Trump claims NATO victory after ultimatum to go it alone

[canuckamuck]

2 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

So exactly when did being a liberal become such a terrible thing?

Liberalism gave you the right to vote.

Liberalism gave you equality.

Liberalism gave you your inalienable rights.

Liberalism gave you free speech.

 

Liberalism is the enemy of tyrants and despots and the only reason why this joke is being constrained in his endeavors. Liberalism's political doctrine takes protecting and enhancing the freedom of the individual to the centre of politics. Liberals typically believe that government is necessary to protect individuals from being harmed by others, but they also recognize that government itself can pose a threat to liberty whilst bestowing virtues such as equality, pluralism, and toleration.

You should be bloody grateful that liberals are around.   

Liberalism is one side of the process. Liberalism is ideological and experimental. It is needed to peer past the boundaries and to try new things. Conservatism is restraint and the reliance on lessons learned, wisdom if you will. Both are necessary for progress. One takes you to new places and keeps you alive. The world has been shifting to the liberal end for 60 years already. A little time for reassessment is necessary to determine if you are still on a good path. Trump is determined to pull in the reigns and do things with a little more logic and a lot less emotion. It's dearly needed.

[bristolboy]

22 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Liberalism is one side of the process. Liberalism is ideological and experimental. It is needed to peer past the boundaries and to try new things. Conservatism is restraint and the reliance on lessons learned, wisdom if you will. Both are necessary for progress. One takes you to new places and keeps you alive. The world has been shifting to the liberal end for 60 years already. A little time for reassessment is necessary to determine if you are still on a good path. Trump is determined to pull in the reigns and do things with a little more logic and a lot less emotion. It's dearly needed.

"Trump is determined to pull in the reigns and do things with a little more logic and a lot less emotion. It's dearly needed."

Trump is do things with a "lot less emotion?"

So that's why the calm reasoned tweets and the unheated presentation of facts.

Now if he were to use anger and constantly use lies and other falsehoods in communicating that would be disproof of your contention. Thank goodness that's not the case.

 

[xtrnuno41]

SO what is NATO doing? Nothing but spending lots of time and money.

Powerplay again. Ridiculous meetings over and over, threats.

It would save a lot of money stopping with NATO.

[bristolboy]

22 minutes ago, xtrnuno41 said:

SO what is NATO doing? Nothing but spending lots of time and money.

Powerplay again. Ridiculous meetings over and over, threats.

It would save a lot of money stopping with NATO.

Would you rather see its members go to war? By your standard, what alliances are doing anything? I guess the US alliance with the Kurds, the Russian and Iranian alliance with the Syrians. I'm sure there are a few more out there. Is that your idea of a good thing?

[simple1]

2 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

Liberalism is one side of the process. Liberalism is ideological and experimental. It is needed to peer past the boundaries and to try new things. Conservatism is restraint and the reliance on lessons learned, wisdom if you will. Both are necessary for progress. One takes you to new places and keeps you alive. The world has been shifting to the liberal end for 60 years already. A little time for reassessment is necessary to determine if you are still on a good path. Trump is determined to pull in the reigns and do things with a little more logic and a lot less emotion. It's dearly needed.

"Logic is a tool to develop reasonable conclusions based on a given set of data. Logic is free of emotion and deals very specifically with information in its purest form".

 

Given the above please inform when Trump has actually applied empirical data, rather than misinforming / lying when articulating his 'logic'.

[farcanell]

4 hours ago, Rigby40 said:

First you need to define outrage.

Sure I agree that we should discuss issues together but just because people are upset or 'outraged' about something doesn't mean they're right.

Nope, never said to ignore public opinion.

I'm not outraged because firstly I'm not overly emotional, secondly I don't have anger so I can't be manipulated and thirdly I love much(not all) of what Donald Trump stands for.

Why would I need to define outrage for you, or anyone? If you don’t understand the word, (any word)  perhaps you should avoid using it.

 

that said, your second line is indicative of a more intelligent outlook.... discuss issues together... great idea... perhaps that’s something your dear leader should do with America’s allies etc, rather than making ad hoc unilateral decisions

 

and then to prove that you can perhaps look at things intelligently, you note that your emotions don’t make your beliefs true, which is undeniably correct ( unless your name is Donald)

 

But then, just when I was thinking you smart, you go and finish of your post with a claim that you can’t be manipulated because your not outraged or angry.... buddy.... think about it..... a smiling fool is easier to manipulate than an angry intellectual ( extrapolate that out however you want)

 

 

[farcanell]

4 hours ago, Rigby40 said:

Calling MS-13 gang members animals is calling a spade a spade.

Calling Hillary a criminal is calling a spade a spade.

Pointing out radical islamic terrorism when everyone else would be shaking in their little boots, is calling a spade a spade.

 

God I love this president!

Who denied that MS and their ilk were animals... just because Donald said it, it doesn’t mean that no one else has, or that they believe otherwise

 

what crime has Hillary been convicted of / for?

 

pretty sure terrorists have been persecuted by various governments etc for... let’s see... ever.... that statement is pretty silly dude.... and to be honest, I’m not sure if Donald is doing anything new about fighting terror, and I would even suggest that he is actually assisting terrorists by fighting with US allies and creating disharmony were there was previously harmony and co operation

 

trump lies so much that if he calls something a spade, I would want a damn good look at it before agreeing

 

that said.... I’m firmly convinced trump is manipulating you

[farcanell]

4 hours ago, zydeco said:

Funny how people who are not even Americans (TVF, for example) feel the need to devote most of their entire day to responding to Trump. What a life they lead. 

So.... you have no concept of how trump ideals can impact on the rest of the world, then.... that’s a bit of a worry, unless you live in a fish bowl. Actually... not even.

[farcanell]

5 hours ago, Rigby40 said:

You implied it, dishonest dude.

Baseless implications and furphies are exactly what your dear leader relies upon when speaking to his followers, who lap it up.... why complain about someone else who may or may not have implied something that may or may not be true.

 

hypocritical dude

[farcanell]

5 hours ago, Rigby40 said:

He's politically incorrect. He's not afraid to speak his mind unlike all those other phony politicians. He calls a spade a spade. He's not a soy boy. He's pro 1A and 2A. He's against illegal immigration and so forth.

 

Ah... I knew you said something else which needed addressing. 

 

Donalds not so much politically incorrect, but rather chooses words that his followers understand.... stupid words, like you know, it’s going to be so great, and big. Big and great. You understand, right? He said it, so it must be true, it’s going to be great. And big (that’s him speaking his mind, which is right up your understanding alley, I assume {from your comment})

 

although supporting neo nazis might have been politically incorrect... yep... you got me on that one. Anyone supporting neo nazis after a violent attack in one of your cities is politically incorrect. Glad you like that about him

 

mind you, I’m not sure that instance was spade/ spade... never mind, because what makes me laugh is your assertion that he supports A1... freedom of speech etc etc. has any other potus ever attacked the media as much as trump (hardly supportive of A1)?

 

 

[Redline]

13 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

Trump is still kickin a$$ and taking names. Cue the petulant liberals who can only see through the lens of manipulated outrage.

Petulant!  Wow, are you really a Trump supporter?  If someone didn't write that for you, you should become a Trumpster Tutor ?

[bristolboy]

2 hours ago, farcanell said:

Who denied that MS and their ilk were animals... just because Donald said it, it doesn’t mean that no one else has, or that they believe otherwise

 

what crime has Hillary been convicted of / for?

 

pretty sure terrorists have been persecuted by various governments etc for... let’s see... ever.... that statement is pretty silly dude.... and to be honest, I’m not sure if Donald is doing anything new about fighting terror, and I would even suggest that he is actually assisting terrorists by fighting with US allies and creating disharmony were there was previously harmony and co operation

 

trump lies so much that if he calls something a spade, I would want a damn good look at it before agreeing

 

that said.... I’m firmly convinced trump is manipulating you

Actually, ISIS is resurfacing in of Iraq from which it was kicked out, One big contributing factor was Trump last minute reneging on a deal to provide aid to locals whose cities were devastated by bombing. Another was his administrations foolish plant to set up an official security force headed by Kurds to patrol an area bordering on Turkey. An enraged Turkey attacked another Kurdish enclave. Kurds got distracted and didn't keep their eyes on ISIS.

Thank you Donald Trump. From the folks at ISIS.

[tumama]

The Soviet Union is long gone. There's no need for NATO anymore. There is however, a need for U.S to justify defense spending on NATO members by demonizing Russia. 

 

If European leaders were so afraid of Russia, they would have no problem spending 4% of their GDP on defense. And to buy gas from US instead of Russia.

 

If US cut their defense spending in half, they could afford free medical and health care for their citizens. This can easily be achieved by through negotiations, having Russia do the same thing. Nuclear disarmament is another positive that not only will save a lot of money, but possibly the world.

[tumama]

1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

Actually, ISIS is resurfacing in of Iraq from which it was kicked out, One big contributing factor was Trump last minute reneging on a deal to provide aid to locals whose cities were devastated by bombing. Another was his administrations foolish plant to set up an official security force headed by Kurds to patrol an area bordering on Turkey. An enraged Turkey attacked another Kurdish enclave. Kurds got distracted and didn't keep their eyes on ISIS.

Thank you Donald Trump. From the folks at ISIS.

 

This is the territory ISIS controlled 2 years before Trump became president. That was on Obama's watch. Not to mention it was Bush who started this mess in the first place. 

 

 

 

 

[JHolmesJr]

Finally a politician who speaks his mind clearly....a breath of fresh air really.

 

Any other guy would just allow the alliance to walk all over him like they have been doing for years.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, tumama said:

The Soviet Union is long gone. There's no need for NATO anymore. There is however, a need for U.S to justify defense spending on NATO members by demonizing Russia. 

The old Soviet Union, or KGB run by Putin who did already occupy Crimea, part of Ukraine.

 

Should we forget that somehow?

 

Ukraine had a deal, made by Russia, that it will never be occupied, as it was supposed to give out all of it's nuclear weapons. Russia broke that deal and thinks it can get away with it.

 

There are about 50 nuclear suitcase weapons unaccounted. There might be far more, far more stronger bombs, which have been lost over the years. 

 

If I would be one of those Ukranians, holding few of those suitcase nuclear bombs.. I would show force first and then start the negotiations. Who needs Kremlin for peach negotiations?

 

But I think it will be the Russians doing just that. They have done it before and they will do it again. Starting the WW3 will kill us all. Nobody can survive the nuclear war, regardless where we live.

 

 

[tumama]

4 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

Any other guy would just allow the alliance to walk all over him like they have been doing for years.

 

I don't agree with that assessment. While it's true that around 70% of NATO spending is by US, NATO is basically just a way for US to get help fighting their imperialistic wars. 

 

But I for one is happy if Trump decides to leave NATO. So we can finally put that useless organization to rest. But what I really like about Trump, is that he's open to talks with Putin. That they can come to some kind of agreement to stop the insane military spending. Also, glad to see he's making progress with North Korea. The only thing that concerns me is a war with Iran. 

[Dumbastheycome]

BSBullyboy!!

What  does  he   itch  for? War? There will  never  no  winner  of  that   no  more!

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed.  

[AYJAYDEE]

3 hours ago, oilinki said:

The old Soviet Union, or KGB run by Putin who did already occupy Crimea, part of Ukraine.

 

Should we forget that somehow?

 

Ukraine had a deal, made by Russia, that it will never be occupied, as it was supposed to give out all of it's nuclear weapons. Russia broke that deal and thinks it can get away with it.

 

There are about 50 nuclear suitcase weapons unaccounted. There might be far more, far more stronger bombs, which have been lost over the years. 

 

If I would be one of those Ukranians, holding few of those suitcase nuclear bombs.. I would show force first and then start the negotiations. Who needs Kremlin for peach negotiations?

 

But I think it will be the Russians doing just that. They have done it before and they will do it again. Starting the WW3 will kill us all. Nobody can survive the nuclear war, regardless where we live.

 

 

If there's a nuclear war, I dont WANT to survive it

[Rigby40]

16 hours ago, farcanell said:

Why would I need to define outrage for you, or anyone? If you don’t understand the word, (any word)  perhaps you should avoid using it.

 

that said, your second line is indicative of a more intelligent outlook.... discuss issues together... great idea... perhaps that’s something your dear leader should do with America’s allies etc, rather than making ad hoc unilateral decisions

 

and then to prove that you can perhaps look at things intelligently, you note that your emotions don’t make your beliefs true, which is undeniably correct ( unless your name is Donald)

 

But then, just when I was thinking you smart, you go and finish of your post with a claim that you can’t be manipulated because your not outraged or angry.... buddy.... think about it..... a smiling fool is easier to manipulate than an angry intellectual ( extrapolate that out however you want)

 

 

I think it's important to define the word outrage because you're making it sound like something other than what it was originally used for at the beginning of this thread.

 

Not really. Angry people are the easiest people to manipulate in the word. Only a person who loves to hold onto his anger would say something as silly as that. And I can give two hoots about your worship of the intellectual. I only care about what is right or wrong, good or evil.

[Rigby40]

16 hours ago, farcanell said:

Who denied that MS and their ilk were animals... just because Donald said it, it doesn’t mean that no one else has, or that they believe otherwise

 

what crime has Hillary been convicted of / for?

 

pretty sure terrorists have been persecuted by various governments etc for... let’s see... ever.... that statement is pretty silly dude.... and to be honest, I’m not sure if Donald is doing anything new about fighting terror, and I would even suggest that he is actually assisting terrorists by fighting with US allies and creating disharmony were there was previously harmony and co operation

 

trump lies so much that if he calls something a spade, I would want a damn good look at it before agreeing

 

that said.... I’m firmly convinced trump is manipulating you

She should be thrown in jail for war crimes.

 

The point is he's not afraid to call a spade a spade. He doesn't pussyfoot around it.

As imperfect a human as he is, he's the closest thing to a real man we've ever had in the White House.

 

How is he manipulating me? I want specifics.

[tumama]

5 minutes ago, Rigby40 said:

She should be thrown in jail for war crimes.

 

The point is he's not afraid to call a spade a spade. He doesn't pussyfoot around it.

As imperfect a human as he is, he's the closest thing to a real man we've ever had in the White House.

 

How is he manipulating me? I want specifics.

 

So should Trump, Obama and Bush. All guilty of war crimes. 

[PhonThong]

23 hours ago, bristolboy said:

So you supported his tax cuts for the rich? His appointment of one supreme Court justice who consistently rules against workers and in favor of business? And his nomination of another who will do the same? His ongoing attempt to deregulate the same financial interests who precipitated the great recession? His continuing attacks on Obamacare? His reneging on his infrastructure plan? His reneging on promises to reign in the drug industry and let Medicare negotiate prices?

Please, what you are doing now is called concern trolling. The basis tactic is I was like you once but then I saw the light. Nonsense.  

EDIT: I forgot to mention his horrific environmental policies.

Congrats Libs,

This is what Obamacare is doing for us.

The government will spend nearly $10 billion more this year, rising from about $32.8 billion in 2016 to about $42.6 billion in 2017, a 28 percent hike. The average monthly subsidy will rise from $291 per month to $367.

Those numbers come from a new report by the nonpartisan Center for Health and Economy, which used government data in combination with the organization's own subsidy estimates in order to produce the findings.

 If Americans really wanted Obamacare. Then why did the government have to pass a law forcing Americans to buy it?

[tumama]

1 minute ago, PhonThong said:

Congrats Libs,

This is what Obamacare is doing for us.

The government will spend nearly $10 billion more this year, rising from about $32.8 billion in 2016 to about $42.6 billion in 2017, a 28 percent hike. The average monthly subsidy will rise from $291 per month to $367.

Those numbers come from a new report by the nonpartisan Center for Health and Economy, which used government data in combination with the organization's own subsidy estimates in order to produce the findings.

 If Americans really wanted Obamacare. Then why did the government have to pass a law forcing Americans to buy it?

 

So stop spending so much on the military then. You don't need hundreds of bases all over the globe. 

[farcanell]

3 minutes ago, Rigby40 said:

She should be thrown in jail for war crimes.

 

The point is he's not afraid to call a spade a spade. He doesn't pussyfoot around it.

As imperfect a human as he is, he's the closest thing to a real man we've ever had in the White House.

 

How is he manipulating me? I want specifics.

Lol..... you will find the specifics in your posts on this very thread.

heres a clue... because someone claims something is a spade, it doesn’t make it so....

 

if that doesn’t help, fact check the statements that trump and his supporters spew out on a daily basis. (Eg... nato spending.... and this very threads headline about trump claiming some kind of victory)

 

so... if you buy into his bluster ( and political incorrectness, if you like) then he’s manipulating you ( ie... you buy in )

[Rigby40]

16 hours ago, farcanell said:

Ah... I knew you said something else which needed addressing. 

 

Donalds not so much politically incorrect, but rather chooses words that his followers understand.... stupid words, like you know, it’s going to be so great, and big. Big and great. You understand, right? He said it, so it must be true, it’s going to be great. And big (that’s him speaking his mind, which is right up your understanding alley, I assume {from your comment})

 

although supporting neo nazis might have been politically incorrect... yep... you got me on that one. Anyone supporting neo nazis after a violent attack in one of your cities is politically incorrect. Glad you like that about him

 

mind you, I’m not sure that instance was spade/ spade... never mind, because what makes me laugh is your assertion that he supports A1... freedom of speech etc etc. has any other potus ever attacked the media as much as trump (hardly supportive of A1)?

 

 

Clearly you have very little understanding of what freedom of speech is. You must be European, you don't have real freedom of speech so I can understand where you're coming from.

The first amendment doesn't guarantee protection of your 'fee fees' or protect you from people calling you out for the horse-doo doo you spew on-air or anywhere else. Why is this so difficult to understand? NOTHING you say is exempt from criticism or ridicule.

 

Trump supports neo-nazis now? Really? Wow. Keep on that trajectory, that's all I gotta say ?

Edited July 14, 2018 by Rigby40

[PhonThong]

9 minutes ago, tumama said:

 

So stop spending so much on the military then. You don't need hundreds of bases all over the globe. 

I agree.

Just remember. Foreign bases belong to the host country, not to the U.S.  They can ask the U.S. to leave anytime.

Edited July 14, 2018 by PhonThong

[Rigby40]

6 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Lol..... you will find the specifics in your posts on this very thread.

heres a clue... because someone claims something is a spade, it doesn’t make it so....

 

if that doesn’t help, fact check the statements that trump and his supporters spew out on a daily basis. (Eg... nato spending.... and this very threads headline about trump claiming some kind of victory)

 

so... if you buy into his bluster ( and political incorrectness, if you like) then he’s manipulating you ( ie... you buy in )

As predicted, you have nothing.

Just like when I try to have a conversation with most liberals and ask for specifics irl, they run with their tail between their legs or just clam up.

 

[tumama]

13 minutes ago, Rigby40 said:

Trump supports neo-nazis now? Really? Wow. Keep on that trajectory, that's all I gotta say ?

 

He did call them good people. That sounds like support to me.