Rising water hamper efforts to rescue boys missing in Chiang Rai cave

[KiwiKiwi]

4 minutes ago, greenchair said:

Oh that's just rad isn't it bringing in the age abuse. 

What we need to do is remain realistic to the gravity of the situation and not make silly assumptions due to emotional inability to see that, day 5 is almost over and there's a high possibility that the coach will not be alive to recieve his punishment that you have wished upon him. 

Agreed. Age abuse? I'm old, I was commenting on my age, I neither know about nor care about your age.

 

I think this problem was over yesterday, though I would like to be wrong. As to the rest? Emotions have their uses, this isn't one of them. Plenty of time to feel all sympathetic or angry or outraged and stuff as and when it's over. Not now. I'm not one to join friends in crying into their beer, and I didn't think you were either. That's just a waste of time, though of course, we're back to the 'belonging' thing again.

[KiwiKiwi]

32 minutes ago, greenchair said:

It just isn't the time to talk about that right now. 

 

Says who? Of course it's a right time, it's always a right time to do some thinking.

[Jingthing]

If people are insisting on going into the blame game at this stage, why stop at the assistant coach? Didn't all the parents already KNOW that they had been taken into that cave before? How about the parents saying, if the group is going in that cave during the RAINY season, don't you go. Would you jump off a cliff if your teammates told you to? I know, people are going to be offended by that given what the parents are going through now but in future it does bring up the question of PARENTAL PERMISSION for such foolhardy expeditions. 

[KiwiKiwi]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

If people are insisting on going into the blame game at this stage, why stop at the assistant coach? Didn't all the parents already KNOW that they had been taken into that cave before? How about the parents saying, if the group is going in that cave during the RAINY season, don't you go. Would you jump off a cliff if your teammates told you to? I know, people are going to be offended by that given what the parents are going through now but in future it does bring up the question of PARENTAL PERMISSION for such foolhardy expeditions. 

 

Agreed. Completely valid comment.

[Artisi]

12 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

If people are insisting on going into the blame game at this stage, why stop at the assistant coach? Didn't all the parents already KNOW that they had been taken into that cave before? How about the parents saying, if the group is going in that cave during the RAINY season, don't you go. Would you jump off a cliff if your teammates told you to? I know, people are going to be offended by that given what the parents are going through now but in future it does bring up the question of PARENTAL PERMISSION for such foolhardy expeditions. 

That's a very harsh comment under the circumstances, but unfortunately it's true, and don't forget the authorities  posted a warning sign saying flooding starting July  -  as an earlier poster pointed out - wet session  - close all caves that have a tendency to flood during this period.

Edited June 28, 2018 by Artisi

[transam]

10 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

If people are insisting on going into the blame game at this stage, why stop at the assistant coach? Didn't all the parents already KNOW that they had been taken into that cave before? How about the parents saying, if the group is going in that cave during the RAINY season, don't you go. Would you jump off a cliff if your teammates told you to? I know, people are going to be offended by that given what the parents are going through now but in future it does bring up the question of PARENTAL PERMISSION for such foolhardy expeditions. 

Do Thai folk actually look at risks.....Most kids go to school on a bike underage with no license or crash hat......Just the way it is....

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, Artisi said:

That's a very harsh comment under the circumstances, but unfortunately it's true, and don't forget the authorities  posted a warning sign saying flooding starting July  -  as an earlier poster pointed out - wet session  - close all caves that have a tendency to flood during this period.

I'm not naive. There is peer pressure in situations like that. In Thailand and everywhere. A kid that said, sorry my Mommy says don't go in the rainy season is going to be mocked and even bullied. But it would still be the right thing to do, not go in especially so poorly equipped, even with a price of social shunning. It's something I remember vividly from my childhood that was drilled into me -- the thing about not jumping off a cliff just because of peer pressure. Think for yourself. Yes, I know Thai culture is different in that regard. 

Edited June 28, 2018 by Jingthing

[BritManToo]

7 minutes ago, Artisi said:

That's a very harsh comment under the circumstances, but unfortunately it's true, and don't forget the authorities  posted a warning sign saying flooding starting July  -  as an earlier poster pointed out - wet session  - close all caves that have a tendency to flood during this period.

Different discussion,

Thailand isn't a nanny state like we're used to, if an adult wants to endanger themselves, I have no problem with that.

If an government employee (contractor/youth leader) wants to endanger other people's children, a completely different matter.

[greenchair]

41 minutes ago, KiwiKiwi said:

Agreed. Age abuse? I'm old, I was commenting on my age, I neither know about nor care about your age.

 

I think this problem was over yesterday, though I would like to be wrong. As to the rest? Emotions have their uses, this isn't one of them. Plenty of time to feel all sympathetic or angry or outraged and stuff as and when it's over. Not now. I'm not one to join friends in crying into their beer, and I didn't think you were either. That's just a waste of time, though of course, we're back to the 'belonging' thing again.

Um. 

That's just too deep. 

Even for my extensive intelligence. 

[Ks45672]

10 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Different discussion,

Thailand isn't a nanny state like we're used to, if an adult wants to endanger themselves, I have no problem with that.

If an government employee (contractor/youth leader) wants to endanger other people's children, a completely different matter.

If there isn't fresh water to drink in that cave 

They have little chance of survival at this stage

 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Ks45672 said:

If there isn't fresh water to drink in that cave 

They have little chance of survival at this stage

 

There almost definitely is drinkable water. But the issue would be if they're in the right place to find it and see it in the DARK. 

[KiwiKiwi]

13 minutes ago, greenchair said:

Um. 

That's just too deep. 

Even for my extensive intelligence. 

Oh. Sorry. Perhaps I misjudged, though I'm not often wrong. Light hide bushel? Or are you perhaps engaging in a little reverse psychology?

 

Anyway, the time is always right to attribute blame where it should rest, to draw lessons from things that went awry, and to figure out why they went awry. To say it's not the right time is simply to wallow in the limbic system, which is just as bad as not knowing how to do that (which can lead to psycopathy).

 

The responsibility for this potential disaster rests completely with the adult supervising, and with the parents for not ensuring adequate qualified supervision, which is their joint job. Thais in general do a very poor job at raising kids, and concentrate way too much on creating them without thought as to the future.

Edited June 28, 2018 by KiwiKiwi

[KiwiKiwi]

21 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Different discussion,

Thailand isn't a nanny state like we're used to, if an adult wants to endanger themselves, I have no problem with that.

If an government employee (contractor/youth leader) wants to endanger other people's children, a completely different matter.

 

If you call a state that looks after it's people a 'nanny' state, then you have a perspective that's out of whack - imho. That is, after all, the job of government. If you're saying the Thai government does a crap job, then I agree with you, but it's not a nanny state to not be negligent or uncaring as to the welfare of your fellow man.

[josephbloggs]

4 hours ago, KiwiKiwi said:

Oh. Sorry. Perhaps I misjudged, though I'm not often wrong. Light hide bushel? Or are you perhaps engaging in a little reverse psychology?

 

Anyway, the time is always right to attribute blame where it should rest, to draw lessons from things that went awry, and to figure out why they went awry. To say it's not the right time is simply to wallow in the limbic system, which is just as bad as not knowing how to do that (which can lead to psycopathy).

 

The responsibility for this potential disaster rests completely with the adult supervising, and with the parents for not ensuring adequate qualified supervision, which is their joint job. Thais in general do a very poor job at raising kids, and concentrate way too much on creating them without thought as to the future.

Any chance you can find something else to do on the internet tonight please?

[bannork]

4 hours ago, KiwiKiwi said:

Oh. Sorry. Perhaps I misjudged, though I'm not often wrong. Light hide bushel? Or are you perhaps engaging in a little reverse psychology?

 

Anyway, the time is always right to attribute blame where it should rest, to draw lessons from things that went awry, and to figure out why they went awry. To say it's not the right time is simply to wallow in the limbic system, which is just as bad as not knowing how to do that (which can lead to psycopathy).

 

The responsibility for this potential disaster rests completely with the adult supervising, and with the parents for not ensuring adequate qualified supervision, which is their joint job. Thais in general do a very poor job at raising kids, and concentrate way too much on creating them without thought as to the future.

Thais in general do a very poor job at raising kids, you say.

So who do you blame for your constant denigration of Thais on every thread imaginable? You clearly enjoy provoking responses to your absurd generalizations. Is life so boring this is the only 'fun' you get?

Perhaps your parents made a poor job or raising you without any thought to the future and how you would turn out.

 

[nausea]

Nil Desperandum as they say, there will be a time for blame, and an inquest, and point scoring, but that time isn't now; let's wait until they open the box and see if the cat's still alive. If you don't have anything positive to contribute like Bangkok Ape maybe you should just go sit at the kiddies table and keep quiet.

[tukkytuktuk]

Day 6, still trapped, still raining, still praying....

 

[tukkytuktuk]

Quote

Don't know if I'm allowed to say this but the London Evening Standard has live updates which are much more frequently updated than either of Thailand's two esteemed English language sites.  Here.  Apologies if this is not allowed but it gives good information.

The journalist in London has better information than the Thai journalist actually at the cave in Chiang Rai?

 

The Thai coverage though is absolutely astounding. Live streams, tv channels, news media channels, tweets, facebook, instagram, line, you name it. Every man and his dog are watching, praying, hoping. It's the first thing you do in the morning, check the latest update. The last thing you do before you go to bed.

 

Do you think the Thai journalist is concerned with the English updates, when this is now international news. CNN, BBC, ABC, etc..

 

I use google translate and search the social media to get the latest news. Then I use google chrome to translate webpages. It's fast and easy to do.

 

Evening Standard, just checked their updates and they're 2-3 hrs behind the latest.

 

No mention of the drilling taking place now.

 

No mention of a local who came forward today with a new possible entry point to the cave.

 

No mention of robots, submersible, lazer mapping, 

 

No mention of the recent interviews with the family members of the trapped boys.

 

Just quotes from this expert and that.

[josephbloggs]

5 minutes ago, tukkytuktuk said:

The journalist in London has better information than the Thai journalist actually at the cave in Chiang Rai?

 

The Thai coverage though is absolutely astounding. Live streams, tv channels, news media channels, tweets, facebook, instagram, line, you name it. Every man and his dog are watching, praying, hoping. It's the first thing you do in the morning, check the latest update. The last thing you do before you go to bed.

 

Do you think the Thai journalist is concerned with the English updates, when this is now international news. CNN, BBC, ABC, etc..

 

I use google translate and search the social media to get the latest news. Then I use google chrome to translate webpages. It's fast and easy to do.

 

Evening Standard, just checked their updates and they're 2-3 hrs behind the latest.

 

No mention of the drilling taking place now.

 

No mention of a local who came forward today with a new possible entry point to the cave.

 

No mention of robots, submersible, lazer mapping, 

 

No mention of the recent interviews with the family members of the trapped boys.

 

Just quotes from this expert and that.

Calm down, I wasn't saying it was the best coverage.  I just find the updates on the two well known sites less frequent.  Until a recent one about drilling on "the other" site there was no update since 11.45am.  Similarly on this one.

 

I'm looking for information just like everyone else,  just trying to share a link which people may find useful - not saying there is nothing better out there on any medium.

[Artisi]

12 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Calm down, I wasn't saying it was the best coverage.  I just find the updates on the two well known sites less frequent.  Until a recent one about drilling on "the other" site there was no update since 11.45am.  Similarly on this one.

 

I'm looking for information just like everyone else,  just trying to share a link which people may find useful - not saying there is nothing better out there on any medium.

It's a shame Thaivisa aren't a bit more pro-active and have a regular update on latest news. I may not be much at times but at least all who are interested are as up todate as we can be. 

[metisdead]

Posts in violation of fair use policy have been removed as well as the replies. 

 

A post containing a news video using Thai language has been removed as this is the English language side of the forum. 

 

Off topic bickering posts and the replies have been removed. 

[KiwiKiwi]

3 hours ago, nausea said:

Nil Desperandum as they say, there will be a time for blame, and an inquest, and point scoring, but that time isn't now; let's wait until they open the box and see if the cat's still alive. If you don't have anything positive to contribute like Bangkok Ape maybe you should just go sit at the kiddies table and keep quiet.

 

And contemplate Schrödinger's cat no doubt. Nah I did that when I was just out of short pants.

 

Have a great day though.

[Wilsonandson]

What we know so far:
Rescuers have punched a hole into the side of a mountain in a desperate attempt to drain rising water from the flooded cave where 12 boys and their soccer coach have been missing for five days.
The effort appeared unsuccessful and the situation remained dire, with no guarantee that the water will soon recede - with months left in Thailand's rainy season.
Divers have been unable to navigate passages filled with muddy water, and rescuers are seeking alternative ways of entering the sprawling cave.
They hope to find hidden shafts in the mountain that might offer a back door into the caverns.
Deputy national police chief Wirachai Songmetta said he will join more than 600 people combing the mountain for possible cracks.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/thailand-cave-rescue-news-live-updates-form-tham-luang-as-us-and-british-join-search-for-12-missing-a3874151.html

Sent from my SM-A700FD using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Wilsonandson]

Latest tweeted photos...

[delphioracle]

The operation  is  being conducted  as well as can be expected given the conditions I am certainly not gong to criticise those involved. We need to remember this is an exceptional incident for Thailand and as such it  is not always easy to decide the best move(s).

 

Well done to those  who have been  and still are involved in the rescue operation , please keep up your work, 

 

However to be a realist I am  of the opinion that considering the water volume and depth as well as the time frame  the chances of  the  group  surviving are  at the best minimal.But we should not lose hope until a full  physical conclusion is reached.

 

Searchers keep on searching, while there is hope on your side and  hopefully on the side of those trapped in this cave system there is still a chance  of a happier outcome.

 

Human beings can  and do survive  some dreadful  situations, 

 

I do hope that my  initial  feeling of pessimism will be proved wrong and realist pessimism is defeated, and families reunited in a better situation

Edited June 29, 2018 by delphioracle

[Ks45672]

20 hours ago, Jingthing said:

There almost definitely is drinkable water. But the issue would be if they're in the right place to find it and see it in the DARK. 

If the flood is rainwater, its worth the risk than dying of thirst 

 

What temperature would the water be down there without any sunshine? 

 

That might be a bigger worry if they can't get dry for nearly a week now 

[tukkytuktuk]

The most moving video of this whole tragedy. Heartbreaking, I challenge you not to cry when you watch this. Things like this bring up all sorts of questions, such as 'If there is a God, then where is he?'.

These poor kids don't deserve to perish in the cave, in the darkness, in the cold. Come on, you up in the sky, help bring our boys home.

 

 

[tukkytuktuk]

Latest from the cave.

 

[tukkytuktuk]

Inspire.

 

[josephbloggs]

14 minutes ago, tukkytuktuk said:

Inspire.

 

That tore me up when it got near the end.

 

And to think there are people posting here looking down at the rescue efforts, making fun of the Thais.  Shameful, shameful, shameful.

 

Heroes one and all.