Tham Luang cave: As water levels recede, rescuers inclined to evacuate stranded 13 before rains aggravate floods

[robblok]

6 minutes ago, jossthaifarang said:

Keeping looking mate, I suggested a suit which encapsulates them earlier, something you would never have thought of.

 

Anyway, I'm not on here to argue with you..

That idea came up way back in an other topic... not original and not doable as there are passages where they have to take off the air tanks they are wearing. That is hard if not impossible to do with what your suggesting. 

 

I think most people here don't dive and have never been in caves. I have been in caves and I do dive, but havent done cave dives. But if they (experts) say there are points where the scuba tank has to get off you can imagine its a pretty tight fit and suits that encapsulate them will not pass through.

 

 

[robblok]

9 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

No, they need to try to get them out asap, i think they realize they cannot guarantee that the cave they are in will also flood. My post was in response to the one i quoted which said he foresaw no problem diving and trekking them out.

That is the whole point, the getting them out diving might be the best option but its not as risk free as people seem to think. I am sure the experts have thought of letting them stay there and drilling and diving and have come to the conclusion diving is the only way. We are all here making assumptions on the information we get but I am sure that those in charge will make the least risky choice.

[Stargeezr]

If a professional diver has already died, it may be best to try get the boys as soon as

possible. Waiting for the rain to come and no gaurantee that the present place won't

get totally flooded or some of the team does not get sick, may be another reason.

[Media1]

As l said. A bit slow but good luck. Hope the parents get there boys back

[stevenl]

2 minutes ago, robblok said:

That is the whole point, the getting them out diving might be the best option but its not as risk free as people seem to think. I am sure the experts have thought of letting them stay there and drilling and diving and have come to the conclusion diving is the only way. We are all here making assumptions on the information we get but I am sure that those in charge will make the least risky choice.

Of course it is not risk free.

 

But I'm saying it is safer than any of the other options, not as risky as some seem to think, and I am predicting all will come out safe and sound. I'm also sayi9ng, and have been saying so for some time already, that today, latest tomorrow, would be the best time.

[robblok]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

Of course it is not risk free.

 

But I'm saying it is safer than any of the other options, not as risky as some seem to think, and I am predicting all will come out safe and sound. I'm also sayi9ng, and have been saying so for some time already, that today, latest tomorrow, would be the best time.

I don't know if its safer, the experts seem to think so otherwise they would not attempt this. So I go with the experts. (we get our info from the press they are there on site so i take it they know best)

 

I think we agree then that its not risk free, I hope your right with your prediction, but i feel (hope I am wrong) that there might be casualties. I guess I just estimate the risks to be more severe as you do. That does not mean it should not be done. 

[janclaes47]

41 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Now that one of the real HEROES,  a very skilled, former Seal has died in the dive the boys may need to do,

 

Try to keep up, the seal didn't die in the dive, he died because lack of oxygen in the cave chamber.

[cornishcarlos]

I really hope for a successful outcome, as does everyone.

However, after the death of a trained diver, I can see any attempt to swim the boys out will be a lot tougher than was 1st thought.

This is a race against time and I pray the right choices are made by those making the choices !!

[holy cow cm]

1 hour ago, dave moir said:

Why do you knock Thai navy seals? Just think how good Gurkha's are!!!! Asian people who are world renowned!!!! It's a very difficult job to get those kids out, would you have the balls to do it? ???

Yes, I am an adventurer and enjoy risk taking. I have hiked in many of caves in Thailand. Have you? So, you do know one Thai Navy Seal just died don't you? Almost my case and point. RIP to the diver.

[Gazman1]

49 minutes ago, Oziex1 said:

 

Send a rescue crew of Thai Visa posters they have all the answers.

 I'm sure they could get the kids out safely, after they finish arguing with each other.

This is the best post I have read on here, some others want to expose their lunacy by putting their uninformed thoughts in writing leaving no doubt as to their abilities in managing any sort of disaster.  And if anybody asks yes I do have experience in disaster management from an operational direction perspective.  The thought that people are saying the Thai Govt would not be taking advice from international teams as well as their own is ludicrous especially that the international contingents would only be in Thailand by invitation which is standard international protocols.

[Eric Loh]

CNN has a piece that reads “ex-navy SEAL Cade Courtley predicts fatalities if Thai kids dive”. Citing the difficulties in the diving option. Seem finding an alternative passageway seem the safer option, 

[stevenl]

3 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

CNN has a piece that reads “ex-navy SEAL Cade Courtley predicts fatalities if Thai kids dive”. Citing the difficulties in the diving option. Seem finding an alternative passageway seem the safer option, 

He started with 'we have the option of time', which seems not correct. On top of that, he is not on site and hasn't been on site, so his knowledge is the same level of ours.

Edited July 6, 2018 by stevenl

[Mansell]

They just announced on the BBC it was a former Navy Seal who died, so we have no idea his age. But RIP brother, he was volunteering to help. I think they might have to rethink the whole diving thing to get the boys out. If a Seal can die and he's experienced it doesn't give the boys much of a chance with no experience. Calmer heads need to think this thing through....hopefully the Brits are still on the scene. 

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

CNN has a piece that reads “ex-navy SEAL Cade Courtley predicts fatalities if Thai kids dive”. Citing the difficulties in the diving option. Seem finding an alternative passageway seem the safer option, 

I think there might be fatalities too (hope not) but its risky. But those in charge probably think there will be more fatalities if they stay. Maybe they know the cave will flood completely during the rain season or that drilling would have even higher risks. I think none of the options are risk free and assume those in charge will choose the least dangerous one.

[seajae]

I have seen adults go into a panic in 10' of clear water when learning to dive when they realize they are fully submerged, to some it is scary and they cannot control what they do. As part of a course, we had to follow a rope through an old wreck(around 20' of water) with our masks fully taped up so we could not see, it was all done by feel, we had to go though small openings where removal of our tanks was required, at one stage we came out of the water only to then go back under, several refused to go back in. Again it is a persons mind that causes it, full blackout night dives when you can see nothing, you have to follow compass bearings for hundreds of meters, again it requires nerves to not panic or let your mind take over. Cave diving is different again, you know you cannot surface so require very strong nerves/mental discipline not to panic, these kids will be going through very similar things if they have to swim out, it will not be easy and my worry is that they may well lose it and panic, people saying it is easy are very wrong, it is not. I really hope they are able to drill a rescue shaft or find another entrance, the thought of the kids having to swim out really worries me

Edited July 6, 2018 by seajae

[holy cow cm]

50 minutes ago, JAG said:

They are almost certainly the best that Thailand has. They are certainly doing the very best that they can. One has died in the operation already. Remember that cave diving, and rescue techniques in flooded caves will not be amongst the skills that they train in and practice. I should imagine that they are picking the brains of the few experts there (few because there are precious few on the planet)!

 

I too am cynical about the quality of much of the Thai military. These men however deserve praise and respect. After all, you would have to anaethatise me (and many others here) to get me down there

 

 

 

Yes they are the best Thailand has, but not so sure as in most things should be compared of thought of as the complete real deal as being distinguished as a seal. Not sure if it is a military ego thing to use them or not as I would think there would be better qualified personal somewhere in the world waiting to jump in. Even divers for oil rigs might be better as they live the life daily. Not knocking them and one did just die, and the shot plan caller has to live with that as the boys will also feel some responsibility for his death too! As they don't have enough sadness and problems that will stay with them for a long time. 

[Derek B]

3 hours ago, smutcakes said:

I think you have 0 experience cave diving, not not much.

 

Its like pot holing in murky sometimes blind conditions, with current, with kids with zero experience and some who allegedly cannot swim. It takes Navy Seals 5 hours to dive and trek there and the conditions the world leaders said were 'gnarly' apparently meaning their were complications and difficulties. And you think there are no problems trying to guide these kids through that? If one panicked in a tight area, ripped off their mask, tossed up silt into the passage etc etc they could all be screwed. I have been caving a number of times and even in water less conditions, on known routes it is pretty terrifying and dangerous squeezing through and around these shafts

Don't forget the boys are smaller in size than the average SEAL and probably not as fully aware of the risks and therefore less fearful as adults.

I just think all kids should be taught to swim in school along with road safety - catch them young so to speak.

[toofarnorth]

3 hours ago, utalkin2me said:

It may take a long time for each extraction via diving, but they have time right now. It would seriously be difficult for a nimble young, rubber boned thai to die while scuba diving in there as he would habe insurance divers on either side of him in case anything happens. They are not diving 30k leagues under the sea here where decompression comes i to play.

 

To me it is obvious it is way more dangerous to stay in there... if any sudden change i weather happens, which as we all know it can rain cats and dogs from nowhere, now you have no moves left. No time.

 

I think there is someone at the top afraid to pull the trigger for fear of making a mistake. This would be like not getting a hostage or two out of a hostage situation while you have the chance. You just don't wait for the time to be perfect in cases like this.

I think so much is riding on your last paragraph.  Somebody at the top has to make a suggestion , someone has to agree with it but ultimately a high up bod has to put his arse on the line and this won't be a time to stick two fingers up .  There are very few at the cave brave enough and important enough to make a decision with the world watching on. Get it wrong and it will never be forgotten .

 

[Eric Loh]

I just wonder who will make the evacuation decision. By the way, who is now in charge??? The governor is gone, the Interior Minister no where near the site and the PM tactically not involved. 

[cookieqw]

1 hour ago, Coconut Kidd said:

Put a DESCO or similar over pressure/free flow dive helmet/air hat (water cannot get it and very difficult to pull off) on the boys, sedate them and have Navy Seals and other qualified professional take them out one at a time.

Yes I think mild sedation is the way to go will maybe stop panic attacks at least.

i don’t know anything about helmets but they should be used as well. Good luck to all anyway  

[Zack61]

[wazzupnow]

12 and 13 years old that can not swim? amazing thailand again , when will they reach the 20th century

[NoshowJones]

4 hours ago, stevenl said:

You're wrong, I have done some cave diving in Yucatan.

And I trust children diving, they are resilient and have especially now the will power. Silt will hardly matter, visibility is zilch anyway. With one in front, one in the back per kid, breathing from long hose from one of the others, regular breaks, diving with the current, they'll be ok.

You have made me feel a bit better about this StevenL

[Max66]

Navy SEAL  just  died in cave an hour ago.  Due to lack of oxygen. 

[Toshiba66]

2 minutes ago, Max66 said:

Navy SEAL  just  died in cave an hour ago.  Due to lack of oxygen. 

We all became aware about 3 hours ago. Please read previous threads.

[cornishcarlos]

1 hour ago, janclaes47 said:

 

Try to keep up, the seal didn't die in the dive, he died because lack of oxygen in the cave chamber.

 

That's not the report on BBC !! It quotes another rescuer who says he was on his way back from the cavern and ran out of air...

[holy cow cm]

Now being Friday and clear weather is the time to move and time to get them out before the Saturday forecasted thunderstorms hit. That cave does not look like it doesn't fill up to the brim at one time or the other and going back to building block 1 to repump all the water out after a new storm dumps seems like a bad move. As for Big P and Small p, they constantly always have their noses in everything else down to how Lumyai twerks, so they need to step up and say go for it and be real men. Besides, article 44 and personal amnesty should protect them if for some reason something more went afoul.

[JetSetFvr]

As a diver I wish to make a suggestion for rescue teams.  Since the kids can't swim and risk losing grip of the guide rope I strongly suggest Seal divers attach the kids to the guide rope and use another rope to pull them along the line. A seal diver should swim aside them. Better yet, tie to kids to the diver in front that will tow them along. All they will have to do is put their hands at their side and kick. This will keep them from getting tired and any extreme panic!!  400 yards is a LONG distance for anyone to swim let along kids with NO experience.

 

panic will happen if they don't use this, at least, as a back up plan.  SU SU BOYS!!

Edited July 6, 2018 by JetSetFvr
edit

[JetSetFvr]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

CNN has a piece that reads “ex-navy SEAL Cade Courtley predicts fatalities if Thai kids dive”. Citing the difficulties in the diving option. Seem finding an alternative passageway seem the safer option, 

That's CNN for ya..........the drama news network that has ZERO ability to be confident and positive about anything.  DRAMA tabloid news.

[HHTel]

There's a video of the extremely narrow gap that these kids would have to go through, basically on their own:

 

From twitter: