EXCLUSIVE: Cave saga EXPOSES FLAWS

[lvr181]

3 hours ago, Small Joke said:

Clearly there are progressive and competent citizens in Thailand

Yes, unfortunately they seem NOT to belong to the powerful clique in this feudal society and therefore are unable to advance the Kingdom for the benefit of ALL citizens!

 

600 years and they still have not achieved what Singapore has in 50 years. No society is perfect just some strive harder than others.

[ttrd]

3 hours ago, irwinfc said:

i'm absolutely certain the tsunami hit thailand in 2004 (dec 26th if you must know the date).

Thats correct. It actually took 1,5 hours from the earthquake was registered at Jakartas Geo-Physical Center to the first waves hit south of Thailand (Phuket, Khao Lak and Phi Phi) so with a prompt warning system and an established evacuation plan in place a significant number of lives could have been spared - hopefully it has been a lesson learned and that such now has been put in system...

 

https://www.rappler.com/world/specials/79016-timeline-2004-indian-ocean-tsunami

Edited July 14, 2018 by ttrd

[gbswales]

3 hours ago, irwinfc said:

i'm absolutely certain the tsunami hit thailand in 2004 (dec 26th if you must know the date).

Yes I remember that too - I was at the theatre in London seeing the Rat Pack and at the end of the show they announced about the tsunami and held a collection for the relief effort.  I know it was the year before I first visited Thailand and met my partner and that was in October 2005

[Charlie1]

Tsunami was 2004 and not 2006. That a page like Thaivisa doesn't know the date of the Tsunami tells me a lot about it..

 

[ttrd]

4 minutes ago, Charlie1 said:

Tsunami was 2004 and not 2006. That a page like Thaivisa doesn't know the date of the Tsunami tells me a lot about it..

 

You mean that a obvious typing error explains it all....??....come on - dont worry, be happy...

[Oziex1]

4 hours ago, otherstuff1957 said:

Thailand has more generals than the US....  and they put a Lieutenant in charge of this?  I guess that shows the priority given to emergencies and safety in Thailand!

I would suggest the good Lieutenant knows how to get things done unlike his superiors who are lazy, incompetent money grubbing fat cats. 

[Sydebolle]

The tsunami desaster was not foreseeable and, for the record, took place on December 26th, 2004 and not two years later - not that this really would matter.

The cave story is different all together as the cave's condition and seasonal flooding was known to the powers to be. In any other civilized country the cave would be locked and closed for good; there are plenty of other caves to be visited by the Johns and the Marys - but now the discussion is apparently already about a movie and a national treasure nomination. Beats me ?

[sawadee1947]

4 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

one large city in the USA has more equipment, training and experience than all of Thailand combined. 

 

https://www.lafd.org/about/special-operations

 

this is only the city and does not include the county fire department.

 

http://www.lacosar.org/

 

Very sad to say but Thailand is AT LEAST 50 years behind the west.

 

Cancel the subs and buy some real fire/search and rescue equipment and training. 

 

 

Very good joke. Who you think should listen to you? (sarcastic) 

We from western countries know so much and got a lot of experience. However Thais are too proud to admit to be in need of help. And they did not meet any western culture because never been colonized. Unfortunately. 

[ttrd]

22 minutes ago, Oziex1 said:

I would suggest the good Lieutenant knows how to get things done unlike his superiors who are lazy, incompetent money grubbing fat cats. 

 

It could be of another reason, that the guy who actually was half pushed out from the inner circle was placed in charge for something that the (to use your caracteristics) lazy/incompetent/money grubbing fat cats believed would end in a disaster to finally finish with him - but unfortunately for them and luckily for every one else it ended in a success which made the political victim to a real hero - if so, a real backfire...

 

https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politics/1497382/governor-in-charge-of-cave-rescue-shuffled-to-phayao

Edited July 14, 2018 by ttrd

[lincolnshire poacher]

4 hours ago, Chang_paarp said:

Good thing this was not declared a national disaster.
Could you imagine the carnage if Gen Toad took command and demonstrated his usual expertise in things. At least the governor listened to and heeded the advise of foreign experts.

Sent from my SM-A910F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

The governers ability to listen to they that had superior knowledge made all the difference.

[sambum]

"it does not mean Thailand must necessarily have sophisticated rescuers. Instead, Thailand should focus on developing a crisis resource management system, under which a pool of professional information can be available."

 

In other words, no need to train or pay our own "sophisticated rescuers" when we can call upon qualified international volunteers to do the job?

[Bangkok Barry]

5 hours ago, rooster59 said:

He said there should be more public education about the risks in everyday life.

 

“I must say that this is a national problem – of having low awareness about risks to our lives. We should seriously address and tackle this area, first and foremost, as prevention is actually the best approach against disasters,” said Atchariya.

 

Bingo! It does indeed apply to everyday life, where people take the most appalling risks in ignorance. Common sense would tell most not to do whatever (such as pulling out of a side turning onto a main road without looking), but that is entirely absent in Thailand so they need to be taught.

[NoshowJones]

5 hours ago, otherstuff1957 said:

Thailand has more generals than the US....  and they put a Lieutenant in charge of this?  I guess that shows the priority given to emergencies and safety in Thailand!

Yes, even the police have their Maj/Gens, Lt/Cols etc. they just love their posing around in their nice uniforms and fancy hats. oh! and their medals and ribbons. They are no more than a joke.

[NoshowJones]

5 hours ago, transam said:

But folk are in hi-so positions being paid hi-so wages to sort stuff....Why can't they sit down and think, think how to sort stuff...After all, the big noises are paid to sort stuff, but they don't...

Most of them, if not all, are only in their hi-so positions because they paid for them. Where did they get the money? That's another question.

[NoshowJones]

3 hours ago, SimonD said:

Seeing as none of the boys or their 'coach' could swim, mandatory swimming lessons at primary school level would be a good start...

I'm afraid there are schools all over Thailand which are not near any swimming pools, especially in Isaan.

[jenny2017]

8 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Yes, even the police have their Maj/Gens, Lt/Cols etc. they just love their posing around in their nice uniforms and fancy hats. oh! and their medals and ribbons. They are no more than a joke.

Friends in Europe were asking me why we'd have so much military at our schools.

 

They saw a photo from a Monday where the teachers are wearing their uniforms. ?

[jenny2017]

1 minute ago, possum1931 said:

I'm afraid there are schools all over Thailand which are not near any swimming pools, especially in Isaan.

Our prestigious Anuban has a pool and our school next door has the biggest pool in the whole province. Sad is that a kid drowned in a swimming lesson at the Anuban. 

And I'm in the deepest part of Isaan. 

[NoshowJones]

1 minute ago, jenny2017 said:

Friends in Europe were asking me why we'd have so much military at our schools.

 

They saw a photo from a Monday where the teachers are wearing their uniforms. ?

In the school where I taught, the teachers all had one day a week when they could wear what they wanted.

But that did not apply to the students.

[KiwiKiwi]

Prevention - right. Like the Tsunami warning system - the one that has never worked and continues to not work. A triumph to be sure, and the ideal model for all emergency systems in Thailand - like the non-functional wind-shear alert systems at many airports.

 

You don't need hi-tech prevention sustems at a cave. What you need is a big gate with a lock on it and a notice that says 'Dangerous - risk of drowning during the rainy season - stay out'.

 

Edited July 14, 2018 by KiwiKiwi

[wvavin]

5 hours ago, jenny2017 said:

 He said there should be more public education about the risks in everyday life.

 

 

 

  There should be an entirely different kind of primary, secondary and tertiary education where students are directly involved, allowed to ask their teachers questions, and the useless middle aged rote learning replaced with student-centered learning strategies.

 

What they do not teach in rote learning is the full, well-rounded understanding of the subject. Students copy the answers of a whole English book within an academic school year, but please ask them any questions about the topics. They would not know the answers.

 

Moreover, the no-fail policy has to have an end; nobody wants to repeat a grade, which would be beneficial to all involved.

 

However, wait. Thai schools will not produce better teachers if they do not understand basic principles about education.

 

Only those who have studied abroad seem to understand that, and they do not lose face anymore. 

It is not going to happen because every government has been busy recouping their "election invention" before anything else. 

[HHTel]

Buck your ideas up 'The Nation'.  If you can't get an important date right how can you expect to be a credible source?

[jenny2017]

33 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

In the school where I taught, the teachers all had one day a week when they could wear what they wanted.

But that did not apply to the students.

They often look so stupid in their boy scout uniforms that it's difficult not to laugh. 

 

 Students who accidentally wear the wrong uniform for that particular day have to stand separated from the others at the anthem, a sort of "Look at them, these guys were too stupid to wear the right clothes!"

 

  But Thai teachers might not understand that some are just not able to wash five different uniforms, living with four others in a tiny room.

 

  Some of them are almost adults and it's a joke to call and treat them as they were little boys and girls.

 

Please have a closer look at the medals of some teachers. You can buy them at every candy shop. 

 

American 3 star generals would be jealous to find out that Thai teachers are way more decorated. But to me, they look more like Christmas trees, methinks. 

 

  

[jenny2017]

12 minutes ago, wvavin said:

It is not going to happen because every government has been busy recouping their "election invention" before anything else. 

Too busy counting money and building houses. ?

[Nigeone]

While I totally agree with everyone about lack of education and awareness amongst the population I actually think in this Cave rescue it might have helped the survival of everyone . Brit kids for sure if in that situation would know the risks and what could happen and don't think they would have been so seemingly cool and worry free 

Edited July 14, 2018 by Nigeone

[NoshowJones]

32 minutes ago, KiwiKiwi said:

Prevention - right. Like the Tsunami warning system - the one that has never worked and continues to not work. A triumph to be sure, and the ideal model for all emergency systems in Thailand - like the non-functional wind-shear alert systems at many airports.

 

You don't need hi-tech prevention sustems at a cave. What you need is a big gate with a lock on it and a notice that says 'Dangerous - risk of drowning during the rainy season - stay out'.

 

It is not just in the rainy season you will get floods, during the high season last Feb, supposed to be the dry season. I was riding my motorbike from Pattaya to Bangkok along the coast road and as I was nearing Samut Prakan there was lots of rain and the road was flooded so much I had to do a U turn, go back and take another route.

[Torrens54]

7 hours ago, otherstuff1957 said:

Thailand has more generals than the US....  and they put a Lieutenant in charge of this?  I guess that shows the priority given to emergencies and safety in Thailand!

Perchance a humble Lieutenant is more “on the ball, better educated and sufficiently keen for promotion,” to get off his posterior and actualy get

THE JOB DONE ?

[DILLIGAD]

They often look so stupid in their boy scout uniforms that it's difficult not to laugh. 

 

 Students who accidentally wear the wrong uniform for that particular day have to stand separated from the others at the anthem, a sort of "Look at them, these guys were too stupid to wear the right clothes!"

 

  But Thai teachers might not understand that some are just not able to wash five different uniforms, living with four others in a tiny room.

 

  Some of them are almost adults and it's a joke to call and treat them as they were little boys and girls.

 

Please have a closer look at the medals of some teachers. You can buy them at every candy shop. 

 

American 3 star generals would be jealous to find out that Thai teachers are way more decorated. But to me, they look more like Christmas trees, methinks. 

 

  

@Jenny2017

My father would be turning in his grave, as he was a military tailor at No1. Saville Row,London (next to another place who had a bit of a music concert on the roof once!!)

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed. 

[bluesofa]

7 minutes ago, Torrens54 said:

Perchance a humble Lieutenant is more “on the ball, better educated and sufficiently keen for promotion,” to get off his posterior and actualy get

THE JOB DONE ?

I would hazard a guess this guy probably hasn't been given carte blanche to get on and do the job. Thai bureaucracy is renowned for being top-heavy (and I'm sure the military even more so).

 

"After the incident [tsunami], Thailand introduced two laws concerning disaster prevention and mitigation, and emergency medical services (EMS)" 

You can introduce all the laws you want, but you can bet your bottom dollar they're not being enforced.

 

[connda]

7 hours ago, otherstuff1957 said:

Thailand has more generals than the US....  and they put a Lieutenant in charge of this?  I guess that shows the priority given to emergencies and safety in Thailand!

No.  Actually it probably shows who has the experience and know-how as opposed to those who don't,  and who is a political-leech, connected, bought-in, and/or from a rich family - and generally don't have a clue about actual leadership. 

"You don't know what you're talking about!"
Yeah I do.  I'm a vet and an old one at that. I gave a significant chuck of my life to the military.  A government employee in DC would have been vested with a pension. <head shake>
And fairly recently my step-son was in the Thai military, and I was aghast at what I saw within the upper COC.  By the way.  It doesn't apply to all member of the military.  The Navy Seal who gave his life in the Tham Luang rescue for example.  And the real patriots in the military, regardless or rank - regardless of the propaganda they consumed - I have respect for..  I have immense respect for my comrades,  Some understand the reality of Geo-politics - many don't, they just fire the guns and are, to coin the phrase - cannon fodder.  

Caveat: I'm not referring to just the Thai military.  I've met incredibly competent officers in my career.  However, most of those have been purged in the last few years and replaced with 'yes men'.  It will work itself out.  Incompetence tends to self-destruct over time. It just depends on how many innocence lives are lost in the process.  So regarding senior military leading the troops in the realm of security and safety?  I'd rather work with the Lieutenant or those of the rank of Major or below and who actively serve in the field as opposed to hiding in an administrative position behind a desk. 

Thank God I'm too old to worry about this any more.  Just a casual observer nowadays.