peterb17 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 4 hours ago, DM07 said: Yeah...ahm...this is wrong on so many levels, I don't even know, where to start! Don’t give some rubbish one sentence- perhaps you should start - why is this wrong - explain ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCC1701A Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 are the heads going to be shaved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malt25 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 5 hours ago, DM07 said: Yeah...ahm...this is wrong on so many levels, I don't even know, where to start! "Yeah...ahm...this is wrong on so many levels, I don't even know, where to start!" Yes you do know. You have started right here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Please keept it civil. One post has been reported and removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mogandave Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 18 hours ago, canuckamuck said: As far as the Christian boy is concerned it is a little like forcing a Jewish or Muslin kid to eat pork. That's a pretty uncool thing to do to a kid who has already been through a lot. It is nothing like that. It it is like a Buddhist going to a Catholic school. I’m guessing the boy will love it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 To be a monk by choosing is ok but you have to be a monk is not so good, although they all will have to shave their head and get the robe and the pouch and perhaps cendalls. Today's the new generation of monks are very different lap top pc, p3 music, chewing this leafs while chanting to buddha it is ok now. So the kids will have more self discipline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joecoolfrog Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 18 hours ago, canuckamuck said: Their isn't a lot of things explicitly forbidden in Christianity, but worshiping other spirits is definitely one of them. This would cause tremendous issues of conscience for any practicing Christian. But what's a stateless boy in the spotlight of a Buddhist country going to do? Say no? Nasty business. Who says he is a practising Christian rather than a nominal one. I was Christened , went to Sunday school etc yet by the age of 12 or 13 most definitely had turned my back on any form of religious devotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post jerry921 Posted July 23, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 23, 2018 5 hours ago, mogandave said: It is nothing like that. It it is like a Buddhist going to a Catholic school. I’m guessing the boy will love it. Sorry, I disagree strenuously, but will skip giving my arguments again. Because besides being wrong, you're late. He's already skipped it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerry921 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 5 hours ago, joecoolfrog said: Who says he is a practising Christian rather than a nominal one. I was Christened , went to Sunday school etc yet by the age of 12 or 13 most definitely had turned my back on any form of religious devotion. This is a legitimate point, and I think I mentioned it in my long post #147. However it is also now moot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mogandave Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 Sorry, I disagree strenuously.....Yeah, great point.Not 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Allen Black Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 On 7/23/2018 at 6:10 AM, bluesofa said: How come all thirteen are becoming monks. I thought one of them was Christian, or is he ambidextrous? The Buddhists don't mind if you are a Christian, and certain Protestant groups would not disapprove of the monkhood routine as well. (Parenthetically, the amusing thought I had after the rescue was 'What will happen the next time the young "Coach" gets it into his cute little head to go rock-climbing or spelunking or skin-diving with the "Wild Boars"? How many parents are going to be gung-ho about entrusting their kids to this daring and adventuresome fellow again?') Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smileydude Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 On 7/23/2018 at 6:10 AM, bluesofa said: How come all thirteen are becoming monks. I thought one of them was Christian, or is he ambidextrous? In its purist form Buddhism is more a way of life and a philosophy then it should be a religion. Monkhood itself is a period of forming a state of mind of enlightenment rather then believing in a power above. I think if properly performed and practiced, monkhood may actually be helpful for these young lads at least to give them the basics of conscious awareness that may prevent them from developing PTSD but it is only for a short 9 days so more importantly that the boys and parents themselves do not fall into the lure and trap of money and fame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sheryl Posted July 24, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 24, 2018 I think you are all overlooking the psychological and societal aspects of this. The main function it will serve -- and a very, very important one -- is to honor and repay the sacrifices made by others for their sake, and to make up for the suffering of their parents. Without this, they will still have that burden on them, all the more so for having flouted societal expectations.That many foreigners do not accept or understsnd this as serving these purposes in no way changes the fact that, for Thais, it does.Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernieOnTour Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 On 7/23/2018 at 1:14 AM, canuckamuck said: As far as the Christian boy is concerned it is a little like forcing a Jewish or Muslin kid to eat pork. That's a pretty uncool thing to do to a kid who has already been through a lot. I had years ago the "pleasure" to watch christian ministries at work, when "bringing" the "rea"l faith to the "hethens", when hiking... Therefore, I'm asking myself, who is responsible for "force" here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM07 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 15 hours ago, peterb17 said: Don’t give some rubbish one sentence- perhaps you should start - why is this wrong - explain ? Okay...let's start with your "you have no right to criticize"... WHAT? I have all the right to criticize: I am person with a brain and when I see things, I deem wrong, I criticize them! Thais have all the right to ignore me- but that is a completely different thing! So you have a "beautiful Buddha- image" in your home, but you really don't like all the "tourist stuff"! Who made you master of taste or the taste police? You state the fact, that religion shaped countries and morals- and I say: great...now let's stop this BS and reverse it, because in my opinion (which I am allowed to have, as you are allowed to have yours, no matter how wrong i personally think it is) NOTHING good EVER came from religion and the sooner we would be able to make people stop following stone age fairy tales FOR ANY REASON WHATSOEVER, the better it would be! To your point "we are guests here": I don't know, how you treat the hundreds of Thais, who come to your house on a daily basis, but here is what I don't do to my guests: I don't invite them in and then I charge them 300 Baht for using the toilet. Of these 300 Baht, I take 100 Baht and buy toilet paper, 100 Baht I use to buy flowers for my balcony and another 100 I stuff into my own pocket! Oh...and when one of my guests criticizes my taste in music, I don't throw him into my basement with all the other guys who dare criticize my apartment or the way I run it! And now: off you go....loving everything Thai! Have a good day! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metisdead Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 A post containing offensive as well as off topic generalizations has been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eligius Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 42 minutes ago, DM07 said: Okay...let's start with your "you have no right to criticize"... WHAT? I have all the right to criticize: I am person with a brain and when I see things, I deem wrong, I criticize them! Thais have all the right to ignore me- but that is a completely different thing! ... To your point "we are guests here": I don't know, how you treat the hundreds of Thais, who come to your house on a daily basis, but here is what I don't do to my guests: I don't invite them in and then I charge them 300 Baht for using the toilet. Of these 300 Baht, I take 100 Baht and buy toilet paper, 100 Baht I use to buy flowers for my balcony and another 100 I stuff into my own pocket! Oh...and when one of my guests criticizes my taste in music, I don't throw him into my basement with all the other guys who dare criticize my apartment or the way I run it! And now: off you go....loving everything Thai! Have a good day! Yes, DM07: we have every right to criticise what we perceive to be wrong - it doesn't matter where we are living; we are still human beings who can think and think critically. We don't have to believe or adopt everything simply because it is 'part of the culture'. The culture may - heaven forfend - be wrong in certain aspects. That is for all of us human beings (not sheep or cattle) to judge for ourselves. There should be no compulsion on us all to drink the Koolaid liquids of conformism. As for being 'guests' here: well, I like to treat my own guests (and do) in a decidedly friendly, welcoming and equal way ... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerry921 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 It's not requires, as far as I know, to hand your brain over to the IO at swampy when you get stamped in. People can still make observations and criticisms, wherever they go to live, though someone who never does anything but complain gets a bit tiresome. I think it's curious that while in most threads there's a chorus of voices complaining that Thai's don't think enough, in a case like this where Thai culture is sending the boys off to meditate for a few days the chorus is largely against the time out. Maybe I'm not distinguishing enough between those, like myself, who were talking only about Adul, and those who were against sending the other 11 off to the temple. If we separate out those who were talking just about Adul, is it still fair to say there's a chorus against what's being done to the rest? If the 11 Buddhist kids go for a short-time stay at the monastery I'm not against it as long as they're protected while they're there from anything bad happening to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKr Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 On 7/23/2018 at 6:10 AM, bluesofa said: How come all thirteen are becoming monks. I thought one of them was Christian, or is he ambidextrous? .Even though he was baptised, and is considered Christian, that is no reason to separate him from his Friends while coming to grips with what has happened. Going it alone may do more damage than spending 9 days learning something. Also, Buddhism is a Philosophy, so what is wrong when someone that is following a Religion, learns some additional skills. Christians are so dogmatic ... not to mention other reiterations of the old Testament .. ( to pre-empt some open door comments: yes, I was baptised ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM07 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 1 hour ago, jerry921 said: It's not requires, as far as I know, to hand your brain over to the IO at swampy when you get stamped in. People can still make observations and criticisms, wherever they go to live, though someone who never does anything but complain gets a bit tiresome. I think it's curious that while in most threads there's a chorus of voices complaining that Thai's don't think enough, in a case like this where Thai culture is sending the boys off to meditate for a few days the chorus is largely against the time out. Maybe I'm not distinguishing enough between those, like myself, who were talking only about Adul, and those who were against sending the other 11 off to the temple. If we separate out those who were talking just about Adul, is it still fair to say there's a chorus against what's being done to the rest? If the 11 Buddhist kids go for a short-time stay at the monastery I'm not against it as long as they're protected while they're there from anything bad happening to them. I stated, that I am against any form of religious "indoctrination" (as I am lacking a better word). I find it kind of curious, that a 9 day Buddhist retreat is basically seen as a valid substitute for getting the boys back to "normal" life ASAP and support them with some kind of psychological guidance. I think speaking (or not) about their adventure with an experienced psychologist, might be more helpfull than sweeping leavses, having your head shaved and meditate in silence. But that is just my uninformed opinion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HHTel Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 7 hours ago, DM07 said: "we are guests here" I know it's not your quote DM just that you repeated it in your post. We are not guests by any stretch of the imagination. A guest is invited into your home or in this case country. We have never been invited. However, once here we are commanded to jump through lots of hoops to stay here. We can be kicked out at the drop of a hat, never to return. A guest is afforded all the privileges of the host, but in our case our 'host' will demand certain behaviour and payments. We are ordered to report ourselves every 90 days akin to a parolee. Guests are welcomed. We are not! I could go on but I think I've made my point. Would you treat your guests in this manner. WE ARE NOT GUESTS IN THIS COUNTRY! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 You are right H it is more like we rent the right to stay longer and the cost is always there you know I am from Canada and perhaps if this country would adopt the same requirement reporting every 90 or so days it would eliminate a lot of illegals and do a clean up in the immigration system. And by all means we are not real guess when you have to report every three months even being married to a Thai . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eligius Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 (edited) 42 minutes ago, HHTel said: I know it's not your quote DM just that you repeated it in your post. We are not guests by any stretch of the imagination. A guest is invited into your home or in this case country. We have never been invited. However, once here we are commanded to jump through lots of hoops to stay here. We can be kicked out at the drop of a hat, never to return. A guest is afforded all the privileges of the host, but in our case our 'host' will demand certain behaviour and payments. We are ordered to report ourselves every 90 days akin to a parolee. Guests are welcomed. We are not! I could go on but I think I've made my point. Would you treat your guests in this manner. WE ARE NOT GUESTS IN THIS COUNTRY! Totally agree with you, HHTel. In fact, I said as much in a fairly powerful post earlier today - but that post was not 'approved', and so you will not have seen it. Everything you write (above) is spot on. I would not (and do not) treat my guests in the way that 'guests' in Thailand are treated by the presiding powers. I would be ashamed of myself if I did! Anyway - your post says it all extremely eloquently. Edited July 24, 2018 by Eligius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khaowong1 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 I understand one of the kids opted out of going the novice monk route. Is this true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eligius Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, khaowong1 said: I understand one of the kids opted out of going the novice monk route. Is this true? Yes. The Christian boy is not doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surangw Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 tradition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DILLIGAD Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 Totally agree with you, HHTel. In fact, I said as much in a fairly powerful post earlier today - but that post was not 'approved', and so you will not have seen it. Everything you write (above) is spot on. I would not (and do not) treat my guests in the way that 'guests' in Thailand are treated by the presiding powers. I would be ashamed of myself if I did! Anyway - your post says it all extremely eloquently. Maybe we should say that we are on ‘parole’ here???Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menyang Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 On 7/23/2018 at 6:19 AM, canuckamuck said: Yeah the government is protecting them from the press, but who is going to protect them from the government? Who is going to protect them from the monks.....oops I'll get my coat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menyang Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 Did I miss Prayut thanking all those foreign diviers with a medal. Truth being for all the helpers on site and the tragic death of a former Thai seal, without johnny foreigner the children would have perished. Can t wait for the PM to hang medals around the necks of all those foreigners. Like admitting , in this case, Thailand is not number 1.... why wont that ever happen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 9 minutes ago, Menyang said: Did I miss Prayut thanking all those foreign diviers with a medal. Truth being for all the helpers on site and the tragic death of a former Thai seal, without johnny foreigner the children would have perished. Can t wait for the PM to hang medals around the necks of all those foreigners. Like admitting , in this case, Thailand is not number 1.... why wont that ever happen It would be better if we all could celebrate the rescuers as one team , rather concentrating on where individual people came from . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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