Less Western Expats arriving than ever before and a significant fall in working Western expats now in Thailand

[jimster]

On 8/3/2018 at 4:08 PM, melvinmelvin said:

 

you need a course in statistics and sampling, 1400 is quite adequate

 

1400 out of 250,000 is not adequate enough. Imagine asking 14 people out of 2500 and then telling your audience they represent the views of the other 2486 people. It's not a large enough sample size. If there were only 2000 expats in total living in Thailand, then of course 1400 would be more than adequate. Not sure where you went to school, but it looks like you that needs a refresher course in statistics.

[jimster]

4 hours ago, AdamTheFarang said:

The GPS tracking and compulsory insurance.....enough said.

Neither has happened yet but if they do, you're right that would be scary, especially the former. I also read in the Bangkok Post an article from last November pertaining to GPS tracking of foreign cars entering the Kingdom starting in a few years time. However, I doubt that the deadline of the end of this year for the start of charging foreign cars for entry using an RFID chip (like Malaysia has confirmed it has/will do soon) will be met. I don't doubt that this plan could be rolled out in the next 10 years or so though.

[JAG]

6 hours ago, AdamTheFarang said:

Some do not like the Russians, some do not like the Chinese, the latter have taken over the tourist scene from the shopping centres to the snorkelling boats, just observe how many airlines with Chinese names I have never heard of arriving at Phuket even in the middle of the night, many places turning into too commercialised concrete messes, roads with crazy transit vans, roads with large black belching smoke full of Chinese, being caught in a 7/11 when a coach of Chinese arrive and having to wait in the queue to pay without earplugs in my ears, forever changing visa rules and I mean these change so often, more expensive fuelled by higher Baht,  expensive dive trips, too many Thais that think they know it all until you ask them where a country is clearly geography is high on their education system, many tourist spots used to be high end European destinations now they are low end Asian destinations and the two do not mix, what couple spending 15,000Baht a night want to walk outside their hotel and see Chinese spitting on the floor and shouting. Can't talk about the bars but driving past they seem very quiet the girls now with their faces on their new smart phone, Facebook etc than getting a punter how is that going to help their 1 year old in a farm in Isarn their relationship with their mother must be under stress, of course their are lower cost, more visa friendly Asian countries with great beaches, Temples there people more welcoming and less xenophobic just the fact that Thai use one word farang to class all foreigners says volumes. Again I am done with Thailand. Thank you and watch out in the country with the highest death rates in the world. Compare Thai New Year death rates to Western New Year death rates.......sobering......I forgot one last thing if you have an accident is a car it is always the foreigners fault eg you are parked and a Thai goes into your rear.......his reply might be "I would not have had an accident if you were not parked there" Version 2.0 of one more last thing the Thais lack of taking responsibility. 

And breathe: in, out, in, out...

Better now?

[rumak]

4 hours ago, Kerryd said:

And you wonder why so many "self taught" electricians end up getting electrocuted in this country.

actually,  i wonder why the guys i use don't have problems......but the guys you use do .

 

my daughter tell me stories about her friends in canada that have had bad experiences with contractors.

and they're licensed and charge 40 dollars an hour.  

 

guess no matter where you live you can find examples of terrible work.   seems that it depends on who You choose.

Sounds like you and Adam need to get together for some venting.  

[melvinmelvin]

23 minutes ago, jimster said:

1400 out of 250,000 is not adequate enough. Imagine asking 14 people out of 2500 and then telling your audience they represent the views of the other 2486 people. It's not a large enough sample size. If there were only 2000 expats in total living in Thailand, then of course 1400 would be more than adequate. Not sure where you went to school, but it looks like you that needs a refresher course in statistics.

 

as Burger King says, Have it your way

 

ain't gonna argue this really,

I know very well what I'm talking about, as opposed to those here who obviously know f*all about statistics and maths

 

if you just look around you a bit you will see that 1400/1500 is a quite common sample size, used in many parts of the world,

eg general election predictions, the composition of parliaments, the outcome of referenda

1400/1500 suffices where the total is 60 million (large countries in Europe) 300 million (the US)

of course, the prediction is not 100% accurate, its a prediction - but it is pretty good.

 

to those who said earlier that the 1400 sample here is skewed because they are all TV readers,

there are plenty of methods available to filter out noise caused by a skewed sample

and also methods that can be used to "straighten" out the skewed sample, when you know it is skewed.

 

And no, I do not need a refresher.

 

[suzannegoh]

26 minutes ago, jimster said:

1400 out of 250,000 is not adequate enough. Imagine asking 14 people out of 2500 and then telling your audience they represent the views of the other 2486 people. It's not a large enough sample size. If there were only 2000 expats in total living in Thailand, then of course 1400 would be more than adequate. Not sure where you went to school, but it looks like you that needs a refresher course in statistics.

Sample size is not the problem, the problem is that the is that the participants in the survey were not randomly selected from the expat community.  This is actually just a survey of people who are active enough on ThaiVisa to answer ThaiVisa surveys, and that pollution may not be typica of expats in Thailand.

[rumak]

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Medical plans are an American obsession, nobody in the rest of the world cares all that much.

i beg to differ.  I am an american and i don't give a hoot about medical plans .  ?

 

[jimster]

12 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

I hear hotels in Burma need a special license to rent their rooms to outsiders. Now that is really dumb. I just would not trust myself while being interrogated by a highly ignorant butthead military or police fool. I think I would end up insulting his mother or his manhood and get locked up in a filthy jail. Would rather avoid putting myself in that suituation. Besides having been there twice, I feel like I have seen as much as I need to see. Too many other places to explore, that do not have such ignorant, blood thirsty, racist, nasty, insular governments or armies. No thanks.  

Fair enough. You make some good points. Yes indeed a special license is needed to rent rooms to foreigners. In the aftermath of the tourism boom, there weren't enough rooms to keep up with demand so many hotels around Myanmar, mostly cheaper ones, that were able to host foreigners in the first couple of years since tourism started booming in 2011 are now "Burmese only" since last year or this year. Did these hotels not have "foreigner licenses" to begin with or were they revoked? Strange thing...why not fix this problem before letting in the hordes of tourists? Now you've got a situation where a backpacker who traveled to Myanmar in 2013 and stayed at xx hotel in Myawaddy or Hpa-an or wherever comes back in 2018 to see the country again, wants to stay at the same place and is told "sorry sir, no foreigners". "But i stayed here back in 2013!" "Not anymore sir, only Burmese now!" 

 

Seems very backward to me, rather than just eliminating the ridiculous law governing licenses for foreigners.

 

However, Myanmar/Burma is not the only country that does this. Vietnam has a similar law, though unlike in Myanmar, it applies to very few hotels. The vast majority can accept foreigners, including those in rural and regional areas. Ditto for China, although there it depends on the city/town/region. In some towns/cities, practically all hotels accept foreigners, in others, like those rarely visited by foreigners and in sensitive areas, almost none do.

[Jimbo53]

On 8/2/2018 at 12:38 PM, AdamTheFarang said:

The facts you state would be enough to put off most successful people. For example in Europe you can work in any 28 countries so if you like snow to the hot beach it's all there, you can own your own business not have to have strangers having shares, stay forever and even become a citizen no stress of Visa Runs, Applications etc Thailand is 50 years behind and with Asean will eventually have to open up. Yes and then if you say something debatable about a company have the threat of jail under the Computer Crimes Act like Alan at PhuketWan went through. Then you might get wacked if you upset the wrong people...................I am done with Thailand.........

Lived there for almost 13 years..moved back to the UK a year ago..no more of the BS..like a breath of fresh air!

[moontang]

5 minutes ago, Jimbo53 said:

Lived there for almost 13 years..moved back to the UK a year ago..no more of the BS..like a breath of fresh air!

as long as you don't insult Islam; you should be fine..and don't forget the TV Tax.

[janclaes47]

On 8/2/2018 at 6:38 PM, AdamTheFarang said:

The facts you state would be enough to put off most successful people. For example in Europe you can work in any 28 countries so if you like snow to the hot beach it's all there, you can own your own business not have to have strangers having shares, stay forever and even become a citizen no stress of Visa Runs, Applications etc Thailand is 50 years behind and with Asean will eventually have to open up. Yes and then if you say something debatable about a company have the threat of jail under the Computer Crimes Act like Alan at PhuketWan went through. Then you might get wacked if you upset the wrong people...................I am done with Thailand.........

 

Not sure why you all get so much upset about not being able to work here.

 

I arrived here in 94 at the age of 35, and at immigration they slammed a stamp in my passport that said " prohibited to work".

 

I looked at it for a moment, and then realised I just arrived in heaven, and they wouldn't get me out of here with 2 horses pulling at me.

[mommysboy]

I dare say the survey is not perfect, but it does correspond with what I see happening in my own life.  

[AdamTheFarang]

1 hour ago, janclaes47 said:

 

Not sure why you all get so much upset about not being able to work here.

 

I arrived here in 94 at the age of 35, and at immigration they slammed a stamp in my passport that said " prohibited to work".

 

I looked at it for a moment, and then realised I just arrived in heaven, and they wouldn't get me out of here with 2 horses pulling at me.

Not everyone has income from overseas..........

[fusion58]

On 8/3/2018 at 2:11 PM, tropo said:

Just in an attempt to alleviate your obvious distress... "fewer" will probably disappear from the English language sometime in the near future.

 

Remember that when you see "10 items or less" at the supermarket express lane instead of "10 items or fewer"... or perhaps "less promising results" instead of "fewer promising results". "fewer" is fast becoming a matter of stylistic choice rather than necessity.

 

Languages evolve - deal with it.

"Less promising results."

 

"Fewer promising results."

 

Two different phrases with two different meanings, i.e., not interchangeable; ergo, not a "stylistic choice."

[bkk6060]

14 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Medical plans are an American obsession, nobody in the rest of the world cares all that much.

As lack of adequate pensions and funds seems to be a Brit obsession.

I guess every place has them. ?

 

[LomSak27]

Looks like the Thai 's unofficial/official program from post 1997 is working great. . 

[rumak]

8 hours ago, Jimbo53 said:

Lived there for almost 13 years..moved back to the UK a year ago..no more of the BS..like a breath of fresh air!

13 years ??   wow,  sure took you a long time to move back !   must have been a tortuous 13 years....

[rodney earl]

I can fully understand what you have said and I would do the same but I cannot (unfortunately) maybe later.

[overherebc]

48 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

As lack of adequate pensions and funds seems to be a Brit obsession.

I guess every place has them. ?

 

If I was given a choice of UK or USA to fall over and break my leg I know for sure which country I would pick to do it in.

[bkk6060]

56 minutes ago, overherebc said:

If I was given a choice of UK or USA to fall over and break my leg I know for sure which country I would pick to do it in.

And if I was given the choice of having an outstanding lifetime pension, I know which country I would choose.

[overherebc]

2 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

And if I was given the choice of having an outstanding lifetime pension, I know which country I would choose.

Organise things properly during your working life and pension plans are not a problem in UK.

Sitting on your butt all your life and relying on any government pension to look after you is, let's call it,  shortsighted.

Health care for the elderly in UK is not that bad, a bit like planes, you only hear about the ones that crash. 

A friend in UK just had a triple by-pass emergency operation and they are not going to be paying for it every month for the rest of their life.

[vinegarbase]

1 hour ago, rumak said:

13 years ??   wow,  sure took you a long time to move back !   must have been a tortuous 13 years....

You obviously forgot that Thailand USED TO be a nice place to come. It's only been the last 5 years or so that it has slowly gotten more miserable. 

[lapamita]

30yr ago i came it was a paradise, incl excl. chnages tomake money in export,and for peoplelike adventures in thailand too

 

20yr ago it was the excellent place for making money and party.the combination of both was a dream

 

10 yr ago the things start to chnage,a slowly but steady process

 

today , its all changed, doing buissenes ,no excotic paradies more,i would say all changed from enviromental  up to the people,and exceot the infrastructure, all other go worse. Paty time over

 

Many time , i talk with friends, if i would be younger, or only was in thailand 2 or 3 year..i would levae as soon as possible.

 

but after 31yr and beomming older..where to go??

 

all world is changing.

 

i vsit a lot in the last 6yrs, to find an alternativ. Inmy age, anty other asian country is no alternativ. back to europe ,without working to board. I found an island, with very high living quality (living quality for me means things y cant buy for money like air,water,nature), but poorer living standards (for me standrad means things you can buy for money like internet,fflats consumer goods)..i am not ready for an island.

 

so inmy case cant find an alternativ... if i would be still under 40 .. yes i would say swiss, if i fed up from all the world, the thiny island would fit me....

[rumak]

47 minutes ago, vinegarbase said:

You obviously forgot that Thailand USED TO be a nice place to come. It's only been the last 5 years or so that it has slowly gotten more miserable. 

ok, you wanna take a piss at old rumak.  no problem.   but i have been here for almost 30 years and the fact that there is internet everywhere now sure makes life easier .  The only thing that gets more miserable is the years that keep adding to MY age.   I don't think you forget...because its obvious you

don't realize that things have changed ALL OVER THE WORLD.   

And didn't your parents even complain that things weren't the same as when they were young?

 

[rumak]

52 minutes ago, lapamita said:

30yr ago i came it was a paradise, incl excl. chnages tomake money in export,and for peoplelike adventures in thailand too

 

20yr ago it was the excellent place for making money and party.the combination of both was a dream

 

10 yr ago the things start to chnage,a slowly but steady process

 

today , its all changed, doing buissenes ,no excotic paradies more,i would say all changed from enviromental  up to the people,and exceot the infrastructure, all other go worse. Paty time over

 

Many time , i talk with friends, if i would be younger, or only was in thailand 2 or 3 year..i would levae as soon as possible.

 

but after 31yr and beomming older..where to go??

 

all world is changing.

 

i vsit a lot in the last 6yrs, to find an alternativ. Inmy age, anty other asian country is no alternativ. back to europe ,without working to board. I found an island, with very high living quality (living quality for me means things y cant buy for money like air,water,nature), but poorer living standards (for me standrad means things you can buy for money like internet,fflats consumer goods)..i am not ready for an island.

 

so inmy case cant find an alternativ... if i would be still under 40 .. yes i would say swiss, if i fed up from all the world, the thiny island would fit me....

all the world is changing.   and no more so than WE are changing.   Getting older presents challenges,

ain't fun i'm afraid.   As in anything, some adapt better than others.   There is still some beauty....

[JAG]

22 hours ago, Kerryd said:

I agree and English is a prime example of a language that has evolved. Quite rapidly in fact.
 If anyone were to try and recite Shakespeare (1564-1616 AD) in the "Early Modern English" it was originally written in, people would have a hard time understanding it as the language has evolved considerably since his time.
"MACBETH
So is he mine; and in such bloody distance,
That every minute of his being thrusts
Against my near’st of life: and though I could
With barefaced power sweep him from my sight
And bid my will avouch it, yet I must not,"

And that is considerably easier to understand than the "Middle English" that preceded "Early Modern English".
From the Cantebury Tales written by Chaucer (1343-1400 AD):
"Ye goon to Canterbury—God yow speede, 

The blisful martir quite yow youre meede! 

And wel I woot, as ye goon by the weye, 

Ye shapen yow to talen and to pleye; 

For trewely confort ne myrthe is noon 

To ride by the weye doumb as a stoon; "

Quite a bit of difference in the little over 200 years that separates Chaucer from Shakespeare.

Fascinating - memories of A level English studies in the mid 1970s.

 

Mind you, it does occur to me that Chaucerian English is not yet dead, some of the more enthusiastic posts eminating from the coastal resorts South East of Bangkok are often written in it! 

[spidermike007]

22 hours ago, Kerryd said:

Some people seem to be under the misconception that: 
A) all expats are from UK, and
B) they could all live happily back in the UK on their pensions but may have to leave Thailand because the exchange rate to the GBP has gone down.

 

Well, not all expats are from the UK. 

 

And seriously, people actually think that expats (from the UK) are leaving because they can't afford to live in Thailand anymore, but can somehow afford to live in the UK where I'm sure the cost of living is considerably higher than it is in Thailand ?
I seriously doubt that.

The people that are griping are the ones who can barely afford to live here and know that going "home" would be even worse. I'm guessing that more than a few are struggling to get by on pensions of 400 GBP or less (just over 17,000 Baht at today's rates). When the rate was around 54 baht to the Pound that same 400 GBP would have been worth just over 21,000 baht.
Yes, when you are living on the sharp edge of a knife, 4,000 baht a month can make a huge difference, but back in the UK, 400 GBP will still be 400 GBP and the cost of living rarely ever goes down.

 

But I doubt that someone's quality of life would be that much better living in the UK on the same amount of money.

Having a quick glance at some "Cost of Living" indices and I find these numbers:
 

Indices Difference
Consumer Prices in Thailand are 33.02% lower than in United Kingdom
Consumer Prices Including Rent in Thailand are 36.58% lower than in United Kingdom
Rent Prices in Thailand are 45.10% lower than in United Kingdom
Restaurant Prices in Thailand are 67.95% lower than in United Kingdom
Groceries Prices in Thailand are 10.87% lower than in United Kingdom
Local Purchasing Power in Thailand is 61.32% lower than in United Kingdom

On another site, they compare the cost of living vs the average wages to determine the cost of living compared to the USA. The UK comes in at 102.2 on the index, meaning it is about 2.2% more expensive to live in the UK than it is in the USA.
Thailand comes in at 54, meaning it is about 46% cheaper to live in Thailand than the USA which, of course, means it is even cheaper than the UK.

Another site compares average prices for different things like clothing, entertainment, housing, transportation and so on, using data submitted by expats living in the target cities. Using their site, they calculate that living in London would be 91% more expensive than living in Bangkok.
 

Cost of living in London, United Kingdom compared toBangkok, Thailand

How much money will you need in London? 
Find out with your own Salary Calculation.

 

TOTAL				+ 91%
Food				+ 42%
Housing				+ 163%
Clothes				- 16%
Transportation				+ 100%
Personal Care				+ 86%
Entertainment				+ 68%

These prices were last updated 44 minutes ago. Exchange rate: 43.387 THB / GBP

This comparison is based on abundant and consistent data. It is based on 6,828 prices entered by 1,492 different people.

Do you live in Bangkok?We need your help!

 

What is the price of

Internet connection 300 Mbps

in Bangkok?

1 month

 ฿

 

or you can also improve all the other prices in Bangkok

or you can even improve all the prices in London

Cost of living inLondon (United Kingdom) is 91% more expensive thanin Bangkok (Thailand)

I'm a little suspicion of their calculations though as I don't see how it is cheaper to buy clothes in the UK than it is in Thailand.

However, even with a massive change in the prices it seems pretty obvious that living in the UK would be considerably more expensive than in Thailand, without most of the benefits of living here (like the weather and the cute girls serving you your weekly small glass of draft Chang and treating you like the hansum man you always knew you were) !


 

Some of those numbers are rather skewed. Rent for example. Depends on where you live. In the Hua Hin area you can find a nice apartment for 10,000 baht a month. Or a nice house for 20,000 baht. In a smaller town here far less for a nice place. In a decent area of London or New York, or LA, or SF that house would cost $4,000 a month, or more. Even mid sized cities like Denver, or Seattle are $2,000 and up per month. 

 

Beer here at at bar? $2 and change. In LA it is $8 plus tax and tip, which brings it to $10 for a glass of beer. At a modest thai restaurant in LA, which does not serve great food, a three course meal, with tax and tip (30%!!!) is about $40-75. Here I can get a better meal for $10. Alot of the food is cheaper here, and so much better. Fresher. Healthier. Same with transport. Even plane flights domestically are a fraction of the cost as in the US. A flight from Bangkok to Udon Thani. $30 or so. In the US? LA to SF is now $200 round trip. And the US airlines are terrible. And most charge extra even for a carry on bag now. $50 round trip for a small carry on or checked bag! Or more. No inflation/ Pure BS. Stupid prices. Hotels are far cheaper. In the US I spend $130 for a crappy motel room, in California these days. In NY, it is hard to get a decent room for $200. I can get a great room, in a very nice four star hotel in Bangkok for $60. Elsewhere even less. If you are single a bit of TLC costs several hundred in the US. And a bad attitude to go along with it. Here? Everything there is astonishingly expensive. Inflation is rampant in the US, despite what the charlatans like to tell us. 

 

Some food is cheaper there. And wine and booze alot cheaper and alot better. But, I spend a fraction of what I need to spend daily here, compared to the US.

 

From my point of view, the quality of life here is infinitely higher than in the US.

[BritManToo]

4 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

As lack of adequate pensions and funds seems to be a Brit obsession.

I guess every place has them. ?

 

I'm OK with what I've got thanks.

No state pension complaints from me.

[kwilco]

22 hours ago, Kerryd said:

Some people seem to be under the misconception that: 
A) all expats are from UK, and
B) they could all live happily back in the UK on their pensions but may have to leave Thailand because the exchange rate to the GBP has gone down.

 

Well, not all expats are from the UK. 

 

And seriously, people actually think that expats (from the UK) are leaving because they can't afford to live in Thailand anymore, but can somehow afford to live in the UK where I'm sure the cost of living is considerably higher than it is in Thailand ?
I seriously doubt that.

The people that are griping are the ones who can barely afford to live here and know that going "home" would be even worse. I'm guessing that more than a few are struggling to get by on pensions of 400 GBP or less (just over 17,000 Baht at today's rates). When the rate was around 54 baht to the Pound that same 400 GBP would have been worth just over 21,000 baht.
Yes, when you are living on the sharp edge of a knife, 4,000 baht a month can make a huge difference, but back in the UK, 400 GBP will still be 400 GBP and the cost of living rarely ever goes down.

 

But I doubt that someone's quality of life would be that much better living in the UK on the same amount of money.

Having a quick glance at some "Cost of Living" indices and I find these numbers:
 

Indices Difference
Consumer Prices in Thailand are 33.02% lower than in United Kingdom
Consumer Prices Including Rent in Thailand are 36.58% lower than in United Kingdom
Rent Prices in Thailand are 45.10% lower than in United Kingdom
Restaurant Prices in Thailand are 67.95% lower than in United Kingdom
Groceries Prices in Thailand are 10.87% lower than in United Kingdom
Local Purchasing Power in Thailand is 61.32% lower than in United Kingdom

On another site, they compare the cost of living vs the average wages to determine the cost of living compared to the USA. The UK comes in at 102.2 on the index, meaning it is about 2.2% more expensive to live in the UK than it is in the USA.
Thailand comes in at 54, meaning it is about 46% cheaper to live in Thailand than the USA which, of course, means it is even cheaper than the UK.

Another site compares average prices for different things like clothing, entertainment, housing, transportation and so on, using data submitted by expats living in the target cities. Using their site, they calculate that living in London would be 91% more expensive than living in Bangkok.
 

Cost of living in London, United Kingdom compared toBangkok, Thailand

How much money will you need in London? 
Find out with your own Salary Calculation.

 

TOTAL				+ 91%
Food				+ 42%
Housing				+ 163%
Clothes				- 16%
Transportation				+ 100%
Personal Care				+ 86%
Entertainment				+ 68%

These prices were last updated 44 minutes ago. Exchange rate: 43.387 THB / GBP

This comparison is based on abundant and consistent data. It is based on 6,828 prices entered by 1,492 different people.

Do you live in Bangkok?We need your help!

 

What is the price of

Internet connection 300 Mbps

in Bangkok?

1 month

 ฿

 

or you can also improve all the other prices in Bangkok

or you can even improve all the prices in London

Cost of living inLondon (United Kingdom) is 91% more expensive thanin Bangkok (Thailand)

I'm a little suspicion of their calculations though as I don't see how it is cheaper to buy clothes in the UK than it is in Thailand.

However, even with a massive change in the prices it seems pretty obvious that living in the UK would be considerably more expensive than in Thailand, without most of the benefits of living here (like the weather and the cute girls serving you your weekly small glass of draft Chang and treating you like the hansum man you always knew you were) !


 

For the older UK expat the single most important factirthing is healthcarea............ you seem to ignore that completely.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, rumak said:

ok, you wanna take a piss at old rumak.  no problem.   but i have been here for almost 30 years and the fact that there is internet everywhere now sure makes life easier .  The only thing that gets more miserable is the years that keep adding to MY age.   I don't think you forget...because its obvious you

don't realize that things have changed ALL OVER THE WORLD.   

And didn't your parents even complain that things weren't the same as when they were young?

 

Gotta agree, was 8 years in Thailand, 2 years in the UK, now 2 months in Thailand.

I enjoy different things about both places, specifically, women and beer in Thailand, cannabis and cider in the UK.