UK to warn public every week over 'no-deal Brexit': The Times

[aright]

Just now, SheungWan said:

PM is not elected by the people.

She is indirectly If you don't like him/her don't vote for her party. 

[SheungWan]

18 minutes ago, aright said:

You seem to feel you are qualified to know what I want better than I do.

I can tell you what I don't want...………………..an authoritarian Union governed by an avalanche of rules, orchestrated by faceless old men with no accountability, rigidly following a warped ideology who respond to arguments with threats all because the gravy train needs protection.  

.....says the Hard Brexiteers who not so long ago wanted Royal Prerogative to decide over Parliamentary decision-making. Well fancy that!

[aright]

1 minute ago, SheungWan said:

.....says the Hard Brexiteers who not so long ago wanted Royal Prerogative to decide over Parliamentary decision-making. Well fancy that!

How long ago was that then?

[SheungWan]

1 minute ago, aright said:

She is indirectly If you don't like him/her don't vote for her party. 

No. Theresa May was not the leader of her Party when first appointed PM. Recommend stop digging this hole.

[SheungWan]

Just now, aright said:

How long ago was that then?

Oh dear! old age is a real bummer.

[aright]

Just now, SheungWan said:

No. Theresa May was not the leader of her Party when first appointed PM. Recommend stop digging this hole.

Very true but they are the rules and I haven't heard any calls for reform. You can of course argue she wasn't the best choice and I would concede

[aright]

1 minute ago, SheungWan said:

Oh dear! old age is a real bummer.

Don't be lazy when was royal prerogative last used. In your lifetime?

[aright]

26 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Do you think you'll achieve all that by exiting the EU? Good luck with that.

Yes!

[melvinmelvin]

20 minutes ago, aright said:

I have already explained the Tory system which you seem to willfully misunderstand.  The PM cannot become PM until she is firstly chosen by the political party, secondly elected by party members and thirdly elected by the people.

What's undemocratic about that?

As for the Cabinet they are elected MPs chosen by the PM. Makes sense they are members of the party responsible for government. What is your preferred method of choosing a Cabinet member ….an election to approve firing one and hiring another?

When was a member of the European Commission last fired? 

 

as for composing the cabinet, I find what you do in the UK fully in order,

picked by the PM, whether they are elected MPs or not is of no interest.

the cabinet is the PM's responsibility,

if the national assembly can't hack what the PM is doing - non confidence - by by - new PM and new cabinet

 

but the Prime Minister is picked by obscure forces in the Tory party.

that is questionable

that is to close to being the PM for Liz rather than the people

[nauseus]

48 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

DD

 

to the above you should add

that UK has an unelected PM, the PM is picked by some obscure persons in the Tory party

 

you also have a cabinet that is unelected, (which I find fully in order), the cabinet is picked

 

 

Like from the MP cherry tree? The PM and cabinet have at least all been elected as MPs.  

[sandyf]

22 hours ago, citybiker said:

It’s been occasionally mentioned that the EU doesn’t have to negotiate with the U.K.

Unfortunately, it’s yet another flawed part of the bigger argument because the U.K. choose to leave, ie: article 8 of the Lisbon Treaty.
The Telegraph’s take on it.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/08/05/brussels-will-break-laws-refuses-compromise-brexit/

&

http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty/treaty-on-european-union-and-comments/title-1-common-provisions/6-article-8.html


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

That argument is taking "negotiate" off on a tangent. The EU would be breaking its own laws if it compromised any of the treaties. The EU is only required to negotiate a workable withdrawal agreement and whatever the outcome it will be seen as a negotiated withdrawal agreement.

The EU is not obliged to negotiate on trade as other workable options exist but the WTO option leaves many issues up in the air leaving the UK to make alternative arrangements. The time constraints on making alternative arrangements can hardly be blamed on the EU.

The other hurdle to negotiation is the UK approach, TM has demanded that goods and services be separated, cannot happen as they are bound together under the Single Market Act so as far as the EU is concerned it is non negotiable, something she is well aware of.

The real question here is, if you ask for the impossible and the other party refuses, who is to blame?

[whatsupdoc]

31 minutes ago, aright said:

I have already explained the Tory system which you seem to willfully misunderstand.  The PM cannot become PM until she is firstly chosen by the political party, secondly elected by party members and thirdly elected by the people.

What's undemocratic about that?

As for the Cabinet they are elected MPs chosen by the PM. Makes sense they are members of the party responsible for government. What is your preferred method of choosing a Cabinet member ….an election to approve firing one and hiring another?

When was a member of the European Commission last fired? 

As far as I can tell most if not all of the members of the European Commission are competent and knowledgeable in their fields. Probably that is how they got their positions in the first place. So no wonder they do not often get fired. But of course they are accountable to the elected European parliament.

 

On the other hand in the UK you have (had) some ministers that make real blunders, do not seem to take their job that seriously, do not always seem that knowledgable and are hardly held accountable (the PM doesn't dare to fire them).

And after the next election you might get either Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn as PM..... 

 

I know what system I would prefer (and it is not the latter).

 

 

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

As far as I can tell most if not all of the members of the European Commission are competent and knowledgeable in their fields. Probably that is how they got their positions in the first place. So no wonder they do not often get fired. But of course they are accountable to the elected European parliament.

 

On the other hand in the UK you have (had) some ministers that make real blunders, do not seem to take their job that seriously, do not always seem that knowledgable and are hardly held accountable (the PM doesn't dare to fire them).

And after the next election you might get either Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn as PM..... 

 

I know what system I would prefer (and it is not the latter).

 

 

Competent? Masters of mismanagement and captains of corruption more like.

 

When have anyone of them been fired by the European Parliament?

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

Competent? Masters of mismanagement and captains of corruption more like.

 

When have anyone of them been fired by the European Parliament?

 

 

 

Do you have any example at all of corruption within the E commision or the parliament?

 

[whatsupdoc]

Just now, nauseus said:

Competent? Masters of mismanagement and captains of corruption more like.

 

When have anyone of them been fired by the European Parliament?

 

 

If you imply they are corrupt you should be able to give evidence. Won't hold my breath.

 

Maybe none ever got fired. Could well mean they are not corrupt and doing a good  job.

[Chomper Higgot]

Back on topic.

 

British expats in Thailand are reminded of how Brexit is failing every time they remit money from the UK to Thailand.

 

A reminder that was brought home to a neighbour of mine who is this week leaving Thailand after almost 15 years here, the exchange rate has ruined his retirement plans. Not the first, not the last.

 

 

[aright]

Just now, melvinmelvin said:

 

Do you have any example at all of corruption within the E commision or the parliament?

 

Can you tell me how Martin Selmayr;  Mr Junckers replacement when he retires, was democratically elected to his post in the Commission 

[SheungWan]

51 minutes ago, aright said:

Don't be lazy when was royal prerogative last used. In your lifetime?

The question is not when RP was last used. The Hard Brexiteers tried to have it used and failed. I guess some of the Brexiteers would like to pretend it never happened. Understandable.

[aright]

3 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

The question is not when RP was last used. The Hard Brexiteers tried to have it used and failed. I guess some of the Brexiteers would like to pretend it never happened. Understandable.

link?

[SheungWan]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Back on topic.

British expats in Thailand are reminded of how Brexit is failing every time they remit money from the UK to Thailand.

A reminder that was brought home to a neighbour of mine who is this week leaving Thailand after almost 15 years here, the exchange rate has ruined his retirement plans. Not the first, not the last.

There will always be some guys returning for one reason or another and others underestimating the cost of living as an expat. Any further significant drop in Sterling is more likely to have an impact on younger ones who are considering making the move. It is not just Sterling but also local inflation on consumerables.

[nauseus]

5 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

Do you have any example at all of corruption within the E commision or the parliament?

 

 

I didn't use the Mail or Express but there are plenty more.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/297457.stm

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/1999/mar/16/eu.politics1

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26014387

 

https://transparency.eu/ac-report-shelved/

 

https://euobserver.com/opinion/136822

 

https://www.economist.com/europe/2014/04/25/the-dragon-in-the-room

[SheungWan]

10 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

The question is not when RP was last used. The Hard Brexiteers tried to have it used and failed. I guess some of the Brexiteers would like to pretend it never happened. Understandable.

 

6 minutes ago, aright said:

link?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/728329/article-50-high-court-case-brexit-royal-prerogative-what-ishttps://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/728329/article-50-high-court-case-brexit-royal-prerogative-what-is

[aright]

16 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

Do you have any example at all of corruption within the E commision or the parliament?

 

How would we know the extent,  for years auditors would not sign off EU accounts to the point where the EU commission now signs off its own accounts. 

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, aright said:

How would we know the extent,  for years auditors would not sign off EU accounts to the point where the EU commission now signs off its own accounts. 

Well, at least somebody is signing them! There was quite a backlog. 

[aright]

11 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/728329/article-50-high-court-case-brexit-royal-prerogative-what-ishttps://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/728329/article-50-high-court-case-brexit-royal-prerogative-what-is

No I wouldn't deny it happened or it hasn't been used on a few passport issues but you said it best "it failed"

[whatsupdoc]

11 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

I didn't use the Mail or Express but there are plenty more.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/297457.stm

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/1999/mar/16/eu.politics1

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26014387

 

https://transparency.eu/ac-report-shelved/

 

https://euobserver.com/opinion/136822

 

https://www.economist.com/europe/2014/04/25/the-dragon-in-the-room

You were asked for corruption examples within the EU commission.

You come up with a whistleblower in 1999 (and yes, the commission did resign) and a BBC article about the commission actually fighting corruption in the member states....

 

OK you found something from almost 20 years ago, but I am not convinced that the commission is corrupt as you claimed. It is a serious allegation, you really should do better.

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

You were asked for corruption examples within the EU commission.

You come up with a whistleblower in 1999 (and yes, the commission did resign) and a BBC article about the commission actually fighting corruption in the member states....

 

OK you found something from almost 20 years ago, but I am not convinced that the commission is corrupt as you claimed. It is a serious allegation, you really should do better.

EU auditors refuse to sign off more than £100billion of its own spending

Critics attack the EU for demanding that David Cameron pays a £1.7 billion bill despite an official audit failing to give a clean bill of health to more than £100 billion of Brussels spending

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/11209248/EU-auditors-refuse-to-sign-off-more-than-100billion-of-its-own-spending.html

[whatsupdoc]

8 minutes ago, vogie said:

EU auditors refuse to sign off more than £100billion of its own spending

Critics attack the EU for demanding that David Cameron pays a £1.7 billion bill despite an official audit failing to give a clean bill of health to more than £100 billion of Brussels spending

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/11209248/EU-auditors-refuse-to-sign-off-more-than-100billion-of-its-own-spending.html

Another fail. This article is mainly about wasteful spending and insufficient control. Nowhere is any proof that the EU commission are "captains of corruption", as was claimed. 

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

Another fail. This article is mainly about wasteful spending and insufficient control. Nowhere is any proof that the EU commission are "captains of corruption", as was claimed. 

Whatever you are given, you just poo poo it, there is no point.

 

Is Junckers sciatica showing any signs of improvement yet?

[nauseus]

18 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

You were asked for corruption examples within the EU commission.

You come up with a whistleblower in 1999 (and yes, the commission did resign) and a BBC article about the commission actually fighting corruption in the member states....

 

OK you found something from almost 20 years ago, but I am not convinced that the commission is corrupt as you claimed. It is a serious allegation, you really should do better.

Well, like I said there are many more allegations and I didn't start them but here is one more recent example:

 

https://www.ft.com/content/b8bccfee-42c2-11e8-93cf-67ac3a6482fd

Nepotism maybe but a form of corruption all the same.

 

The EU has been dodged by corruption allegations since the off. The 1999 mass resignations have been the worst case but, of course, the lack of any actual prosecution is due to extended corruption (to cover up the corruption), withholding information, secrecy, fear of being caught out (again) and the virtual immunity in the case of Commissioners and high-ranking EU officers.