Thai Law: Case Closed On Airbnb. Here’s Why It Won’t Matter.

[brucec64]

4 hours ago, TGIR said:

We live in a 38 unit condo, all units are at least 180 sq meters with most over 250.  A few months ago we noticed an unusual amount of activity around the pool (we are on the pool deck level), in the garage and elevators.  We soon learned we had two owners renting out their condos on a daily basis using AirB&B. 

 

For us, a complete disaster.  Our normal experience is light use of the other units except for holidays and family vacations.  Generally we would have but a few people here, mostly older adults.  There were, of course, times when small children and teenagers would have a full day or weekend of screaming and running around, but it was tolerable with just 38 units.

 

To have just the two units renting daily,  (most rentals were in groups of six or more people, almost always with children) the increase in noise, pool usage, and a constant flow of people in and out of the condo became unbearable very quickly.  

 

The change to only allow 30 days minimum rentals has been a Godsend.   

 

As a condo, you have options for this. You should make this an agenda item at your next AGM and institute a minimum rental period. We did this many years ago when we voted in a 6 month minimum, and do not have an issue with short term rentals. While it may seem to be difficult to monitor, we enforced this by issuing residence photo cards to residents, and limiting access to the pool area and other common areas based on having a valid residence card. Other areas that can be controlled are parking and front desk services. Front desk and security cannot be allowed to provide key services or in any other way assist with short term rentals. Once the airbnb rating goes down, you won't have an issue any more. PM me if you would like to get any more details on how to deal with this issue.

[sambum]

 "Case Closed On Airbnb. Here’s Why It Won’t Matter."

 

What a misleading headline, when it is followed by:-

 

"the company told them Saturday that yes, they are breaking the law."

[Russell17au]

4 hours ago, chatette said:

Home sharing isn’t new in Thailand or elsewhere. Its just become more widespread with the advent of AirBNB. I’ve rented my holiday apartment for many years via various platforms without complaints and screen prospective tenants and limit their size to families that match my facilities. The vast majority of co-owners in my building favor home-sharing to help cover their costs and the topic has been debated at AGMs several times (where I ‘ve variously been on the board and in the assembly). I cover my costs and allow others to enjoy my place when I can’t be there. I pay my common charge, as do other co-owners, so my guests are using facilities I’d use if I lived there full time. I’d readily pay tax if Thailand updated its archaic laws and regulations to allow me to. A wholesale ban on holiday rentals is only beneficial to the oligarchs who control Thailand’s policy and economy (including vested interests in the Thai Hotels Association) .  Recognition of the business model, and some regulation to prevent abuses – including curbs on commercial back-to-back short-term rentals - would be beneficial to the economy and holiday makers. But I’m sure there won’t be changes anytime soon thanks to vested interests.

If you are charging for the rooms you are running a business and that is the reality of it. Under Thai law you must as a business pay tax. Also you must register your business and that business must be 51% owned by a Thai. Condo's are registered for private accommodation not registered and licensed hotels. As you have stated, you would readily pay tax if the Thailand changes the Thailand laws to suit you. Why don't you change to suit Thailand laws after all you are in Thailand and it is their laws that you must obey or you are operating an illegal business. It is quite simple, you know the laws of Thailand then abide by them like most others do.

[Letseng]

8 hours ago, ezzra said:

While AirBnB works fine in many countries around the world, Thailand is one of the very few who throws a spanner in the works,

Simply put, the Thai government want to collect due taxes on any such transactions and also to protect the hospitality industry from so called unfair competition, Thailand should evolve with the time and leave something well alone... 

 

Thailand isn't one of very few to throw spanners in the works. Many destinations e.g. in Europe or Singapore stopped AirBnB letting. 

[newnative]

4 hours ago, meinphuket said:

The law clearly states that responsible is the home owner, NOT the condo management or its committee. This was also made clear in the judgement whereby only the owners were held accountable.

 

If the condo management is not complicit in soliciting and driving short term rentals, and are not aware of the practice because they are focusing on what is essentially their job (mostly maintenance and ider issues) then they are not accountable.

 

it is also not within the purview of the committee, or indeed co owners to decide who can stay and who not. It smacks of outright dictatorial behaviour. Apropos the  rules and regulations: they should only set out behavioural rules, NOT who can stay and who can not. It is for the same reason that fingerprint equipment is unacceptable. It violates privacy rights and freedom of access. If I were the owner of a a condo and wanted my parents or friends to stay they couldn't. Does that not violate the principal of  home-ownership freedom of enjoyment of your property and who you allow to stay ?

 

Issues contained in the  3rd paragraph related to access can be legally challenged in my opinion with a class action initiated by condo owners.

 

I am not a condominium owner.

      It is the responsibility of the condo management/juristic to enforce all condo by-laws; most condos restrict short-term rentals in their by-laws.  A fingerprint access system does not violate privacy rights or freedom of access; some condo projects are already using fingerprint systems.  It's simply another form of security that nobody should object to if they are obeying the law.

      If your relatives come to visit and you haven't given them a keycard, they will be denied access at many condos to the use of the elevator, access to the floor of your condo, fitness room, pool, etc.  With a fingerprint system, your relatives would be put in the system once and linked to your condo.  Fingerprinting might actually be more convenient as many condos restrict the number of keycards they issue per unit.  To safeguard against daily rentals, you would be restricted to the number of times fingerprints linked to your room could be changed.  

[Russell17au]

1 hour ago, HooHaa said:

i dont think you read the entire OP, or even my brief post.

i specifically stated i do not have a condo.

secondarily an excess of 4 rooms holding up to 25 guests is required before a hotel licences is necessary.

finally if i choose to rent my home and pay the appropriate HLT levy (local not federal), then i am breaking no laws.

im not even certain you recall the context of the discussion,  it seems to me more likely you are just arguing for argument sake.

Are you a registered company in Thailand?

Is your registered company 51% owned by a Thai?

Do you pay your registered company taxes to the revenue department in Thailand?

Do you posses a work permit in Thailand?

Do you employ 4 or more Thai's full time as is required by Thai law for you to have a work permit?

Does your rental property meet the regulations required for a guesthouse?

Do you have a license to operate a guesthouse?

If the answer to any of these questions is "NO" then you are breaking the law

[newnative]

4 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

You are mistaken.  It is the duty of the condo management to protect and maintain the safety of the condo.  Also, you are in most places not allowed to run a business without the consent of the board.

 

Here is an example  I own a condo, I rent it out as Airbnb.  The person that rents it for 5 days decides that they are going to have a party in the condo every night.  They have an open door policy and eventually, your teenage daughter or son goes in to see what is happening.   Who are you going to scream at you have no way of knowing who I am and I do not live in Thailand?  

 

Scenario 2 I rent it out to 3 lovely young ladies from Canada that seem to be nice even headed students  (on paper)  Turns out that they decide that the way to fund their vacation is by entertaining men and women at all hours.

 

Scenario 3 I buy and live in the condo and have a business selling porn and have of course many men and women entering and leaving my condo after they have made purchases.  First, the company is legal as it is in my wife's name,  we pay our taxes and VAT.  The hours are reasonable.

 

You go to the condo committee to complain and they tell you sorry nothing we can do.

 

Scenario 1 is a noise complaint police come to tell them to keep it quiet after 10 they agree.  Parties still go on.

 

Scenario 2 Police come and check it out but because the girls only invite Farang and do not go near cops no sting is going to touch them.  Also they get more discreet.

 

Scenario 3 I am not as I said breaking any laws.  Cops can't touch me Immigration can't no one can.  

 

Who do youblame for letting me do this?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agree.   If your next door neighbor decides to raise pigs in his condo, Juristic needs to step in and enforce the condo by-laws.  

[Russell17au]

3 minutes ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

 

Most people in Thailand abide by the law? Sure you are in Thailand mate?

Yes, I live in Thailand and I have a business in Thailand which is run in accordance with Thai laws and most of the people I know also run their businesses in accordance with the Thai laws. Maybe Father it is time that you should get out of the boys dormitory

[doodle]

I would be quite sure, in the UK, that tax would also be due on renting a property for a short or long let as it would be considered a business. You may get away with it if you are living at the premises, under the 'rent a room' scheme and share facilities but how many people would do that.

 

I should imagine all sorts of other rules apply as, effectively, you would be running a hotel. I suspect, also, that there would be property insurance issues. I would hazard a guess that it's the same in many other countries.

[Russell17au]

1 minute ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

 

You sound just like the people in the West I moved to Thailand 31 years ago to avoid.

Then you better keep moving because we are here

[Russell17au]

1 minute ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

Yes I know, spoiling all the fun and being bitter about not being here when Thailand was really a great place to live.

I'm not bitter about it as I have been here for quite some time as well and yes I have also seen the changes that have happened here. Some for the good and some for the not so good of Thailand

[Russell17au]

4 minutes ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

"Quite some time" = missed the good times. 

No, I was here in the late 60's

[Wake Up]

I for one will have no problem turning in a condo owner that illegally rents on airbnb. I am not alone IMO.

 

And once I demand my deposit back from my condo owner landlord for living in a condo with illegal renters, my landlord condo owner will join in.

 

More and more long term 12 month tenants are adding the clause to their lease of being able to move and get damages if they are disturbed by Airbnb renters.  If the prospective landlord of the condos will not agree to change the lease (with the Airbnb damages language) then I walk away  and they and they lose a long term tenant paying tenant. 

 

People should be able to rent a condo without fear of Airbnb short term problem guests. 

Edited June 25, 2018 by Wake Up

[Thailand]

It's being done by Booking.com Agoda.com etc, all of the online travel accommodation providers so it won't just apply  to Airbnb .

[digbeth]

Japan has just came out with special law or permit for AirBnB and bookings are being cancelled now that owners are scrambling to get permit

[ukrules]

10 hours ago, Get Real said:

And why would that be? This regards renting out livingspace for the short time of days and weeks.

How can that make it harder to sell condos?

There's going to have been a massive number of condos sold over the last few years to be used purely as short term rentals.

 

They wouldn't have bought them for any other reason.

[Russell17au]

6 minutes ago, ukrules said:

There's going to have been a massive number of condos sold over the last few years to be used purely as short term rentals.

 

They wouldn't have bought them for any other reason.

But those farangs should have known that to go and buy a condo in their own name and rent it either on a long or short term basis is actually running a business for which they need a work permit and be a registered business which must be 51% Thai owned. I would say at a guess that most of them would be operating illegally and you watch them scream like stuffed pigs when they get caught and it is this business with the likes of AirBnB that is going to bring a lot of them into the eyes of the Thai government and they can blame no one but themselves as they know what the law is here

[Number 6]

It should not be legal and wholly exclusionary in bilaws to rent condos short time - less than 12 mo imo. Initial contact 6 or 12 most then month to month. Apartments as well.

 

If you want to make money on overnight stays, buy a hotel.

 

I dislike Airbnb intensely and even as a potential customer don't use it.

[ukrules]

7 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

But those farangs should have known that to go and buy a condo in their own name and rent it either on a long or short term basis is actually running a business for which they need a work permit and be a registered business which must be 51% Thai owned. I would say at a guess that most of them would be operating illegally and you watch them scream like stuffed pigs when they get caught and it is this business with the likes of AirBnB that is going to bring a lot of them into the eyes of the Thai government and they can blame no one but themselves as they know what the law is here

 

I suspect most of the people doing this will be Thai.

 

[Russell17au]

3 minutes ago, ukrules said:

 

I suspect most of the people doing this will be Thai.

 

I know a few farangs that have bought multiple condos that are renting them out, but on a long term basis and this is going to bring them to the attention of the government.

Edited June 25, 2018 by Russell17au

[Number 6]

31 minutes ago, ukrules said:

There's going to have been a massive number of condos sold over the last few years to be used purely as short term rentals.

 

They wouldn't have bought them for any other reason.

Hide black/gray money. Renting is just a bonus.

[janclaes47]

18 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

I know a few farangs that have bought multiple condos that are renting them out, but on a long term basis and this is going to bring them to the attention of the government.

It is not illegal to rent your condo long term, as long as you pay taxes on the income. No work permit or business license required.

[The Deerhunter]

12 hours ago, ukrules said:

This could make it much harder to sell condos.

Well it is damned inconsiderate if anyone bought a condo with the express purpose of renting it out short term.   I am almost tempted to say serves them right if that is the (only) reason they are selling.   No one wants to live next to a place rented by the day or week in a holiday resort town.  Disclaimer:  I own properties in other countries on one year leases but live on a farm in the sticks here.

[Russell17au]

1 minute ago, janclaes47 said:

It is not illegal to rent your condo long term, as long as you pay taxes on the income. No work permit or business license required.

One particular farang has 6 condo's he lives in 1 and rents out the other 5 plus he rents out motor scooters from the condo. That is a business and it requires a work permit and he is no longer married to a Thai

[janclaes47]

Just now, Russell17au said:

One particular farang has 6 condo's he lives in 1 and rents out the other 5 plus he rents out motor scooters from the condo. That is a business and it requires a work permit and he is no longer married to a Thai

Is this thread about renting scooters.

 

Why you not also add that he runs a massage in those condo's, just to have the last word.

[Russell17au]

1 minute ago, janclaes47 said:

Is this thread about renting scooters.

 

Why you not also add that he runs a massage in those condo's, just to have the last word.

You should go and check your Thai laws instead of trying to come up with idiotic responses.

You stated that you can rent your condo without a work permit. That is rubbish because anything that derives an income for a farang requires a work permit and a registered company which must be 51% Thai owned.

So go and have your little upset somewhere else

[bkk6060]

11 hours ago, ezzra said:

While AirBnB works fine in many countries around the world, Thailand is one of the very few who throws a spanner in the works,

Simply put, the Thai government want to collect due taxes on any such transactions and also to protect the hospitality industry from so called unfair competition, Thailand should evolve with the time and leave something well alone. 

 

Evolving would be to yes, do the right thing by obeying the law.

 

It is all great for the consumer heck I have used it.  

But, let's take the US or just about any place. 

Not only are the owners not paying a hotel type tax, but they I am sure not reporting the income for tax purposes.

So yes, it is about paying up like generally most people have to do.

But in reality, these ST "landlords" are totally scamming the system. Probably into the billion dollar range.

If people are OK with that, then I guess they are...

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2018 by bkk6060

[The Deerhunter]

11 hours ago, ezzra said:

While AirBnB works fine in many countries around the world, Thailand is one of the very few who throws a spanner in the works,

Simply put, the Thai government want to collect due taxes on any such transactions and also to protect the hospitality industry from so called unfair competition, Thailand should evolve with the time and leave something well alone... 

 

Their main problem is their Xenophobia and their obsession of knowing where every tourist spends every night.  If they were a bit more careful who they let in (as they appear to be starting to do) they would not be so paranoid because of so many bad decisions.  The stories and thread topics about people bribing Immigration, even on this forum...........................   Good in, bad out is the buzz phrase I believe?

[sirmud63]

3 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

You should go and check your Thai laws instead of trying to come up with idiotic responses.

You stated that you can rent your condo without a work permit. That is rubbish because anything that derives an income for a farang requires a work permit and a registered company which must be 51% Thai owned.

So go and have your little upset somewhere else

utter bullshit. 

[sirmud63]

20 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

One particular farang has 6 condo's he lives in 1 and rents out the other 5 plus he rents out motor scooters from the condo. That is a business and it requires a work permit and he is no longer married to a Thai

more bullshit . 

who is going to provide the work permit ?

what qualifications are required to obtain that work permit ?

what base salery is attached to that work permit ? 

you sir are a fool .

go check thai labour laws and learn how to read them .