Major Change Eff 1 Apr 19 in Bangkok Bank ACH Transfers

Pib · September 2, 2018

35 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I haven't run into that problem as yet with various new account openings. Between Magic Jack, Google Voice, FreedomPop, and a prepaid TM number, one or the other of them has always seemed to work when needed.

But in my experience, the mobile number has only been requested or required as a means of receiving their banking SMS messages or 2nd factor authentication codes for access to online banking. I've yet to run into any institution in the new account opening process that required me to produce a postpaid U.S. mobile number account in order to gain approval for a new account.

Not saying there aren't any doing that. Just saying, I'm probably more active in this area than most here, including multiple in the past year, and I've yet to run into it.

Not having a postpaid mobile number when opening a my CapOne360 bank accounts caused a variety of problems such as my full account access and adding the wife as a joint account owner. My full account account didn't occur via mobile number validation "as they wanted" but by a call to them and they agreed to send an access code via email...I read that access code back to them over the phone. And if the person you wanted to add didn't have a U.S post paid number which could be used to validate the person you wanted to add you had to wait several months for the person's mobile number being used such as Google Voice or Magic Jack to hopefully "season" or a second validation method using their mobile app to be made available...it was up to CapOne if the mobile app validation method was made available for validation purposes. GV or MJ failed for account setup validation purposes.

Took about 4 months to finally make CapOne completely happy with both the wife and I which included various calls to them and online chats. During two of those calls the reps said CapOne had updated it's validation/account full access process and the wife and I were kinda caught in the middle of that changing process. But boy, oh boy, if the wife and I had had U.S. postpaid mobile numbers our accounts setup would have been a piece of cake....instead we endured a multi-month process of account & number seasoning and changing CapOne validation security polices. Of all the various bank accounts I have opened over the years the CapOne bank account opening was the most post-paid US mobile number dependent. But that's water under the bridge now...we are now good to go.

TallGuyJohninBKK · September 2, 2018

5 minutes ago, Pib said:

Not having a postpaid mobile number when opening a my CapOne360 bank accounts caused a variety of problems such as my full account access and adding the wife as a joint account owner. My full account account didn't occur via mobile number validation "as they wanted" but by a call to them and they agreed to send an access code via email...I read that access code back to them over the phone. And if the person you wanted to add didn't have a U.S post paid number which could be used to validate the person you wanted to add you had to wait several months for the person's mobile number being used such as Google Voice or Magic Jack to hopefully "season" or a second validation method using their mobile app to be made available...it was up to CapOne if the mobile app validation method was made available for validation purposes. GV or MJ failed for account setup validation purposes.

Took about 4 months to finally make CapOne completely happy with both the wife and I which included various calls to them and online chats. During two of those calls the reps said CapOne had updated it's validation/account full access process and the wife and I were kinda caught in the middle of that changing process. But boy, oh boy, if the wife and I had had U.S. postpaid mobile numbers our accounts setup would have been a piece of cake....instead we endured a multi-month process of account & number seasoning and changing CapOne validation security polices. Of all the various bank accounts I have opened over the years the CapOne bank account opening was the most post-paid US mobile number dependent. But that's water under the bridge now...we are now good to go.

I think my general point was, being aware of your history with that, that's one bank, and perhaps there are others similar. But I've gone thru multiple apps during the past year and not encountered that from any of the institutions I was dealing with.

However, I will say, despite the value from their no foreign currency fee credit cards, Cap One IME tends to be, in the account opening process, more expat unfriendly than almost any other bank/CU I've ever dealt with. So in that respect, I agree with your experience.

I just don't see it as widespread, or that people here should assume that they'll broadly be unable to open new accounts in the absence of a postpaid mobile phone account. I don't believe that's the case.

Edited September 2, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

JimGant · September 2, 2018

Quote

I think I happen to live in a lucky state, at least for the time being.

If I tried to renew my Virginia driver's license, this would indicate "I had no intention of abandoning Virginia as my residence" (this per Tax Commissioner rulings). Thus, the Virginia tax gestapo would have me on their radar. Not sure how they could force me to pay Virginia income tax while I resided outside Virginia (probably coudn't, as I have no Virginia related income they could garnish). But, I certainly could not return to Virginia without having back taxes assessed (not that returning is even remotely in the cards).

New thought: USAA probably would allow an expat with a prior USAA account to reestablish an account with them. I imagine a significant number of USAA members (and ex members) are expats. And I do know they have no problem with a foreign address for existing members. So, first time applicants with a bonafide military connection just might qualify with a foreign address.

mtls2005 · September 2, 2018

Hard to figure out why any financial institution would not accept PAYG/Pre-paid mobile phone customers?

Pre-paid/Pay-as-you-go is really taking off, maybe 25% this year?

Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile all offer PAYG, as do the ~ 50 or so MVNOs.

And with port ins/outs being so easy, from mobile to voip to fixed line and back and all around. Not sure how a bank can figure out if you're a post-paid/contract customer?

Maybe it's related to one's creditworthiness? Or valid citizenship? Or physical address?

Still seems nutty.

I had a VoiceStream (early GSM provider) mobile number, ported it to AT&T ported it to T-Mobile, then converted to pre-paid. I'm not certain T-Mobile even as an address for me? And I got another T-Mobile SIM, activated it as pre-paid ($3/month) and was never asked for an address.

I'm applying for some new credit cards soon, will report back if there are any mobile phone account issues.

Pib · September 2, 2018

IMO USAA is a very expat friendly bank. Their banking products are nothing to shout about but they truly do bend over backwards to work any banking problem you are have.

JimGant · September 2, 2018

Pib, what was the gold at the end of that arduous application journey with CapOne? Their 1.5% cash back credit card is matched by USAA, of which you're a member -- and who wouldn't put you thru similar application procedures for their credit card. Maybe CD's? I saw their attractive rates awhile back, but one needed to reside in the US to apply (yes, unless I'm recalling wrong, you needed to physically reside in the US to qualify for their CD's).

Pib · September 2, 2018

2 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

Hard to figure out why any financial institution would not accept PAYG/Pre-paid mobile phone customers?

Pre-paid/Pay-as-you-go is really taking off, maybe 25% this year?

Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile all offer PAYG, as do the ~ 50 or so MVNOs.

And with port ins/outs being so easy, from mobile to voip to fixed line and back and all around. Not sure how a bank can figure out if you're a post-paid/contract customer?

Maybe it's related to one's creditworthiness? Or valid citizenship? Or physical address?

Still seems nutty.

I had a VoiceStream (early GSM provider) mobile number, ported it to AT&T ported it to T-Mobile, then converted to pre-paid. I'm not certain T-Mobile even as an address for me? And I got another T-Mobile SIM, activated it as pre-paid ($3/month) and was never asked for an address.

I'm applying for some new credit cards soon, will report back if there are any mobile phone account issues.

Prepaid and postpaid numbers have different underlying account coding....different validation process. Plus, it's very easy to get a pre-paid SIM will little identity confirmation. And when signing up with certain money transfer services if they ask for proof of address they may ask for "Proof of Address" and a Utility bill is an acceptable document "with the exception of a mobile phone bill...postpaid or prepaid" like below from a money transfer service

Quote

What We Need

Proof of Address Document - As proof of your current residential address we can accept any of the below documents. Letters need to be on headed paper, issued within the last 3 months and addressed to yourself.
Bank letter or bank statement

Utilities bill - We cannot accept mobile/cell phone bills or insurance documents

Letter from a government body or agency

Current, complete, signed rental/tenancy agreement

Pib · September 2, 2018

6 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Pib, what was the gold at the end of that arduous application journey with CapOne? Their 1.5% cash back credit card is matched by USAA, of which you're a member -- and who wouldn't put you thru similar application procedures for their credit card. Maybe CD's? I saw their attractive rates awhile back, but one needed to reside in the US to apply (yes, unless I'm recalling wrong, you needed to physically reside in the US to qualify for their CD's).

No...I've had several of the cash back Visa and Mastercard credit cards for years....been using those cards for years in Thailand. However, over the last year I signed up for their 1.5% savings account which gave an immediate $200 interest bonus upfront (paid week one of account opening)...and it's now paying 1.75% with total flexibility in moving money in or out...just the typical max of 6 withdrawals allowed per month by federal law for savings accounts. And their checking account to get their no foreign transaction fee Mastercard debit card which includes the ability to do counter withdrawals up to $5K versus the more typical debit card like the Schwab debit that only allows $1K at a bank counter or ATM.

That daily counter withdrawal of $5K pretty much negates me needing to do any electronic transfers via ACH, SWIFT, money transfer service like Transferwise, etc....just go to a Thai bank branch...withdraw up to $5K in baht equivalent (I did a counter withdrawal for Bt150K (approx $4.5K) at a Krungsri branch just a few weeks ago), had it deposited in my Thai bank account during the same transaction, I get the full Mastercard rate which is plus or minus a hair the Thai bank TT Buying Rate and tad better than the Visa rate.... and all of this with "zero" fees to me unless the Thai bank charges a counter withdrawal fee of Bt200. Just before doing that counter withdrawal I logged onto my Capone account, transferred $5K from high interest paying savings to my checking...did the withdrawal in Thailand...then moved back from checking to savings the approx $500 of the $5K I didn't withdraw....get that $500 back into savings paying 1.75%. I use Krungsri which does not charge a counter withdrawal fee on Mastercard but does charge Bt200 on Visa cards. Some Thai banks charge a counter fee; some don't.

And fortunately, I have an APO address and CapOne gladly accepts an APO address as a U.S. physical address for account opening as does USAA. But as mentioned, CapOne sure relies on a post-paid mobile number to easily and quickly get through the unrestricted account access setup for new accounts. You can get thru the process without a post-paid number but it will just be somewhat of an obstacle course run which may take a while, especially when you want to add your wife as a joint account owner since when you open a bank account with Capone360 you initially do it as a single owner and then have to add the wife later when the wife actually signs up for Capone online access also where the post-paid number thing comes into play again. Funny through the post-paid mobile number thing appeared to be more required for checking acct setup than saving acct setup. Wife now has a Capone Mastercard debit card also but even issue of that got delayed due to acct setup/validation which relied heavy on a post-paid mobile number validation but after a few months the wife was offer a second method to validate using the mobile app...maybe because Capone change their account opening policies again. yeap, water under the bridge now.

skatewash · September 2, 2018

23 minutes ago, Pib said:

Quote

What We Need

Proof of Address Document - As proof of your current residential address we can accept any of the below documents. Letters need to be on headed paper, issued within the last 3 months and addressed to yourself.
Bank letter or bank statement

Utilities bill - We cannot accept mobile/cell phone bills or insurance documents

Letter from a government body or agency

Current, complete, signed rental/tenancy agreement

If one needs a nice official letter from a government agency here's an easy and free way to get a letter from the IRS mailed to your address, simply request a copy by mail of your Prior Year Tax Return:

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/request-a-transcript-or-copy-of-a-prior-year-tax-return

Takes about 10 business days to receive the letter after making the request. In my case it was the easiest way to confirm that my 2017 tax return was received as I had mailed it in (didn't file electronically) and had $0 balance due (so no check to receive from them for any refund and no cashed check of my own for any balance due to confirm that the return had been accepted). It could be done completely online so no phone calls necessary. I had the mail delivered to my commercial mail receiving agency (CMRA) which serves as my US mailing address and offers free scanning per my annual paid subscription.

Pib · September 2, 2018

I won't go into details but one time for a bank account opening I was using a relative's U.S. address since the company only accepted addresses physically within the U.S. but the company then asked for some address validation docs but all the docs they would accept had my APO address...and this company didn't accept APO addresses.

The address thing can get tricky and vary from company to company depending on their KYC customer policies and what address a person uses for income tax filing, different financial accounts you have, etc.

TallGuyJohninBKK · September 2, 2018

16 minutes ago, skatewash said:

If one needs a nice official letter from a government agency here's an easy and free way to get a letter from the IRS mailed to your address, simply request a copy by mail of your Prior Year Tax Return:

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/request-a-transcript-or-copy-of-a-prior-year-tax-return

Takes about 10 business days to receive the letter after making the request. In my case it was the easiest way to confirm that my 2017 tax return was received as I had mailed it in (didn't file electronically) and had $0 balance due (so no check to receive from them for any refund and no cashed check of my own for any balance due to confirm that the return had been accepted). It could be done completely online so no phone calls necessary. I had the mail delivered to my commercial mail receiving agency (CMRA) which serves as my US mailing address and offers free scanning per my annual paid subscription.

I had a case some years back where apparently my SSN was used by some party unknown to me to file a fake tax return, which the IRS disposed of on their own after they had me file a claim with them. But ever since then, each year, they postal mail me a security code to enter on my tax return as a way of confirming it's really me.

So that kind of correspondence would suffice as well, along with my monthly postal-mailed govt. pension payment statement, and tons of bank, CU and other FI monthly statements.

TallGuyJohninBKK · September 2, 2018

2 minutes ago, Pib said:

I won't go into details but one time for a bank account opening I was using a relative's U.S. address since the company only accepted addresses physically within the U.S. but the company then asked for some address validation docs but all the docs they would accept had my APO address...and this company didn't accept APO addresses.

The address thing can get tricky and vary from company to company depending on their KYC customer policies and what address a person uses for income tax filing, different financial accounts you have, etc.

You have a different situation because of your ex-military connection and APO address use.

But in the more general scheme of things, you make a good argument for my general advice for folks to stick with U.S. addresses for their U.S. financial business.

skatewash · September 2, 2018

9 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

But in the more general scheme of things, you make a good argument for my general advice for folks to stick with U.S. addresses for their U.S. financial business.

Good advice, I think. I believe it's the case that it is illegal (per SEC regulations) to sell certain kinds of securities (say US mutual funds) to people who do not reside in the US. Therefore, if my broker became aware that I don't reside in the US it is possible he could put restrictions on my account on purchasing new shares of US mutual funds because by allowing me to do so he would be violating the law. As it is my broker is apparently willing to believe that I reside at my US mailing address (which is a Commercial Mail Receiving Agency). What he doesn't know won't hurt me ?

All my US financial institutions have me in their records as residing at my US mailing address. None have my permanent address in Thailand. I do understand that it would be quite easy for them to determine that it is a CMRA and therefore that I do not live there, but so far I've been able to fly beneath the radar. I hope this continues in the future. Otherwise I will need to rely on the kindness of friends to receive my mail and I would like to avoid imposing that burden upon them for as long as possible.

Due to fraudulent use of a US credit card I recently had to cancel it and request a replacement which I had them mail to my "temporary" address in Thailand where I am currently staying rather than my US address.

Jingthing · September 2, 2018

Not being a US resident you can trade ETFs but not mutual funds that is if your brokerage will do business with you at all of they know you live abroad.

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Jingthing · September 2, 2018

State department federal credit union will open accounts for Americans living abroad. More information about that at the lobbying group website of American Citizens Abroad. But their debit card has a 1 percent foreign exchange fee. Could be worse but could be better. Wires are 30 dollars.

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skatewash · September 2, 2018

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

State department federal credit union will open accounts for Americans living abroad. More information about that at the lobbying group website of American Citizens Abroad. But their debit card has a 1 percent foreign exchange fee. Could be worse but could be better. Wires are 30 dollars.

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If you used your overseas address to open the account what proof, if any, did they require to show that you resided at your overseas address?

I've thought about applying to this credit union for the reason you cite. Last time I investigated it seemed to be possible to join by paying for a one-time-only annual membership to a qualifying organization and there was one such organization charging as little as $5-10 for the privilege.

Jingthing · September 2, 2018

If you used your overseas address to open the account what proof, if any, did they require to show that you resided at your overseas address?

I've thought about applying to this credit union for the reason you cite. Last time I investigated it seemed to be possible to join by paying for a one-time-only annual membership to a qualifying organization and there was one such organization charging as little as $5-10 for the privilege.

Yes all that is true. You can open with passport and utility bill with foreign address., etc.

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skatewash · September 2, 2018

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Yes all that is true. You can open with passport and utility bill with foreign address., etc.

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Thanks, that's good to know. I might give that a try. Of course, they will be subject to the same banking regulations as any other US financial institution but given their customer base they can at least be expected not to aggressively use any excuse to get rid of their overseas customers if they have any discretion in the matter.

Jingthing · September 2, 2018

Thanks, that's good to know. I might give that a try. Of course, they will be subject to the same banking regulations as any other US financial institution but given their customer base they can at least be expected not to aggressively use any excuse to get rid of their overseas customers if they have any discretion in the matter.

For opening without U.S. residence ID they will do a hard credit check if living for abroad for a long time. If you have a valid US driver license and something like a bank statement with matching address. you can initially open with that. Then theoretically you can "move" abroad later.

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Pib · September 2, 2018

2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

You have a different situation because of your ex-military connection and APO address use.

But in the more general scheme of things, you make a good argument for my general advice for folks to stick with U.S. addresses for their U.S. financial business.

No argument there about sticking with a U.S. address as best and as long as you can.

Every person's situation is different in what kind of U.S. address they can keep using and how effective it is in new account openings. Such as relying on a relative/friend's address or a commercial mailing address, having a Thailand and U.S. address because they split their time between the two addresses, being able to renew a U.S. drivers license where requirements vary from state to state, using a physical address for some things and a mailing address for other things, the validation process used by different financial companies for new accounts, etc.

And generally the longer an expat lives overseas the address thing can become even more complicated in new account openings. I won't go into details but over the last half dozen or so years I had one bank account opening that stalled because the credit report they pulled during the application didn't show any spending around my U.S. address over the last two years...but I got thru that with creative talking to make the bank happy and the bank doing a public data Q&A quiz via telephone to prove my identity.

And another time the same thing happened with a credit union account opening because the credit report didn't show any recent spending at/around my U.S. address...and this credit union would only accept some specific docs like property tax or rental agreement to prove I lived at the U.S. address...creative talking didn't help with them...I ended up aborting that account opening. At that time this credit union only accepted addresses within the 50 states. But about a year later this credit union loosened up their Know Your Customer policies and started accepting an APO address and that's what I used on the application...this time my application sailed through no problem. I know you know which CU I'm talking about...this is just for others listening in.

Yeap, opening a new financial account for an expat can sometimes be like a coin toss...heads you can; tails you can't.

Edited September 2, 2018 by Pib

Thailand J · September 2, 2018

It is true everyone's situation is different. Me:

This is my 11th year in Thailand. Citibank has canceled my credit card. Chase has blocked online access to my bank account.

I still have Capital One card, Chase and BOA bank accounts..but I am not worried of losing US credit card and bank accounts anymore. Because I have Vanguard, Fidelity and Schwab accounts with my Thai address and phone number. They met all my investment and money management needs.

Schwab account can be opened with a Thai address. Vanguard and Fidelity must be opened while you have a US address, but after that you can change to one in Thailand. I may open a new account with TD Ameritrade.

In many ways a brokerage account can be used as a bank account. You can use the ABA number and the account number just like a checking account to move money in and out online. You can also request paper checks and ATM cards.

Edited September 2, 2018 by Thailand J

mtls2005 · September 3, 2018

Yes, being able to demonstrate one's physical address is a requirement for a whole host of activities these days, as is documentation of "lawful presence".

And a utility bill qualifies, and a post-paid cellular bill qualifies much as a fixed-line telephone bill would. But that is just one of the dozens of valid documents, and having a pre-paid cellular account does not, in and of itself, disqualify one for successful applications, IME.

My most recent brush with this had this list, with requirements to provide two (2) of the following.

State/federal/municipal/city/town/county agency issued documents:
1st class mail dated within 60 days
Current State-issued professional license with photograph
Medicaid statement dated within 60 days
Current firearms card
Jury duty summons dated within 60 days
Court correspondence dated within 60 days
Property tax for current year
Excise tax for current year

Bills:
Utility bill (electric, telephone, water, sewer, cable, satellite, heating) dated within 60 days
Credit card statement dated within 60 days
Medical/hospital statement dated within 60 days
Cell phone bill dated within 60 days

Lease/Mortgage:
Current lease/mortgage or similar rental contract

Financial-related documents:
Bank statement that contains images of cancelled personal checks dated within 60 days
W-2 wage and tax statement from immediate prior year
Current pension statement (401k, 457, SEP, etc.)
Current retirement statement
Pay stub dated within 60 days
Current SSA statement
Current installment loan contract (car loan)

School-issued documents:
Official school transcript for current year
Official letter from school (proof of enrollment) dated within 60 days
Tuition bill for current year
Certified school record for current year

Insurance-related documents:
Auto insurance policy for current year
Renter's insurance policy for current year
Homeowner's insurance policy for current year

mtls2005 · September 3, 2018