Australian researchers lay bare bloody history of colonial massacres

[lannarebirth]

On 7/28/2018 at 3:10 AM, Bluespunk said:

“And in "Elbow Room" the cast sings the glories of westward expansion in the United States, which involved the murder of native peoples and the violent conquest of half of Mexico. Among the lines in the song is one that intones, "There were plenty of fights / To win land right / But the West was meant to be / It was our Manifest Destiny?" Let it suffice to say that happily belting out a tune in which one merrily praises genocide is always easier for those whose ancestors weren't on the receiving end of the deal.”

Tim Wise, White Like Me: Reflections on Race from a Privileged Son

 

Was Tim descended from Spaniards by any chance?

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, lannarebirth said:

 

Was Tim descended from Spaniards by any chance?

Why does it matter who we are descended from?

 

Much of the hate in this world comes from a notion of who we are descended from. 

 

Or rather who others are not descended from. 

[lannarebirth]

18 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Why does it matter who we are descended from?

 

Much of the hate in this world comes from a notion of who we are descended from. 

 

Or rather who others are not descended from. 

I ask not because of any notion of hate but rather responsibility which is the theme of this topic?

 

How does one decide who is responsible for what?

 

My experience is from America. Conquered by Spaniards, British, French, Russians. Later consolidated and further settled by the newly founded nation of the USA. With the sole exception of the American purchase of Alaska all off my kin settled in America after all of these events.

 

The only line of my family that was on the North American continent prior to the Civil War were some Irish that had arrived maybe 20 years previously. All of fighting age were pressed into service of the Northern Army during the Civil War. What do they or their descendents owe to anyone?

 

Later, during WW1, my grandfather come back from France having been gassed by the Germans. He was never the same and that episde changed the trajectory of our family's future immeasureably. It forced my father to leave school at the age of 10 to become his family's breadwinner. To whom should we send the bill?

Edited July 31, 2018 by lannarebirth

[Nemises]

Given that everyone on the planet originated in Africa, no one has a claim to own Australia. Some just got there before others.

Yep. 100% correct.



https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2011/09/aborigines-the-first-out-of-africa-the-first-in-asia-and-australia/245392/

[Bluespunk]

10 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

I ask not because of any notion of hate but rather responsibility which is the theme of this topic?

 

How does one decide who is responsible for what?

 

My experience is from America. Conquered by Spaniards, British, French, Russians. Later consolidated and further settled by the newly founded nation of the USA. With the sole exception of the American purchase of Alaska all off my kin settled in America after all of these events.

 

The only line of my family that was on the North American continent prior to the Civil War were some Irish that had arrived maybe 20 years previously. All of fighting age were pressed into service of the Northern Army during the Civil War. What do they or their descendents owe to anyone?

 

Later, during WW1 we had a grandfather come back from France having been gassed by the Germans. He was never the same and channged the trajectory of our family's future immeasureably It forced my father to leave school at the age of 10 to become his fanily's breadwinner. To whom should we send the bill?

To colonise and occupy a country already inhabited, to marginalise and commit genocidal crimes upon that population, to take their ancestral lands and destroy their way of life, to celebrate and disguise these crimes in national holidays is as wrong as it gets.

 

I would say evil but that tends to cause offence. 

 

The other crimes against humanity you mention are equally wrong...or evil as I believe. 

Edited July 31, 2018 by Bluespunk
Punctuation and reiteration

[lannarebirth]

2 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

To colonise a country already inhabited, to marginalise and commit genocidal crimes upon that population,  to celebrate and disguise these crimes in national holidays is as wrong as it gets.

 

I would say evil but that tends to cause offence. 

 

The other crimes against humanity you mention are equally wrong...or evil as I believe. 

 

OK, but what's that got to do with ME?

 

BTW, some of the most patriotic Americans I know are black folks and those from indigenous tribes. Go figure.

[Bluespunk]

Just now, lannarebirth said:

 

OK, but what's that got to do with ME?

 

BTW, some of the most patriotic Americans I know are black folks and those from indigenous tribes. Go figure.

I honestly don’t see why I should post in a manner that matters to you. 

 

That said, I am glad to hear you know people who love their country. 

 

That, however, does not excuse the crimes of past or justify celebrating then.

 

In my view, that is... 

[lannarebirth]

4 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

I honestly don’t see why I should post in a manner that matters to you. 

 

That said, I am glad to hear you know people who love their country. 

 

That, however, does not excuse the crimes of past or justify celebrating then.

 

In my view, that is... 

 

I think we can agree on that. Most things are not worth celebrating. Although that cave rescue was pretty cool. Hopefully it will not become a national holiday.

Edited July 31, 2018 by lannarebirth

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Because the atrocities underpin the takeover of the country and the suppression of the indigenous people.

 

And who said you should ‘feel guilty’?

 

Doh!

Tchooptip did.

[thaibeachlovers]

25 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

To colonise and occupy a country already inhabited, to marginalise and commit genocidal crimes upon that population, to take their ancestral lands and destroy their way of life, 

All completely normal human activity till fairly recently in human history.

Perhaps the descendants of the Normans should apologise to the descendants of the Saxons in Britain, but I doubt they will.

[lannarebirth]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

All completely normal human activity till fairly recently in human history.

Perhaps the descendants of the Normans should apologise to the descendants of the Saxons in Britain, but I doubt they will.

3/4ths of my descendants hail from the Northern Italian coast. Strangely their surnames are mostly bastardizations of Scandinavian surnames. Now that Norway is finally flush and not the poorest country in Europe should I be sending them a bill for all the raping and pillaging done by their forebears?

[Bluespunk]

19 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

All completely normal human activity till fairly recently in human history.

Perhaps the descendants of the Normans should apologise to the descendants of the Saxons in Britain, but I doubt they will.

Maybe they should. 

 

I just have no tolerance for the celebration or explaining away  of deliberate genocide. 

Edited July 31, 2018 by Bluespunk

[Nemises]

To colonise and occupy a country already inhabited, to marginalise and commit genocidal crimes upon that population, to take their ancestral lands and destroy their way of life, 

 

Many ancestral lands given back.

 

Their “destroyed” way of life is still available if desired, however THEY CHOOSE instead to live the colonial way of life for some reason. Maybe it’s got something to do with medical care, welfare, employment, education, housing, alcohol, motorised transport, non-fauna food, television, etc etc etc

[Bluespunk]

10 minutes ago, Gregster said:

 

Many ancestral lands given back.

Their “destroyed” way of life is still available if desired, however THEY CHOOSE instead to live the colonial way of way life for some reason. Maybe it’s got something to do with medical care, welfare, employment, education, housing, alcohol, motorised transport, non-fauna food, television, etc etc etc

 

Sure. 

 

The aboriginal people chose to have their country colonised, occupied and land stolen from them. 

 

And it goes without saying they chose to have genocidal atrocities visited upon them. 

 

What a bunch of whinging tossers, eh. 

 

They should get over it already. 

Edited July 31, 2018 by Bluespunk

[Nemises]

Sure. 
 
The aboriginal people chose to have their country colonised, occupied and land stolen from them. 
 
And it goes without saying they chose to have genocidal atrocities visited upon them. 
 
What a bunch of whinging tossers, eh. 
 
They should get over it already. 

Yeah, white man should stop forcing the aboriginals to have welfare and free education, medical care, transport, alcohol, housing etc. It’s just not fair. They should be allowed to head bush again, eat kangaroos, spear each other and die at age 26....Or maybe they ARE allowed to go back but choose not to??? Hmm, must check on that.

[Bluespunk]

19 minutes ago, Gregster said:

 

Yeah, white man should stop forcing the aboriginals to have welfare and free education, medical care, transport, alcohol, housing etc. It’s just not fair. They should be allowed to head bush again, eat kangaroos, spear each other and die at age 26....Or maybe they ARE allowed to go back but choose not to??? Hmm, must check on that.

 

Ah, blaming victims for the consequences of genocidal actions. 

 

How empty and facile are such truths and defences. 

 

“Writing about Aboriginal themes means joining the dots from the colonial policies of the past to the problems faced by First Nations, Métis, and Inuit today. It means acknowledging the wrongs and the pain.”

 

Lynda A. Archer, Tears in the Grass

Edited July 31, 2018 by Bluespunk

[Nemises]

Ah, the deniers of genocide. 
 
How empty and facile are their truths and defences. 

It really sux how current white man cannot invent a time machine and undo the atrocities of their forebears. It’s just not good enough giving the aboriginals a much better life NOW, let’s just dwell on the PAST...that’ll fix everything.

[Bluespunk]

11 minutes ago, Gregster said:

It really sux how current white man cannot invent a time machine and undo the atrocities of their forebears. It’s just not good enough giving the aboriginals a much better life NOW, let’s just dwell on the PAST...that’ll fix everything.

“In order to escape accountability for his crimes, the perpetrator does everything in his power to promote forgetting. If secrecy fails, the perpetrator attacks the credibility of his victim. If he cannot silence her absolutely, he tries to make sure no one listens.”

 

Judith Lewis Herman, Trauma and Recovery: The Aftermath of Violence - From Domestic Abuse to Political Terror

[car720]

18 hours ago, The Deerhunter said:

Who?  Dexter Dutton?  As in Life with Dexter?   (Steam Radio from the late 50's eary 60's.)  Apart from that as a guess  if it not wha you mean, then it is a bit to subtle for me.

Oh God.  Life with Dexter.  The next thing is you are going to tell me that you listened to Randy Stone as well.

[The Deerhunter]

1 hour ago, car720 said:

Oh God.  Life with Dexter.  The next thing is you are going to tell me that you listened to Randy Stone as well.

Never heard of him.   Which Dutton did you mean.  Not a common name.

[sirineou]

18 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

Apparently you don't have any children in an American college or university at present.

 Actually my daughter is  attending University  at Florida State in Tallahassee.The rest of your post I cant make heads or tails off. I read it three times trying to understand  your point, perhaps it is me,  because I am familiar with you and your posts and I never had that problem before.

have you being drinking? LOL

Apparently it must make sense to someone else because you got a like for it.

18 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

Imagine if your half caste child returned from university after attending 14 years of international schools in Thailand to tell you about what your "white privelege" has wrought

I don't understand  this sentence , what does" my  white privilege" has to do with my kid attending university?

 

18 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

Never mind they are the most priveleged children on the planet or that I grew up in the only white family in the projects or that I sold my blood plasma to buy textbooks,

????

18 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

that is what they are being taught

what are they being taught ? that they are the most privileged children in the world? or that you grew up the in only white  family in the projects, or or that you sold plasma for books?

18 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

Not in any specific class either,

?????

18 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

but I'm told almost every professor takes 10-15 minutes of every class period to impart their political opinions to the class (all tenured of course).

who told you that?

18 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

These are in 2 of the top 20 universities in the world. It is never, ever going to end.

Which are the 3 of the top 20 universities in the world ?????

 

And finally, what had any of the above to do about Australia examining it's history? or that even though some might use history for political gain that there still benefits in examining history.

I am very confused. 

[overherebc]

On 7/28/2018 at 8:18 PM, ELVIS123456 said:

I have a unicorn - hardly used - wanna buy it?  Transfer $100K to my bank and it is yours.

 

Is this like on e-bay? Can we bid?

[lannarebirth]

4 hours ago, sirineou said:

 

Quote

 

Actually my daughter is  attending University  at Florida State in Tallahassee.The rest of your post I cant make heads or tails off. I read it three times trying to understand  your point, perhaps it is me,  because I am familiar with you and your posts and I never had that problem before.

have you being drinking? LOL

 

I'm sorry that you couldn't understand my post. Frankly, having read your posts previously I'd have credited you with greater comprehension skills, if not pespicacity.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

22 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

I ask not because of any notion of hate but rather responsibility which is the theme of this topic?

 

How does one decide who is responsible for what?

 

My experience is from America. Conquered by Spaniards, British, French, Russians. Later consolidated and further settled by the newly founded nation of the USA. With the sole exception of the American purchase of Alaska all off my kin settled in America after all of these events.

 

The only line of my family that was on the North American continent prior to the Civil War were some Irish that had arrived maybe 20 years previously. All of fighting age were pressed into service of the Northern Army during the Civil War. What do they or their descendents owe to anyone?

 

Later, during WW1, my grandfather come back from France having been gassed by the Germans. He was never the same and that episde changed the trajectory of our family's future immeasureably. It forced my father to leave school at the age of 10 to become his family's breadwinner. To whom should we send the bill?

I feel your pain and suffering, it must be awful for you.

[car720]

19 hours ago, The Deerhunter said:

Never heard of him.   Which Dutton did you mean.  Not a common name.

Peter Dutton.

[The Deerhunter]

2 hours ago, car720 said:

Peter Dutton.

Never heard of him till I looked it up now.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎7‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 7:53 PM, car720 said:

Oh God.  Life with Dexter.  The next thing is you are going to tell me that you listened to Randy Stone as well.

Loved Life with Dexter. The family all sat around the kitchen table and enjoyed it together.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎7‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 7:07 PM, Bluespunk said:

Ah, blaming victims for the consequences of genocidal actions. 

 

How empty and facile are such truths and defences. 

 

“Writing about Aboriginal themes means joining the dots from the colonial policies of the past to the problems faced by First Nations, Métis, and Inuit today. It means acknowledging the wrongs and the pain.”

 

Lynda A. Archer, Tears in the Grass

Start a political party with the policy of handing back all of Australia to the aborigines, and sending all the invaders back whence they came and see how many support it.

I doubt the average citizen feels any responsibility at all. After all, none of them were alive then.

[Bluespunk]

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Start a political party with the policy of handing back all of Australia to the aborigines, and sending all the invaders back whence they came and see how many support it.

I doubt the average citizen feels any responsibility at all. After all, none of them were alive then.

Still doesn’t justify genocidal behaviour and colonialism. 

 

Not that I have called for any of the things you mention though. 

 

However, responsibility cannot be denied considering the scale of the crime. 

Edited August 1, 2018 by Bluespunk

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Still doesn’t justify genocidal behaviour and colonialism. 

 

Not that I have called for any of the things you mention though. 

 

However, responsibility cannot be denied considering the scale of the crime. 

Of course it doesn't justify anything.

However, for most of mankind's existence, life has been brutish, horrible and short. Once we have overpopulated ourselves to the extent with which we are trying, life may again become horrible and short. Modern man can not compare what happened hundreds of years ago to what happens now, or will happen in the future. Life without genocide and massacres has only existed for a blink in the existence of humanity.