Major Change Eff 1 Apr 19 in Bangkok Bank ACH Transfers

[Langsuan Man]

USAA is faster than most banks since they don't borrow from the FED, they cover the cash with their own funds.  Which they can do due to the massive amounts of cash they generate via the various financial and retail products they offer

 

When you do an domestic incoming transfer with them the money is credited to your account instantly, even if it takes several days for the outside funds to get into your account.  The only limiting factor is their daily $5,000 EFTS transfer limits, which for a good reason and a telephone call can be increased

[Pib]

29 minutes ago, Langsuan Man said:

When you do an domestic incoming transfer with them the money is credited to your account instantly, even if it takes several days for the outside funds to get into your account.  The only limiting factor is their daily $5,000 EFTS transfer limits, which for a good reason and a telephone call can be increased

Yeap....just last week I initiated a pull of several thousand dollars from one of my other US banks....USAA posted the amount to my account immediately.  That withdrawal did not post to my other bank for several more days.   Several years ago I raised my EFTS limit from $5K to $15K with USAA but it took a short email to them with some justification...they approved the permanent increase a few days later.

[JohnOFphon]

So has anyone received a deposit from a bank that does not send in the IAT format?

A transaction that was deposited in BKNY  on the 1st, or 2nd of this month.  Today being the 3rd it should show up this morning after 10.

I have a deposit scheduled for the 4th in NY and has always arrived the next day here, from my Las Vegas bank that does not send in the IAT format. I verified that with NY a couple of weeks ago.

If someone has had their transfer returned it would be nice to know, so I can cancel before it's too late.

 

[richsilver]

As I reported on Monday, I did an ACH transfer from E-Trade early Monday morning (our time) and got a confirmation at 9:44 this morning from Bangkok Bank that the money is in my account here in Pattaya (31.58 is the rate).

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 hours ago, JohnOFphon said:

So has anyone received a deposit from a bank that does not send in the IAT format?

A transaction that was deposited in BKNY  on the 1st, or 2nd of this month.  Today being the 3rd it should show up this morning after 10.

I have a deposit scheduled for the 4th in NY and has always arrived the next day here, from my Las Vegas bank that does not send in the IAT format. I verified that with NY a couple of weeks ago.

If someone has had their transfer returned it would be nice to know, so I can cancel before it's too late.

 

As the two posts above confirm, regular ACH transfers are continuing to be processed by BKKB's NY branch for onward credit to Thailand, same as usual -- for the time being.

 

And, there are no known U.S. banks or credit unions that allow their retail/consumer customers to send IAT compatible ACH transfers right now. So, basically, ANY ACH transfer that you or I or anyone here might initiate from a U.S. bank or credit union is going to be NON-IAT compatible.

 

[marcusarelus]

My SS just got here and as far as I know it is IAT.  VA yesterday.

[Berkshire]

2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

As the two posts above confirm, regular ACH transfers are continuing to be processed by BKKB's NY branch for onward credit to Thailand, same as usual -- for the time being.

 

And, there are no known U.S. banks or credit unions that allow their retail/consumer customers to send IAT compatible ACH transfers right now. So, basically, ANY ACH transfer that you or I or anyone here might initiate from a U.S. bank or credit union is going to be NON-IAT compatible.

 

I believe you're correct re last paragraph.  I asked my US bank a few months ago if they could do international ACH and they responded with "No, all international transfers must be wire transfers"....or words to that effect.  I guess they didn't realize that I'd been doing international ACH for years; perhaps transfers to BKK Bank NY was considered a domestic transfer.  Anyways, I have my monthly ACH scheduled for the 3rd.  Should arrive by Friday....hopefully. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

8 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

I believe you're correct re last paragraph.  I asked my US bank a few months ago if they could do international ACH and they responded with "No, all international transfers must be wire transfers"....or words to that effect.  I guess they didn't realize that I'd been doing international ACH for years; perhaps transfers to BKK Bank NY was considered a domestic transfer.  Anyways, I have my monthly ACH scheduled for the 3rd.  Should arrive by Friday....hopefully. 

 

The U.S. ACH system has always been intended, AFAIK, to be a domestic transfers system. The fact that BKKB has been able to use it all these years as a convenient and less expensive international transfer method for sending funds from the U.S. to Thailand is one of those oddities...

 

I know BKKB is not the only foreign bank to have a U.S. ACH/routing number, nor are they the only foreign bank with some kind of branch presence in the U.S.  But whether any of the others with that status have operated any kind of similar forwarding systems in past years, that I don't know.

 

But you're right about the way the traditional U.S. banking system is structured:

--domestic transfer usually means ACH (or less commonly a domestic wire transfer).

--international transfer means international wire transfer, and the usually high fees that come with that.

 

For retail/consumer banking customers, IAT isn't even in their vocabulary...

 

 

 

[Pib]

I'm proud to announce I finally succeeded in getting my family member's SSA pension payment corrected to IAT format...the member was one of the 20% of payments coming to Bangkok Bank which was not in IAT format and being threatened by possible Bangkok Bank rejection effective 1 Apr which has apparently been extended to some unknown date.  And I even got my SSA payment going to my US bank corrected to IAT format.   

 

How did I do it after six months of emails, letters, and calls to the Manila and Baltimore SSA offices asking them to correct to IAT format?  Asking the SSA offices to use either of our Thailand addresses if our address was the problem....including the Bangkok Bank letter announcing the change in the correspondence with SSA.  Well, I had nothing but negative results up until last month (March) when I forced an address update...or maybe I should say deletion.

 

My family member and I both have our Bangkok residential/physical address and a JUSMAG military APO address here in Bangkok on file with SSA....the APO address is used for our "mailing" address.  Both addresses are foreign addresses although the APO address directly interfaces with the US Postal System.  As military retirees here in Thailand who might have an APO address also should already know the JUSMAG APO is shutting down come October.   In preparation for the APO address going away, I requested the APO address be deleted from our SSA records (i.e, me and the family member), and that leaves us with only our Bangkok Bank residential/physical address on-file with the SSA.  By mid March the address update was complete....got feedback from Manila and we could see the change in our mySSA online accounts.  At that time I also wondered if that might fix the IAT payment issue for my family member....didn't know...would have to wait until at least the next payment in early April.  Didn't care about the IAT for me as my payment went to a US bank.

 

OK, early April arrived.  Last night when checking my US bank ibanking I noticed my SSA pension had posted and I also notice something different....the payment "description" was different for all previous payments.  Instead of the description starting off as "SSA Treas 310..." it started off as "Social Security...."  I immediately knew from my discussions with one of the primarily Bangkok Bank reps on this IAT goatrope that if your payment description starts off with "SSA Treas 310" as shown in the 1st snapshot below it was highly, highly probable the payment was "not" in IAT format.  But if it started off with just Social Security it was highly, highly probable the payment was in IAT format.  See below snapshots from my US bank ibanking.  1st snapshot is a "non-IAT" payment for my last month's SSA payment (before my address update); 2nd snapshot is an "IAT" payment (after the address update). 

 

1st Snapshot: Non-IAT SSA Payment...from my US bank ibanking

 

2nd Snapshot: IAT SSA Payment...from my US bank ibanking

 

 

OK, what about my family member's SS payment to a Bangkok Bank account.   The member's 1 Mar payment and all previous payments were in "non-IAT" payment which I confirmed by contacting Bangkok Bank   However, the member's 3 Apr (today) SS payment was an IAT payment...I called Bangkok Bank to confirm it was in IAT format.  Notice the 1 March "non-IAT" payment SMS starts off with "SSA Treas 310" (the dreaded SSA Treas 310)....pretty much a sure sign of a non-IAT payment which as mentioned I confirmed with Bangkok bank it was a non-IAT payment.  But the 3 Apr/today SMS starts off with "Social Security" and has been confirmed as in IAT format.   My family member is now in the 80% of SSA payments to Bangkok Bank which are in IAT format; no longer in the 20% of "not in IAT format."  

 

 

So, for you folks seeing "SSA Treas 310" in your ibanking or SMS notices that pretty much a sure sign your SS payment is "not" in IAT format.  If you are seeing "Social Security" it is in IAT format but contact Bangkok Bank to confirm.

 

And one final thing, in both my and my family member's mySSA online accounts in the Direct Deposit area where it use to just show only the bank name and type of account (i.e., Savings or Checking) it also now includes the last 4 digits of our bank accounts.  Up until a few days ago that area never reflected the last 4 digits of our bank accounts....I do not know if maybe that is just a very recent change for "everyone" receiving a payment (whether in IAT format or not, whether living in or outside the US, etc.)....OR, that is because our payments have been changed to IAT format. 

 

For anyone out there who knows for sure their payment is "not" in IAT format and also has a mySSA online account, I would be interested to know if your Direct Deposit area also know shows (or doesn't show) the last few digits of your bank account.   Would help me to determine if the bank digits now showing is just a system upgrade for all SS beneficiaries...OR those digits only show if a payment is being made in IAT format...or maybe via "IDD" which is still in testing phase the last I heard a few weeks ago from Manila.

 

Summary: SS payment to me and the family member are now in IAT format and apparently the key was address related....dropping our APO address and only going with our Bangkok residential address.

 

 

 

 

[bkk6060]

Got mine also today.

My original bank in US is Chase.

I called them about  month ago to try to get info and spoke to 2 supervisors.  They told me they had never heard of the IAT format???

[Pib]

5 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Got mine also today.

My original bank in US is Chase.

I called them about  month ago to try to get info and spoke to 2 supervisors.  They told me they had never heard of the IAT format???

In your ibanking what "description" is used? 

 

Does the description included "SSA Treas 310" or "Social Security?"  See my examples a few posts up.

 

I'm assuming your meant your SSA payment arrived to your Chase account today; but maybe you meant to your Bangkok Bank account?   Or maybe you are just talking a regular bank transfer you did versus your SSA payment?

[srowndedbyh2o]

11 hours ago, Pib said:

...or maybe via "IDD" which is still in testing phase the last I heard a few weeks ago from Manila.

Could that be the reason for the delay in the cutoff date of April 1st for non-IAT transfers.?

Maybe they are delaying until the IDD transfers are fully implemented before they cut off the ACH/IAT transfer method. ?

SSA payments changed to IAT format may be a temporary "fix" until IDD kicks in. (?)

[Pib]

7 hours ago, srowndedbyh2o said:

Could that be the reason for the delay in the cutoff date of April 1st for non-IAT transfers.?

Maybe they are delaying until the IDD transfers are fully implemented before they cut off the ACH/IAT transfer method. ?

SSA payments changed to IAT format may be a temporary "fix" until IDD kicks in. (?)

 

I fully expect that is a major factor.   That is, some SSA and other govt payments not being sent in ACH "IAT" format and just switching a person's payment to IAT format may not be easy/possible depending on the person's situations/banking situation/address/etc., Or, maybe even the govt agency hasn't transitioned to using IAT yet.....instead, they decided to remain with domestic ACH or their own IDD program....like how DFAS has a IDD program from the SSA IDD program...the list of countries on the DFAS IDD program (which does not include Thailand) is only approx half that of the SSA IDD program which now includes Thailand.

 

SSA sending some beneficiary payments in IAT format is not a temporary fix....they have been capable of and been sending IAT payments for many beneficiaries living outside the US for years, but not to all depending on the address a person has onfile with SSA and other factors.

 

The ACH IAT and IDD programs are two completely separately programs....both will continue to be used for payment to folks in Thailand.   But the IDD program is still in the testing phase based on the feedback I got from Manila several weeks ago....this feedback mirrors what other folks were being told when asking Manila. 

 

The IDD for Thailand was surely initiated to help offset the impact of Bangkok Bank saying they must stop non-IAT payments 1 Apr 19 which apparently has been extended/delayed since non-IAT payments from US banks and non-IAT govt payments are still getting thru.  Expect they got an extension from the US Treasury OCC which one of the primary reps at HQ Bangkok Bank on this IAT issue told me face-to-face back in early March that Bangkok Bank NY branch had requested an extension....and I bet the SSA (and maybe other govt agencies) was supporting that request.  Or, Bangkok Bank NY figured out another way to legally continue non-IAT format transfers/payments. I'm not a betting man but I expect they just got an extension to the deadline.

 

Below is a cut and paste from the US Embassy-Bangkok webpage from Oct 18 talking about how they were working with the SSA to get SSA IDD for Thailand going and how it will be implemented first quarter of 2019.  But the first quarter has come and gone with no notification that IDD for Thailand has went operational....instead, it's still in the testing phase.

 

[srowndedbyh2o]

3 hours ago, Pib said:

SSA sending some beneficiary payments in IAT format is not a temporary fix....they have been capable of and been sending IAT payments for many beneficiaries living outside the US for years

I understand that they have been making transfers both IAT and non, for a long time,

since the IDD transfer method has not been available to Thailand.

I’m just guessing, but I imagine that even after they get the IDD transfer process to work, it will be quite the challenge to change everybody over to the new system. What I meant by my “temporary” statement, was that maybe recent accounts changing to IAT format is a way for the SSA to comply with the state department rules until everyone is transitioned over to IDD and the process is proven to function as intended.

 

[Pib]

When SAA IDD goes operational for Thailand I expect it will co-exist with ACH IAT, as both are specifically for international transfers.  I seriously doubt people will "have" to switch to IDD...only switch if they want to.

 

I think the three biggest factors as to if people change from ACH to IDD will be:

 

1.  People whose payment is not in ACH IAT format (that 20% of people Bangkok Bank talks about) will probably want to switch to IDD.  I expect a lot of those folks are ones who still retain a US address on-file with the SSA for whatever reason(s) (like maybe to avoid the annual deal or alive letter) but have their SSA payment go to Bangkok.   If switching to IDD they "must" have a foreign address which means they'll need to change their address onfile with SSA to Thailand.

 

2.  Which Thai banks will be part of the IDD program (we shouldn't assume it will be all).  Some Thai banks might not want to have anything to do with the program/US govt payments.

 

3.  And if there are similar restrictions to the current Bangkok Bank Direct Deposit account.....if restrictions are similar then some people may just say, "Why should I change from ACH to IDD....I'm not gaining anything."  I'm hoping there will be few to no restrictions on IDD...but we'll have to wait and see.  And hopefully the IDD fee structure and exchange rate will be better than the ACH method.

 

We'll just need to wait and see what fine print (if any) comes with IDD.

 

 

[JohnOFphon]

Just received my transfer from BKNY. Same way as before...Non IAT format.

 

[Berkshire]

On 4/3/2019 at 2:21 PM, Berkshire said:

I believe you're correct re last paragraph.  I asked my US bank a few months ago if they could do international ACH and they responded with "No, all international transfers must be wire transfers"....or words to that effect.  I guess they didn't realize that I'd been doing international ACH for years; perhaps transfers to BKK Bank NY was considered a domestic transfer.  Anyways, I have my monthly ACH scheduled for the 3rd.  Should arrive by Friday....hopefully. 

Wanted to confirm that my non-IAT sent 3 Apr did arrive today....as per usual.  So the delay in implementing IAT is correct.  I hope they just cancel this IAT idea altogether. 

[Date Masamune]

On 3/30/2019 at 8:33 AM, Date Masamune said:

Scheduled a transfer for Apr 1 from Charles Schwab to BKK Bank NYC as normal to see if it still works

My funds were received in Thailand as normal on APR 2 as an International Transfer.

[Gumballl]

10 hours ago, Date Masamune said:

My funds were received in Thailand as normal on APR 2 as an International Transfer.

Same here; I performed an ACH transfer from BofA to BKK Bank NYC (on my wife's behalf) to my sister in-law's account. The transfer request was made on April 3, and funds (supposedly) delivered the next day.

 

Note: Long, long ago, I had set up the "link" between my BKK Bank account, my wife's account, and her sister's account. I have never had issues transferring money.

[Pib]

 

Below is a partial quote of a Bangkok Bank New York reply to a question I had about non-IAT payments continuing to come through.  I appears they have just delayed the implementation date...are giving customers more time to try to fix their "non-IAT" payments coming from their bank, company, govt agency, etc., or arrange an alternate money transfer method.   

 

In my opinion Bangkok Bank NY requested an extension from US Treasury OCC with the core justification being the impact on those many beneficiaries who receive "non-IAT US govt payments" such as social security payments.   The SSA IDD for Thailand was suppose to go operational the first quarter of 2019 (i.e., by 31 Mar 19) according to a US Embassy-Bangkok Oct 18 statement but did not go operational in the first quarter....it's still in the testing phase....but I bet SSA is close to going operational.   If such an OCC extension was approved it might have been too tough to only let US govt payments through and block all other non-IAT payments like bank transfers.  So, for now, all non-IAT transfers are still being allowed to go through.  

 

But I think it's clear from the quote the 1 Apr 19 date has only been delayed by Bangkok Bank....like how BREXIT keeps getting delayed, an execution gets delayed, etc., but eventually gets carried out.  So, get your ACH payments changed to IAT format if possible or find an alternative transfer method like SWIFT, money transfer service, etc., as the clock is ticking down but we do not know for how long.

 

  Quote

In order to comply with the NACHA’s rule, our New York Branch should process the ACH transactions to the recipient in Thailand only if it comes in an IAT format with effective from April 1, 2019.  However, we understand that our Bank’s customers are still trying to contact the remitter to change their format or finding an alternative to receive the funds, we, therefore, will not return the non-IAT transaction yet as planned but will continue process such transactions to give more time to the customer to notify the remitter or change the method of payment. 

[Danthai]

Both DFAS and SS came through on 4th. The BKK NY sent me a message concerning the DFAS retired military account and said just make sure they have your local Thai address. SS already had because of sets of forms filled out End of January. Faxed DFAS direct to Retired Pay  changing APO to local address last week of March, and they indicated money would be sent in required IAT format. Son's SSI dirct deposit with foreign address arrived on 4th like clockwork as usual.

[Pib]

Just as a reminder, if you are unsure as to if your govt or civilian ACH payment/transfer from your bank/credit union/brokerage or govt agency is in IAT format or not, you simply need to call/email the points of contact below at HQ Bangkok Bank in Bangkok or Bangkok Bank New York with the details of your payment/transfer you want to check on. 

 

Specifically, approx date of payment/transfer, approx amount, your name, and your Bangkok Bank account number.   

 

This way you will know for sure if your payment/transfer is being sent in IAT format or not.

 

Bangkok Bank New York

 

HQ Bangkok Bank in Bangkok.  

[Pib]

3 minutes ago, Danthai said:

Both DFAS and SS came through on 4th. The BKK NY sent me a message concerning the DFAS retired military account and said just make sure they have your local Thai address. SS already had because of sets of forms filled out End of January. Faxed DFAS direct to Retired Pay  changing APO to local address last week of March, and they indicated money would be sent in required IAT format. Son's SSI dirct deposit with foreign address arrived on 4th like clockwork as usual.

Deleting the APO mailing address on the my family member's SS pension payment which left the member with only the Thailand residential address on-file with SSA seemed to have been the key in getting the payment switched IAT format.   

 

Although an APO address is a foreign address it's also still a US Postal System address just like a person has who resides in the 50 states....I guess the APO address was being treated as a US address "for payment purposes" which means the payment was being coded as a domestic ACH versus an ACH "IAT."

 

 

[Danthai]

On 4/3/2019 at 11:50 AM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

As the two posts above confirm, regular ACH transfers are continuing to be processed by BKKB's NY branch for onward credit to Thailand, same as usual -- for the time being.

 

And, there are no known U.S. banks or credit unions that allow their retail/consumer customers to send IAT compatible ACH transfers right now. So, basically, ANY ACH transfer that you or I or anyone here might initiate from a U.S. bank or credit union is going to be NON-IAT compatible.

 

ALL APO services for retired military is stopping October 1, 2019. There has been no extension so far. For everyone using the APO address through the US Embassy Bangkok to have important US Government documents and mail you don't want the Thai Post to misplace start checking for an alternate arrangement. Announcement posted by JUSTMAG Bangkok, US Embassy, and direct from US Consulate APO in Chiangmai. Those with secure account with DFAS and other secure Government accounts can get military pay and tax documents online. For those who file claims with Tricare Select Overseas, make sure you set up a dirct deposit with a bank. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, Danthai said:

ALL APO services for retired military is stopping October 1, 2019. There has been no extension so far. For everyone using the APO address through the US Embassy Bangkok to have important US Government documents and mail you don't want the Thai Post to misplace start checking for an alternate arrangement. Announcement posted by JUSTMAG Bangkok, US Embassy, and direct from US Consulate APO in Chiangmai. Those with secure account with DFAS and other secure Government accounts can get military pay and tax documents online. For those who file claims with Tricare Select Overseas, make sure you set up a dirct deposit with a bank. 

You're talking about a mail delivery issue for ex-military folks, and the need for making alternate arrangements, which is certainly true.

 

That's pretty much a different issue than my post that you responded to, and that's the status of ACH funds transfer payments from the U.S. to Thailand via BKKB's New York Branch.

 

[marcusarelus]

14 minutes ago, Danthai said:

ALL APO services for retired military is stopping October 1, 2019. There has been no extension so far. For everyone using the APO address through the US Embassy Bangkok to have important US Government documents and mail you don't want the Thai Post to misplace start checking for an alternate arrangement. Announcement posted by JUSTMAG Bangkok, US Embassy, and direct from US Consulate APO in Chiangmai. Those with secure account with DFAS and other secure Government accounts can get military pay and tax documents online. For those who file claims with Tricare Select Overseas, make sure you set up a dirct deposit with a bank. 

I don't believe Foreign Medical Program will pay by direct deposit.  I think the only way is check, at least it was the last time I checked. 

[JimGant]

49 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I don't believe Foreign Medical Program will pay by direct deposit.  I think the only way is check, at least it was the last time I checked. 

 

Tricare Overseas Program will do a direct deposit into a US bank account. In fact, if you file online, they insist on a direct deposit. I doubt, since they ask for an ABA number, and bank account number, that you could do a direct deposit into a Thai bank. And, dollars only, for direct deposits.

[Pib]

Yea, the VA FMP program is still in the stone age regarding payment....they still pay by check unless something has changed over the last year or so. 

 

 

 

But Tricare will Direct Deposit your payment no problem; that's what I have setup for Tricare reimburse for the wife and I....works like a charm....you get an email notice of payment....and over the next day or so it posts to your bank account.

[rjwill01]

After 4 years living in Pattaya and using My Bank in U.S. with a domestic deposit to Bangkok Bank New York. then deposited to my local Bangkok bank, I am now using Transferwise. The reason I changed was that I am moving to Bangsary and the most convenient bank is Krungsri. I always thought that the way I was doing was the easiest and cheapest. Now I come to find out that Transferwise is very easy to use and to my suprise, cheaper than what I have been doing. So today was a win win. 

[mackayae]

Any word on when the ACH transfers thru BBLNY will stop?