What is the best American bank for someone living in Thailand?

[JimmyJ]

2 hours ago, suzannegoh said:

I intend to switch it back to the Thai timezone when done with my banking but I often forget to do so.  The easy way to do it in Win10 is to create batch files or just type from the command line:

To change to US East Coast timezone:
tzutil /s "Eastern Standard Time"
 

To change to Thailand’s timezone:
tzutil /s "SE Asia Standard Time"
 

To see what timezone your system is currently set to:
tzutil /g
 

To get a list of all valid timezones:
tzutil /l

Does that mean that one inserts what you've written - e.g. tzutil /l  - into an Administrative Command Prompt?

[elgenon]

19 hours ago, james1995 said:

I receive all my legit freelance business earnings into my trusty little fidelity account.  Wonderful little atm card.  I don't pay any atms fees and never will again.

I have a Fidelity account and everytime I mention what you said to them they say they don't know about it. My friend who is a VP called the appropriate department and they did not know about it. Anyone in particular do you recommend contacting (contact details?)? Maybe it depends on your type of account? I gave up.

[tweedledee2]

I use the NY branch of Bangkok Bank for transfers and have set-up transfers from 3 US sources over the last 4 years. The newest one 3 months ago. Each one required verification of my account by making two small under $1 deposits. To verify the deposits, I called the main Bangkok Bank and obtain the amounts in US currency. When you call you have to follow the prompts to be transferred to the correct department. It took less than 10 minutes each time. Never had any problems. 

  My suggestion to the OP is once he has set-up his NY branch account he should have all his benefit funds deposited into his AACFU account. Then use their online bill pay to transfer funds to NY. This would eliminate all the overdraw fees and charges.  I can make unlimited $2000 transfers with no fees online.

[suzannegoh]

Does that mean that one inserts what you've written - e.g. tzutil /l  - into an Administrative Command Prompt?

Yes, but it doesn't require administrator privileges, it will also work from a non-elevated command line.

[suzannegoh]

I have a Fidelity account and everytime I mention what you said to them they say they don't know about it. My friend who is a VP called the appropriate department and they did not know about it. Anyone in particular do you recommend contacting (contact details?)? Maybe it depends on your type of account? I gave up.

I have a Fidelity brokerage account with a mid six figure balance. They sent me an ATM card without me asking for one, and while their online documentation says that they may charge a 1% foreign transaction fee in practice they do not charge that fee. And they automatically refund Thailand 220 baht ATM fee to boot.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, elgenon said:

I have a Fidelity account and everytime I mention what you said to them they say they don't know about it. My friend who is a VP called the appropriate department and they did not know about it. Anyone in particular do you recommend contacting (contact details?)? Maybe it depends on your type of account? I gave up.

 

\

 

https://www.fidelity.com/bin-public/060_www_fidelity_com/documents/Brokerage_Commissions_Fee_Schedule.pdf

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

14 minutes ago, suzannegoh said:

I have a Fidelity brokerage account with a mid six figure balance. They sent me an ATM card without me asking for one, and while their online documentation says that they may charge a 1% foreign transaction fee in practice they do not charge that fee. And they automatically refund Thailand 220 baht ATM fee to boot.

 

 

I don't have a Fidelity account, so I can't speak from personal experience.

 

But in the past, other members here to who have the Fidelity account have confirmed they're not charging the 1% FCF on ATM withdrawals (despite their documents that say they do), but may be charging it on POS purchases made abroad.

 

I think the main point, either way, is they're not charging the foreign currency fee on foreign ATM withdrawals with their card for qualifying accounts. What Fidelity currently requires to be considered "qualifying," I don't know.

 

And here's Fidelity's own website re their Visa debit card:

 

https://www.fidelity.com/cash-management/atm-debit-card

 

Get reimbursed for all ATM fees when using the card as part of a Fidelity^® Cash Management Account.¹ Reimbursements are also available with a Fidelity brokerage account.²

 

[For their Cash management accounts]

1. All Fidelity ATM withdrawal fees will be waived for your Fidelity^® Cash Management Account. In addition, your account will automatically be reimbursed for all ATM fees charged by other institutions while using a Fidelity^® Visa^® Gold Check Card linked to your account at any ATM displaying the Visa^®, Plus^®, or Star^® logos. ATM reimbursements will be credited to the account when the transaction posts. Please note, there is a foreign transaction fee of one percent that is not waived, which will be included in the amount charged to your account.
 

[For their brokerage accounts]

2. For all Fidelity Account^® owners coded Premium, Private Client Group, or with household annual trading activity of 120 or more stock, bond, or options trades, all Fidelity ATM withdrawal fees will be waived and your account will automatically be reimbursed for all ATM fees charged by other institutions while using a Fidelity^® Visa^® Gold Check Card linked to your account at any ATM displaying the Visa^®, Plus^® or Star^® logos. Please review the Fidelity ATM/Debit Card Fee & Reimbursement Schedule for additional information. ATM reimbursements will be credited to the account when the transaction posts. Please note, there is a foreign transaction fee of one percent that is not waived, which will be included in the amount charged to your account.

 

 

Edited July 6, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

That said, if I were given a choice between opening a new Schwab account vs a Fidelity account, I'd take the Schwab account every time.

 

Schwab at least has a track record of being reasonably benign toward expats. Fidelity, on the other hand, has a track record of being fairly punitive if they determine their account holder is living abroad.

 

[suzannegoh]

13 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

That said, if I were given a choice between opening a new Schwab account vs a Fidelity account, I'd take the Schwab account every time.

 

Schwab at least has a track record of being reasonably benign toward expats. Fidelity, on the other hand, has a track record of being fairly punitive if they determine their account holder is living abroad.

 

It seems like Fidelity doesn't go out of its way to find out that you are living outside of the US but if you volunteer that information to them they will block you from buying mutual funds and maybe subject you to other restrictions.

Edited July 6, 2018 by suzannegoh

[Sheryl]

I use the NY branch of Bangkok Bank for transfers and have set-up transfers from 3 US sources over the last 4 years. The newest one 3 months ago. Each one required verification of my account by making two small under $1 deposits. To verify the deposits, I called the main Bangkok Bank and obtain the amounts in US currency. When you call you have to follow the prompts to be transferred to the correct department. It took less than 10 minutes each time. Never had any problems. 
  My suggestion to the OP is once he has set-up his NY branch account he should have all his benefit funds deposited into his AACFU account. Then use their online bill pay to transfer funds to NY. This would eliminate all the overdraw fees and charges.  I can make unlimited $2000 transfers with no fees online.

Is it really worth all this trouble just to avoid Swift transfer fees when you make less than one transfer a year?

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[JimmyJ]

5 hours ago, chingching said:

Would you seriously think, if they cared about your ip address, that they do not also cross-reference ip addresses of VPN's.  There really aren't that many of them.  They already have a list of every 'mailbox etc',  private mailing address, and can immediately tell you if the address you are giving them is not a real residence. 

The VPN is also protection. It sends everything out encrypted.

It protects one when using WiFi in public places.

 

I use it all the time.

[JimmyJ]

Did you people notify your  banks/credit card companies initially that you would be "taking a vacation" in Thailand/SE Asia to avoid them having identity theft concerns and blocking transactions?

[suzannegoh]

1 minute ago, JimmyJ said:

The VPN is also protection. It sends everything out encrypted.

It protects one when using WiFi in public places.

 

I use it all the time.

By now VPN's are pretty mainstream.  NordVPN even advertises on CNN in the US, so I'm assuming that there are pretty many people who legitimately reside in the US use a VPN when connecting to financial institutions.  Though I know of some examples, such as Delta Airlines, who block you if they know that you are using a VPN, doing that seems like a better way to piss off customers than to detect that customers are lying about where they live.  Maybe using a VPN plus using a remailer's address as your "residential" address would prompt them to take a closer look, but I don't see where using a VPN is in itself suspicious.

[suzannegoh]

6 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

Did you people notify your  banks/credit card companies initially that you would be "taking a vacation" in Thailand/SE Asia to avoid them having identity theft concerns and blocking transactions?

I think that I did but it's been a decade since I left the US so I don't recall clearly.  I've had my cards blocked before when traveling and had to call to get them unlocked.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

Did you people notify your  banks/credit card companies initially that you would be "taking a vacation" in Thailand/SE Asia to avoid them having identity theft concerns and blocking transactions?

 

For my debit card accounts, these days, I need to make a "travel notification" with them. Some institutions, just once is enough. Others require that I renew/update it periodically. Some just want a blanket notification and don't care about the destination. Others want to know the specific country/countries.

 

As long as you keep your travel notifications up-to-date, you shouldn't have any problem with declined transactions. But it's up to the individual account holder to learn and understand just how each different institution handles their travel notification rules.

 

The ones I deal with don't really care how often or why I'm traveling. They just want to know if I am, so that the proper status can be attached to the card account.

 

 

Edited July 6, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

30 minutes ago, suzannegoh said:

It seems like Fidelity doesn't go out of its way to find out that you are living outside of the US but if you volunteer that information to them they will block you from buying mutual funds and maybe subject you to other restrictions.

 

I generally agree with that sentiment (which reinforces my prior advice about never volunteering out of country status), though Fidelity's response in past cases has including going to "other restrictions" and not just forbidding the sale of U.S. mutual funds.

 

Here's one of our past threads on the subject:

 

 

[suzannegoh]

10 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I generally agree with that sentiment (which reinforces my prior advice about never volunteering out of country status), though Fidelity's response in past cases has including going to "other restrictions" and not just forbidding the sale of U.S. mutual funds.

 

Here's one of our past threads on the subject:

 

 

That’s the source of my paranoid and <perhaps> excess caution.  It doesn’t matter to me that Alex Jonesers and people with a “Freeman On The Land” philosophy mock that – they also say that you don’t have to pay income taxes.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I always say, in these matters, it's better to be overly cautious than it is to potentially get caught out and have an account frozen or closed or have the entity insist you present yourself in their stateside office in order to remedy things.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

BTW, for the uninitiated here, Google searches can be your good friend in terms of finding good U.S. banking options for expats.

 

If you search for terms like "best debit card for international travel" or "no foreign currency fee" or "foreign ATM fee reimbursements," you'll find writeups like the following:

 

https://www.cntraveler.com/story/the-best-debit-card-for-international-travel

(mentions both Schwab and Fidelity)

 

https://aaacreditguide.com/best-debit-cards-for-international-travel/

(mentions Schwab and Cap One 360, the latter doesn't charge any FCF but also doesn't reimburse foreign ATM fees)

 

https://www.creditkarma.com/credit-cards/i/no-fee-debit-cards-for-international-travel/

(mentions Schwab, Fidelity and Cap One 360)

 

There also are a lot of smaller local banks and credit unions that offer similar perks to their account holders, but they're not necessarily national and don't always allow online account openings.

 

Just wanted to post a few links to illustrate there's a lot of pertinent and helpful information out there for anyone trying to understand the lay of the land and their options.

[Pib]

7 hours ago, carken said:

Been in Thailand 12 years ... I set up USAA Bank account on line (no need to go to brick/mortar building in person) I've been using USAA bank for 6 years ... In my 80 years of life I find USAA Bank easiest bank ever to do business with .... they even give U back ATM fees that Thai bank/ATM chrges U (up to $15) . I cannot now or ever find anything negative or bad about USAA Bank.

 

Use your USAA Bank ATM card here in Thailand to immediately withdraw any/all your funds in your account ... or withdraw some and ACH transfer balance of funds into secondary US/Thai bank .... U are limited to 20,000 Baht on any or all ATM withdrawals, but you can do 1, 2, 3 or more withdrawals every day if U need 2. Depending on the daily withdrawal amount limit/ceiling  that U and USAA Bank decide on

 

USAA Bank also allows U to use your address here in Thailand as a home address on your account ... that way when ATM card expires your new ATM card will arrive at your Thai home B4 current ATM card expires

 

 

Unless something has changed since the last time I asked USAA about the daily transaction limit a year or so ago, the daily transaction limit for their debit card is $600 which works out to approx Bt19.2K at the current exchange rate.  While their website says reimbursements apply to ATM in the U.S., they will also generally reimburse "non-U.S." ATM fees up to $15/month.   

 

But the one downside to their debit card is they charge a 1% foreign transaction fee....the fee does not reflect separately on your account but is mixed in with the ATM withdrawal amount....this can fool some folks into thinking no fee was applied but it was....this effectively lowers the exchange rate by 1%.   Now, the ATM "reimbursement" does appear separately on your account.   

 

USAA "credit" cards use to charge a 1% foreign transaction fee also, but that was dropped to zero about 2 years ago...but their "debit" card retains the 1% foreign transaction fee.     

 

From USAA Website

https://www.usaa.com/inet/wc/banking_secure_checking_service_fees_terms

[Pib]

5 hours ago, kolohe said:

With regards to transferring money to Thailand, I would recommend using Transferwise. They are an online money transfer service (also have an app for your phone). They are way cheaper than WU, MoneyGram, or SWIFT transfers through from a bank. They ACH from your bank, they have really good exchange rates. They do charge a service fee but their exchange rates are so much better than the others that you come out ahead even if WU/MG has a cheaper fee. When you start setting up the transfer they give you a rate quote that is guaranteed for 24 hours. As of this writing, I can transfer USD to THB for 11.90 in fees and I would have a guaranteed rate of 33.21000.

 

Just for others listening in, that $11.90 fee would be for transferring $1000; not just any amount. 

 

The fee varies by amount transferred.  Example: $1000 would be $11.90, $2K would be $21.81 in fees, $5K would be $51.55 in fees, etc.  However, Transferwise's higher exchange rate will fully offset their higher sending fees up to around the $4K point depending on exchange rate.  Generally for amounts less that approx $4K Transferwise would put more baht into your Thai bank account after considering "exchange rate plus all fees along the way"; for amounts above $4K the Bangkok Bank via ACH method would put more baht in your account.

[suzannegoh]

 
Just for others listening in, that $11.90 fee would be for transferring $1000; not just any amount. 
 
The fee varies by amount transferred.  Example: $1000 would be $11.90, $2K would be $21.81 in fees, $5K would be $51.55 in fees, etc.  However, Transferwise's higher exchange rate will fully offset their higher sending fees up to around the $4K point depending on exchange rate.  Generally for amounts less that approx $4K Transferwise would put more baht into your Thai bank account after considering "exchange rate plus all fees along the way"; for amounts above $4K the Bangkok Bank via ACH method would put more baht in your account.

When I was transferring over money to buy a house (about 18 months ago) I found that Kasikorn was generally offering an exchange rate on TT transfers that was about 0.1 baht/dollar better than Bangkok Bank's TT rate and that that was enough to make a wire transfer to Kasikorn more economical.

[Sheryl]

Did you people notify your  banks/credit card companies initially that you would be "taking a vacation" in Thailand/SE Asia to avoid them having identity theft concerns and blocking transactions?

My billing address is in Thailand (though I pay thru autopay on my US acct). So they know where I am and usually no problem with payments within Thailand. I have to use travel notification function if I go to another country inc. back to the US.

 

Main problems I've had re blocked charges were online purchases as one never knows what country will show as vendor address.

 

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

[tweedledee2]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Is it really worth all this trouble just to avoid Swift transfer fees when you make less than one transfer a year?

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Maybe for you not so much, but paying a fee or doing it for free does to me. The process you use to finance your living in Thailand can't be utilized by many others and probably shouldn't be.  By limiting transfer to one each year puts you at a disadvantage for exchange rates. If you had transferred $20,000 in May, you would have gotten around 620,000 baht. The same amount today 660,000 baht.  But my post was directed as one solution to the problems the OP was having regarding his finances.  My suggestion to have his SS check deposited into the US bank serves at least 2 purposes. The first being it will help avoid future overdraft charges.  Paying bank fees is like throwing money away.  Second, he can go online and check his balance, pay his bills, adjust his budget accordingly and transfer funds to Bangkok NY when needed.  Also, the SSA will not be alerted to the fact he is living outside the US and he might avoid having to file the annual "are you still alive" form. Linking his US bank account is easy to do. If he can't complete it with his current bank, setting up an account with another bank probably won't help.  

   What is really unfair to the OP is his topic has been hijacked. He didn't ask for advice on Schwabe, Fidelity, VPN's, credit cards, Transferwise or any other topic.

[Pib]

17 minutes ago, suzannegoh said:

22 minutes ago, Pib said:

 
Just for others listening in, that $11.90 fee would be for transferring $1000; not just any amount. 
 
The fee varies by amount transferred.  Example: $1000 would be $11.90, $2K would be $21.81 in fees, $5K would be $51.55 in fees, etc.  However, Transferwise's higher exchange rate will fully offset their higher sending fees up to around the $4K point depending on exchange rate.  Generally for amounts less that approx $4K Transferwise would put more baht into your Thai bank account after considering "exchange rate plus all fees along the way"; for amounts above $4K the Bangkok Bank via ACH method would put more baht in your account.

When I was transferring over money to buy a house (about 18 months ago) I found that Kasikorn was generally offering an exchange rate on TT transfers that was about 0.1 baht/dollar better than Bangkok Bank's TT rate and that that was enough to make a wire transfer to Kasikorn more economical.

Definitely good to compare exchange rates to where you can get the best deal with fees considered. 

 

For those listening in, a person can quickly compare exchange rate between various Thai banks at this web site at this website:

https://daytodaydata.net/default.aspx

 

Below is a snapshot from the website taken at 5:55pm today/6July.   Although below snapshot shows Bangkok Bank beat K-bank on TT Buying Rate today (ie., 33.05 compared to 33.03) the snapshot is comparing Bangkok Bank's opening and "only" rate for the entire day of 33.05.  Typically they may have several rate changes during the day but today they kept their opening rate called Update 1 throughout the day.  Some banks change rates frequently throughout the day; others not so much....depends on how the forex markets are varying.

 

When looking at the K-bank website they had 5 rate changes during the day varying from 33.03 to 33.10 with their final/closing rate for the date (Update 5) being 33.03.  

 

Usually since international transfers from places like the U.S. and Europe (the other side of the world) arrive overnight Thailand time when Thai banks are closed, when the Thai bank opens and finalizes/posts the international transfer usually early in the morning their Opening Rate (a.k.a., Update 1) is the exchange rate still in effect and the one given.

 

 

[KhunFred]

This answer shows part of the problem. I have never had 800 thousand baht or the equivalent in the bank at one time, in my entire life. Some of us have lived paycheck to paycheck and socked away money into an annuity and (in my case) a state retirement fund. People who have the luxury of transferring 20 thousand dollars at one time have been living in an entirely different financial world to the one I live in. This is why I use the monthly income method. Between Social Security, my state retirement payment and my annuity payment. I more than qualify for retirement here. That income does not protect me from making stupid decisions, though. I have begun to solve part of the problem by transferring several of the credit card balances to my Discover card. That will give me more time, plus I might well be dead by the time this becomes a problem again. Pin the tail on the donkey.

[suzannegoh]

31 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

This answer shows part of the problem. I have never had 800 thousand baht or the equivalent in the bank at one time, in my entire life. Some of us have lived paycheck to paycheck and socked away money into an annuity and (in my case) a state retirement fund. People who have the luxury of transferring 20 thousand dollars at one time have been living in an entirely different financial world to the one I live in. This is why I use the monthly income method. Between Social Security, my state retirement payment and my annuity payment. I more than qualify for retirement here. That income does not protect me from making stupid decisions, though. I have begun to solve part of the problem by transferring several of the credit card balances to my Discover card. That will give me more time, plus I might well be dead by the time this becomes a problem again. Pin the tail on the donkey.

Even though most farang here would have you understand that they were a captain of industry before moving to Thailand, your situation is pretty common.  The median savings account balance in the US is $5200, and that makes me suspect that a significant portion of the farang millionaires hanging out in bars in Thailand are exaggerating about their wealth and previous success.  But even so, the rules of internationally banking apply equally to most people regardless of income bracket.

Edited July 6, 2018 by suzannegoh

[james1995]

6 hours ago, suzannegoh said:

I have a Fidelity brokerage account with a mid six figure balance. They sent me an ATM card without me asking for one, and while their online documentation says that they may charge a 1% foreign transaction fee in practice they do not charge that fee. And they automatically refund Thailand 220 baht ATM fee to boot.

 

The 1% fee is for purchases I think.  ATM withdrawals don't have any fees whatsoever.  I know because I use it all the time and I get better rates than $100 bills.

[kolohe]

9 hours ago, Pib said:

 

Just for others listening in, that $11.90 fee would be for transferring $1000; not just any amount. 

 

The fee varies by amount transferred.  Example: $1000 would be $11.90, $2K would be $21.81 in fees, $5K would be $51.55 in fees, etc.  However, Transferwise's higher exchange rate will fully offset their higher sending fees up to around the $4K point depending on exchange rate.  Generally for amounts less that approx $4K Transferwise would put more baht into your Thai bank account after considering "exchange rate plus all fees along the way"; for amounts above $4K the Bangkok Bank via ACH method would put more baht in your account.

Yes, thank you. I forgot to add that it was for $1000 USD. I only transfer small amounts like this. I thought this could be a potential solution for the OP since he really just needs to send small amounts for his monthly expenses -- which is what I use it for. Then he'd have sufficient funds in his US account to pay his US bills. This is the same set-up I use, for the same reasons. 

[chingching]

12 hours ago, suzannegoh said:

That income does not protect me from making stupid decisions, though. I have begun to solve part of the problem by transferring several of the credit card balances to my Discover card. That will give me more time, plus I might well be dead by the time this becomes a problem again. Pin the tail on the donkey.

No matter where you live paying off your debt should be your #1 priority.  Credit card interest is 21% , annually, in the USA.  

I looked at Schwab as it was mentioned so much.  As a non-resident of USA you cannot get a checking account only, It must be linked to a brokerage account.  And you must apply through the Singapore Branch ( for anyone living in Thailand) I don't know if the brokerage side charges for inactivity if u don't actively trade stocks.  Also there is a minimum 25K usd to open.