Popular Post simple1 Posted July 4, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 4, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, GinBoy2 said: the US contributes 73% of absolute NATO spending in dollar( or Euros or Pounds or whatever you choose) Misinformation sourced from the Trump Administration? . Currently the US contributes approx 22% of the annual NATO budget. More info... Overall, American military spending is 72 percent of the total spent by all 28 allies. But the vast bulk of increased American military spending since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks stemmed from the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, which were instigated by the United States, not NATO. There is little indication that the United States would have spent less money in those wars if Belgium, Spain and Slovakia, for example, had spent more on their militaries. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/26/world/europe/nato-trump-spending.html Edited July 4, 2018 by simple1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 5 hours ago, JCauto said: Really quite amazing to observe how well the dissemination of confusing information and propaganda has worked. Here are today's Right, pleased at the prospect of a Europe dominated by an autocratic and corrupt Russia, abandoning trustworthy allies of decades for the villains they've been competing against. Dutch Reagan would not believe his eyes if he somehow came back to observe this pathetic spectacle. With all due respect, that post is a pile of excrement. Why on Earth should Americans care (spend) more on the Europeans than they would choose to care (spend) on themselves? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolboy Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 1 hour ago, howbri said: "Professional politicians" are what got us into our current mess. I'll take a businessman any day. What mess is that? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnapat Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 Nonsense as usual from someone who will soon be known as a dictator, the very word that Americans loathe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCauto Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 Just now, lannarebirth said: With all due respect, that post is a pile of excrement. Why on Earth should Americans care (spend) more on the Europeans than they would choose to care (spend) on themselves? Your post has little to do with my point, which is how the Right are now parroting policy that is directly opposite to what they have had as core values for 75 years. Interesting how easy it is to abandon these principles. Never mind the moral ones. The issue with regards to the "2%" has been adequately debunked by the NY Times article. How anyone could take anything that Trump says seriously without it being thoroughly fact-checked by a reputable media source is mind boggling. Even most of his supporters understand that he will say anything at any time. Apparently this is part of his genius at negotiation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Briggsy Posted July 4, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 4, 2018 5 hours ago, GinBoy2 said: I'm far from being a Trump supporter The Trumpists favourite opening phrase. Now Trump is telling everybody NATO is bad, all the Trump cult members fall into line, "NATO Bad," they repeat. Trump is very good at destroying agreements. He is very bad at making them or creating legislation or actually achieving anything. Just what Putin and Xi Jinping want. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 37 minutes ago, JCauto said: Your post has little to do with my point, which is how the Right are now parroting policy that is directly opposite to what they have had as core values for 75 years. Interesting how easy it is to abandon these principles. Never mind the moral ones. The issue with regards to the "2%" has been adequately debunked by the NY Times article. How anyone could take anything that Trump says seriously without it being thoroughly fact-checked by a reputable media source is mind boggling. Even most of his supporters understand that he will say anything at any time. Apparently this is part of his genius at negotiation. I don't take aything Trump says seriously, nor should anyone else. I haven't read the NY Times article but if it suggests that Euorpean nations are paying anywhere near their fair share of NATO costs it is likely bullshit. America should be paying 25%-30% of NATO costs at most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolboy Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, lannarebirth said: I don't take aything Trump says seriously, nor should anyone else. I haven't read the NY Times article but if it suggests that Euorpean nations are paying anywhere near their fair share of NATO costs it is likely bullshit. America should be paying 25%-30% of NATO costs at most. Well, maybe you don't take his threats of massive tariff impositions seriously but the Europeans certainly do. And somehow, I don't think the best way to get them to be cooperative is to constantly engage in threats and opprobrium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCauto Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 18 minutes ago, lannarebirth said: I don't take aything Trump says seriously, nor should anyone else. I haven't read the NY Times article but if it suggests that Euorpean nations are paying anywhere near their fair share of NATO costs it is likely bullshit. America should be paying 25%-30% of NATO costs at most. Well, you're going to be pleased to hear that the US only pays 22% of NATO costs. So you should have no issues at all I guess. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 18 minutes ago, bristolboy said: Well, maybe you don't take his threats of massive tariff impositions seriously but the Europeans certainly do. And somehow, I don't think the best way to get them to be cooperative is to constantly engage in threats and opprobrium. Were we talking about tariffs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, JCauto said: Well, you're going to be pleased to hear that the US only pays 22% of NATO costs. So you should have no issues at all I guess. I do not have any issues at all at 22%, not that I believe that is the true cost or that most of those other countries that America pays to defend would be able to mutually defend America if needed. Still, I think you'll agree that 22% is more than it should be. It would be nice if we could free up some money for our citizen's healthcare, the same as our overpaying for everything has freed up those monies for their citizens healthcare. Edited July 4, 2018 by lannarebirth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Small Joke Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 5 hours ago, bristolboy said: Actually, the bizarre thing is on the one hand Trump wants to disengage the USA from a big share of its current defense obligations, but on the other wants to massively build up the military. What exactly for? Robust home defence vs World's Cop. It's aligned with the entire Trump populist agitprop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lampang2 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 Being the #1 warlord is no longer paying off.China has shown that you can dominate / control and make more money without arms. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolboy Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 12 minutes ago, lannarebirth said: Were we talking about tariffs? We were talking about our allies. And I pointed out that angering them over tariffs is not a good way to get cooperation elsewhere. You may not think those economic issues and defense issues are related, but try telling that to the democratically elected leaders of other nations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolboy Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 10 minutes ago, lannarebirth said: I do not have any issues at all at 22%, not that I believe that is the true cost or that most of those other countries that America pays to defend would be able to mutually defend America if needed. Still, I think you'll agree that 22% is more than it should be. It would be nice if we could free up some money for our citizen's healthcare, the same as our overpaying for everything has freed up those monies for their citizens healthcare. That's right. The problem is NATO. Not the massive tax giveway to the wealthy or the fact that Trump is sharply increasing military spending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulic Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, alanrchase said: NATO allies have broken no promises, the agreement gives them until 2024 to achieve spending of 2% GDP. Since its formation the NATO allies have generally been used to do the bidding of the USA. Does anyone believe the US would cut spending and reduce its military if NATO allies spent more? Actually, most NATO countries already are spending the 2% and more. It is simply an accounting issue. The USA puts it's Veterans medical bills into the military budget. The EU countries put it in the national health budget. If the EU uses the same accounting methods as the USA that lifts there military spending over the 2% mark. Edited July 4, 2018 by Ulic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolboy Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 17 minutes ago, lannarebirth said: I do not have any issues at all at 22%, not that I believe that is the true cost or that most of those other countries that America pays to defend would be able to mutually defend America if needed. Still, I think you'll agree that 22% is more than it should be. It would be nice if we could free up some money for our citizen's healthcare, the same as our overpaying for everything has freed up those monies for their citizens healthcare. The US economy is roughly the same size as the EU's. So why is 22% too much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOTIRIOS Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 ...duhh... ...look back through history to see how they filled that piggy bank....!!! ...555...!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srikcir Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 13 hours ago, webfact said: Trump will tell NATO nations U.S. cannot be the world's piggy bank Trump's use of "piggy bank" is quite amusing as he busted whatever remained of that bank with his 2018 tax plan that added immediately $2 trillion to US debt and eventually add an additional $18 trillion to the national debt. http://fortune.com/2018/03/15/us-national-debt-trump-tax-cuts/ His tax plan was predicated on the US GDP growing at 5% pa. With his recent tariff war with US allies including the NATO members, that piggy isn't coming home anytime soon, NATO or not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starky Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 11 hours ago, Boon Mee said: NATO countries need to pay their fair share. Trump is absolutely correct in stating that America will no longer be the world's piggy bank. Is that the piggy bank that nearly <deleted> the world economy and would of had they not been bailed out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolboy Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 1 hour ago, starky said: Is that the piggy bank that nearly <deleted> the world economy and would of had they not been bailed out? So that's why the banking in the EU had a meltdown. It was the fault of the United States and not their own very unwise loans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hummin Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 13 hours ago, Credo said: Why bother to disband it. With Trump around it will probably just fall apart. A russian joke! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hummin Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 13 hours ago, bristolboy said: Towards what? Putin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonmarleesco Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 Piggy banks is where money is put. So, yes, I'd say the US is indeed the world's piggy bank. And I doubt it's going to want to lose the monies it gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCauto Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 18 hours ago, lannarebirth said: I do not have any issues at all at 22%, not that I believe that is the true cost or that most of those other countries that America pays to defend would be able to mutually defend America if needed. Still, I think you'll agree that 22% is more than it should be. It would be nice if we could free up some money for our citizen's healthcare, the same as our overpaying for everything has freed up those monies for their citizens healthcare. Yes, clearly a major priority for the current Congress, hence their decision to try to gut health care funding in order to pay for the Trillion Dollar Tax Cut for the Rich and Corporations. Your current administration clearly has no interest in providing additional funding for health care, they're proposing to cut billions of dollars from it instead in the House budget. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM07 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Yeah...because the US never gets anything out of NATO! They only pay and others party! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srikcir Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 12 hours ago, Jonmarleesco said: Piggy banks is where money is put. No just put but "saved." Just because you put money in a bank (US Treasury in this case) doesn't mean you have no debt. When the US had a budget surplus is when it truly had a "piggy bank." - The U.S. government suffered budget deficits every year from 1970 through 1997. - Democrat Bill Clinton was president in 1998, when the government finally recorded a surplus. - There also were budget surpluses in 1999, 2000 and in 2001. 2001 was the last year the Clinton administration proposed the budget. - Republican George W. Bush succeeded Clinton in 2001. The United States had a budget deficit in 2002, and it has recorded budget deficits every year since. http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/02/03/cnn-fact-check-the-last-president-to-balance-the-budget/ Only Clinton had a piggy bank. And yet somehow the US survived the NATO budget deficits while enjoying and profiting from European economic stability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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