Major Change Eff 1 Apr 19 in Bangkok Bank ACH Transfers

[lopburi3]

Quote

I noticed that they have added as one of the reasons for your transfer, 'Funds for long term stay in Thailand'. 

Although mentioned in several posts recently it is very pertinent to discussion and expect it will serve same purpose as the manual flag that has been suggested up until now.  Would urge everyone to make that choice as can't hurt and likely will make sure Bangkok Bank is used if possible.  Although still a chance of another being used expect as close to 100% as we are likely to achieve.   So far it appears immigration will likely allow occasional non ftt transfers if explanation/supporting paperwork is available so it may not be a show stopper if happens.

Edited August 8, 2019 by lopburi3

[JDGRUEN]

On 8/8/2019 at 7:45 AM, Tracechain said:

This may or may not be relative and perhaps even covered elsewhere but on my last Transferwise transfer, I noticed that they have added as one of the reasons for your transfer, 'Funds for long term stay in Thailand'.   The deposit showed international transfer but then again most of my other ones did as well.  I had submitted this recommendation on one of their questionnaires I received from them.   Again apologizes if this is out of place or belongs in another post somewhere. 

I formed a TransferWise Group on FB. It acts as a TW Users Group. We have almost 200 members. Members are Expats who need to document 12 x 65K Baht monthly deposits encoded as International Transfers or equivalent coding.

We did testing of just less than 15 small deposits using the TW Reason as above "Funds for Long term stay in Thailand". All but one generated the International Transfer or equivalent encoding. The negative one we are not sure if it was done correctly. 

One Group member chatted with a senior TW support tech who guided him to a document which clearly stated that using the Reason for Transfer "Fund for long term stay in Thailand" would guide the transfer to the TW partner bank that would result in an encoding of International Transfer or equivalent code in the Expat's Bank account deposit record. 

[rexall]

Thanks for this. I have spoken to a few TW customer reps, but none of them pointed me to "Funds for long stay in Thailand." I have done several transfers and never bothered to read the list all the way to the bottom, "Funds for long stay in Thailand."  The second item "General Monthly Living expenses" looked good so I just stopped there.

Since July, I have been calling customer service and reminding them to manually route the transfer to BBL, and they have all resulted in "International Transfer" noted on my bank statement.

Edited August 9, 2019 by rexall

[Somewhere In Time]

This my first post, I would like to especially thank 'ubonjoe' & 'Pib' for their many insightful thoughts over the past several years on all thaivisa.com topics.  Very much appreciated gents!

 

Earlier today, I received the following via an email from Bangkok Bank's New York branch after asking for the exact date they will stop accepting and processing my personal ACH transactions in non-IAT format:

 

"After Sept 6 2019, Bangkok Bank New York branch will not process ACH transactions that do not have the Standard Class Entry (SEC) code IAT (international ACH transaction)."

 

For now, good to know their latest plan is to accept and process transfers until the Friday after the long U.S. Labor Day weekend. 

 

SIT         

 

     

[soisanuk]

On 8/9/2019 at 7:20 PM, rexall said:

Thanks for this. I have spoken to a few TW customer reps, but none of them pointed me to "Funds for long stay in Thailand." I have done several transfers and never bothered to read the list all the way to the bottom, "Funds for long stay in Thailand."  The second item "General Monthly Living expenses" looked good so I just stopped there.

Since July, I have been calling customer service and reminding them to manually route the transfer to BBL, and they have all resulted in "International Transfer" noted on my bank statement.

It appears this option was recently added - probably because they were contacted by many of us, including me, after their early July 2019 transfers to Bangkok Bank were sent to Kasikorn Bank first, then transferred to their accounts as a SMART (domestic) transfer.  I sent two transfers this month, the first using the "living expense" option and the second using the "long stay in Thailand" option.  Both were sent direct to my Bangkok Bank account and coded FTT -- since I had previously notified TW to send my transfers direct rather than through partner bank (which they said they would do, but not guarantee will always happen), that could be the reason the 2nd deposit was sent direct rather than choosing the "long stay in Thailand" reason.  BUT, because they were inundated with contacts by expats from Thailand re the need for their deposits to go direct and show up as an Int'l transfer, it stands to reason the addition of the "long stay" option would be a way automate their system to send the transfer direct (provided the account is in one of their partner banks of course).

[Pib]

10 hours ago, Somewhere In Time said:

This my first post, I would like to especially thank 'ubonjoe' & 'Pib' for their many insightful thoughts over the past several years on all thaivisa.com topics.  Very much appreciated gents!

 

Earlier today, I received the following via an email from Bangkok Bank's New York branch after asking for the exact date they will stop accepting and processing my personal ACH transactions in non-IAT format:

 

"After Sept 6 2019, Bangkok Bank New York branch will not process ACH transactions that do not have the Standard Class Entry (SEC) code IAT (international ACH transaction)."

 

For now, good to know their latest plan is to accept and process transfers until the Friday after the long U.S. Labor Day weekend. 

 

SIT         

 

     

Their lines in the sand keeping shifting....first 1 Apr....then 1 Sep....now 6 Sep for personal transfers.   But their latest shift was a minor one and with it being minor shift I expect it will be their last shift.   It makes sense to to draw the line a week or so after the first of the month since many people get paid the first few days of the month and then immediately do an ACH transfer to Bangkok Bank.   

 

Even in early Apr when I asked face-to-face one the primary IAT goatrope POCs at HQ Bangkok Bank in Bangkok why was Bangkok Bank "NY" still allowing non-IAT transfers through based on Thaivisa posts I was seeing, the POC said simply said the NY branch is probably leaving the door open a "little longer" to let stragglers through.  That is, those ACH transfers that really take a few days to get going/actually be transmitted by the sending bank although the customer may have initiated them a day or two earlier. 

 

Since Bangkok Bank shifted their personal transfer date from 1 Sep to 6 Sep 2019 it wouldn't surprise me if they don't do a similar approx one week shift to the right for govt/private pension payments which has a cutoff of 1 Jan 2020...maybe they will shift it to around 6 Jan 2020 to also let straggler payments through.  Only time will tell....maybe President Obama is consulting with Bangkok Bank on how to draw lines in the sand.

 

 

[Pib]

33 minutes ago, soisanuk said:

It appears this option was recently added - probably because they were contacted by many of us, including me, after their early July 2019 transfers to Bangkok Bank were sent to Kasikorn Bank first, then transferred to their accounts as a SMART (domestic) transfer.  I sent two transfers this month, the first using the "living expense" option and the second using the "long stay in Thailand" option.  Both were sent direct to my Bangkok Bank account and coded FTT -- since I had previously notified TW to send my transfers direct rather than through partner bank (which they said they would do, but not guarantee will always happen), that could be the reason the 2nd deposit was sent direct rather than choosing the "long stay in Thailand" reason.  BUT, because they were inundated with contacts by expats from Thailand re the need for their deposits to go direct and show up as an Int'l transfer, it stands to reason the addition of the "long stay" option would be a way automate their system to send the transfer direct (provided the account is in one of their partner banks of course).

I saw a post just the other day were a person selecting that "long stay in Thailand" option when sending to his Bangkok  Bank acct that he still ended up with a SMT payment code.  Like Transferwise has repeatedly said they still can't guarantee each payment will get the FTT coding people are looking for/needing even when a person selects the "long stay in Thailand" reason.

[JDGRUEN]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

I saw a post just the other day were a person selecting that "long stay in Thailand" option when sending to his Bangkok  Bank acct that he still ended up with a SMT payment code.  Like Transferwise has repeatedly said they still can't guarantee each payment will get the FTT coding people are looking for/needing even when a person selects the "long stay in Thailand" reason.

To date the experience with the TW User's FB Group I created (230 members now) there has been quite a bit of testing of the Reason Options "Funds for Long term stay in Thailand" versus "General Expenses".  With 20 tests there has been 19 showing the choice of "Funds for Long term ..." resulted in a International Transfer entry in the Thai Bank online account registry which translates into FTT in the bank book. The one that did not, I am not sure the person did the option choosing correctly. 

With my own personal testing I found I could turn the result into International Transfer like turning on and off a light switch by alternating between the two choices stated above.. 

Of course my group still needs up to a hundred test results before anything can be stated with surety. But I believe the evidence so far is strong. But be advised this may work only for B. B. and the two other TW Thai banking partners. It is not easy to get volunteers to report systematically. 

Also I have been in correspondence with the TW Asian, Regional product head in Singapore. So far she agrees to send my group a letter on TW letterhead stating to date the TW transfers into Thailand banks are International in nature. She adds that the reason for this that TW provides external funds for Thai banks to make the tranfers/exchanges. And... My reasoning is that the TW transfer transaction is initiated over the Internet - interacts with a computer server in a country foreign to Thailand... Plus the transfer is originated with funds held in the individual Expats private bank account or a pension benefit fund in the home country. Bottomline - no funds transfer to Thailand would ever take place without TW extracting the supporting funds from the TW customer or from the customer's pension fund, etc. 

[Langsuan Man]

First Bangkok Bank EFTS transfer failure, immediately, submitted on 20 Aug, rejected same day 

 

[Pib]

Durn...the Bangkok Bank line in the sand must have shifted "again" for personal transfers. First 1 Apr...then 1 Sep...then 6 Sep based on their official annoucements and email replies...now based on your reject it's mid Aug. Well, they did say earlier they would "try" to continue till 1 Sep for personal transfers.

Guess your reject confirms USAA ACH transfers are not in IAT format like I've seen a few posters over the last year say they were in IAT format.

Expect we are going to start seeing more transfer rejections as people find out their US bank/CU/financial institution does not "send" in IAT format but can "receive" IAT format no problem.

And I'm sure there will still be some who completely missed the memos over the last year and a half regarding non-IAT transfers.

[mania]

3 hours ago, Pib said:

Guess your reject confirms USAA ACH transfers are not in IAT format like I've seen a few posters over the last year say they were in IAT format.

Sorry if this has been previously asked but.......Is there a way to know which format a Bank transfers in?

 

I am curious about Capital One Bank

 

I did a transfer a couple weeks ago & of course went fine but am about to send another & wondered

[Pib]

2 hours ago, mania said:

Sorry if this has been previously asked but.......Is there a way to know which format a Bank transfers in?

 

I am curious about Capital One Bank

 

I did a transfer a couple weeks ago & of course went fine but am about to send another & wondered

 

 

[mania]

4 minutes ago, Pib said:

 

 

Thanks & yes that would be the thing to do....call/email bank

 

I was just curious if anyone had been refused by Cap 1 yet

Since this transfer is half way done (initial trans from my Credit Union to Cap 1)I will just let it play out

If it get refused no problem. We just usually wire money ahead of our 2-3month stay in Thailand

 

But if refused no problem was just curious & will post results in next few days of this attempt in case anyone else uses Capital One Bank > Bangkok Bank NY

[Pib]

On 4 Aug shoprowhouse13 reported his transfers were rejected but he still needed to talk to his bank more about it...he said he was going to call his bank for more details.  However, in my opinion some of the info he gave regarding his rejects didn't necessary directly point to a non-IAT.  Then other people came online saying their transfer were still getting through so a person would tend to think shoprowhouse13's transfer reject might have been for another reason.

 

Langsuan Man's 21 Aug post (a few posts up) showing the transfer return to USAA could also be for another reason.  But if he was to contact USAA and ask if there was a specific rejection code like one one of the ACH R-series rejection codes given in my 4 Aug post talking rejection due to non-IAT format like the R85 rejection code then that would clearly identify the specific reason for the rejection.  And of course Bangkok Bank bank to identify the specific reason for rejection.'s

 

Maybe Bangkok Bank New York latest line in the sand of early Sep (either 1 or 6 Sep) for personal transfer is still planned....that would be when they could easily spot, reject any non-IAT transfer by having their transfer computers simply look for the Standard Entry Class (SEC) code of "IAT" is the transfer message.  No IAT code then automatic rejection....wouldn't even require human review....let the computers do all the work. 

 

Maybe until then Bangkok Bank New York is picking and choosing via manual review some non-IAT transfers to reject to rekindle social media crossfeed on the nearing line in the sand....a way of repeating they really are serious about rejecting non-IAT transfers in the very near term.  Time will tell.

 

[mania]

I did have a transfer on August 7th go thru no problems.

As I said next one is in process so should be going soon too.

 

I also just sent BKB a message thru my account asking if the Aug 7th trans was in IAT or ACH format...will see if they respond

I am in the USA now & due to return to Thailand first week of October

 

In any case will report results of this latest trans & yes it was Langsuan Man's 21 Aug post that got me wondering if my second trans would also

get rejected

[Langsuan Man]

28 minutes ago, Pib said:

On 4 Aug shoprowhouse13 reported his transfers were rejected but he still needed to talk to his bank more about it...he said he was going to call his bank for more details.  However, in my opinion some of the info he gave regarding his rejects didn't necessary directly point to a non-IAT.  Then other people came online saying their transfer were still getting through so a person would tend to think shoprowhouse13's transfer reject might have been for another reason.

 

Langsuan Man's 21 Aug post (a few posts up) showing the transfer return to USAA could also be for another reason.  But if he was to contact USAA and ask if there was a specific rejection code like one one of the ACH R-series rejection codes given in my 4 Aug post talking rejection due to non-IAT format like the R85 rejection code then that would clearly identify the specific reason for the rejection.  And of course Bangkok Bank bank to identify the specific reason for rejection.'s

 

Maybe Bangkok Bank New York latest line in the sand of early Sep (either 1 or 6 Sep) for personal transfer is still planned....that would be when they could easily spot, reject any non-IAT transfer by having their transfer computers simply look for the Standard Entry Class (SEC) code of "IAT" is the transfer message.  No IAT code then automatic rejection....wouldn't even require human review....let the computers do all the work. 

 

Maybe until then Bangkok Bank New York is picking and choosing via manual review some non-IAT transfers to reject to rekindle social media crossfeed on the nearing line in the sand....a way of repeating they really are serious about rejecting non-IAT transfers in the very near term.  Time will tell.

 

I am in the US, thus the time and date differences 

 

I did not get a notice but noted it on my online statement when I was checking something else before leaving the house but posted the screen shot since no one else had reported  a rejection yet, so this was news

 

My opinion is that this is at least USAA's line in the sand.  And there is no reason to believe after hundreds of EFTS to and from USAA over the years that this first bounce is not the new rules kicking in and is a technical or clerical  error  

 

I hope to be proved wrong but my bet is that using my Fidelity International Wire option is going to be my future.   Definitely tomorrow,  since I need to get money to BB for the car payment   

[Pib]

2 hours ago, Langsuan Man said:

My opinion is that this is at least USAA's line in the sand.  And there is no reason to believe after hundreds of EFTS to and from USAA over the years that this first bounce is not the new rules kicking in and is a technical or clerical  error.  

 

USAA would not have any line in the sand.  They have no clue that Bangkok Bank New York is really relaying an ACH domestic transfer on to Thailand.  USAA just knows you have an authorized ACH transfer link setup for Bangkok Bank New York and therefore they will send to Bangkok Bank New York.

 

The rejection surely came from Bangkok Bank New York for whatever reason...probably because of not being in IAT format. 

 

Whether Bangkok Bank New York is only doing random checks of transfers to check for IAT format or letting their computers automatically review every transfer I couldn't say.   I just know letting their computers automatically check each and every ACH transfer would be super easy as all they need to do is to look in the Standard Entry Class data field of each transfer for the "IAT" code which means it's being sent in ACH IAT format versus ACH domestic format.  An ACH domestic format transfer would probably use SEC code of PPD and also not have the other data fields included required for an ACH IAT transfer.

 

Hopefully more folks will report if their ACH transfers to Bangkok Bank initiated over the last few days are still getting through or not.

 

 

 

[JohnOFphon]

4 hours ago, mania said:

I did have a transfer on August 7th go thru no problems.

As I said next one is in process so should be going soon too.

 

I also just sent BKB a message thru my account asking if the Aug 7th trans was in IAT or ACH format...will see if they respond

I am in the USA now & due to return to Thailand first week of October

 

In any case will report results of this latest trans & yes it was Langsuan Man's 21 Aug post that got me wondering if my second trans would also

get rejected

Just curious..but, why not just carry cash?  ..you can exchange at your leisure...

[mania]

13 hours ago, JohnOFphon said:

Just curious..but, why not just carry cash?  ..you can exchange at your leisure...

We do both send some ahead & carry some

 

We also lived many years in Thailand so like to keep our bank accounts active

[asiaexpat]

18 hours ago, Pib said:

USAA would not have any line in the sand.  They have no clue that Bangkok Bank New York is really relaying an ACH domestic transfer on to Thailand.  USAA just knows you have an authorized ACH transfer link setup for Bangkok Bank New York and therefore they will send to Bangkok Bank New York.

 

The rejection surely came from Bangkok Bank New York for whatever reason...probably because of not being in IAT format. 

 

Whether Bangkok Bank New York is only doing random checks of transfers to check for IAT format or letting their computers automatically review every transfer I couldn't say.   I just know letting their computers automatically check each and every ACH transfer would be super easy as all they need to do is to look in the Standard Entry Class data field of each transfer for the "IAT" code which means it's being sent in ACH IAT format versus ACH domestic format.  An ACH domestic format transfer would probably use SEC code of PPD and also not have the other data fields included required for an ACH IAT transfer.

 

Hopefully more folks will report if their ACH transfers to Bangkok Bank initiated over the last few days are still getting through or not.

 

 

 

Tried last week and funds returned to USAA account. Transfer failed.

[Jingthing]

I hadn't realized it might still be working. So I sent 2 ACH transfers through successfully this month with one last one in process . If it gets rejected I'll post but I assume it will go through. 

 

Is there any chance this won't finally end end of August? 

 

 

[Berkshire]

19 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I hadn't realized it might still be working. So I sent 2 ACH transfers through successfully this month with one last one in process . If it gets rejected I'll post but I assume it will go through. 

 

Is there any chance this won't finally end end of August? 

 

 

I've sent two successful ones this month as well, but they were earlier in the month.  Will try again next week.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Berkshire said:

I've sent two successful ones this month as well, but they were earlier in the month.  Will try again next week.

Is anyone brave enough to try this next month?

OK, it's not really brave, but I don't like to do anything that might red flag my U.S. accounts.

In this case on the first transfer I got one of those suspected fraud emails but it only said if you don't know about the transfer, contact us immediately. So I didn't contact them and no problem. 

[Pib]

37 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Is anyone brave enough to try this next month?

OK, it's not really brave, but I don't like to do anything that might red flag my U.S. accounts.

In this case on the first transfer I got one of those suspected fraud emails but it only said if you don't know about the transfer, contact us immediately. So I didn't contact them and no problem. 

I expect there will be people who will try, have auto monthly transfers setup, or believe their bank does send ACH IAT format.  Hopefully some of these people will report their results.

 

And I sure hope the great majority of folks have lined-up/setup other transfer methods such money transfer services like Transferwise, SWIFT, etc.   

 

Sure going to miss the Bangkok Bank bank-to-bank ACH transfer method.  But Bangkok Bank is only complying with US Treasury/NACHA ACH rules.

[Jingthing]

Yeah I never used it for monthly transfers and I have some other banks that I can transfer using SWIFT. But I really have appreciated the flexibility and low cost of that BB ACH scheme. 

[Berkshire]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Is anyone brave enough to try this next month?

OK, it's not really brave, but I don't like to do anything that might red flag my U.S. accounts.

In this case on the first transfer I got one of those suspected fraud emails but it only said if you don't know about the transfer, contact us immediately. So I didn't contact them and no problem. 

I have my ACH transfers on a monthly basis, so yes, I'll try in September as well.  Hopefully if rejected, the funds will be returned immediately and not lost in the ether.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

I have my ACH transfers on a monthly basis, so yes, I'll try in September as well.  Hopefully if rejected, the funds will be returned immediately and not lost in the ether.

I don't think there is a risk of losing money. My impression is that as long as this scheme has been working, from the U.S. bank's POV they were doing DOMESTIC ACH transfers. Sending to a rather odd bank for a domestic transfer but still domestic. So I've always seen it to some degree as a loophole scheme and I'm not surprised that changes have happened, assuming they ever actually enforce them. 

[Pib]

16 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

I have my ACH transfers on a monthly basis, so yes, I'll try in September as well.  Hopefully if rejected, the funds will be returned immediately and not lost in the ether.

No risk...the funds are immediately rejected back to the sending bank within business day or two.

[JimGant]

Well, USAA is apparently out of the running. Sent an ACH request yesterday, was processed normally on its way to BB NY, and this afternoon got a "funds transfer return" notification. I'm the third to report this re USAA, but certainly they're not the only ones not using IAT format. Anyway, nice while it lasted.

[ThaiBob]

I just initiated a test transfer from my Schwab brokerage account to BB NYC scheduled for Monday. A friend recently did a successful transfer from his Etrade account. Perhaps the brokerage banks are using IAT format? Keep on posting.