices with horrible consequences for others.

 

And his supporters pour out their excuses for the abuses he orders.

 

Right, right and right.

 

Don't make the mistake of thinking I am one of his supporters or that I excuse his abuses.

 

You seem to have just woken up to the abuses our presidents and Congresses have inflicted on the lives of the world's innocents.

 

Better late than never.

It's truly amazing that our government is transporting children as young as 5 months old from the southern border to far away places like Michigan and New York City.

 

There's word for this but I just can't put my finger on it? How is that even legal?

 

There are so many agencies involved: ICE, CPB, DHS, HHS, U.S. Marshalls, Local LEO with everyone saying "they're just following orders".

 

And hastily erecting tent cities in locations where the local temperature hits 40+ C. What could go wrong?

 

Why are the authorities trying to hide what's going on? OK, I know the answer to that one, they're embarrassed and know what will happen if more images get out.

 

If Bloatus thinks he's solved this problem with his 2-minute signature he's in for a huge surprise.

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, lannarebirth said:

No question, it's horrible. I'm glad people are finally looking at it. I wonder if they'll stop looking at it when the separations end and deportations rise to previous levels? Hopefully not.

 

I think it's absolutely fine.

 

When criminals go to jail, it is normal for their kids to go into care if there's no family member to take care of them. Where's the outrage there?

 

People make a conscious decision to cross the border illegally. If you don't separate them, what do you do? Allow a child to be a free passport into the USA? 

 

If so - you really do need to think through the consequences of that happening because it's a damn sight worse than the kids being in care.

29 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So which party created the current policy and which party implemented the current policy?

 

Obama by Executive Order sought to give work permits to millions of illegals living in the US. In order to show his evenhandedness he was going to crack down even harder and deport any illegals seen as criminal. That opened the door for now labeling illegal border crossers as criminals.  All because the really difficult task of crafting law was circumvented. That's no way to run a government and it ALWAYS, ALWAYS leads to unimtended consequences.