5 minutes ago, trainman34014 said:

How on earth could caving be preparation for a football match, which is what they are claiming ?

one word. "teamanship". The ability to be able to work as a team.

Are the authorities liable for inadequate information on the warning sign?

10 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

 

I think they need to change the sign from July to June for safety reasons because anyone new to the area could also get trapped in late June

It says from July til November

2 minutes ago, swifty5x5 said:

It says from July til November

Yes it says July to November and there are 12 people trapped by flood waters and it is only June and the official rainy season can start in May so why not change the sign to read June to November

What I want to hear is that the Navy divers are setting up some kind base station on the side of the cave where the kids are, finding the kids, getting some information out... Of course that could be happening, the news is so unreliable.

The kids have not been found !!

Live press conference.  They still have not located kids.

Is it known if high sensitivity microphones and othe auditory equipment has been placed / used. I am aware in mine rescue this is a primary technique.

 

It seems that apart from a few footprints nothing so far has been seen or heard since they were first reported missing.

2 hours ago, Peabody said:

Mightn't there be a remotely operated underwater drone that could be employed?

Some call it a submarine?

too bad they chased the mining companies out, but still would be a good idea to get a team of Aussie miners up here, pronto.  

What is it with these Navy Seals? Are they afraid to use their training? Why have they withdrawn to the safety of the outside the cave? This is all time lost, they need to get on the other side of that water and then continue on foot and do a proper search. Even if the water increases in depth the bloody navy seals have the equipement and the training to be able to do the job, but they turn around and run outside to safety. I would not like to rely on them in combat.

My unit moto was "United and Undaunted"

I hope these kids emerge without loss of life and that the rescuers don't lose any of their team during this operation.

3 minutes ago, moontang said:

too bad they chased the mining companies out, but still would be a good idea to get a team of Aussie miners up here, pronto.  

Yes moontang, the mines rescue boys would not hesitate but they would not be able to access the cave because of the water, they were a great bunch of blokes. But the Australian Navy divers would not stop until they reached those boys even if the depth of the water did increase they would continue with their task.

12 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

What is it with these Navy Seals? Are they afraid to use their training? Why have they withdrawn to the safety of the outside the cave? This is all time lost, they need to get on the other side of that water and then continue on foot and do a proper search. Even if the water increases in depth the bloody navy seals have the equipement and the training to be able to do the job, but they turn around and run outside to safety. I would not like to rely on them in combat.

My unit moto was "United and Undaunted"

Diver training also includes knowledge of risks to the rescuers and the effects of forces outside their control, namely the volumn of water in a confined space. Divers have no chance in a flash flood regardless of where they come from or level of training. 

2 hours ago, Russell17au said:

Problem: if it was a straight smooth sided tube then I would agree with you but here we have rocky outcrops that the boys could get caught up on and panic because one very big factor in this is they will not be able to see in the dark muddy water, remember there is no sunlight so it is night time every second.

Fair comment, I just hope they can get them out either way, It has been 4 days now though and I would think its pretty cold in there. Hypothermia comes to mind.

Good luck lads. We’re all rooting for you. 

did a bit of cave diving in Australia years ago as well as night diving with no lights(tactical), requires a lot of nerves but there are safety measures that must be followed. Turgid water would make it very dangerous, too easy to hit rock formations causing injury due to lack of control where they go and I doubt that there would be many licensed/experienced cave divers in Thailand, water needs to drop and the current letting off before anyone should go in there but being Thailand safety measures will probably be ignored anyway, hopefully no one dies

2 hours ago, Russell17au said:

There is one way that they can get the boys out once they find them and as long as the passageway is large enough for two people with scuba tanks on to be able to fit through together then the navy divers could clip 1 of the boys to him with the boy facing the diver and swim out together, much like the buddy system that is used in parachuting. There are 11 boys and 1 coach and there are 18 navy divers. These are navy seals which like the American seals and the Australian clearance divers they are the best of the best, so get them in there and find those boys.

Whilst I very much appreciate your posting in this thread, please beware of Thai Anglicised naming. I had a friend who had been an officer in the Thai Army Paratroopers for several years. I asked him how many jumps he had done. "Never," was the answer. So best to take navy seals with a pinch of salt.

7 minutes ago, seajae said:

did a bit of cave diving in Australia years ago as well as night diving with no lights(tactical), requires a lot of nerves but there are safety measures that must be followed. Turgid water would make it very dangerous, too easy to hit rock formations causing injury due to lack of control where they go and I doubt that there would be many licensed/experienced cave divers in Thailand, water needs to drop and the current letting off before anyone should go in there but being Thailand safety measures will probably be ignored anyway, hopefully no one dies

The one report said the seal team had gotten 3km into the cave system. It didn't state how far their dive was but there are limits to how long tanks are good for. Equipment has its limits. I sure hope they find a way to get to those poor kids but some of the second guessing here makes me shake my head. 

2 hours ago, neeray said:

This is a very scary story. My heart goes out to the parents, family and friends. Best wishes for the lost soles.

I, like every TVF member can only hope for a miraculous outcome.

Indeed neeray , I said to my wife around midnight last night , What if it was our son in that cave , hungry , cold and with quite likely no light , if they are found ok they will be having nightmares for years to come .

2 hours ago, trainman34014 said:

How on earth could caving be preparation for a football match, which is what they are claiming ?

It's called "team building" same as companies send employees to a kind of campus to bond together... 

just use a little imagination !!

26 minutes ago, seajae said:

did a bit of cave diving in Australia years ago as well as night diving with no lights(tactical), requires a lot of nerves but there are safety measures that must be followed. Turgid water would make it very dangerous, too easy to hit rock formations causing injury due to lack of control where they go and I doubt that there would be many licensed/experienced cave divers in Thailand, water needs to drop and the current letting off before anyone should go in there but being Thailand safety measures will probably be ignored anyway, hopefully no one dies

Good to read some informed comment, thanks.

An indication here of how dangerous cave diving can be.

 

http://www.wavesncaves.com/main/index.php/8-main/3-cave-diving-fatalities

Another example where Thais ignore the rules or warnings. They feel it is "ok" to break them.

I have been responsible for school groups going on field trips and safety is always on ones mind. It is always a worry and a big responsibility. This "coach" needs to be aware of how he is responsible for these kids' safety ...not just acting like a "recreation" supervisor. (I am sure he has learned his lesson.) I am praying for the best.

After thought: Would they have flash lights (torches) to see their way?  You'd think the boys and coach would be close enough for the rescuers to hear the "echoes" ... but did they try to find another exit. Yikes.

I hope the kids get out alive. The coach needs to be grounded for good as this is more than irresponsible while the authorities need to close the cave for good as well. 

 

3 hours ago, toenail said:

Another example where Thais ignore the rules or warnings. They feel it is "ok" to break them.

I have been responsible for school groups going on field trips and safety is always on ones mind. It is always a worry and a big responsibility. This "coach" needs to be aware of how he is responsible for these kids' safety ...not just acting like a "recreation" supervisor. (I am sure he has learned his lesson.) I am praying for the best.

After thought: Would they have flash lights (torches) to see their way?  You'd think the boys and coach would be close enough for the rescuers to hear the "echoes" ... but did they try to find another exit. Yikes.

toenail, there were no warnings ignored and no rules broken, there is a sign at the entrance saying danger of flooding between July and November and the cave was open to the public and it was not until after they entered the cave that there was a storm which caused flash flooding which has blocked their escape route

10 minutes ago, Sydebolle said:

I hope the kids get out alive. The coach needs to be grounded for good as this is more than irresponsible while the authorities need to close the cave for good as well. 

 

Why should the coach be grounded? How is this his responsibility. At the time the coach and the boys entered the cave it was open to the public and there is a warning sign at the front of the cave stating that between July and November there is a chance of flooding. The coach has done nothing wrong, he has not broken any rules, so stop pointing the finger at the coach. If you want to be on the high moral ground then point the finger at the authorities for having the cave open to the public.

35 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

Why should the coach be grounded? How is this his responsibility. At the time the coach and the boys entered the cave it was open to the public and there is a warning sign at the front of the cave stating that between July and November there is a chance of flooding. The coach has done nothing wrong, he has not broken any rules, so stop pointing the finger at the coach. If you want to be on the high moral ground then point the finger at the authorities for having the cave open to the public.

Most people don't go into caves when there is a risk of flash floods.

I've been back in Thailand about a month, and it's rained nearly every day.

When you're in charge of children, it's probably a good idea to think carefully before you act.

 

My thoughts

"It's wet, so the cave is probably too dangerous to enter"

 

I thought the Thai news on TV this morning said they are in contact with the footballers, but it's too dangerous to bring them out at the moment. I may have mistranslated.

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Most people don't go into caves when there is a risk of flash floods.

I've been back in Thailand about a month, and it's rained nearly every day.

When you're in charge of children, it's probably a good idea to think carefully before you act.

 

My thoughts

"It's wet, so the cave is probably too dangerous to enter"

They have been in the cave 3 times in the last couple of weeks as has many other people

17 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

They have been in the cave 3 times in the last couple of weeks as has many other people

And it was unwise Saturday.

 

I'm still praying for everyone to get out alive and well.