Red stamp from Penang denied in Vientiane

[Kaalle]

This info might be useful..

 

Have three setv from Penang last one red stamped and just got turned down in Vientiane they just said need new passport. Nothing to do.

[ubonjoe]

That is no surprising at all. At least they told you what you need to do to get more visas at nearby locations.

[sananeamk0715]

Rite now I have Non-B visa but before I had tourist visa in my passport may be 8-9 times n I'm Turkish passport holder(We all know how Thai government see Muslim countries n how they r strict at immigration) anyway. As I remember I had 3 times from Penang, 5 times from Vientiane, 1 times from Savannakhet. N I never get any red stamp til now. But my last tourist visa it was from Savannakhet(Which one is can't give red stamp). Cause I was pretty sure if I go again Penang or Vientiane or any other consulate they'll give red stamp).

 

What I mean is; Why people always going to Penang etc. even kinda consulates very strict or problems. I feel like they wanna see more attractions etc. while apply visa. Just make sure ur visa ok then again u can go wherever u want. Don't get it really.

[elviajero]

Did they take the application and money, or just decline to take the application?

[BritTim]

Get a new passport, or go to Savannakhet.

[Kaalle]

9 hours ago, elviajero said:

Did they take the application and money, or just decline to take the application?

Didnt take the application.

 

I was under the false impression the only thing you had to do was change embassy/consulate. Should have read up more on the red stamp. And the visa company shouldnt have taken my money knowing about this.

Lesson learned. Tomorrow i have to "pay" my way in to thailand on my 3d visa excempt and then its off to Bkk for a new passport. 

[elviajero]

4 hours ago, Kaalle said:

Didnt take the application.

 

I was under the false impression the only thing you had to do was change embassy/consulate. Should have read up more on the red stamp. And the visa company shouldnt have taken my money knowing about this.

Lesson learned. Tomorrow i have to "pay" my way in to thailand on my 3d visa excempt and then its off to Bkk for a new passport. 

Well at least they didn't charge you for the privilege of turning you down!

 

Until now Vientiane have only seemed bothered about the number of visas they issue. Your report is very useful for others. I can see these stamps becoming more of an issue.

[tropo]

4 hours ago, Kaalle said:

Didnt take the application.

 

I was under the false impression the only thing you had to do was change embassy/consulate. Should have read up more on the red stamp. And the visa company shouldnt have taken my money knowing about this.

Lesson learned. Tomorrow i have to "pay" my way in to thailand on my 3d visa excempt and then its off to Bkk for a new passport. 

The Visa companies never know for sure if you'll succeed or not. You won't get red stamps until you do, and it's unpredictable.

[elviajero]

1 minute ago, tropo said:

The Visa companies never know for sure if you'll succeed or not. You won't get red stamps until you do, and it's unpredictable.

To be fair the visa companies should know if Vientiane are denying visas to those that already have 'red stamps' from other consulates. Unless this is the first time it's happened.

[BritTim]

Vientiane only gives a red stamp based on visas they issue themselves. However, as you have discovered, they react to red stamps from anywhere, not just their own.

 

The only totally reliable consulate for further tourist visas once you have a red stamp is Savannakhet. In many countries, your home country consulates will likely also be fine. Other consulates in the region are very risky.

Edited July 31, 2018 by BritTim

[elviajero]

2 minutes ago, BritTim said:

The only totally reliable consulate for further tourist visas once you have a red stamp is Savannakhet.

I'm not sure that can be stated with such assurance.

[tropo]

11 minutes ago, elviajero said:

To be fair the visa companies should know if Vientiane are denying visas to those that already have 'red stamps' from other consulates. Unless this is the first time it's happened.

What does the OP mean by "visa companies"? Were they charged for a visa run from Thailand to Vientiane, all included?

 

I don't think anyone can have 100% confidence in any consulate these days... but of course, you never know until you try. Perpetual tourist visa runners probably all know this by now. I used to do the tourist visa shuffle many years ago with my wife. We had always been successful until one time I got a visa in Vientiane and she was refused. As I said, you're successful until you're not. The place everyone thought was safe can change overnight, as did Penang and Vientiane. Prior to 2008 Penang was a veritable visa factory - it was amazing... and then it changed.

[elviajero]

4 minutes ago, tropo said:

What does the OP mean by "visa companies"? Were they charged for a visa run from Thailand to Vientiane, all included?

I assume he meant the visa run company that took him to Vientiane charged him.

 

5 minutes ago, tropo said:

I don't think anyone can have 100% confidence in any consulate these days... but of course, you never know until you try. Perpetual tourist visa runners probably all know this by now. I used to do the tourist visa shuffle many years ago with my wife. We had always been successful until one time I got a visa in Vientiane and she was refused. As I said, you're successful until you're not. The place everyone thought was safe can change overnight, as did Penang and Vientiane. Prior to 2008 Penang was a veritable visa factory - it was amazing... and then it changed.

Agreed. It was easy prior to 2008, and the only thing we know for sure now is that we know nothing for sure anymore.

[tropo]

Just now, elviajero said:

10 minutes ago, tropo said:

What does the OP mean by "visa companies"? Were they charged for a visa run from Thailand to Vientiane, all included?

 

I assume he meant the visa run company that took him to Vientiane charged him.

I had a visa agent in Vientiane that did it all for me a few times. I met him over the border and he took care of it all for me - and he dropped off the passport with visa the next day. I thought perhaps this could be what he was referring to. Apart from that, I made all the trips myself.

[gk10002000]

How close together were your three SETVs in Penang?  back to back?  did you have the extra 30 day extension on any or all of them?  Did you have SETVs or visa exempts at other times near to those visas? 

[thecyclist]

8 hours ago, elviajero said:

Well at least they didn't charge you for the privilege of turning you down!

 

Until now Vientiane have only seemed bothered about the number of visas they issue. Your report is very useful for others. I can see these stamps becoming more of an issue.

That is not true, they have been counting visas from other consulates, at least occasionally (nothing that Thais do is consistent) for quite some time. On a day they decide, for whatever reason, to be a stricter, they count all regional stamps and if you had already 3 or more you get the red treatment. 

[KiChakayan]

8 hours ago, BritTim said:

The only totally reliable consulate for further tourist visas once you have a red stamp is Savannakhet. In many countries, your home country consulates will likely also be fine. Other consulates in the region are very risky.

What amuses me is that they rely on a red stamp. Getting the consulates of all neighbouring countries connected to the mouvements database would be a piece of cake. 

[Elkski]

Why a new passport?  Is it full?   A new passport with only 3 entries? Are things checked electronically?  Why would new passport work then?  Can someone clarify this case for me.  Just three back to back visas and done?

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, KiChakayan said:

What amuses me is that they rely on a red stamp. Getting the consulates of all neighbouring countries connected to the mouvements database would be a piece of cake. 

There would be considerable costs involved. In particular, there would be a lot of data entry and procedures would need to be developed to deal with cases where data was incorrectly entered. This can be a bigger cost than the initial cost of servers, local computers, networks (sometimes from locations that still have unreliable Internet), networking equipment, and software for the basic functionality. Recognize that some small honorary consulates may not even have a computer,  and everyone (in the smallest or largest consulates) would need training in use of the system. IT support for the smaller consulates when they could not issue visas at times the system were unavailable would be a headache.

 

Ideally, there would be some data sharing between consulates and immigration, but turf wars between ministries with arguments about ownership will get in the way. I expect such a system will come eventually, but it is not as trivial as you seem to believe.

[KiChakayan]

30 minutes ago, BritTim said:

There would be considerable costs involved. In particular, there would be a lot of data entry and procedures would need to be developed to deal with cases where data was incorrectly entered. This can be a bigger cost than the initial cost of servers, local computers, networks (sometimes from locations that still have unreliable Internet), networking equipment, and software for the basic functionality. Recognize that some small honorary consulates may not even have a computer,  and everyone (in the smallest or largest consulates) would need training in use of the system. IT support for the smaller consulates when they could not issue visas at times the system were unavailable would be a headache.

 

Ideally, there would be some data sharing between consulates and immigration, but turf wars between ministries with arguments about ownership will get in the way. I expect such a system will come eventually, but it is not as trivial as you seem to believe.

I don't know if you have much IT experience, but if you have you are an IT dinosaur. As far as I am concerned, I was only paid 300000 USD a year before I retired from managing IT projects Internationally.This one would be an absolute no brainer...

 

Edited August 1, 2018 by KiChakayan

[RickG16]

15 hours ago, Kaalle said:

Didnt take the application.

 

I was under the false impression the only thing you had to do was change embassy/consulate. Should have read up more on the red stamp. And the visa company shouldnt have taken my money knowing about this.

Lesson learned. Tomorrow i have to "pay" my way in to thailand on my 3d visa excempt and then its off to Bkk for a new passport. 

Which visa company in penang was it pls?

[Kaalle]

Read what i write i wasn't denied in Penang i was denied in Vientiane
The company is the one with multiple vans leaving from on nut. The company used for Penang trip has no bearing on red stamp or not, i presume.


I have three back 2 back from Penang and three excempts in passport, 2 land 1 air.

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[RickG16]

7 minutes ago, Kaalle said:

Read what i write i wasn't denied in Penang i was denied in Vientiane
The company is the one with multiple vans leaving from on nut. The company used for Penang trip has no bearing on red stamp or not, i presume.


I have three back 2 back from Penang and three excempts in passport, 2 land 1 air.

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Ok fair enough....  Maybe stick with penang then is the lesson..... 

[Kaalle]

Ok fair enough....  Maybe stick with penang then is the lesson..... 

I think stick with multiple places and max two setv from each is a good idea no? I feel like the tourist visa train is coming to a stop soon. Would be sad.

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[BritTim]

5 hours ago, KiChakayan said:

I don't know if you have much IT experience, but if you have you are an IT dinosaur. As far as I am concerned, I was only paid 300000 USD a year before I retired from managing IT projects Internationally.This one would be an absolute no brainer...

The larger embassies in places like the US and Europe would be easy (but, as I posted before, expensive in terms of data entry that does not currently occur). The smaller honorary consulates in remote locations with no staff employed by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, would be troublesome. I would use some sort of thin client solution (such as VMware View) but security would still be a major concern. You would not be able to lock down computers you do not own, and must assume periodic malware issues, possibly including keylogger attacks and stolen credentials. Remote access is often insufficient to fix the problems, even if they are rapidly detected. Possibly, limited read only access from such small consulates might be possible, with new visa details emailed to the embassy for data entry.

 

I believe you are highly experienced, but I wonder how much you have dealt with projects involving a mix of big offices and remote access from small associates not actually part of your organization. I have found small remote offices with no one having any computer expertise very annoying to deal with.

 

I have not worked with diplomatic missions, so they may be exempt, but I would also worry about how data protection legislation in different countries might impose additional burdens on the development of this kind of system.

[JackThompson]

On 7/31/2018 at 11:10 PM, Kaalle said:

I was under the false impression the only thing you had to do was change embassy/consulate. Should have read up more on the red stamp.

Vientiane "honors" red-stamps from any consulate.  I reported this over a year ago - my "red stamp" was from Phnom Penh, and I was denied at Vientiane.  This, after no problems at Savannakhet with the same Phnom Penh "red stamp" present.  Fortunately, I had no visa-exempts for years (by land or otherwise), so no problem using one to enter at the Friendship Bridge into Nong Khai. 

 

If you already have 2 land-border visa-exempts in 2018, you could go down to Savannakhet and get a Tourist Visa there, with the proper documentation (bank-statement, flight-out, etc).

[Kaalle]

9 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Vientiane "honors" red-stamps from any consulate.  I reported this over a year ago - my "red stamp" was from Phnom Penh, and I was denied at Vientiane.  This, after no problems at Savannakhet with the same Phnom Penh "red stamp" present.  Fortunately, I had no visa-exempts for years (by land or otherwise), so no problem using one to enter at the Friendship Bridge into Nong Khai. 

 

If you already have 2 land-border visa-exempts in 2018, you could go down to Savannakhet and get a Tourist Visa there, with the proper documentation (bank-statement, flight-out, etc).

Ah ok! Good too know Savannakhet is an option if red stamp in passport. 

[JackThompson]

8 minutes ago, Kaalle said:

Ah ok! Good too know Savannakhet is an option if red stamp in passport. 

No guarantees - but so far, no reports of denials.  Be sure to check what documents they want to see, as they are more strict than Vientiane, in this respect. 

 

The last time I went (over a year ago) I needed to show a Hotel-Booking or Condo Lease, a Bank Statement with a balance over 20K Baht equivalence (can be a foreign bank), a Flight out of Thailand within 90-days (some advise 60-days, since 90 would include an extension, but I was OK with 90 when I did it).

[Kaalle]

5 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

No guarantees - but so far, no reports of denials.  Be sure to check what documents they want to see, as they are more strict than Vientiane, in this respect. 

 

The last time I went (over a year ago) I needed to show a Hotel-Booking or Condo Lease, a Bank Statement with a balance over 20K Baht equivalence (can be a foreign bank), a Flight out of Thailand within 90-days (some advise 60-days, since 90 would include an extension, but I was OK with 90 when I did it).

Guarantees  dont exist in Thailand, im well aware : )

Bank statement is no problem, and I always carry copy of rental agreement. 

 

[Kaalle]

Also if you have used up your exempts dont worry too much about the border crossing if you are denied a visa. There are helpful agents and immigration staff that love thousand baht notes for some really strange reason. Cant wrap my head around it...

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