European tourist caught Legionnaires' Disease in Chiang Mai hotel

[300sd]

Ok. If they won't give the name of the hotel, then I will boycott every hotel in Chiang Mai. 

Edited June 23, 2018 by 300sd

[Tchooptip]

9 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Hydrogen peroxide is too unstable to be effective. The key to controlling Legionella is regular maintenance of cooling towers to remove biomass harboring the bacteria, and a free available chlorine content of 0.5 - 1 mg/L.

1

no offence but not sure you are right 100%

Application of Hydrogen Peroxide as an Innovative Method of Treatment for Legionella Control in a Hospital Water Network

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5488649/

Edited June 23, 2018 by Tchooptip
text not in good place for understanding

[Lacessit]

9 minutes ago, Tchooptip said:

no offence but not sure you are right 100%

Application of Hydrogen Peroxide as an Innovative Method of Treatment for Legionella Control in a Hospital Water Network

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5488649/

Hydrogen peroxide will work in a CLEAN system. If biomass or some inorganics ( e.g. ferrous iron ) is present, the peroxide is exhausted quickly.

Chlorination has two factors. Chloramines arising from the combination of chlorine with organic substances, with some biocidal effect. Otherwise known as Total Chlorine. Free available chlorine (FAC), which by definition ensures complete disinfection.

No offence taken.

[PerkinsCuthbert]

Time for an honest taxi driver report from Chiang Mai.

[Aussieroaming]

Absolute morons. Legionella obviously doesnt affect a half wit pinoccio

[wvavin]

The best way to avoid this is to avoid going to Chiangmai. Not that safe but at least is a precaution.

[0815]

4 hours ago, trainman34014 said:

So; Thai's are used to living in filth so they are immune.   Welcome to Thailand 4 !

What a stupid comment !

[ttrd]

5 hours ago, trainman34014 said:

So; Thai's are used to living in filth so they are immune.   Welcome to Thailand 4 !

Thais are not immune towards foreigners - yet…

Edited June 23, 2018 by ttrd

[Lacessit]

26 minutes ago, wvavin said:

The best way to avoid this is to avoid going to Chiangmai. Not that safe but at least is a precaution.

I daresay there are plenty of hotels in other major cities in Thailand and around the world with cooling towers affected by Legionella. It's the combination of poor maintenance and compromised immune systems which result in Legionnaire's disease.

If you are that worried, stay in a remote Issan village.

[ttrd]

4 hours ago, SpeakeasyThai said:

How Thai is that! Don't name the hotel so even more unsuspecting tourists fall sick.

"No Name" may be the name: 

 

https://www.booking.com/hotel/pl/no-name-luxury-hotel-spa.pl.html

 

Edited June 23, 2018 by ttrd

[Expatthailover]

3 hours ago, dave moir said:

Like a lot of countries you are advised not to drink the tap water or use ice! In the uk people have contracted legionella so it's not about Thais living in dirty conditions! I've lived here over 6 years in Chiang Mai use the tap water every day to clean my teeth and have never had a problem! So please don't get on a moral high insulting Thais for their standard of living!!! ?

Par for the course for many on here.

Great post by the way

 

[Expatthailover]

2 hours ago, Italian guy said:

You see? It's their fault, stupid foreigners! 

Totally agree with you.

You are spot on with your conclusion

[Tchooptip]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Hydrogen peroxide will work in a CLEAN system. If biomass or some inorganics ( e.g. ferrous iron ) is present, the peroxide is exhausted quickly.

Chlorination has two factors. Chloramines arising from the combination of chlorine with organic substances, with some biocidal effect. Otherwise known as Total Chlorine. Free available chlorine (FAC), which by definition ensures complete disinfection.

No offence taken.

I must almost apologize  as a great and longtime defender of hydrogen peroxide (when possible) which is of an absolute cleanliness in a large number of situations, for the environment and us humans, compared to chlorine ... so I am biased, but( I'm honest too LOL)  chlorine is a 100% killer  but with  a lot of after negative effect when H2O2 magically disappears as he cames.

[Jonmarleesco]

6 hours ago, dave moir said:

Like a lot of countries you are advised not to drink the tap water or use ice! In the uk people have contracted legionella so it's not about Thais living in dirty conditions! I've lived here over 6 years in Chiang Mai use the tap water every day to clean my teeth and have never had a problem! So please don't get on a moral high insulting Thais for their standard of living!!! ?

It's spread in water vapour, not liquid; hence, a major issue is with air conditioners.

 

And don't get on a moral high, claiming Thais keep things such as ACs impeccably clean. They invariably don't.

[sawadee1947]

4 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Rifampicin is the antibiotic of choice in treating Legionnaire's disease. However, whether the doctor prescribes it depends on their diagnostic skills.

No it's not. It's Azithromycin.!! 

[Jonmarleesco]

'The hotel was not named.'

 

Now there's an e_fing surprise. Any civilised country, it would be the first thing to be done. Of course, if tourists decided to boycott Chiang Mai hotels en masse, there would be a whole different reaction. 

 

'... prevention depends on good maintenance of water systems.' 

 

Or not, as often is the case

 

'Dr Sumeth said that most Thais are immune though foreigners are more susceptible. '

 

Not sure what that tells us about the Thais and their habits. That said, Thais are most certainly susceptible to pneumonia.

Edited June 23, 2018 by Jonmarleesco

[thaigirlwatcher]

6 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

"Thais thankfully have a natural resistance to the bacteria.."

 

All is good,then.

As a medical microbiologist I call that claim as TOTAL BULLSHIT. I remember working with a Filipina medical technologist in the 80's who said that Asians had natural resistance to HIV. Yea, right. 

[smotherb]

I knew it; it's them Thai waterfalls, or is it Songkran?

[micmichd]

9 hours ago, trainman34014 said:

So; Thai's are used to living in filth so they are immune.   Welcome to Thailand 4 !

It's not a matter of filth, it's a question of how well your immune system is trained.

[Ulic]

The Thai natural immunity is most Thais don't have air conditioning so they are not exposed. 

[doodle]

13 hours ago, rooster59 said:

But he added that Thais thankfully have a natural resistance to the bacteria. 

Total BS.

This, somewhat technical article (most has gone over my head but the salient points are clear), explains:

https://legionnaires.ecdc.europa.eu/?pid=108

[hgma]

Having read the statement i wonder how many foreigners and Thai's are really died over the years as a result of this filthy phenomenon...... cause of death pneumonia and that's it?

[JimmyJ]

14 hours ago, 300sd said:

Ok. If they won't give the name of the hotel, then I will boycott every hotel in Chiang Mai. 

Not giving the name of the hotel is crazy.

What is the point, other than to unnecessarily put more people at risk?

[Dumbastheycome]

19 hours ago, verticalift said:

As a Canadian Expat, I was unfortunately on the receiving end of Legionaires Disease in late 2007. I was lucky. The disease is basically an upper respiratory infection caused by bacteria in water vapor. It is spread mostly by those old window type air conditioners that have not been kept clean. Bacteria and mold will grow in the drip tray and on the vents / screens. When the air-con is turned on, the room is filled with bacteria and mold spores. 

The bacteria will also grow around faucets and shower heads that have not been used in a while. Basically, any place where water droplets are allowed the stagnate. Many hotels in tropical countries are faced with this problem, especially when rooms sit vacant for days or weeks on end. Staff and owners of these smaller hotels and guest houses have no idea about what it is, or how it is spread.

Though I contracted Legonaires Disease at a hotel in Eket Nigeria while flying Helicopters for Bristow, I have since been very aware and causious at home in Phuket where I have lived for the past 20+ years. There is no immunity to the disease. Anybody can get it, if subjected to it. Keep your air-cons clean guys. Strip them down every 6 months and thoroughly clean them using a bleach type spray. Also, keep the faucets and shower heads clean, using bleach spray ie Clorox or Detol.

Trust me when I say, you do not want to get this. The mortality rate is around 40%.

 

 

Good post !  Indeed unserviced air con  is  the most  common source. But the same  bacteria is everywhere in the environment so it is not necessarily a matter of  "filth" as I have seen some suggest. Bagged garden compost is also a  high source risk. It is the concentration of  bacteria in situations that leads to infection. In the  general environment we have  probably  been exposed to it without  consequence.

If the  air conditioning unit or bathroom any place you stay smells musty it would be a good reason to move.

And give pause to think about how often does anyone clean the air con in a vehicle? Especially in the wet season!

[thaiguzzi]

23 hours ago, rooster59 said:

He said that foreigners tend not to have resistance to the legionella bacteria that causes the condition. 

 

But he added that Thais thankfully have a natural resistance to the bacteria

Well that's  all hunky dory and sorted then.

[Dumbastheycome]

10 hours ago, doodle said:

Total BS.

This, somewhat technical article (most has gone over my head but the salient points are clear), explains:

https://legionnaires.ecdc.europa.eu/?pid=108

Why BS ?  That item explains the different immune reactivity as in initial response to a first case infection.

It  does not consider constant exposure which perpetuates the  acquired adaptive immune response which perhaps  supports the  opinion that Thais have better immunity or immune tolerance.

 

 

[user4643453]

suppose we were lucky not to catch this disease when we stayed at Mona Boutique, never seen so much filth in my life, thankfully we moved out next morning  

[user4643453]

suppose we were lucky not to catch this disease when we stayed at Mona Boutique, never seen so much filth in my life, thankfully we moved out next morning  

[moe666]

Well as usual alot of miss information here. This bacteria is usually found in surface water lakes, ponds, rivers and streams. Yes it could be found in your household water but I believe the local water is treated more than likely with chlorine and other processes. But these things break down or enough disinfectant isn't used causing bacteria to grow.

 

I would think the victim wasn't infected in the hotel more than likely he walked thru a spray of some sort that the droplets were small enough to enter his lungs causing infection add in a few hard nights on the town drinking more than likely a smoker and we have an impaired immune system and we have one sick tourist. Also when did he arrive in Chiang Mai he may have contacted the bacteria before he left Europe  and only showed signs of sickness after arrival here. Many of the legion people who are the name sake of this disease did not become sick until after returning home. This fact also delayed figureing out what the problem happen to be.Many more people suffer from this disease each year than is reported because it will usually be listed as some other lung disease. The test used to determine legionairs is usually not preformed on patients.

 

Again you are very unlikely to get legionalle from a normal room air con unless some how it is spraying water the bacteria need water droplets to travel and they have to be the correct size. If you get sick from a room a/c more than likely an air borne infectious agent.

 

If in Chiang Mai I would worry more about getting hit by a car or motorbike and being hit on by a ladyboy than getting legionaires

[StevieAus]

On 6/23/2018 at 3:15 PM, dave moir said:

Like a lot of countries you are advised not to drink the tap water or use ice! In the uk people have contracted legionella so it's not about Thais living in dirty conditions! I've lived here over 6 years in Chiang Mai use the tap water every day to clean my teeth and have never had a problem! So please don't get on a moral high insulting Thais for their standard of living!!! ?

Unfortunately there are people on this site who want to criticize anything and everything about Thailand, which begs the question why they live here, I suspect that they live boring lives.

The article stated that there are up to 18000 cases in the US per year and I recall that there was a problem in Sydney some years ago caused I think by air conditioning water cooling towers not being kept cleaned.