Less Western Expats arriving than ever before and a significant fall in working Western expats now in Thailand

[KhunFred]

Heavens!!!! Wonder WHY???? Could it be the "farang mai dee" mentality which persists here? The idea that farangs are "taking" something which Thais cannot provide, is deeply ingrained in the Thai psyche. "Good God, mate, even though none of us can speak English that can be understood, these farangs are depriving us of a living by teaching Thais the language that they grew up using."

[Snow Leopard]

It’s not only Thailand. Expats are disappearing everywhere. I have worked in Dubai for 15 years. It used to be for every 2 people leaving 8 came in. Now it’s the opposite.

Cheaper labour equals less disposable income equals less spent in the local economy.

Dubai is going down hill fast and they are to stupid to realize what is going on.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Canuckabroad]

1 minute ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

But as a 30ish do you feel content and comfortable working in VietNam?

Are you given room for taking responsibility/making decisions and evolving yourself workwise?

 

Me;

when stopping working I sat down and did a lot of thinking;

where to spend the next 10 or so years

in home country (I have a fantastic seaside home)

in LoS

somewhere else?

 

number 1) I concluded to go abroad

then where?

after some further consideration narrowed it down to LoS and PI

ended up with LoS, mostly due to being lazy I think

 

before I had been travelling to LoS 3-5 times a year for 30 years (business)

I know Bangkok very well, could speak some Thai (ok in taxi, restaurant, hotel etc)

guess that is why I landed on LoS

 

guess I should have picked PI instead,

but still; am quite comfortable here (knew what I was going to)

 

Reasonably comfortable.  It's not unusual to work remotely in my industry, and my company has departments spread around North America.  I've even been promoted since I left the homeland.  I think that's starting to slowly become more common, if the current trends continue.  But I also realize I'm lucky, because it's not common yet.

 

I've visited Philippines, and I expect to take more vacations there.  I've only been in Manila and another secluded island, so I can't speak for the country.  But the crime of Manila is too much for me to ever settle there.  The island I visited had third-rate Internet.  On my next trip there I'll try somewhere else.

[Nyezhov]

I'm a me me guy...

 

It's a formula.

 

You take the number of expats, divide by the number of Falang oriented places, further divide by the number of Falang loving girls, use my charm as a constant, subtract the loss of expats, add in Chinese your groups and divide by 14.5, and you will see that on a wed night in low season, I will have Crazy House all to myself.

 

Take care millennials. Have a good time in wherever you go. Hi hansum man you retire stay with me,young man always run away....

[Oziex1]

If they did not return home, where did they go.  Any informed opinion on a more suitable SE Asian country to settle In? 

[melvinmelvin]

7 minutes ago, Canuckabroad said:

Reasonably comfortable.  It's not unusual to work remotely in my industry, and my company has departments spread around North America.  I've even been promoted since I left the homeland.  I think that's starting to slowly become more common, if the current trends continue.  But I also realize I'm lucky, because it's not common yet.

 

I've visited Philippines, and I expect to take more vacations there.  I've only been in Manila and another secluded island, so I can't speak for the country.  But the crime of Manila is too much for me to ever settle there.  The island I visited had third-rate Internet.  On my next trip there I'll try somewhere else.

 

Fair enough,

but PI has somth which is different from LoS and VietNam

 

the vast majority of the PI population is Christian,

not that I am religious by any means but it means

that some core values (moral/integrity/ethics) is shared,

 

reasonably common ideas about what is right/wrong and good/bad

 

I find this noticeable unless you live in a farang ghetto

 

[rumak]

42 minutes ago, tomas557 said:

Pretty simple, because they have been living the dream for many years, 1 month millionaires at the time.

 

Once they are settled they will learn the real Thai life/attitude.

AND........where would you choose to retire ?   

[melvinmelvin]

6 minutes ago, Oziex1 said:

If they did not return home, where did they go.  Any informed opinion on a more suitable SE Asian country to settle In? 

 

Hong Kong is an interesting place.

 

[WinterGael]

53 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

now,

let us assume that what you say is reasonably in line with reality

then, how come,

so many farangs are still settling here for retirement?

 

the stream of settlers is quite big

Okay, I'm new here and chose to come here because its where I've wanted to live for the past 45 years. How long I can live here, even married to a thai wife is another story. People are still coming here to retire, but from what I've seen in the last 2 years it is a trickle, not a stream. I've met many, most on their way out, or as 1 gentleman put it, "I've sold my house, sold my car. Rent, ride my bike, and wait for the day I can't live here, or the social uprising that's coming arrives. Thailand is only home to the hardcore, now."

 

I have lots of friends my age who ask why I don't come live in Mexico, Panama, Spain, etc. They make less than I do and their money goes further. I'm here, as stated, because its the only place I've ever dreamed of being, and I will try to live here for as long as possible. 

[Canuckabroad]

4 minutes ago, Oziex1 said:

If they did not return home, where did they go.  Any informed opinion on a more suitable SE Asian country to settle In? 

It all depends on your criteria.  Someone interested in good infrastructure might pick a different place then someone interested in pay-for-play women, and they both might pick somewhere different than someone who wants permanent residency in 3-5 years.

 

Vietnam and Taiwan are both near the top of my list, for different reasons.

[Canuckabroad]

7 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

Fair enough,

but PI has somth which is different from LoS and VietNam

 

the vast majority of the PI population is Christian,

not that I am religious by any means but it means

that some core values (moral/integrity/ethics) is shared,

 

reasonably common ideas about what is right/wrong and good/bad

 

I find this noticeable unless you live in a farang ghetto

 

I agree with you, right down to the not-religious-but-core-values part.  That's why I like Saigon.  Half the girls I meet here are Catholic.

[overherebc]

39 minutes ago, Fex Bluse said:

This is true. What is funny though is that those cheaper Indians and Filipinos and Thais are generally not equal to Westerners. I know it sounds arrogant but it's true in my view. 

 

But, what many expats never realized until late is that Thais don't care about quality or excellence. They are happy with "good enough", so there really is no motivation to pay for quality people. The entire country is built around incompetence and mediocrity. No place for talented people. 

Without going so far as your good self I agree.

[My Thai Life]

I haven’t waded through all the posts, so maybe someone has already made the obvious point that Thai Visa does not represent farangs in Thailand.

 

Any survey based on respondents from TV is inherently unreliable, fun though it may be for “members”.

[stanleycoin]

11 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

I haven’t waded through all the posts, so maybe someone has already made the obvious point that Thai Visa does not represent farangs in Thailand.

 

Any survey based on respondents from TV is inherently unreliable, fun though it may be for “members”.

It don't matter,.

We all know Thailand is only good for drinking and Shagging.

The rest is all buggered up, but it's still a laugh here

if you don't give up the above. 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2018 by stanleycoin

[JAG]

47 minutes ago, Fex Bluse said:

The entire country is built around incompetence and mediocrity. No place for talented people. 

Oh dear, and I feel quite at home here...

[rumak]

4 hours ago, impulse said:

Thailand is still a bargain, but not the bargain it used to be.

well,  my cost of living is still  about 70% less than my daughter who lives (modestly) in North America.

 

eat simple ,  live simple,   live healthy          that is my retirement plan

can't think of another country that can compare  ( for me, that is)

many threads on leaving and going to laos or cambodia or phil,  or vietnam .

if YOUNG maybe worth a shot.   but for retirees seeking a modest but comfortable lifestyle

i think thailand still wins.   

[melvinmelvin]

52 minutes ago, Fex Bluse said:

This is true. What is funny though is that those cheaper Indians and Filipinos and Thais are generally not equal to Westerners. I know it sounds arrogant but it's true in my view. 

 

But, what many expats never realized until late is that Thais don't care about quality or excellence. They are happy with "good enough", so there really is no motivation to pay for quality people. The entire country is built around incompetence and mediocrity. No place for talented people. 

 

No use for good people?

I know a bunch of Thais, they are quite talented, fluent in English and/or French, they are not very happy working in BKK.

Several of these have 2 degrees, first lawyer or engineer and then later topping it off with finance and or business administration while working a full-time job.

Why? Too far away from decision-making. These people have ideas. They want to try ‘em out. Cannot do. Must be digested in some committee or other consisting of 5-10 people of the age 60-70 years.

Nothing ever comes to fruition. My friends are not happy.

No fun working if you are remote from decision-making

Anyway, have worked a fair amount in BKK myself. Not paid by anyone in LoS but my Northern European employer has let me spend weeks and months in BKK to share my expertise with Thais.

Interesting and frustrating trying to learn Thais to be more assertive in international organisations and negotiations, and have them understand why it is necessary.

Gave me an insight into a very different mind-set from mine. Quite incredible what I learned during coffee breaks and lunches.’

Thai MFA have some very good people and some no good. Interesting experience was that those no good would rather take hints from me than from fellow Thais.

[melvinmelvin]

31 minutes ago, WinterGael said:

Okay, I'm new here and chose to come here because its where I've wanted to live for the past 45 years. How long I can live here, even married to a thai wife is another story. People are still coming here to retire, but from what I've seen in the last 2 years it is a trickle, not a stream. I've met many, most on their way out, or as 1 gentleman put it, "I've sold my house, sold my car. Rent, ride my bike, and wait for the day I can't live here, or the social uprising that's coming arrives. Thailand is only home to the hardcore, now."

 

I have lots of friends my age who ask why I don't come live in Mexico, Panama, Spain, etc. They make less than I do and their money goes further. I'm here, as stated, because its the only place I've ever dreamed of being, and I will try to live here for as long as possible. 

 

good for you if LoS really meet your expectations, cheers!

 

[JAG]

7 minutes ago, rumak said:

well,  my cost of living is still  about 70% less than my daughter who lives (modestly) in North America.

 

eat simple ,  live simple,   live healthy          that is my retirement plan

can't think of another country that can compare  ( for me, that is)

many threads on leaving and going to laos or cambodia or phil,  or vietnam .

if YOUNG maybe worth a shot.   but for retirees seeking a modest but comfortable lifestyle

i think thailand still wins.   

I'm not (yet) retired. I teach part time, teach online for a few hours a week and have a small occupational pension. I can live in rural northern Thailand, in a pleasant, comfortable if not luxurious (paid for) house, on about 4 rai of land, on which we grow almost all our fruit and vegetables - well actually my wife does, I just offer advice, which she ignores! I have a wife and daughter. I can afford to run an old but adequate pick up, which I can replace with a similar vehicle if necessary.  I can have a night out with a few beers and a curry every couple of weeks. I can afford to eat out with my wife and daughter every couple of weeks. It is a comfortable lifestyle, and I am very content. 

 

There is no way that I could live like this, in the UK, on my income. And it rains too much. Thailand wins.

[bannork]

38 minutes ago, WinterGael said:

Okay, I'm new here and chose to come here because its where I've wanted to live for the past 45 years. How long I can live here, even married to a thai wife is another story. People are still coming here to retire, but from what I've seen in the last 2 years it is a trickle, not a stream. I've met many, most on their way out, or as 1 gentleman put it, "I've sold my house, sold my car. Rent, ride my bike, and wait for the day I can't live here, or the social uprising that's coming arrives. Thailand is only home to the hardcore, now."

 

I have lots of friends my age who ask why I don't come live in Mexico, Panama, Spain, etc. They make less than I do and their money goes further. I'm here, as stated, because its the only place I've ever dreamed of being, and I will try to live here for as long as possible. 

I've sold my house, sold my car. Rent, ride my bike, and wait for the day I can't live here, or the social uprising that's coming arrives. Thailand is only home to the hardcore, now.

That last sentence is hilarious. So now those of us who love Thailand and have no intention of leaving, are called hard core rather than Thai apologists. I better get the tattoos in the morning.

[observer90210]

Perhaps making retirement visas less of a hassle, putting an end to all the 90 day reporting, making life easier to get a yellow book, a driving licence an alien ID card, not having to bulge around all over with one's passport and stop racketing the legal and decent foreigners at road blocks, may help ?  And maybe posters and national campaigns that rather say "Welcome Foreigner".....instead of "X-Ray Outlaw bust foreigner etc. etc"..... could also help to bring back foreigners ?

[tideout]

I can see why people might like Vietnam over Thailand but I don't think I'm one of them. The culture here quite different from Thailand in my experience. I get why westerners are not happy with the direction of government but Vietnam is no picnic for many. Heavy censorship (one major newspaper punished for an article the Government didn't like with a 3 month suspension of their online publication), heavy handed (to put it politely) with protesters and bloggers, almost guaranteed increases in monitoring of Facebook in the coming new year etc..

As for the Chinese issue - Hanoi just made a very controversial deal with Beijing on 99 year leases here in several tourist areas in Vietnam. The HCM city government met with the Chinese embassy prior to that to seal an agreement to increase annual Chinese tourism from 500,000 to 1.5 million Chinese tourists in HCM. It's really not a modern infrastructure ready for that type of increase. Still wages are better here for foreigners and as of this date, it's fairly flexible to start a business as a foreigner. 

[cyberfarang]

The reasons I believe western expats are leaving Thailand in droves and less are coming here is because over the last 5 years the government have got serious about enforcing the immigration laws, such as limitations on border runs, tighter scrutiny by immigration, raids on illegal businesses and workers and better criminal checks. They are filtering out the rubbish.

 

[NCC1701A]

my god, I had better put a chain around my compound's front gate and a mattress up against the front door. 

 

 

[Bangkok Ape]

Anyone who's relocation choice is restricted to PI and Thailand is clearly a sex tourist.

[DrTuner]

1 hour ago, bannork said:

I've sold my house, sold my car. Rent, ride my bike, and wait for the day I can't live here, or the social uprising that's coming arrives. Thailand is only home to the hardcore, now.

That last sentence is hilarious. So now those of us who love Thailand and have no intention of leaving, are called hard core rather than Thai apologists. I better get the tattoos in the morning.

Maybe do a "Last man standing" tattoo, should look cool when you really are the last expat in Thailand.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

So...  Has it occurred to anyone involved in this survey that the internet landscape for web forums is changing a lot the last couple years?

 

New arrivals are a lot less likely to sign up for some web forum and then participate in a survey they organize.  Yeah, that'll result in changes alright, but it's changes within Thaivisa (and web forums and Internet use in general) a lot more than actual change in the real world.

 

And some of the conclusions are iffy, such that people made good on their promise to leave.  You don't know if those same people actually left, or that they didn't fill in the survey this time.    It's a conclusion pulled out of thin air: it seems obvious that you need to ask the same people, then you can compare and draw conclusions.

 

 

[mommysboy]

So much has changed both within and without Thailand.

 

It can come as no surprise that youngsters are choosing to go home, because of lack of opportunities, poor pay, and the rising cost of living.  I suppose a graduate that comes out here may still be servicing a student debt.

 

So, Thailand is becoming a haven for the retired; I think it will become increasingly so.  

 

Many of the working age people I've spoken simply haven't adjusted to the tighter immigration rules, and also simply don't regard Thailand as that cheap anymore. 

[DrTuner]

It could be as simple as Thailand not being fun anymore. Better pastures elsewhere.

[tropo]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

Every two years since 2014 Thaivisa has conducted a Western Expat survey of Thailand. This years survey received a respectable 1,429 respondents. The trends suggest a worrying time for the future of the Western Expat in Thailand.

Why would "the future of the Western Expat in Thailand" be worrying? Who's worrying about it? Certainly not the government, with all the (stupid) hoops they force them to jump through, and operations like "X-Ray Operation Outlaw Foreigner". Expats are being made to feel less welcome by the year.

 

The government is mainly interested in affluent, high-quality tourists.

 

I wouldn't be worried in the slightest if half the Western expats leave tomorrow. Why would that affect anyone that wants to stay until they turn the lights off? Expats have choices - they can leave and relocate elsewhere.