puukao Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 My contract goes to next April. We changed my schedule, now they want to pay me less. If I don't sign, fired immediately. Is this even worth complaining to the labor department? Should I wait to be fired? I'm not taking a 10000 pay cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhunFred Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Given the choices, I would recommend taking what is offered and that will buy you time. It sounds like they are trying to get rid of you, anyway. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamRoach Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 I guess if you have been there less than 3 months they can get away with paying you only 1 month of severance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post puukao Posted July 2, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted July 2, 2018 I'll turn in my work permit tomorrow, go to immigration and then do a border run. I'm really not signing anything just to be miserable. 5555 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puukao Posted July 2, 2018 Author Share Posted July 2, 2018 (edited) I've been here 17 months. Got a new contract in May. Last day of April Then things got bad. Edited July 2, 2018 by puukao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post stevenl Posted July 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 2, 2018 Don't sign, don't do a visa run, go to labour office first. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamRoach Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 I'm not an expert on this however as you have fixed contract they can choose not to renew it without paying you anything. As you are still currently under contract if they want to get rid of now they will have to pay you 3 months of severance pay. Don't turn in your work permit yourself as this means you resign and they don't have to pay you anything which is what they are hoping for. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post overherebc Posted July 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 2, 2018 They cannot reduce your salary unless mutually agreed. Even if they told you you will be the new toilet cleaner they still cannot reduce what they pay you. Signing a new contract every year makes no difference to your work period considered for severence pay. 3 years or whatever on a single contract is exactly the same as 3 years on yearly contracts. The labour office award severence in disputes based on your continuous tax records not your contracts. Even if you sign a fixed period contract you are still entitled to severence. Them firing you for refusing to sign makes no difference to severence paid. Just make sure anything you sign has been explained to you by the labour office not your employer. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post FritsSikkink Posted July 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 2, 2018 Go to the labor office first and don't listen to people who tell you otherwise. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post FritsSikkink Posted July 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 2, 2018 29 minutes ago, KhunFred said: Given the choices, I would recommend taking what is offered and that will buy you time. It sounds like they are trying to get rid of you, anyway. Very bad advice 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattd Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Your employer is breaking the labour act by doing this, they can improve conditions / salary without your consent, but not the other way around, to lower conditions during the contract period requires both the employer and employee to agree on the terms, to threaten you with the sack is most definitely not correct, as it stands now you would be entitled to 3 months severance pay. Be careful that they do not just lower the conditions without a new contract, if you do not lodge a complaint within 2 to 3 months, then you would be deemed as being complicit. 18 minutes ago, IamRoach said: I'm not an expert on this however as you have fixed contract they can choose not to renew it without paying you anything Not strictly true, an employer cannot just keep issuing back to back fixed contracts, as this would be deemed as continuous employment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overherebc Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 41 minutes ago, KhunFred said: Given the choices, I would recommend taking what is offered and that will buy you time. It sounds like they are trying to get rid of you, anyway. Bad idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overherebc Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 11 minutes ago, Mattd said: Your employer is breaking the labour act by doing this, they can improve conditions / salary without your consent, but not the other way around, to lower conditions during the contract period requires both the employer and employee to agree on the terms, to threaten you with the sack is most definitely not correct, as it stands now you would be entitled to 3 months severance pay. Be careful that they do not just lower the conditions without a new contract, if you do not lodge a complaint within 2 to 3 months, then you would be deemed as being complicit. Not strictly true, an employer cannot just keep issuing back to back fixed contracts, as this would be deemed as continuous employment. Problem being many believe it to be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overherebc Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 My wife had two contracts completed covering 7 years or so with the same company on two different jobs Both construction/fabrication contracts. She moved location along with the rest of her admin staff to the second job. At the end of the second contract the company claimed she was entitled only to severence on the shorter second contract. The labour court checked tax records and awarded severence based on 7 years continuous work for the same company plus one months notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattd Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 5 minutes ago, overherebc said: Problem being many believe it to be true. Assume you mean employers believing that issuing a fixed term contract yearly is OK and a way around paying out severance? I have personal experience with this, as in my previous company we employed Thai seafarers on a trip by trip basis, where they were also paid for their time off, the time came, unfortunately, to reduce the numbers of crew on the books when we sold a vessel, we did not pay out redundancy as we were (wrongly) advised that it wasn't necessary by the legal department, several of the crew took the company to the labour courts and won, the judgement was that, even though they were on a trip by trip contract, the fact that they were being paid 12 months per year deemed it that their employment was continuous and they were awarded compensation according to the number of years with the company in line with labour act. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattd Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, overherebc said: The labour court checked tax records and awarded severence based on 7 years continuous work for the same company plus one months notice. Yes, this is exactly how they do it. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overherebc Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, Mattd said: Yes, this is exactly how they do it. Even if the employers add a paragraph reference 'no severence paid by agreement' the labour department will class it as illegal and may even fine the employer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impulse Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 31 minutes ago, overherebc said: They cannot reduce your salary unless mutually agreed. Even if they told you you will be the new toilet cleaner they still cannot reduce what they pay you. Signing a new contract every year makes no difference to your work period considered for severence pay. 3 years or whatever on a single contract is exactly the same as 3 years on yearly contracts. The labour office award severence in disputes based on your continuous tax records not your contracts. Even if you sign a fixed period contract you are still entitled to severence. Them firing you for refusing to sign makes no difference to severence paid. Just make sure anything you sign has been explained to you by the labour office not your employer. What he said. The labor office frowns on companies pulling that kind of crap to get employees to quit instead of terminating them with severance. This, according to the attorney a group of us hired when our company was going through downsizing. Once your contract goes beyond a year, you're considered a full time, permanent employee for severance purposes. Now, watch out for other tricks, like calling you out (with written warnings) for being late, missing work, taking long lunches, etc. They may try to terminate you with cause, but they need to build a case for it. Of course, you may decide to stay on and accept the 10,000 cut in pay if you have no viable options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puukao Posted July 2, 2018 Author Share Posted July 2, 2018 I will tell them I'm not signing. I've done once before. How will I know for sure they fired me? Sounds funny, but can can call the labor department and somehow I keep working here with my work permit? 55555. I hope once they fire me, someone at the labor department comes here.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norrad Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 I'm going to guess that this is a teaching contract (based on the May start date). In that case you will have major problems getting any severance pay out of your employer as schools are exempt from certain rules. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattd Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, impulse said: Now, watch out for other tricks, like calling you out (with written warnings) for being late, missing work, taking long lunches, etc. They may try to terminate you with cause, but they need to build a case for it. Yes, they may well try to do this, however, this is not as easy as it sounds, the written warning would have to be for the same thing etc. a person can have several written warnings for differing things on record without an issue. It does sound like they are trying to terminate the contract without paying up, by forcing the OP to quit, my advice would be to hang in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattd Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, Norrad said: I'm going to guess that this is a teaching contract (based on the May start date). In that case you will have major problems getting any severance pay out of your employer as schools are exempt from certain rules. Really, I am certainly not aware of this, it is not my line of business, but all employers are subject to the labour act as far as I am aware, do you have any link where it states different? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puukao Posted July 2, 2018 Author Share Posted July 2, 2018 So how will I know I'm fired? I have no problem turnng in my work permit tomorrow. But if not fired, can they blacklist me? If fired, can they blacklist me? Can they do anything else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattd Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, puukao said: So how will I know I'm fired? I have no problem turnng in my work permit tomorrow. But if not fired, can they blacklist me? If fired, can they blacklist me? Can they do anything else? They would have to terminate you under the terms of your contract, i.e. notice period, whether they must serve written termination or not etc. Blacklist in what way? You should keep a diary of every little detail and event, timings, dates etc. so if it goes to court this can be used as evidence, you should keep the offered new contract, unsigned as further evidence. Try to keep all contact written, i.e. on email, this will further help your case. Edited July 2, 2018 by Mattd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puukao Posted July 2, 2018 Author Share Posted July 2, 2018 Can they make it impossible to teach any where else? Like call ministry of education or something.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattd Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, puukao said: Can they make it impossible to teach any where else? Like call ministry of education or something.... Others will know this better than myself, I personally do not see how they could, so long as your record is clean and it is them that are at fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puukao Posted July 2, 2018 Author Share Posted July 2, 2018 How can this go to court,? Is that common? I find that rather crazy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattd Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, puukao said: How can this go to court,? Is that common? I find that rather crazy... It would if you pursue what you are entitled to, the first step would be to visit your local labour department office and explain what has happened, they will then advise on further action, if any. Most cases are settled out of court. It all depends on whether you want to uphold your rights or not, as it would be you taking the school to court. Seek advice from the labour office before you do anything else, they will help you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puukao Posted July 2, 2018 Author Share Posted July 2, 2018 Oh, me take them. 5555. I don't care. If I quit and am not technically fired, or if I'm fired, can they take me to court? I really just want to be done with this place. An important side note:. I gave them a 41 day notice to leave. Contract says 30 days. 41 days is two weeks from now. If I leave then and I'm somehow not fired, am I 100 percent in the clear. I want to leave, they are mad I'm leaving and now doing this I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattd Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 7 minutes ago, puukao said: If I quit and am not technically fired, or if I'm fired, can they take me to court? No, so long as you resign within the terms of your contract, this you are perfectly entitled to do. If you are seriously not worried about getting what you are entitled to under the labour act and are unhappy, then perhaps the best course of action is for you to resign, remembering that this is, of course, exactly what they wanted you to do. Are you on an extension of stay based on work, or a non b visa? (makes a difference of being able to remain in Thailand or not after resigning) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts