Less Western Expats arriving than ever before and a significant fall in working Western expats now in Thailand

[Odysseus123]

1 minute ago, NightSky said:

Im suprized no one has already mentioned it. The survey by THAIVISA is sent out to its readers every 2 years by email..

 

It may simply mean less people are reading email, or less emails are reaching the inbox, or there are less readers on Thai Visa, or more readers are older now since Netflix arrived.

 

1400+ respondents is a good cohort but not a large enough slice of the expat community to make sweeping generalized claims that this is a true representation of the entire expat community. Its simply a small slice of Thai Visa readership who had time to respond and who actually saw the email / forum thread.

Sure.

[kannot]

6 hours ago, overherebc said:

Never seen such a waste of time, money, manpower and material in all my life.

clearly..............u  havent  been  here  long  enough  yet  then!?

[Lacessit]

After reading through the posts on this thread, I am wondering if I am in the same country.

 

1/ Just about every Thai I have met has been friendly.

 

2/ I have never been shaken down by a cop. The couple of times I have been fined, it was for valid infringements.

 

3/ While the Thai hunger for paper continues to bemuse me, by employing the right people officialdom can be navigated reasonably painlessly. If that's corrupt, tell someone who cares.

 

4/ Thailand is cheap. My cost of living here is one-third of what it would be in Australia.

 

5/  Thai laws on relationships, marriage and relationship breakdown are far more sensible than those in Western countries.

 

6/  I like Thai food. Done properly, it's healthier than many other cuisines.

 

7/  Thai women are like any other. They want commitment and support. Once that is given, and you have earned their trust, they will do almost anything for you.

 

It's easy to live here, which is why I find it difficult to understand the barrage of complaints. Perhaps my attitude is different.

 

 

 

 

[peperobi]

6 hours ago, smutcakes said:

Thailand also gives you citizenship after 5-10 years if you qualify. The problem for many is they ignore it for the 1st 5 years then start thinking about it. And then they realize that they should have thought about it 5 years ago and now its all a bit to much.

 

Its ironic that so many lament the Thais for the difficulties in obtaining visas, 90 day reporting (which is pretty much a nothing) etc they will be the first ones complaining about their home countries letting in immigrants or having to lax regulations. 

What I know is follow: after 7 years you can apply for the residence status. If you have the residence you can apply after 10 years for the citizen. If that what you wrote is true then shut be new.

[SpeakeasyThai]

2 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Some very interesting and truthful impressions of the real Thailand.  The way to limit irritations that works for me-

-I have given up trying to change or alter the way any Thai thinks or acts-  it is impossible unless they live abroad for some years, so I accept the 'loss of face'; selfishness; poor driving as part of Thai culture that I  now ignore but inwardly laugh about as being ridiculous.

 

-I try and limit my exposure to any Thai official or Government office.

 

-I keep my bank accounts and all monies offshore to avoid having to deal with Thai banks and officials

 

-I refuse to join the Thai rat race while on the highways of speeding; changing lanes erratically etc.  When a  Thai vehicle flashes their lights and is one foot behind me- I simply ignore it.  If the police stop me at a checkpoint- I smile and pretend never to understand them  even though I can speak Thai.

 

-If I am somewhere such as a market or place of business and the Thai clerk makes remarks about me or about foreigners in general- I makes sure that I speak Thai well enough to let them know  I understand what they said- simply smile and move on.

 

-I refuse to become selfish; cut in front of people and  not hold the door open for a person behind me.  Maybe a few people will notice and change their behavior.

 

-I smile all the time in various situations just like the Thais do but they can't understand my body language and what I really feel.

 

-I ignore what the Thai news says and what the Thai Government also says- no one knows if any of it is true or if it is- it can change again next week.

 

-I never get into discussion with a Thai about Thai systems; criticize the Thai way or say anything that can be construed as a threat to them.  If they don't care about reforms, corruption or their way of life- why should I?

 

These are just some examples that I use in Thailand to keep my sanity .

 

Very sad outlook if I may say so. Your chosen self inflicted oppressiveness  could shorten your life with a horrible onset of a stress related incurable disease.

 

I don't see you as the life and soul of a party, all things considered.

 

[dunroaming]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

After reading through the posts on this thread, I am wondering if I am in the same country.

 

1/ Just about every Thai I have met has been friendly.

 

2/ I have never been shaken down by a cop. The couple of times I have been fined, it was for valid infringements.

 

3/ While the Thai hunger for paper continues to bemuse me, by employing the right people officialdom can be navigated reasonably painlessly. If that's corrupt, tell someone who cares.

 

4/ Thailand is cheap. My cost of living here is one-third of what it would be in Australia.

 

5/  Thai laws on relationships, marriage and relationship breakdown are far more sensible than those in Western countries.

 

6/  I like Thai food. Done properly, it's healthier than many other cuisines.

 

7/  Thai women are like any other. They want commitment and support. Once that is given, and you have earned their trust, they will do almost anything for you.

 

It's easy to live here, which is why I find it difficult to understand the barrage of complaints. Perhaps my attitude is different.

 

 

 

 

Clearly Thailand is right for you.  There will be plenty like you and plenty who have been let down in their expectations and will move on.  There will also be plenty who complain about how Thailand has gone to the dogs but still carry on living there.

[jimster]

27 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

Stayed here one year now to sell my sailboat. Stayed on a retirement extension. Here are the comparisons from my homes in Salvador Brazil, St. Augustine, FL and here in Pattaya. I am US citizen with residency in Brazil.

 

Costs;   Brazil and Pattaya about equal, USA 30% higher

 

Immigration: Brazil life-time residency thru "Stable Union" with my GF, Pattaya, no residency just extension with no assurance in the future

 

land ownership: Brazil, direct oceanfront 5000 Sq/Ft home built total costs US$280K, Pattaya, rent as purchasing condo in swamped market is insane. USA buying same house as Brazil US$ 1,500,000 with taxes insurance US$1,800/month with hurricanes likely.

 

health insurance; Brazil US$500/month, Pattaya US$190/month, both hospitals suck. USA medicaid

 

crime and safety: All three have issues. For retired guy USA safest followed by Brazil then Pattaya

 

Corruption; Pattaya worst, USA least

 

Quality of life; Brazil #1, Pattaya #3

 

women; Pattaya has mainly uneducated prostitutes available for retired expats. Brazil, even though prostitution is legal there are far to many beautiful women so there is little demand P4P. USA there is little or no option for retiree to find young pretty GF. If one does the price is high and future bleak

 

IMHO one will never find the best place to retire on the internet as those places are  ones that haven't been ruined by hordes of expats and remain under the radar. Twenty years ago I lived and developed property in Costa Rica. Paradise until the hordes arrived. Pattaya the hordes had already ravished the place well before my arrival. Only positives I see now in LOS is cheap rent and if you wish to have P4P sex with young girls. Although Brazil has issues with crime it is by and large isolated to favelas and as a retired white man I have never been affected in 20 years there. I have owned RE and businesses and enjoyed in excess of 10% return on my savings on top of foreign exchange gains which allowed me to invest in properties below market prices. I enjoy life free from police and immigration harassment. Brazil is a huge and proud country that unlike the USA and LOS, welcomes people from all over the world. Don't always believe all that you read until you have lived there a couple years. To be honest after one year here LOS would not be included in my top 10 of places to retire, but then again my top requirements are not prostitutes and cheap discount living.

 

 

Brazil and other countries in S.America look interesting but I'm not sure about their yellow fever vaccination requirements for entry. Seems like they force you to get one, unless you can get an exemption, but if you've ever had a vaccine injury and don't want to get one, it's like you are not given a choice. In Thailand only travelers from countries where yellow fever is endemic (parts of S.America and parts of west Africa) are asked for proof, meaning the average westerner or regional traveler/expat from Asia is not affected.

 

Doesn't surprise me the USA is the safest especially if you are referring to a small town, but I'd have my doubts if you were comparing big cities like New York , Los Angeles and Chicago, particularly dodgy areas like East LA and other suburbs with lots of gang activity. No parts of Thailand have such areas, though I wouldn't want to spend any time in slum areas like Khlong Toey and even the Muslim slums around Ramkhamhaeng/Pattanakarn don't look very welcoming to outsiders especially after dark. Elsewhere no problem, as long as you mind your own business. I would include Pattaya in that - never felt threatened there ever, whether during the day or after dark. There are annoyances like people selling you fruit, seafood and souvenirs every 2 minutes while you're trying to relax in your deck chair but apart from that, it's quite safe. Suburban and country areas of Thailand are even safer - I'm surprised Brazil would be considered safer than Thailand though I can imagine like you say, it depends on the area but unlike Thailand it definitely does have entire city blocks that are no go zones for outsiders. Thailand only has undesirable slum areas, but aside from that it's safe if you don't go looking for trouble.

 

 

[JAZZDOG]

4 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

After reading through the posts on this thread, I am wondering if I am in the same country.

 

1/ Just about every Thai I have met has been friendly.

 

2/ I have never been shaken down by a cop. The couple of times I have been fined, it was for valid infringements.

 

3/ While the Thai hunger for paper continues to bemuse me, by employing the right people officialdom can be navigated reasonably painlessly. If that's corrupt, tell someone who cares.

 

4/ Thailand is cheap. My cost of living here is one-third of what it would be in Australia.

 

5/  Thai laws on relationships, marriage and relationship breakdown are far more sensible than those in Western countries.

 

6/  I like Thai food. Done properly, it's healthier than many other cuisines.

 

7/  Thai women are like any other. They want commitment and support. Once that is given, and you have earned their trust, they will do almost anything for you.

 

It's easy to live here, which is why I find it difficult to understand the barrage of complaints. Perhaps my attitude is different.

 

 

 

 

You are basically here for 2 &7. Cheap living with cheap young women. Nothing wrong with that just leave out the other rubbish.

[oslooskar]

19 minutes ago, tropo said:

My prediction is "fewer" will be gone in one more generation. It is a totally unnecessary complication.

That doesn’t mean it will disappear. Contemporary English orthography is also an unnecessary complication but it is still very much with us in the English-Speaking world.

[jimster]

43 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

Stayed here one year now to sell my sailboat. Stayed on a retirement extension. Here are the comparisons from my homes in Salvador Brazil, St. Augustine, FL and here in Pattaya. I am US citizen with residency in Brazil.

 

Costs;   Brazil and Pattaya about equal, USA 30% higher

 

Immigration: Brazil life-time residency thru "Stable Union" with my GF, Pattaya, no residency just extension with no assurance in the future

 

land ownership: Brazil, direct oceanfront 5000 Sq/Ft home built total costs US$280K, Pattaya, rent as purchasing condo in swamped market is insane. USA buying same house as Brazil US$ 1,500,000 with taxes insurance US$1,800/month with hurricanes likely.

 

health insurance; Brazil US$500/month, Pattaya US$190/month, both hospitals suck. USA medicaid

 

crime and safety: All three have issues. For retired guy USA safest followed by Brazil then Pattaya

 

Corruption; Pattaya worst, USA least

 

Quality of life; Brazil #1, Pattaya #3

 

women; Pattaya has mainly uneducated prostitutes available for retired expats. Brazil, even though prostitution is legal there are far to many beautiful women so there is little demand P4P. USA there is little or no option for retiree to find young pretty GF. If one does the price is high and future bleak

 

IMHO one will never find the best place to retire on the internet as those places are  ones that haven't been ruined by hordes of expats and remain under the radar. Twenty years ago I lived and developed property in Costa Rica. Paradise until the hordes arrived. Pattaya the hordes had already ravished the place well before my arrival. Only positives I see now in LOS is cheap rent and if you wish to have P4P sex with young girls. Although Brazil has issues with crime it is by and large isolated to favelas and as a retired white man I have never been affected in 20 years there. I have owned RE and businesses and enjoyed in excess of 10% return on my savings on top of foreign exchange gains which allowed me to invest in properties below market prices. I enjoy life free from police and immigration harassment. Brazil is a huge and proud country that unlike the USA and LOS, welcomes people from all over the world. Don't always believe all that you read until you have lived there a couple years. To be honest after one year here LOS would not be included in my top 10 of places to retire, but then again my top requirements are not prostitutes and cheap discount living.

 

 

The other thing I was going to ask is the language issue.

 

I have learned to speak, read and write Thai fluently, but strictly speaking one could get by quite OK in Thailand just using English. This is made possible by the fact a large segment of the Thai population can speak at least some basic English, especially in tourist/expat areas where English is widely spoken, plus you have English language menus, signage etc. all over the country.

 

Brazil and South America in general strike me as places where there is hostility towards English and you can't readily find an English menu or a local who speaks English, nor is English found on road signs? It's like they assume you can understand their language just because it's written in the same Latin script as English is?

 

Do you need to learn Portuguese to live in Brazil or can you get by in English? What about other S. American countries? Do you absolutely need to learn Spanish because nothing is in English as I've been led to believe?

[JAZZDOG]

7 minutes ago, jimster said:

 

Brazil and other countries in S.America look interesting but I'm not sure about their yellow fever vaccination requirements for entry. Seems like they force you to get one, unless you can get an exemption, but if you've ever had a vaccine injury and don't want to get one, it's like you are not given a choice. In Thailand only travelers from countries where yellow fever is endemic (parts of S.America and parts of west Africa) are asked for proof, meaning the average westerner or regional traveler/expat from Asia is not affected.

 

Doesn't surprise me the USA is the safest especially if you are referring to a small town, but I'd have my doubts if you were comparing big cities like New York , Los Angeles and Chicago, particularly dodgy areas like East LA and other suburbs with lots of gang activity. No parts of Thailand have such areas, though I wouldn't want to spend any time in slum areas like Khlong Toey and even the Muslim slums around Ramkhamhaeng/Pattanakarn don't look very welcoming to outsiders especially after dark. Elsewhere no problem, as long as you mind your own business. I would include Pattaya in that - never felt threatened there ever, whether during the day or after dark. There are annoyances like people selling you fruit, seafood and souvenirs every 2 minutes while you're trying to relax in your deck chair but apart from that, it's quite safe. Suburban and country areas of Thailand are even safer - I'm surprised Brazil would be considered safer than Thailand though I can imagine like you say, it depends on the area but unlike Thailand it definitely does have entire city blocks that are no go zones for outsiders. Thailand only has undesirable slum areas, but aside from that it's safe if you don't go looking for trouble.

 

 

The safety aspect in Pattaya is more about traffic safety and the fact there are so many impaired people in public, booze and yaba.

I am personally far more at risk here behind the wheel or just crossing the road. Dead and/or maimed is the same, shot or run over.

[bkk6060]

17 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

After reading through the posts on this thread, I am wondering if I am in the same country.

 

1/ Just about every Thai I have met has been friendly.

 

2/ I have never been shaken down by a cop. The couple of times I have been fined, it was for valid infringements.

 

3/ While the Thai hunger for paper continues to bemuse me, by employing the right people officialdom can be navigated reasonably painlessly. If that's corrupt, tell someone who cares.

 

4/ Thailand is cheap. My cost of living here is one-third of what it would be in Australia.

 

5/  Thai laws on relationships, marriage and relationship breakdown are far more sensible than those in Western countries.

 

6/  I like Thai food. Done properly, it's healthier than many other cuisines.

 

7/  Thai women are like any other. They want commitment and support. Once that is given, and you have earned their trust, they will do almost anything for you.

 

It's easy to live here, which is why I find it difficult to understand the barrage of complaints. Perhaps my attitude is different.

 

 

 

 

Very smart comments i am 100% on board.

Alot of it is attitude for sure.

[JAZZDOG]

5 minutes ago, jimster said:

 

The other thing I was going to ask is the language issue.

 

I have learned to speak, read and write Thai fluently, but strictly speaking one could get by quite OK in Thailand just using English. This is made possible by the fact a large segment of the Thai population can speak at least some basic English, especially in tourist/expat areas where English is widely spoken, plus you have English language menus, signage etc. all over the country.

 

Brazil and South America in general strike me as places where there is hostility towards English and you can't readily find an English menu or a local who speaks English, nor is English found on road signs? It's like they assume you can understand their language just because it's written in the same Latin script as English is?

 

Do you need to learn Portuguese to live in Brazil or can you get by in English? What about other S. American countries? Do you absolutely need to learn Spanish because nothing is in English as I've been led to believe?

Learning the language is easy, especially when English speakers are limited. Thai is much more difficult to learn IMHO.

[BritManToo]

5 hours ago, cnx355 said:

Vietnam would be a good alternative to Thailand but the visa situation is not favorable for retiree, 

Vietnam, married to a local gets you a 5 year multi-entry VISA for $40.

Lots of English speaking locals.

[BritManToo]

11 minutes ago, jimster said:

Do you need to learn Portuguese to live in Brazil or can you get by in English? What about other S. American countries? Do you absolutely need to learn Spanish because nothing is in English as I've been led to believe?

You can't really manage out there without learning Spanish or Portuguese.

Brazil is nasty though, better off in a Spanish speaking country IMHO.

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, jimster said:

 

Good post with lots of valid points but if you think neighboring countries are doing a good job at luring tourists and better than Thailand, you're dreaming. For all it's faults, Thailand is still the best of the bunch and will remain a far more attractive place for tourists with the government doing more to promote tourism and welcome foreigners than any of it's neighbors (except perhaps Singapore).

 

Let me give you some examples: 2018 is Visit Laos year. The year of Lao tourism. But Laos has since last year quietly decided to ban motorcyclists coming across the border from Thailand (and to some extent from Vietnam too) with borders, one by one closing to solo bikers and now requiring a guide and tour. Some borders are even banning bicycles too! Yes, bicycles! Some borders don't allow any motorcycles in or out, irrespective of whether you are on a tour or not. So you pay for a tour, show up at one of these borders and then the Lao authorities don't let you in or out. At least Thailand doesn't play such stupid games. Even with its new rules on the entry of foreign registered vehicles implemented in 2016 and covering vehicles from 3rd countries with which it does not share an agreement on cross-border transport (this means any country except it's 4 neighbors and Singapore), there have been exceptions made to the rules including allowing vehicle types not covered into the country.

Laos' infrastructure is truly awful and embarrassing for a country that claims it's "landlinked" as opposed to "landlocked" (every half decent road in the country becomes a piece of crap after about 2-3 years), the country is now swamped with Chinese tourists and Chinese settlers all over the country. There's not much Lao about northern Laos anymore and even Vientiane is turning into a Chinatown - one sees more signs in Chinese than Laos in many parts of the country, better brush up on your Mandarin!

At least a tourist can still feel they are in Thailand when they visit here.

Lao authorities are also extremely paranoid about foreigners taking pictures of things they don't allow, like dams, bridges, the police etc. It's like they still think it's the cold war. Maybe they need a heads up to remind them the cold war ended nearly 3 decades ago and if they continue to act like this, tourists will vote with their feet, which they are doing, according to an article about Lao tourism I read recently which mentioned that tourism in the country is down significantly this year. A few years back, I observed a Lao official scold 2 Hungarian tourists for taking a picture of an exhibit where it said "no photography" at the Luang Prabang palace. He shouted at the top of his lungs and threatened them - telling them to immediately delete said photo or be arrested by the police, in full view of dozens of other tourists of various nationalities. Such disgusting behavior by officials would never happen in Thailand, a country where it's OK to take pictures of soldiers in uniform, and where they are happy to comply with such requests!

 

Cambodia also doesn't make it easy for overlanders, though unlike Laos it hasn't changed it's rules recently. Infrastucture, though better than in Laos is still pretty atrocious and compared to Thailand it's as if you've stepped 30 years back in time. This is a country which barely knows the concept of a multi-lane highway as there's only one short 70km stretch running north from Phnom Penh, but the outer lanes are usually covered in sand or mud or places where food carts and cars are parked so you have to drive in the fast lane.

As for visas, expats doing nothing or working illegally are no longer welcome. Since September 2017, authorities are no longer issuing 1 year extensions of stay by just rocking up to a travel agency and paying the required fee. Now you need a work permit. They have introduced a couple of new categories of extensions of stay, including a retirement visa for those aged 50 or 55 and above and an EG "looking for work" category valid for a stay of up to 6 months before you have to do a visa run. So digital nomads and all the types that have found it harder and harder to stay in Thailand could just go to Cambodia instead and stay up to 7 months before needing to leave and start the visa process over again though up until last year they could stay, 12 months at a time without going anywhere. Either way, in Cambodia you get poorer quality internet, terrible infrastructure, higher prices and a lower standard of living even if some of the dining in the tourist areas can be quite good. And let's not talk about health care. If anything happens to you, you'll need to make your way to Ho Chi Minh or Bangkok as soon as possible. There are a lot of dodgy expats in Cambodia. I've met quite a few. Most are drunks and claim to be doing this or that while spending all of their time at the bar, one guy I met in Siem Reap is in real estate (apparently but who knows whether he worked there for one month 5 years ago and just gave me his business card so he can convince others he's not actually an unemployed drunk). I knew another guy, American, who claimed to be running this agricultural project in the provinces but was always drunk at the bar in Phnom Penh every night and sure enough, he died about 2 years ago from organ failure aged only 60 even though I swear he looked like he was 75. If life in Thailand fails, Cambodia is like the end of the road where expats go to get wasted, wither away and die.

 

Vietnam. Health care in the big cities and infrastructure are OK but still a far cry from Thailand even if they're catching up fast. But the authorities there are hostile towards foreigners driving vehicles into the country with some borders now banning foreigners driving cars in from neighboring countries - though citizens of Cambodia and Laos are OK. Many people in the tourism industry love scamming tourists and expats and anyone who doesn't speak Vietnamese is fair game. The Viets are much more aggressive and likely to rip off foreign tourists than their Thai counterparts. The authorities also charge high fees for visas, though they were dropped recently and a few nationalities can come in for 15 days without a visa, these visa exempt visitors face strict requirements like having to show a round-trip plane ticket and no extensions allowed and no re-entry into Vietnam without a visa if you previously were on a visa waiver for at least 2 months. The visa waiver is thus OK if you're from an exempt country and coming for a one off 2 week trip or come once a year say, but is much more restrictive than the Thai visa waiver, valid for 30 days, which has no such restrictions other than the 2 land border entry per year rule. Vietnam also doesn't like foreigner hanging around most of it's border areas (except near legal international border crossings) and it's police and military are very hostile towards innocent tourists accidently taking pictures of things they don't like.

 

Myanmar. Infrastructure is better than in Laos and Cambodia, though it's still pretty basic. Hotels are expensive, foreigners are restricted from staying only at licensed hotels and guesthouses and prohibited from staying in apartments or private homes except with special permission or if they have a work visa and work permit. But even then they have to report their whereabouts to the local authorities and when traveling must take their passports and visas for hotels to examine. Many parts of the country are restricted to foreigners and to drive a car into the country you need to go on an expensive tour (except for limited excursions near the Thai borders).

 

Western tourists are still coming to Thailand and for all the hype, they aren't going to any of these neighboring countries mentioned instead of Thailand. Westerners stopped going to Myanmar because of the Rohingya crisis (even though it has been over politicized, hyped up and doesn't affect anyone as northern Rakhine state is off-limits to foreigners anyway), Vietnam struggles to attract more than 8 million tourists a year and few repeat tourists due to all the overcharging of foreigners and aggressive taxi drivers. Laos has some nice landscapes but it's kinda boring with relatively little to do, no beaches and is now turning into a Chinese province. Plus it's a communist dictatorship, the people are nice but shy and not nearly as cheerful and smiley as Thais and Cambodians are.

 

You make some very good points. Thanks for the articulate summation. Been to Burma a few times, and do not need to return. The government and military there are heinous beyond belief. So is Suu Kyi. A real fraud. Been to Vietnam a few times, and will never return. Find most Viet people to be like cold fish. Very aloof, and some are even hostile. Gorgeous women, and great food. But, other than that, I despise communist governments, and all they represent, so would rather avoid lending my support to the govts. of Laos and Vietnam anyway. Crime in Cambodia is out of control. And the government is probably the most murderous and thieving of all of the SE Asian nations. Hun Sen is a serial killing despot multi billionaire thief. No thanks. 

[jimster]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

You can't really manage out there without learning Spanish or Portuguese.

That's what I thought, so what I was told is correct.

 

Not everyone is good at languages or wants to learn a new one when they're older. In that sense, Thailand is better because as I mentioned, one can get by with just English and many locals start speaking to you in English assuming you can't speak Thai unless you make it clear that you can.

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, JAZZDOG said:

Stayed here one year now to sell my sailboat. Stayed on a retirement extension. Here are the comparisons from my homes in Salvador Brazil, St. Augustine, FL and here in Pattaya. I am US citizen with residency in Brazil.

 

Costs;   Brazil and Pattaya about equal, USA 30% higher

 

Immigration: Brazil life-time residency thru "Stable Union" with my GF, Pattaya, no residency just extension with no assurance in the future

 

land ownership: Brazil, direct oceanfront 5000 Sq/Ft home built total costs US$280K, Pattaya, rent as purchasing condo in swamped market is insane. USA buying same house as Brazil US$ 1,500,000 with taxes insurance US$1,800/month with hurricanes likely.

 

health insurance; Brazil US$500/month, Pattaya US$190/month, both hospitals suck. USA medicaid

 

crime and safety: All three have issues. For retired guy USA safest followed by Brazil then Pattaya

 

Corruption; Pattaya worst, USA least

 

Quality of life; Brazil #1, Pattaya #3

 

women; Pattaya has mainly uneducated prostitutes available for retired expats. Brazil, even though prostitution is legal there are far to many beautiful women so there is little demand P4P. USA there is little or no option for retiree to find young pretty GF. If one does the price is high and future bleak

 

IMHO one will never find the best place to retire on the internet as those places are  ones that haven't been ruined by hordes of expats and remain under the radar. Twenty years ago I lived and developed property in Costa Rica. Paradise until the hordes arrived. Pattaya the hordes had already ravished the place well before my arrival. Only positives I see now in LOS is cheap rent and if you wish to have P4P sex with young girls. Although Brazil has issues with crime it is by and large isolated to favelas and as a retired white man I have never been affected in 20 years there. I have owned RE and businesses and enjoyed in excess of 10% return on my savings on top of foreign exchange gains which allowed me to invest in properties below market prices. I enjoy life free from police and immigration harassment. Brazil is a huge and proud country that unlike the USA and LOS, welcomes people from all over the world. Don't always believe all that you read until you have lived there a couple years. To be honest after one year here LOS would not be included in my top 10 of places to retire, but then again my top requirements are not prostitutes and cheap discount living.

First time in my life I have ever heard anyone say Brazil is safer than Thailand. I have friends who hire armed bodyguards in Brazil, the security situation is so bad. Never had an issue here, nor do I feel the need to constantly be looking over my shoulders for insane 14 year old kids with pistols. 

[metisdead]

A troll post has been removed. 

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, spidermike007 said:

 

You make some very good points. Thanks for the articulate summation. Been to Burma a few times, and do not need to return. The government and military there are heinous beyond belief. So is Suu Kyi. A real fraud. Been to Vietnam a few times, and will never return. Find most Viet people to be like cold fish. Very aloof, and some are even hostile. Gorgeous women, and great food. But, other than that, I despise communist governments, and all they represent, so would rather avoid lending my support to the govts. of Laos and Vietnam anyway. Crime in Cambodia is out of control. And the government is probably the most murderous and thieving of all of the SE Asian nations. Hun Sen is a serial killing despot multi billionaire thief. No thanks. 

Agree with you about Laos and Cambodia (complete hellholes).

Disagree with you about Vietnam, my pals love Vietnam (but they're all drunks and only care about cheap beer).

[overherebc]

16 minutes ago, kannot said:

clearly..............u  havent  been  here  long  enough  yet  then!?

30 odd years not enough then?

??.

Strangely enough I was taken on to 'lead the clearing the NCR backlog team' and at first I thought it was a wind up.

I think previously I had seen maybe 10 or 12 NCR's on large contracts whe I was told it was nearly 200 I nearly choked.

A prime example of the crap issued was one stating 'a label left sticking inside pipe No xxxxx and not removed before welding.'  Believe it.

The NCR was issued a couple of days after the welding had started. That means to clear the NCR you have two choices.

1. Cut the weld, remove the label and reweld.

2. Do a confined space entry requiring attendance of safety team, gas checks, standby extraction persons, forced ventilation blah blah blah.

All because the spec' said pipework must be clean inside prior to shipping.

Once that NCR was entered in the system it could not be deleted and had to have proof of clearance.

I asked the question if your 'engineer' saw the lable prior to start of welding why didn't he mention it.

Not his job.

And I nearly lost mine

[BritManToo]

6 minutes ago, jimster said:

That's what I thought, so what I was told is correct.

 

Not everyone is good at languages or wants to learn a new one when they're older. In that sense, Thailand is better because as I mentioned, one can get by with just English and many locals start speaking to you in English assuming you can't speak Thai unless you make it clear that you can.

I've got to say, learning Spanish isn't that hard, even for the language challenged.

But the levels of danger in the countries is unacceptable IMHO, and everyone takes drugs.

[geisha]

Once the wonder of working in Thailand has worn off, and reality sets in, I can’t see for the life for me why any person would work in Thailand for such small wages. 

[melvinmelvin]

22 minutes ago, jimster said:

 

The other thing I was going to ask is the language issue.

 

I have learned to speak, read and write Thai fluently, but strictly speaking one could get by quite OK in Thailand just using English. This is made possible by the fact a large segment of the Thai population can speak at least some basic English, especially in tourist/expat areas where English is widely spoken, plus you have English language menus, signage etc. all over the country.

 

Brazil and South America in general strike me as places where there is hostility towards English and you can't readily find an English menu or a local who speaks English, nor is English found on road signs? It's like they assume you can understand their language just because it's written in the same Latin script as English is?

 

Do you need to learn Portuguese to live in Brazil or can you get by in English? What about other S. American countries? Do you absolutely need to learn Spanish because nothing is in English as I've been led to believe?

 

you can get by in Brazil with your Spanish

 

[jimster]

45 minutes ago, NightSky said:

Im suprized no one has already mentioned it. The survey by THAIVISA is sent out to its readers every 2 years by email..

 

It may simply mean less people are reading email, or less emails are reaching the inbox, or there are less readers on Thai Visa, or more readers are older now since Netflix arrived (example).

 

1400+ respondents is a good cohort but not a large enough slice of the expat community to make sweeping generalized claims that this is a true representation of the entire expat community. Its simply a small slice of Thai Visa readership who had time to respond and who actually saw the email / forum thread. 

Exactly. 1400 respondents out of anywhere from 100,000 to 250,000? expats living in Thailand does not give you good statistical power.

 

Of course there will be expats moving on - it actually used to be the case that when one moves to a foreign country as an expat, you only move temporarily, for say 2-3 years before moving on to somewhere else or back home. However, in the last decade or two more and more expats have turned into essentially permanent residents (even if they never get official PR status) with no intention of ever going home. I have met dozens and dozens such people and if you are part of the expat business networking scene, you'll see the same faces at their events every time you go - whether it's now or 10 years ago. There are newcomers that really only stay a couple of years and a small number that leave after many years of residence but the majority seem to be long-termers who have married locals, have children and don't want to leave.

[JAZZDOG]

8 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

First time in my life I have ever heard anyone say Brazil is safer than Thailand. I have friends who hire armed bodyguards in Brazil, the security situation is so bad. Never had an issue here, nor do I feel the need to constantly be looking over my shoulders for insane 14 year old kids with pistols. 

I have lived in Brazil for twenty years and the difference in there is the madness has a demographic and location. Here at least in Pattaya the madness is most everywhere from drunks, druggies and insanity on the roads. 

[melvinmelvin]

4 minutes ago, jimster said:

Exactly. 1400 respondents out of anywhere from 100,000 to 250,000? expats living in Thailand does not give you good statistical power.

 

Of course there will be expats moving on - it actually used to be the case that when one moves to a foreign country as an expat, you only move temporarily, for say 2-3 years before moving on to somewhere else or back home. However, in the last decade or two more and more expats have turned into essentially permanent residents (even if they never get official PR status) with no intention of ever going home. I have met dozens and dozens such people and if you are part of the expat business networking scene, you'll see the same faces at their events every time you go - whether it's now or 10 years ago. There are newcomers that really only stay a couple of years and a small number that leave after many years of residence but the majority seem to be long-termers who have married locals, have children and don't want to leave.

 

give  me a b,

1400 out of 100 000/200 000 is plenty enough for proper analysis

 

u can't know much about mathematics/statistics

 

 

[BritManToo]

40 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

After reading through the posts on this thread, I am wondering if I am in the same country.

1/ Just about every Thai I have met has been friendly.

2/ I have never been shaken down by a cop. The couple of times I have been fined, it was for valid infringements.

3/ While the Thai hunger for paper continues to bemuse me, by employing the right people officialdom can be navigated reasonably painlessly. If that's corrupt, tell someone who cares.

4/ Thailand is cheap. My cost of living here is one-third of what it would be in Australia.

5/  Thai laws on relationships, marriage and relationship breakdown are far more sensible than those in Western countries.

6/  I like Thai food. Done properly, it's healthier than many other cuisines.

7/  Thai women are like any other. They want commitment and support. Once that is given, and you have earned their trust, they will do almost anything for you.

 

It's easy to live here, which is why I find it difficult to understand the barrage of complaints. Perhaps my attitude is different.

 

 

1. Disagree, smiling doesn't equate to friendly\

2. Disagree, they will fine you, infringement or not.

3. Paying people off, I don't like bribery.

4. Agree, Thailand is cheaper than most 1st world countries.

5. Agree, here you can impregnate and walk away.

6. Disagree, full of MSG and sugar.

7. Half and half, You can pay them as much as you like for sex, but they will still cheat on you.

 

If you marry, easier to live in the Philippines or Vietnam.

 

[jimster]

16 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

You make some very good points. Thanks for the articulate summation. Been to Burma a few times, and do not need to return. The government and military there are heinous beyond belief. So is Suu Kyi. A real fraud. Been to Vietnam a few times, and will never return. Find most Viet people to be like cold fish. Very aloof, and some are even hostile. Gorgeous women, and great food. But, other than that, I despise communist governments, and all they represent, so would rather avoid lending my support to the govts. of Laos and Vietnam anyway. Crime in Cambodia is out of control. And the government is probably the most murderous and thieving of all of the SE Asian nations. Hun Sen is a serial killing despot multi billionaire thief. No thanks. 

True. I was interrogated once for going to Muse, a town in Shan State on the Chinese border which according to their Ministry of Hotels and Tourism website was open but the official there kept interrupting me and acted quite rude and belligerent, finally he let me stay with the proviso I'm not to cross into China (wasn't even intending on doing so) and that I must report back to him on the way back, which I did. Otherwise I quite like Myanmar, especially the south-east near the Thai border, but only because I like traditional cultures and lifestyles and (I can live without KFCs and McDonalds) and luckily most of eastern Myanmar has finally found peace. However, there is still a sense of tenseness in the air as the peace seems fragile. Religious tensions are rife, with many Buddhists refusing to live next to Muslims and vice versa. Despite opening up, it seems that Myanmar's progress has stalled in recent times; investors are deciding it's still too risky and tourist numbers are not increasing like during the initial spike from 2011 to 2014. There are still too many vestiges of the old military regime - until the checkpoints, the paranoia, the unpredictable violence in some areas and restricted areas disappear, traveling in many parts of the country will still be quite an unpleasant experience for many.

 

Cambodia seems similar to Thailand at first glance, but as you say crime is rampant, with Sihanoukville after dark being particularly dodgy while everything else is just a worse version of what you get in Thailand with the single exception of tourist restaurants and hotels in Siem Reap and Phnom Penh, which are decent.

[jimster]

10 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

give  me a b,

1400 out of 100 000/200 000 is plenty enough for proper analysis

 

u can't know much about mathematics/statistics

 

 

It seems like you don't know anything about statistics. 1400 is a small number, especially if it is a representative sample of possibly 250,000. 10,000 I would take as a good representation but 1400 mostly TV readers, nope.