Punishment for students

[scorecard]

On 7/1/2018 at 11:37 PM, SlyAnimal said:

This tactic can work, but you have to be very careful with it imo.

As you need to always be their teacher, not their friend.  You can be the cool teacher, but you must still be the teacher, and they must respect you.  They should always be laughing with you, not at you.

I've seen this happen with a few teachers over the years, where they haven't had their contracts renewed despite being "liked" by the students, or at least they absolutely believed so anyway.  Some of the teachers might have also lost some of their respect as teachers within the community via their actions outside of school hours as well, due to frequently drinking in public (It's a small town, and Thai people love gossip, so everyone knows what you've been upto).

But that line between being liked and being respected is a tough one, sometimes I worry about things I do in class which are flirting with that line a little, although I figure so long as I only occasionally flirt with the line it won't erode the respect my students have for me.

re your last paragraph I'll share the following:

- University Bachelor class - "Bachelor of Arts in English in Business' (accepted by the Thai Ministry of Ed.)

- Students Thai and international students 

- Gender: approx 50% male and female.

- Lecturer: American, male, had all personal qualifications in English language teaching cancelled some years ago by a recognized US authority, barred from re-sitting the exams for such qualifications. Officially banned from lecturing in many US states. 

Bottom line: Actual course results for many courses over many years:

     - All Female students Grade is A

     - No male students get an A

        About 20% of all male students get a B+

        About 20% of all male students get a B

        About 50% of all male students get C+, C, D+

        About 10% of all male students get Fail grade 

 

- Scoring: announced in detail at first class by the above teacher. Including: In class exercises, 1 hr hand in quiz, half day small team (max 2 students) case studies, Mid and final term exams.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[scorecard]

On 6/21/2018 at 12:54 PM, joninisaan said:

I have a classroom management plan I drew up myself but was just looking at alternatives for when certain students break rules repeatedly and my punishments are of little concern to the student and don't want to use corporal punishment.

I know things will never change here in Thailand as to why I was looking for alternative punishments other foreign teachers use.

 

Final grade will be calculated using published criteria then actual grade reduced by:

- one full grade

- 1.5 grades

- two grades.

 

[Callmeishmael]

A few years ago all of the P6 homeroom teachers decided to start collecting the student's cell phones every morning and returning them after the last class of the day.  This proved to be a success and the practice spread to other grades. 

 

This year the school simply announced a no-phones policy and told the parents before the year began.  It hasn't interfered with teaching at all and has made everyone's life much easier.  If the parents need to contact a student urgently, they can call the Thai Homeroom teacher's Line, but as far as I know, not one parent has really needed to do so.

[BusNo8]

On 6/19/2018 at 12:01 PM, joninisaan said:

I would like to know what sort of punishments other teachers here in Thailand hand out to students who break rules in their class. I'm referring to after a student or students

have been warned and repeatedly broke a certain rule. I just want some ideas on what kind of punishment we can give students here in Thailand, preferably mathayom level students as I teach in a Mathayom school. 

 

Thanks in advance

 

I stopped punishing students after my second year teaching.

 

Have you considered your lessons are dull and lack relevance to your students?

 

Is it the room level? Anything above /8 prolly gonna have issues.

 

Change schools. Of the 2500 students I'd taught I'd say it was a lovely experience aside from the administrations and lazy teachers

[BusNo8]

18 hours ago, Callmeishmael said:

A few years ago all of the P6 homeroom teachers decided to start collecting the student's cell phones every morning and returning them after the last class of the day.  This proved to be a success and the practice spread to other grades. 

 

This year the school simply announced a no-phones policy and told the parents before the year began.  It hasn't interfered with teaching at all and has made everyone's life much easier.  If the parents need to contact a student urgently, they can call the Thai Homeroom teacher's Line, but as far as I know, not one parent has really needed to do so.

 

A dinosaur policy for students in high school. I can see it for prathom and possibly middle school.

 

Instead of it being a social media device make it an educational device 😉😁

[BusNo8]

On 6/21/2018 at 1:58 PM, scorecard said:

there's a range of private schools, some are genuine and good quality, some are money machines etc.

 

They are all money machines. Only top level international schools offer any modicum of education. Just a clearinghouse for very average adults to waste students time and gain a paycheck in the process. Really smart students, wishing to do something with their lives use tutors.

[scorecard]

4 minutes ago, BusNo8 said:

 

A dinosaur policy for students in high school. I can see it for prathom and possibly middle school.

 

Instead of it being a social media device make it an educational device 😉😁

 for years 1 and 2 of uni bachelor courses best to have some variety in teaching methods / student actions in the learning process.

 

I always toto bring their smartphone or tablet to class but must be turned off (devise rings and student punished). I also mentioned 'If you don't have a smartphone or tablet tell me privately in the break and you can borrow one from me.'

 

I would do and introduction to a new subject then split the class into small teams 2 or 3 (never more than 3) and tell them to research the subject on line and write down any further points you find (this is called 'project based learning') and later i would ask each team to share what they has discovered and I kept records (get a mention in my notes several times and you can get one heal higher grade ( (B+ instead of B etc.). this is time consuming but It works.

[scorecard]

11 minutes ago, BusNo8 said:

 

They are all money machines. Only top level international schools offer any modicum of education. Just a clearinghouse for very average adults to waste students time and gain a paycheck in the process. Really smart students, wishing to do something with their lives use tutors.

 

But how good / how knowledgeable is the tutor?

 

E.g. When I was lecturing MBA classes I had a 40 year old American man approach me (never seen before)  and ask 'can you explain 'sustainability'. He shared the student he was tutoring has asked him to explain this subject. I asked for more information and he insisted 'there is no further information'.

 

I shared 'sustainability' can mean several things but in a typical MBA course it would probably mean 'what should a business owner do to ensure good revenues and margins, growth and innovation continue for many years?' (Actually an important subject.)

 

I shared this with the tutor'. He shared 'that's not possible'. 

 

I responded 'then how come hundreds of big corporations, world wide, continue with good revenues / margins, growth,innovations etc., for many decades? The tutor responded 'that's just good luck!' 

 

I asked the tutor 'does your student have a text book?'. Answer 'Yes but text books are a waste of money'.

 

I declined to continue the conversation.  

 

[BusNo8]

9 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

But how good / how knowledgeable is the tutor?

 

E.g. When I was lecturing MBA classes I had a 40 year old American man approach me (never seen before)  and ask 'can you explain 'sustainability'. He shared the student he was tutoring has asked him to explain this subject. I asked for more information and he insisted 'there is no further information'.

 

I shared 'sustainability' can mean several things but in a typical MBA course it would probably mean 'what should a business owner do to ensure good revenues and margins, growth and innovation continue for many years?' (Actually an important subject.)

 

I shared this with the tutor'. He shared 'that's not possible'. 

 

I responded 'then how come hundreds of big corporations, world wide, continue with good revenues / margins, growth,innovations etc., for many decades? The tutor responded 'that's just good luck!' 

 

I asked the tutor 'does your student have a text book?'. Answer 'Yes but text books are a waste of money'.

 

I declined to continue the conversation.  

 

 

I agree. Textbooks are a waste of money if you have a confident teacher that knows what the hell they are instructing students to learn.

 

As you work in University I'll just relate this back to university. While I was in university the books were always supplemental reading to enrich the lectures.

 

EFL textbooks are to keep the new, lazy and or incompetent teachers on track. Open book, present a b c then have students follow up during the exercises. Hopefully something is learned in that process

 

Tutors at least better than the teachers. Usually Masters degrees smart enough not to teach.

 

Unfortunately that's the best that Thailand has to offer.

 

It's criminal what most EFL teachers get away with in Thai classrooms.

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, BusNo8 said:

 

I agree. Textbooks are a waste of money if you have a confident teacher that knows what the hell they are instructing students to learn.

 

As you work in University I'll just relate this back to university. While I was in university the books were always supplemental reading to enrich the lectures.

 

EFL textbooks are to keep the new, lazy and or incompetent teachers on track. Open book, present a b c then have students follow up during the exercises. Hopefully something is learned in that process

 

Tutors at least better than the teachers. Usually Masters degrees smart enough not to teach.

 

Unfortunately that's the best that Thailand has to offer.

 

It's criminal what most EFL teachers get away with in Thai classrooms.

 

OK but best for the students to have some introduction to each subject. I always:

- Do a verbal perhaps 15 minute introduction to the subject and ask for questions.

- Then read the quick intro to the subject (or get a student to read it) then tell the students there's a whole lot more to read and understand in the same textbook.

- Then revert to more verbal explanation including pushing the students to ask questions.

- Then perhaps small team exercise and students present their findings.

 

- I would agree some texts are better than others. Many universities insist there must be a textbook for each course, usually nominated by the professor teaching the course.

 

- I'm aware of one uni (satellite of a small American Uni) in LOS which has strict rules:

     - Professor must use only the materials / content / text in the textbook.

     - Professor cannot add further comments.

     - Professor cannot share personal experiences on this subject.

     - Mid-term / final exams must be based on the text in the textbook, student expected           to repeat words / phrases / sentences verbatim. Student repeats verbatim gets an A.

 

I have never taught at this uni and I never will. 

 

I QUOTE:

" Tutors at least better than the teachers. Usually Masters degrees smart enough not to teach. But how does that work in your 'world'. Every student has a Tutor? All tutors 

          employed directly by the university? Are there standard mid-term and end of term

          exams? How do the students know how they should prepare for the exams? Who

          writes the exams? 

 

Unfortunately that's the best that Thailand has to offer.

 

It's criminal what most EFL teachers get away with in Thai classrooms. 

           I would agree, however fortunately that's changing in many schools. My two oldest

          Thai grandkids went to better bi-lingual schools, these schools did the hard work to

          find properly trained / qualified teachers. Mostly from England and fairly young but

          nicely experienced.

          My Thais went to school in SIngapore and was lucky to experience very good

          teachers and teaching methods and this gave him a basis on which to judge the

          teachers employed in Thai schools and be more focused on selecting schools for his

          kids. 

 

[BusNo8]

16 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

OK but best for the students to have some introduction to each subject. I always:

- Do a verbal perhaps 15 minute introduction to the subject and ask for questions.

- Then read the quick intro to the subject (or get a student to read it) then tell the students there's a whole lot more to read and understand in the same textbook.

- Then revert to more verbal explanation including pushing the students to ask questions.

- Then perhaps small team exercise and students present their findings.

 

- I would agree some texts are better than others. Many universities insist there must be a textbook for each course, usually nominated by the professor teaching the course.

 

- I'm aware of one uni (satellite of a small American Uni) in LOS which has strict rules:

     - Professor must use only the materials / content / text in the textbook.

     - Professor cannot add further comments.

     - Professor cannot share personal experiences on this subject.

     - Mid-term / final exams must be based on the text in the textbook, student expected           to repeat words / phrases / sentences verbatim. Student repeats verbatim gets an A.

 

I have never taught at this uni and I never will. 

 

I QUOTE:

" Tutors at least better than the teachers. Usually Masters degrees smart enough not to teach. But how does that work in your 'world'. Every student has a Tutor? All tutors 

          employed directly by the university? Are there standard mid-term and end of term

          exams? How do the students know how they should prepare for the exams? Who

          writes the exams? 

 

Unfortunately that's the best that Thailand has to offer.

 

It's criminal what most EFL teachers get away with in Thai classrooms. 

           I would agree, however fortunately that's changing in many schools. My two oldest

          Thai grandkids went to better bi-lingual schools, these schools did the hard work to

          find properly trained / qualified teachers. Mostly from England and fairly young but

          nicely experienced.

          My Thais went to school in SIngapore and was lucky to experience very good

          teachers and teaching methods and this gave him a basis on which to judge the

          teachers employed in Thai schools and be more focused on selecting schools for his

          kids. 

 

 

I'm not at all disagreeing with you or questioning your soundness as a teacher. You appear mindful, caring and apparently give af unlike 90% of *teachers* in this country.

 

I'm now convinced that the foreign warm bodies are there merely to fill a void - a block of time. English programs have grown not for the students but the schools and government as both simply do not have enough teachers let alone quality teachers. There's also the aspect that upper administration only really cares about paycheck and addl *benefits*, perks.

 

Most foreign teachers treat their school as second job. A place to kill time, get a visa and some pocket money. They are not invested in Thailand farther than that.

[scorecard]

5 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

OK but best for the students to have some introduction to each subject. I always:

- Do a verbal perhaps 15 minute introduction to the subject and ask for questions.

- Then read the quick intro to the subject (or get a student to read it) then tell the students there's a whole lot more to read and understand in the same textbook.

- Then revert to more verbal explanation including pushing the students to ask questions.

- Then perhaps small team exercise and students present their findings.

 

- I would agree some texts are better than others. Many universities insist there must be a textbook for each course, usually nominated by the professor teaching the course.

 

- I'm aware of one uni (satellite of a small American Uni) in LOS which has strict rules:

     - Professor must use only the materials / content / text in the textbook.

     - Professor cannot add further comments.

     - Professor cannot share personal experiences on this subject.

     - Mid-term / final exams must be based on the text in the textbook, student expected           to repeat words / phrases / sentences verbatim. Student repeats verbatim gets an A.

 

I have never taught at this uni and I never will. 

 

I QUOTE:

" Tutors at least better than the teachers. Usually Masters degrees smart enough not to teach. But how does that work in your 'world'. Every student has a Tutor? All tutors 

          employed directly by the university? Are there standard mid-term and end of term

          exams? How do the students know how they should prepare for the exams? Who

          writes the exams? 

 

Unfortunately that's the best that Thailand has to offer.

 

It's criminal what most EFL teachers get away with in Thai classrooms. 

           I would agree, however fortunately that's changing in many schools. My two oldest

          Thai grandkids went to better bi-lingual schools, these schools did the hard work to

          find properly trained / qualified teachers. Mostly from England and fairly young but

          nicely experienced.

          My Thais went to school in SIngapore and was lucky to experience very good

          teachers and teaching methods and this gave him a basis on which to judge the

          teachers employed in Thai schools and be more focused on selecting schools for his

          kids. 

 

Correction; last para above ... should read  My Thai son went to school in Singapore ...

[SlyAnimal]

On 6/3/2024 at 6:25 AM, scorecard said:

re your last paragraph I'll share the following:

- University Bachelor class - "Bachelor of Arts in English in Business' (accepted by the Thai Ministry of Ed.)

- Students Thai and international students 

- Gender: approx 50% male and female.

- Lecturer: American, male, had all personal qualifications in English language teaching cancelled some years ago by a recognized US authority, barred from re-sitting the exams for such qualifications. Officially banned from lecturing in many US states. 

Bottom line: Actual course results for many courses over many years:

     - All Female students Grade is A

     - No male students get an A

        About 20% of all male students get a B+

        About 20% of all male students get a B

        About 50% of all male students get C+, C, D+

        About 10% of all male students get Fail grade 

 

- Scoring: announced in detail at first class by the above teacher. Including: In class exercises, 1 hr hand in quiz, half day small team (max 2 students) case studies, Mid and final term exams.

 

Haha you've obviously misread my post.

When I've said "Flirting with the line", I am referring to the "line" I mentioned in the previous paragraph, of being "liked" rather than "respected" (e.g. Liked because I don't give a lot of homework, because I'm getting too close to "edutainment" rather than having a strict focus on learning).  Nothing to do with anything inappropriate.

 

[SlyAnimal]

On 6/1/2024 at 9:14 PM, Mike1989 said:

I am not sure if you will see this because it’s been a few years.  You have a great system.  I make students write lines for many of these infractions.  I usually assign 100-300.  Wondering how long you give for 500 or more.  Anytime,  I have given 500 lines or more is for serious offences or if the students has not completed them to begin with.  It takes a while for them to write a large amount but it’s a great punishment.  Do you assign lines in English?  Do you use the I must not option?  I have teaching in Malaysia for a few years and have gradually made lines my main go to punishment.   For classroom disruptions,  I ask them to either stand in the corner or in the hallway.  I prefer the corner for supervision reasons.  I really enjoyed your posting and am considering increasing the number of lines for punishments.  

500 is more for something like cheating on a test, or perhaps if it's an issue which I've previously punished students for, and a dedicated effort was made to evade detection.  It definitely isn't going to be something which I'd give out frequently.

To the best of my memory, I've only given out 500 in a single sitting once, and that was when a student had colour photocopied the 100x lines which I'd asked her to do for a previous punishment.  The head of department happened to be in the room when I caught them, so I asked his opinion (He was famously known for discipline, usually behind closed doors with a stick).  He recommended "They should do it again", which I felt really wasn't sufficient (I'd been hoping he'd recommend a visit to his office + do the lines again lol), so I gave her 500x instead of her original 100x.

[Ben Zioner]

On 6/19/2018 at 12:01 PM, joninisaan said:

I would like to know what sort of punishments other teachers here in Thailand hand out to students who break rules in their class. I'm referring to after a student or students

have been warned and repeatedly broke a certain rule. I just want some ideas on what kind of punishment we can give students here in Thailand, preferably mathayom level students as I teach in a Mathayom school. 

 

Thanks in advance

Girls or boys?

[Oz82]

On 6/20/2018 at 7:18 PM, otherstuff1957 said:

When I first started teaching in Thailand, almost 15 years ago, corporal punishment was common and almost all of the Thai teachers carried a bamboo "pointer" to class.  Things have changed and I have not seen an example of corporal punishment in over 10 years.

 

IMHO using physical punishment is not effective.  It teaches the kids that they must obey when there is a stick pointed at them.  They, of course, immediately understand that the opposite is also true....  no stick means that they don't have to obey!  Hitting kids to make them behave is not only counter-productive, it also teaches them that good behavior is something that is imposed upon them from outside, rather than something that they do of their own accord.

 

Unfortunately, Thai teachers have, by and large, replaced corporal punishment to nothing at all!  Kids who misbehave usually get nothing more than a long lecture that they can just tune out until it is over.

 

Disciplining students, especially students who are old enough to realize that they live in "the land of no consequences" (as I sometimes consider Thailand to be) is a difficult and lengthy process.  Given large class sizes and the fact that many Thai teachers will unconsciously or purposely undermine your efforts, it is an almost impossible task.

 

I don't have any answers for those of you in the Government School trenches,  I gave up and moved to a private school where the students understand and speak English and the class sizes are usually less than 20 students.  Even there, discipline can be a challenge, but being consistent and firm and having a good relationship with the Thai teachers does help a lot.

Physical punishment is still the norm in government schools. It would be very unusual for a Thai teacher not to hit their students. Foreign teachers are generally forbidden though. At my friend's school a foreign teacher was fired last month for hitting a student but the Thai teachers are all belting their students.  

[FritsSikkink]

On 6/19/2018 at 12:01 PM, joninisaan said:

I would like to know what sort of punishments other teachers here in Thailand hand out to students who break rules in their class. I'm referring to after a student or students

have been warned and repeatedly broke a certain rule. I just want some ideas on what kind of punishment we can give students here in Thailand, preferably mathayom level students as I teach in a Mathayom school. 

 

Thanks in advance

Did you have a degree in teaching in your home country, might be help you out a bit.

[kingstonkid]

On 6/19/2018 at 12:01 PM, joninisaan said:

I would like to know what sort of punishments other teachers here in Thailand hand out to students who break rules in their class. I'm referring to after a student or students

have been warned and repeatedly broke a certain rule. I just want some ideas on what kind of punishment we can give students here in Thailand, preferably mathayom level students as I teach in a Mathayom school. 

 

Thanks in advance

 

I found that some of the things that worked in public school for me worked.  Having them stand in the corner or sit in the corner. Worked for me for awhile

When I taught at Matayom we had a teacher that was responsible for discipline.  Just asking one fo the girls to go get Kruu X was enough to get control.

 

The other way to do it is the reward the class at the end of class.  I used to give them 10 minutes at the end of class with music or video of their choice if the class was good.

 

Had one girl that loved Teletubbies man did she let people now if she did not get a chance to see her teletubies.

 

Besides that you basically are on your own.  An Idea might be to sit in on a couple of the Thai teachers classes to see what they do.