2 hours ago, ChidlomDweller said:

It depends entirely on how you live, but just going to the supermarket is a lot cheaper in the West.  Just go to Aldi, Lidl, or buy private label products and you won't believe how cheap it is.  Many of my basic staples like yoghurt, cheese, vegetables, frozen foods, condiments, wine, etc. aren't even half the price in Europe or the US.  Food courts and street food are cheap here, but eating that 2-3 times a day would get old fast.  Nowadays I prefer to eat at home.   Rent for a decent condo in Bangkok on Sukhumvit or elsewhere downtown is quickly 35,000 a month and up.  That won't even get you something very fancy (those are more like 70,000), just a 1 or 2 bedroom apartment in decent condition like you'd find back home.  For that money you can find a nice apartment in many nice cities in Europe too.  International schools, cars, brand-name clothing, appliances,... no comparison, this country is very, very expensive for those things.  

 

Don't want to sound like I'm moaning about the cost of living here, which overall works out about medium, but I think it gets too much credit for being cheap when it's not.  

Not comparing apples to apples is useless.

 

The quality you get is no where near the comparison in the west

 

No matter where you are in the world, you get what you pay for.

 

 

5 hours ago, bwpage3 said:

One of them is in international school the other in the local catholic school. I'm not convinced either one is worse than what I hear and observe about schools in the West these days

 

You are not convinced? What facts do you have? Here is a fact. The company I work for employees 200,000 worldwide. Take a wild guess how many are from Thailand?

 

After having my kid at Prem International in Chiang Mai for years, came back to the USA and he was a year behind. Don't have to think, that is reality.

 

Apples to apples. You can live in Thailand cheap because everything you have is cheap. Price out a comparable western house you see for 6,000,000 baht plus here on TV. No where near the quality of the USA and not cheap either.

 

Honda's and Toyota's more expensive in Thailand unless you buy the cheap ass lowest end

 

Western food in Tesco? That is no bargain either

 

Compare apples to apples. Cheap is cheap no matter what.

 

As for savings, my company gives me an additional 65% of my 401k contribution each year.

 

If you have a couple hundred grand (US)  a year income, good on you. If not, living cheap like a Thai will get your there same as living in a tent in Yellowstone.

 

Apples to Apples. 

 

PS Thailand has sure changed a lot since I was there in 1985. Cannot even recognize the place through all the corruption, coups, materialism, wanna-be's

 

I have never been to the US but I have heard it has a cheap cost of living. Perhaps it can be considered an outlier among Western countries when having these kind of discussions.  Here's a comparison to Australia:

 

Rent - I pay less in a month than what I would pay in a week in Aus. Granted it's a smaller, cheaply made house but I'd happily live in the same back home if they were available. On top of that I can walk to the beach here. Renting or buying a house near the beach in Aus is only for the well off these days.

 

Utilities - way cheaper in Thailand

 

Fresh fruit, veg and meat - way cheaper in Thailand except for beef and lamb. I eat home cooked Thai food daily and doing the same in Aus costs a small fortune, which is what I would want to do.

 

Internet - way cheaper and faster in Thailand

 

Imported electronics and other imports - cheaper in Aus

 

Cars - cheaper in Australia although a "cheap ass toyota" is fine with me.

 

Petrol - about the same price I think?

 

Public transport / taxis - way cheaper in Thailand

 

So all in all Thailand is WAY cheaper for me than Australia. Not even close.

 

As for schooling, sounds like you have nice schools where you are in the US.  I'm definitely not thrilled with the schools here either but your original comment was "zero education" here.  The "reality" is that Australian test scores are dropping every year, incompatible migrants are going up, drug problems abound and the education system is riddled with leftist mumbo jumbo and silly educational fads. That said it may still be better than what we're getting here but it's by no means a slam dunk.

 

Yes Thailand has changed over the decades. I've been here for 20 years and personally I haven't noticed the corruption getting better or worse. For exapmple my local immigration office is infinitely better than the corrupt riddled shithole it used to be. Some changes in Thailand have been bad for sure, others have been better though too. I'm not sure my home country is a better place than it was 20 years ago either.

 

 

It’s like the fable of La Fontaine “the grasshopper and the ant” when I was little my mother bought these choco pots that had all these nice stories printed. Now they are full with legal text..
I considered myself through all my life as the grasshopper, this is probably the reason why I ended up in Thailand. But if this is the lifestyle one chooses, at older age you can’t start to regret it. For me this means I will/have to work the rest of my life. At the end not so bad because I don’t get lonely, always surrounded by active people, solving problems every day and at the same time enjoy life.
At 61 I still have professional goals, Instill want to achieve things and I have no idea if Thailand is the end station. Going back to my home country however is the last option on the list.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

8 hours ago, bwpage3 said:

all of whom will stop and speak or give you a smile, which is rare in Western countries

 

Most western countries don't condone 60 and 70 year old men with teenagers and young 20's.

Nothing whatsoever to do with what I wrote.

A lot of interesting perspectives here.

 

I’ve worked in about 25 countries, and haven’t been based in my “home” country for about 30 years.

 

Thailand is working out fine for me.

 

The only thing I really miss is educated conversation with “my own kind”. That’s why I visit the forum ?

16 hours ago, xylophone said:

 what I was meaning to convey, and didn't, was that I have everything I want here and enough money to last me until I'm well over a hundred, and I can indulge myself, probably far too much!

 

When I left NZ I sold everything, knowing full well that this place would be my home for the rest of my life,

 

I wonder if others long for a return to their home countries or just think that it would be nice to be back there for a while??

For us we love both places.

Own our home in both places so it is basically a wash

Prices are about the same as we don't pay rent/mortgages

 

Couple of points I quoted above

You sound happy & set & that is all that matters but..

While I am living in Thailand I KNOW no matter how much I think I have & how long it would last

I do not KNOW that. A bad illness can strip $$$ quickly...back home are safety nets that pay that for us if need be.

 

About knowing that place will be your home for the rest of your life

I like that too unfortunately unless you get citizenship it may or may not be true

That is the truth things can change anytime especially in a Military ruled country

 

About the last quote...I will be honest after 5-10 years of just being in Thailand it takes a good 6 months to reintegrate into western life

At first you want to just run back to Thailand ?

But after that you see many things & appreciate many things that are lacking in Thailand

 

So for us ....now...both is best

But...if I had to choose just one?? Here for sure in the west because my wife & I both have citizenship

we both have rights, we both have total freedom of speech & other important freedoms many forget till needed

in a country that does not have them

 

But again..for now? We love both & have both

 

 

 

 

 

10 hours ago, bwpage3 said:

<snip>

Most western countries don't condone 60 and 70 year old men with teenagers and young 20's.

That's why God created Thailand.

To the sell up everything and move to Thailand wing of TVF, I'd always advise caution.

I never sold my house in the US, just rented it out for income, since I always wanted a bolt hole should I need it.

I lived through 3 coups, multiple regimes, and since there really isn't a rule of law you never know when you might be out on your ear on the whim of some immigration change.

Now I'm very happy with a few months in Thailand over the winter, then back home for the rest of the year.

As for the cost, said this before, but honestly, take out housing and if you want to compare a western style life in Thailand and the US, it really ain't much in it.

A while back I did a side by side comparison, which I'm too lazy to search for, but of course the 'Thai Apologists' slammed me for it

1 hour ago, GinBoy2 said:

...if you want to compare a western style life in Thailand and the US, it really ain't much in it.

 

I think you have hit on the crux of the issue.

 

It seems a lot of folks move to the other side of the world (Thailand, for example) and want

to duplicate the lifestyle they had back home. To me this is the greatest folly. After 31 years

in Asia (Japan, Thailand, Philippines), I'm glad that I never had any desire to do this.

 

How could anyone expect to enjoy all the richness of a different culture if they don't make

any reasonable attempt to immerse themselves in it? I think this is why so many punters on

TVF spend their lives whining and moaning.

 

They move to a different world and then try to bend that world to meet their idea of what it 

should be. It is what it is -- learn to live with it.

 

I thoroughly enjoyed learning Japanese culture, learning to speak Japanese fluently and how

to eat sushi and other Japanese foods. All this made my 16 yrs in Japan a pure pleasure. My

experiences in Philippines (8 yrs) and Thailand (7 yrs) were an equally enjoyable adventure.

 

Being an expat is what you make of it.

 

 

3 hours ago, BradinAsia said:

<snip>

I thoroughly enjoyed learning Japanese culture, learning to speak Japanese fluently <snip2>

 

No problem living in Thailand and not learning Thai language -- as one of our esteemed members here noted, you can always point.

3 hours ago, BradinAsia said:

 

I think you have hit on the crux of the issue.

 

It seems a lot of folks move to the other side of the world (Thailand, for example) and want

to duplicate the lifestyle they had back home. To me this is the greatest folly. After 31 years

in Asia (Japan, Thailand, Philippines), I'm glad that I never had any desire to do this.

 

How could anyone expect to enjoy all the richness of a different culture if they don't make

any reasonable attempt to immerse themselves in it? I think this is why so many punters on

TVF spend their lives whining and moaning.

 

They move to a different world and then try to bend that world to meet their idea of what it 

should be. It is what it is -- learn to live with it.

 

I thoroughly enjoyed learning Japanese culture, learning to speak Japanese fluently and how

to eat sushi and other Japanese foods. All this made my 16 yrs in Japan a pure pleasure. My

experiences in Philippines (8 yrs) and Thailand (7 yrs) were an equally enjoyable adventure.

 

Being an expat is what you make of it.

 

 

I think you are being a bit selective on what you are quoting from me. 

 

I was talking about the cost of living here. I speak Thai, and Lao actually, and totally understand the culture around me.

 

What I was talking about, was ‘if’ you want to eat western food (not always), have good AC in your house, decent housing, then the cost of living isn’t that much different.

 

You can enjoy the culture, but may not want to live life in an Isaan tin shack. That may float your boat, but I would suggest that a good percentage of retirees didn’t work and save to live like a pauper.

5 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

 

What I was talking about, was ‘if’ you want to eat western food (not always), have good AC in your house, decent housing, then the cost of living isn’t that much different.

 

 

That may be true for the US (I wouldn't know) but not for the rest of the developed world.

5 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

I think you are being a bit selective on what you are quoting from me. 

 

I was talking about the cost of living here. I speak Thai, and Lao actually, and totally understand the culture around me.

 

What I was talking about, was ‘if’ you want to eat western food (not always), have good AC in your house, decent housing, then the cost of living isn’t that much different.

 

You can enjoy the culture, but may not want to live life in an Isaan tin shack. That may float your boat, but I would suggest that a good percentage of retirees didn’t work and save to live like a pauper.

I would suggest that a good percentage of retirees didn’t work and save to live like a pauper.

 

I think you right on target there. I find it odd people will sell up their western lifestyle, move to Thailand and live in a one room flat or tin shack in Isaan because that is all they can afford, then jump and down trying to convince everyone how cheap it is.

 

It can be cheap if that is ALL you can afford however I seriously doubt anyone grew up with a dream of retiring in Thailand to eat street food and live in a shack the rest of their lives, not understanding the language or anything else.

 

I also believe as one gets older, you think "hey, I have worked my whole life and I deserve some comfort in my old age" and that comfort may come in the form of only what your savings/retirement affords you.

 

If that means living in a shack till you die and you are happy, good for you.

 

 

11 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

I think you are being a bit selective on what you are quoting from me. 

 

I was talking about the cost of living here. I speak Thai, and Lao actually, and totally understand the culture around me.

 

What I was talking about, was ‘if’ you want to eat western food (not always), have good AC in your house, decent housing, then the cost of living isn’t that much different.

 

You can enjoy the culture, but may not want to live life in an Isaan tin shack. That may float your boat, but I would suggest that a good percentage of retirees didn’t work and save to live like a pauper.

True if you compare apples to apples and not a tin shack in Isaan to a house in the west.

 

Look at some of the western style houses advertised on TV here. There are many over US $300,000. 

 

That doesn't appear to be cheap to me. 

 

Now comparing those against the same price and western quality, the western quality wins.

 

But if you are comparing a house in Isaan and saying how cheap it is? Holy shit!

 

My wife's village has no restaurants, no stores (Nearest about 32km away), no movie theaters, no nothing. Roads are full of potholes, utilities suck, you name it. No one to speak English with.

 

Or course it would be cheaper to live there. When you have no jobs or industry or infrastructure, it is cheap.

 

But did you live like that before you moved to Thailand?

 

And can you really call that living or just surviving?

 

 

20 minutes ago, bwpage3 said:

Look at some of the western style houses advertised on TV here. There are many over US $300,000. 

My current house in Thailand (5 years back) cost $40,000 3 bed modern house, 10Km from the city centre of Thailands 2nd largest tourist/university city (Chiang Mai).

My last house in the UK (20 years back) cost $400,000 4 bed modern house, 20Km from the city centre of one of the UKs largest tourist/university cities (Oxford).

I even have similar neighbours, doctors, managers, lawyers, and other professionals.

 

I'm definitely comparing like with like, council tax in the UK $2000pa, mooban fees in Thailand $130pa.

Here they collect the trash every week, in the UK it was every 2 weeks (and I had to sort it myself).

 

33 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

What I was talking about, was ‘if’ you want to eat western food (not always), have good AC in your house, decent housing, then the cost of living isn’t that much different.

 

Learn to cook.

My western food is cheaper to make in Thailand than it is for me to make in the UK.

Cheese and wine more expensive here, but that's about it.

 

Didn't have air con in the Uk, oil fired central heating about $1000pa, air con here works out at around $150pa.

22 minutes ago, bwpage3 said:

I think you right on target there. I find it odd people will sell up their western lifestyle, move to Thailand and live in a one room flat or tin shack in Isaan because that is all they can afford, then jump and down trying to convince everyone how cheap it is.

 

I would say only a tiny percentage of farangs who live here do that. Exceptions don't make the rule.

13 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

My current house in Thailand (5 years back) cost $40,000 3 bed modern house, 10Km from the city centre of Thailands 2nd largest tourist city.

My last house in the UK (20 years back) cost $400,000 4 bed modern house, 20Km from the city centre of one of the UKs largest tourist cities.

 

I'm definitely comparing like with like, council tax in the UK $2000pa, mooban fees in Thailand $130pa.

Here they collect the trash every week, in the UK it was every 2 weeks (and I had to sort it myself).

 

How much would your UK house be worth today?

33 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

No problem living in Thailand and not learning Thai language -- as one of our esteemed members here noted, you can always point.

 

Hahaha... yes, some people can just point. But that would never work for me.

 

I well recall 20 yrs ago, my first day teaching in a large university. Having had no

breakfast, I was starved when I finally went to the university cafeteria for lunch.

But then I discovered that if I don't speak Thai, I can't eat -- bcoz I don't eat pork.

 

Went to HR and ask the nice English speaking lady how to say, "I don't want any

pork." It was the very first phrase I learned. "Mai ao moo." Saved my life.

 

Soon after that I enrolled in Thai language class. Having worked as a linguist my

entire career, I enjoyed that class immensely. I found  many affinities between

Chinese and Thai. Good fun.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Poottrong said:

I would say only a tiny percentage of farangs who live here do that. Exceptions don't make the rule.

What do you think the percentage of expats that moved to Thailand live in a Thai house that cost/worth/quality/size the same as one they moved from?

A company I helped start when I was in my early 20's was years later sold and I got enough out of to finance the rest of my life. What got to me in USA was people asking: How come you aren't at work today? What do you live on? and more totally intrusive questions.

 

Here in Thailand I definitely live down scale from what I can afford but nobody bothers me. I speak Thai well enough (after learning Chinese not such a big deal) to deal with Thais who don't speak English and those are the ones with whom I prefer to associate. 

 

I have enough ongoing endeavors including NGO activity in USA and international so life is not dull. I am a legal resident of Florida and though I enjoy visiting most every year I have no plans barring some medical necessity to live there.
 

OP: You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave...

5 minutes ago, bwpage3 said:

How much would your UK house be worth today?

The smaller 3 bed house (next door to my old house in the UK) sold for $620,000 last year (according to rightmove)

Wasn't even very special, window frames were all softwood and rotting when I left.

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

The smaller 3 bed house (next door to my old house in the UK) sold for $620,000 last year (according to rightmove)

Wasn't even very special, window frames were all softwood and rotting when I left.

Very good appreciation to offset the costs.

6 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

My current house cost $40,000 3 bed modern house, 10Km from the city centre of Thailands 2nd largest tourist city,  as good as anywhere I've lived in the UK.

My last house in the UK cost $400,000 4 bed modern house, 20Km from the city centre of one of the UKs largest tourist cities.

yeah, the UK's a shithole, innit! ?

I lived in Thailand for 8 years, then left and took the family with me for 4 years, until, 3 years ago the wife went back to Thailand with the kids. To be honest, I'm not sure I want to go back! I go there on holiday about 9 times a year and I can't usually get through 10 days without getting pissed off at all the new regulations and the low quality of things over there.

My brother recently returned to the UK after 20 years in China and is loving it, so I'm considering going back to the UK and taking the kids with me (I'm currently in the middle east).

If I don't go there, then there are other options I've looked at in South America and Africa, which might give me what I'm looking for. 

The major reasons for not staying are the lack of reasonably priced wine, cheese and the general amateurish, childish attitudes in almost everything. AS someone has said earlier, if you want to live like a thai, then you can be fine, but if you want western things and quality clothes/building/car/food/music etc, etc, then just forget it!   As someone also said, the Thai quality of life (according to thais) has also gone down, and even though there are more rich people, the life of the average thai seems worse, after all the cost increases and restrictions on being able to make a living! A lot of my western friends fly to Bangkok, then immediately go to Cambodia, Myanmar or Vietnam, sometimes without any time in Thailand at all. The official figures on tourism don't seem to reflect the picture on the ground....

As my kids are half thai, I'll always have a connection to Thailand, but to live there???  hmmmm, not sure about that!

6 minutes ago, manjara said:

yeah, the UK's a shithole, innit! ?

I lived in Thailand for 8 years, then left and took the family with me for 4 years, until, 3 years ago the wife went back to Thailand with the kids. To be honest, I'm not sure I want to go back! I go there on holiday about 9 times a year and I can't usually get through 10 days without getting pissed off at all the new regulations and the low quality of things over there.

My brother recently returned to the UK after 20 years in China and is loving it, so I'm considering going back to the UK and taking the kids with me (I'm currently in the middle east).

If I don't go there, then there are other options I've looked at in South America and Africa, which might give me what I'm looking for. 

The major reasons for not staying are the lack of reasonably priced wine, cheese and the general amateurish, childish attitudes in almost everything. AS someone has said earlier, if you want to live like a thai, then you can be fine, but if you want western things and quality clothes/building/car/food/music etc, etc, then just forget it!   As someone also said, the Thai quality of life (according to thais) has also gone down, and even though there are more rich people, the life of the average thai seems worse, after all the cost increases and restrictions on being able to make a living! A lot of my western friends fly to Bangkok, then immediately go to Cambodia, Myanmar or Vietnam, sometimes without any time in Thailand at all. The official figures on tourism don't seem to reflect the picture on the ground....

As my kids are half thai, I'll always have a connection to Thailand, but to live there???  hmmmm, not sure about that!

Since moving back to Florida USA 4 years ago, my life is much more relaxed and stress free not having to deal with all the nuances of living in Thailand. I have yet to have one of my truck side mirrors broken off by a motorbike weaving in and out of traffic! Wife has all the conveniences of buying Thai food, Thai friends, etc. and doesn't miss Thailand one bit. All good.

11 minutes ago, manjara said:

yeah, the UK's a shithole, innit! ?

I lived in Thailand for 8 years, then left and took the family with me for 4 years, until, 3 years ago the wife went back to Thailand with the kids. To be honest, I'm not sure I want to go back! I go there on holiday about 9 times a year and I can't usually get through 10 days without getting pissed off at all the new regulations and the low quality of things over there.

My brother recently returned to the UK after 20 years in China and is loving it, so I'm considering going back to the UK and taking the kids with me (I'm currently in the middle east).

If I don't go there, then there are other options I've looked at in South America and Africa, which might give me what I'm looking for. 

The major reasons for not staying are the lack of reasonably priced wine, cheese and the general amateurish, childish attitudes in almost everything. AS someone has said earlier, if you want to live like a thai, then you can be fine, but if you want western things and quality clothes/building/car/food/music etc, etc, then just forget it!   As someone also said, the Thai quality of life (according to thais) has also gone down, and even though there are more rich people, the life of the average thai seems worse, after all the cost increases and restrictions on being able to make a living! A lot of my western friends fly to Bangkok, then immediately go to Cambodia, Myanmar or Vietnam, sometimes without any time in Thailand at all. The official figures on tourism don't seem to reflect the picture on the ground....

As my kids are half thai, I'll always have a connection to Thailand, but to live there???  hmmmm, not sure about that!

Amazing post...Which I wish I hadn't read...?..

It's not a binary choice.

 

Comparing your experience here (or in any foreign country) to the arbitrary country of your birth just demonstrates how you haven't transcended your arbitrary origins, or travelled much.

 

When a potato travels around the world it remains a potato.

 

 

1 hour ago, bwpage3 said:

What do you think the percentage of expats that moved to Thailand live in a Thai house that cost/worth/quality/size the same as one they moved from?

It's called downsizing and a lot of people enjoy the experience of simplifying their lives. I know I have. Doesn't mean we're all living in "tin shacks" though.

1 hour ago, bwpage3 said:

My wife's village has no restaurants, no stores (Nearest about 32km away), no movie theaters, no nothing. Roads are full of potholes, utilities suck, you name it. No one to speak English with.

Hmmmm…….can see why you moved!

 

However people just don't fall into categories like those that have been mentioned and some folks retire here because of the weather for example, others because they like the nightlife and the vibrancy of the place, and others for health reasons or because it's just time for a move! Or of course that they simply got tired of their home country!

 

I know other expats like myself who live here and are well enough off to be able to afford just about anything they want,  but don't want to buy a big house (been there done that many times) and are quite happy to live in a one bedroomed apartment because it suits them, esp if they are single.

 

My take on Thailand is that I can live as cheaply or as expensively as I wish, and that's exactly what I do! I eat good food, enjoy my wine to the tune of about 180,000 baht per annum and eat out as often as I want. However as I do enjoy cooking I cook Thai food, Italian and French food as well as experimenting with all sorts of other recipes.

 

If for whatever reason I was short of money, then I could quite easily exist on that which I could buy from the local supermarket/market and knock up a dish or two which would satisfy my tastebuds, all for a lot cheaper than my home country.

 

And if it is about comparing prices, then the house I bought here would cost me three times as much back home and my apartment rent for a month here would not even get me a shared room in someone else's house.

 

On to other things – – gasoline here is almost half the price as my home country and rates other incrementals etc here are cheap as to be almost non-existent.

 

I do know guys here who are living on the UK or Australian pensions and they struggle to do that, however if they were back in their home country they would struggle even more.

 

On the other hand I know guys like me who managed to put funds away or invest in a pension and can do just about whatever they want with regards to their living standards.

 

So in summary, this place can be as good or as bad as you want it to be provided you have the funds, however if you don't, then IMO you can still live a reasonable life here.