"We are not coming back" : Tourists give the thumbs down to Khao San Road changes

[mommysboy]

5 hours ago, sanemax said:

They can still come to Thailand and visit KSR and other places..............there just wont be as many stalls on KSR .

   LOL. its just a few stalls from one road that have been removed , its not such a big deal

A few stalls.....are you sure?

[cliveshep]

For tourists from places like the UK Thailand was unique, markets, street food, elephants and tigers and monkeys you could get up close and personal with. Taking a morning train from Don Mueang through Bangkok and out the other side might be hot and uncomfortable, but as an experience the super fast air-conditioned morning commuter train from Farnborough to Waterloo could never compete.

 

River buses through London just don't have the potential to excite as do those on the Chao Praya, floating markets son 't exist in Western countries. If Thailand's dippy leaders cannot see the attraction of retaining some of the olde-world 3rd world charm that they are destroying for ever then they are plain moronic. The loss of Fort Marakan is another example of stupid knee-jerk actions to "modernise" yet is is just those 3rd world sights that people come to see and experience. Thailand WAS unique, but this Junta and their mates are rapidly turning it into same-oh same-oh up-market boring environment with endless malls and no life or traditional culture. 

 

Tourists will catch on, other places still have exciting old-fashioned cultures, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam have everything Thailand's short-sighted administration is discarding and the focus will shift to those places, without the Health and Safety and Political Correctness and Visa refusals and difficulties and restrictions that have killed off UK tourism and that Thailand is now emulating.

[MaxYakov]

2 hours ago, hottrader77 said:

were you a headmnaster in a former life me and mates are all laughing at you ha ha 

Simply paid attention in what was pretty good English class and teachers. What's your excuse?

I don't like to see the English language murdered. Get enough of that from the Thais.

[The manic]

On 8/12/2018 at 2:36 AM, Number 6 said:

What an assinine remark. I was pointing out an issue I am certain every Thai that walks through these areas thinks exactly the same thing. It's unhygienic. This is central Bangkok, not nakon nowhere.

 

Don't like it leave, yeah despite a job in which 800 students depend on me, a wife of nearly ten years and in the region over three coups and nearly three decades. What a rube.

 

Been here for 10 miserable, angry, unhappy years! I doubt 800 hundred students depend on you alone. Teachers are replaceable. However, the Thai families of the Thai traders do depend on the incomes of the displaced traders.

[BuckleUp]

On 8/12/2018 at 11:44 AM, mommysboy said:

And this happens does it?  Do you live in Khao San?

I stay away from tourist areas like the plague. Neither the huddled masses of tourists nor money hungry sellers impress me.

[JennaBurrows]

On 8/9/2018 at 1:34 AM, JennaBurrows said:

I took some photos : 

 

This is on Sukhumvit, on the road from Nana to Soi Cowboy at around 1am. This area was once brimming with street food, i signed a long rent for an appartment in the area because i just loved the lively scene back in 2016 (before the ban). Yes the pavements have been reclaimed - reclaimed back as a car park for cars to park. Try moving them in an emergency ! This area is now dead. 

 

 

 

Side Soi on Sukhumvit - another area that was bristling with street food and vendors. Now a car park for motorbikes. The best street food i had was on this area. The lady cooked freshly made burgers every evening, and a great breakfast (at night!) - it was fresh and amazing to sit out and eat. That's the type of experience that made me want to leave the UK and stay and invest in Bangkok. The food has gone, now we have parked motorbikes. 

 

 

 

Now the vendors have been cleared, cars and bikes just drive on pavements. 

 

 

 

People don't come to Bangkok for pavements. They come to admire the culture, the street culture, street food, street markets, temples, and that's about it. Thailand doesn't have any diverse tourist attractions like Singapore - a country that has invested TRILLIONS of US dollars into it's tourism industry, be it Sentosa Island, Marina Bay, etc yet still doesn't get the same volume of visitors as Bangkok, which has spent very little on any man made tourist attractions. 

 

Those celebrating Singapore - i wonder what you are doing in Thailand? Just more bitter old aged expats.

[JennaBurrows]

People trying to compare Singapore to Thailand really do my head in. They have little understand of the differences between the two countries, it's history and it's economy. 

 

Firstly, Singapore is not reliant on tourism for the country to prosper. It's economy is largely built on it's financial services, along with London, New York, Hong Kong and Tokyo it's a mammoth finance city. It was able to use it's colonial laws as a base to become a huge financial hub, free from corruption and a strong law system that allowed business to feel to safe to invest. 

 

Thailand on the other hand is reliant of around 20% of it's GDP on tourism. You take away that 20% and you really begin to destroy the economy. You mess around with 20% at your economy at your peril. You don't allow junior ministers and those with nothing to do to decree banning orders to everything and anything that makes Thailand so loved by the masses. If the price of such a mass of wealth into your country is a few vendors taking up pavements then that's the small price you sometimes have to take.

 

So when you have leaders, expats, and general idiots saying 'Oh look Singapore sanitized the city and made it boring, so it's completely okay for Thailand to do the same' are really talking utter nonsense. 

 

Secondly, the gentrification of Singapore is largely seen as a mistake. It's the same with China. Xi Jinping of China has wrote many a time about the mistakes the country made in the 90's with it's gentrification process, ruining the historical legacies of cities for souless buildings. There's a reason why so many Chinese citizens leave China to go abroad for their thrills - there own cities are horrendous gentrified souless bowls. It's only now, like Singapore, the Chinese goverment is spending huge amounts in improving it's own cities - Shanghai Disneyland (joint venture with the state and Disney), Universal Beijing, and other huge astronomical spends on it's cities. 

 

I further degree that by the early millenium Singapore was aware it had made mistakes, and ventured out on a large scale programme that no more areas could gentrified or torn down, it listed buildings for protection, etc. It was aware it's workforce was miserable, it was aware investors weren't happy being in the country that was without soul. So it spent trillions on improving it's life for it's citizens, for investors to enjoy the city and it relaxed rules. 

 

Massive spends on Sentosa Island by the state, including golf courses, Universal Singapore, huge spends on Marina Bay Sands, and the entire Marina Bay area, bought Forumula 1 into Singapore, etc - these were all state sponsored programmes. 

 

Thailand simply doesn't have financial services , industry, to even plan to complete with Singapore, or even attempt to copy Singapore. But what Thailand does have is a unique culture, unique street food scene that is celebrated the world over, and a spirit and vibe to it's cities like Bangkok that cannot be matched. 

 

Thailand's huge success in tourism (with very little spend) on natural resources should be celebrated the world over as a successful for world cities to move forward with individuality, and not turn every single city into another generic metropolis.

Edited August 13, 2018 by JennaBurrows

[The manic]

27 minutes ago, JennaBurrows said:

 

 

People don't come to Bangkok for pavements. They come to admire the culture, the street culture, street food, street markets, temples, and that's about it. Thailand doesn't have any diverse tourist attractions like Singapore - a country that has invested TRILLIONS of US dollars into it's tourism industry, be it Sentosa Island, Marina Bay, etc yet still doesn't get the same volume of visitors as Bangkok, which has spent very little on any man made tourist attractions. 

 

Those celebrating Singapore - i wonder what you are doing in Thailand? Just more bitter old aged expats.

Well said. The authorities have a sinister plan to dehumanize Thai cities. The destruction of Lower Suk is a tragedy on so many levels. A disgrace. 

[JennaBurrows]

11 minutes ago, The manic said:

Well said. The authorities have a sinister plan to dehumanize Thai cities. The destruction of Lower Suk is a tragedy on so many levels. A disgrace. 

 

 

The irony being i don't believe they are doing it deliberately. I just believe those in power at the moment are taking their queues from the military. And i don't believe the military have any iota of understand of what tourism from Europe or China want in Thailand - infact they probably look at their own chaotic, often dirty cities and wonder why on earth any tourist would come there. It's an asian infliction to look down upon itself, the grass is always greener somewhere else. 

 

So when a military official is saying they want order, everything tidy, neat, clean, and orderly - perhaps innocently and without knowing the consquences of their requests -  the officials at the bottom end (like the BMA ) are taking their queus from those edicts. They are then doing what they can to impress those who have put them undemocratically in charge - and inacting insane measures that is fundamentally changing the landscape of the city, with it's consquences being they are destroying the heartbeat of the city, sanitizing it, and long term wise hurting tourism. When a country is reliant on 20% of it's GDP from tourism, sometimes a few pavements blocked up is the small price you pay. 

 

I don't believe the military set out to destroy tourism. But at heart, they don't fundamentally understand what attracts so many millions to it's country, and to a city like Bangkok. And when you don't understand, it's often to best leave it alone (especially if it's continue to grow) rather than attempt to interfere and destroy it. 

 

And once again i say, you mess around with 20% of your economy (which is what tourism is worth to Thailand) at your peril. 

Edited August 13, 2018 by JennaBurrows

[The manic]

On 8/12/2018 at 4:53 AM, sanemax said:

Its progress , things move on and things change .

I have quite a few friends on facebook , from all over the World , in their 40's

And many are all saying the same thing .

  "Look, they are knocking down the buildings and building new ones , I dont like these changes , it used to be so much better , why cant they just leave things the way they were"

 

It is not progress.  It's a repressive, regressive move in in the nebulous name of order! Imposed by unelected,  not too bright ,greedy corrupt authorities who protect rich and powerful criminals and persecute the poor and vunerable.  The destruction of artistic communities, small businesses,  street food areas and markets, pop up bars etc is not progress. It is cultural vandalism and commercial suicide.

[Small Joke]

On 8/12/2018 at 11:59 AM, mommysboy said:

“Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.”

― H.L. Mencken,

Or high. 

[Nyezhov]

2 hours ago, JennaBurrows said:

 

 

People don't come to Bangkok for pavements. They come to admire the culture, the street culture, street food, street markets, temples, and that's about it. Thailand doesn't have any diverse tourist attractions like Singapore - a country that has invested TRILLIONS of US dollars into it's tourism industry, be it Sentosa Island, Marina Bay, etc yet still doesn't get the same volume of visitors as Bangkok, which has spent very little on any man made tourist attractions. 

 

Those celebrating Singapore - i wonder what you are doing in Thailand? Just more bitter old aged expats.

Tourists don't go to lower Suk for culture, temples, or overpriced tourist street food or Ayrabs selling dildos....they go there for P**sy. Clear the sidewalks and it's faster for them to walk from Soi cowboy to Nana.

 

Lower Suk has always been a sewer. In 20 years, the only places I personally ever ate at was the old Chinese joint near Thermae, or Foodland. If I want street food, I can find it anywhere. If I want sleaze, that's where I go. Id rather have clear streets to walk.....

 

Asian sextourists prefer order. Go to Tokyo and see.

 

You liked the "vibrant scene"? Hmmmm.

Edited August 13, 2018 by Nyezhov

[JennaBurrows]

27 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Tourists don't go to lower Suk for culture, temples, or overpriced tourist street food or Ayrabs selling dildos....they go there for P**sy. Clear the sidewalks and it's faster for them to walk from Soi cowboy to Nana.

 

Lower Suk has always been a sewer. In 20 years, the only places I personally ever ate at was the old Chinese joint near Thermae, or Foodland. If I want street food, I can find it anywhere. If I want sleaze, that's where I go. Id rather have clear streets to walk.....

 

Asian sextourists prefer order. Go to Tokyo and see.

 

You liked the "vibrant scene"? Hmmmm.

 

Utter nonsense you are on full scale trolling mode now. 

 

Lower Sukhumvit is one of thee most popular areas for tourists to stay in Bangkok. It's houses some of the most expensive real estate in Bangkok, so your theory it's a shit hole is a tad lost. It's an area with the most concentration of hotels, and appartments in most of Bangkok. Sky Train access, Terminal 21 Mall, international concentration of restaurants. Aside from the two sex areas it also houses some great bars and clubs. 

 

The area has been destroyed, especially late night by removing the street vendors, street food and culture from the area. And when i say DESTROY i mean DESTORYED. The area was beeming with life well into the evening, enjoying a vibrant atmosphere, street food. 

 

As for your disparaging remarks regarding the sex industry in low Sukhumvit, whilst i do not condone it, i've seen it everywhere from Tokyo, Las Vegas, Paris, London, legalised brothels in Germany and Holland, etc - trust me Bangkok only appears sinful to those who haven't travelled the world. 

 

And Asian sex tourists prefer order? Don't talk stupid. You spoke to each individual one have you? Measured the sex tourism in Bangkok to Pattaya to Tokyo to London ? 

 

Edited August 13, 2018 by JennaBurrows

[Nyezhov]

2 hours ago, JennaBurrows said:

 

Utter nonsense you are on full scale trolling mode now. 

 

Lower Sukhumvit is one of thee most popular areas for tourists to stay in Bangkok. It's houses some of the most expensive real estate in Bangkok, so your theory it's a shit hole is a tad lost. It's an area with the most concentration of hotels, and appartments in most of Bangkok. Sky Train access, Terminal 21 Mall, international concentration of restaurants. Aside from the two sex areas it also houses some great bars and clubs. 

 

The area has been destroyed, especially late night by removing the street vendors, street food and culture from the area. And when i say DESTROY i mean DESTORYED. The area was beeming with life well into the evening, enjoying a vibrant atmosphere, street food. 

 

As for your disparaging remarks regarding the sex industry in low Sukhumvit, whilst i do not condone it, i've seen it everywhere from Tokyo, Las Vegas, Paris, London, legalised brothels in Germany and Holland, etc - trust me Bangkok only appears sinful to those who haven't travelled the world. 

 

And Asian sex tourists prefer order? Don't talk stupid. You spoke to each individual one have you? Measured the sex tourism in Bangkok to Pattaya to Tokyo to London ? 

 

55555...

 

We all know what the nighttime attraction of that area is, lets get real. Im not condemning it, just point out its sleazy. The internet whinging about efforts to clean up the area are the same sob stories I heard when the demolished the old Beer Garden.....hell I've heard real old timers whine about the old Thermae...

 

Lower Suk, up to Thermae, was one of the most annoying, sleaziest parts of Falang Land in existence. Hi rent district? Cuz thats where the hotels and shopping malls are. Thats where the tourists go. But the bulk of Bangkok tourists dont go there to monger. So at midnight on a Tuesday night, the folks down there are primarily either looking for a paid companion  or just enjoying watching the pervs cruise. Aint no holier than thou here Tovarisch, I've perved my way across Thailand and many other places you mention. Were you ever at the Hungry Duck in Moscow during the Yeltsin years? If not, I just OutMongered you. But I daresay its a lot more orderly on the Reeperbahn, and in Tokyo and legal besides, at least in Germany. Do we need to get into how the illegal sex industry breeds crime? Do you think that Arab guys selling fake Viagara on the streets is Thai culture? Or drunks puking at cart bars or fighting in the streets is vibrant? You think the food down there in the carts was good? Seriously? Why because some cute Isaan freelancers ate the noodles? You dont think that there are better places to eat in Bangkok?

 

Great Clubs? Really? For guys looking to grab some paid company, but me, if Im not looking for paid company (which some times I gleefully am) Ill go to Thong Lor or RCA for a vibrant nightlife and Im an old coot. 

 

I've enjoyed many a night down there, and have gutter crawled with the best of them but that doesnt change the fact that at night it was a circus. In fact, I don't think I have ever been past Terminal 21 down on Lower Suk during the day for years. Heck I used to live on the border of Ekkamai, I thought that the Burmese market streets in Phra Khanong were more Thai, vibrant and alive than Lower Suk at night. Of course, at 3am I was in bed, not hanging out in the vibrant nightlife of Lower Suk. The bottom line is that if you were down there at those FEW Sois at night, you were either walking past or looking for the hairy clam, or watching folks looking for the hairy clam or looking to profit or PREY on folks looking for the hairy clam.. Tell me what else is down there for your average tourist for a few days in Krung Thep? Oilys? BJ bars? Having some beers at a Falang bar? Thats Thai culture?  "Hey look, Petunia, Google says there is a spirit house outside this coffee shop called the Thermae, its 3 am lets go? Oh, Jocko, but the book says that area is full of ripoffs and ladyboys and Nigerians selling Kamagara. No Petunia, its OK, thats...Thai Culture!"

 

The whole area is a creature of the USA just like PatPong and Cowboy and both of those areas are far nicer. Times change. Sometimes, sexpats just have to forgoe the ability to pound down a few shots with their beloved for the evening, its all part of the game.

 

Folks whine about disorder. Folks whine about cleaning up disorder. But Thailand aint here for me and you, its here for them...their country, their rules. If they want to clean up their streets and I can't get an overpriced Pad Thai on the street around African Hookers, Ladyboys and touts, I guess Ill just head somewhere a little nicer. 

 

Their country, their rules. You dont like their rules, or the f*cked up way they do things, thats your right.

 

 

You want the all night noodles and falang oriented streets, go to Pattaya while that still lasts.

 

 

[lamyai3]

On 8/12/2018 at 8:38 PM, hottrader77 said:

were you a headmnaster in a former life me and mates are all laughing at you ha ha 

I read a comment in a thread somewhere the other day... "Grammar is for nerds, spelling is for terds"...

[lamyai3]

On 8/12/2018 at 10:37 PM, cliveshep said:

For tourists from places like the UK Thailand was unique, markets, street food,

So much so that major capitals like London are copying this type of model to revitalise their inner cities. From last year, a moo ping street vendor won an award, around about the same time that Bangkok was kicking all the vendors out. What a cock up!

 

Paul Ambrose, co-founder of KraPow LDN, said of the dish: “Street food is one of the great things about living in or visiting Thailand, and Moo Ping is delicious and ever-present. Any time of day or night you can find someone with a mobile charcoal BBQ cooking little sweet slivers of pork on bamboo skewers. Now, Londoners are enjoying the dish each week and discovering new flavours.”

https://www.standard.co.uk/go/london/restaurants/krapow-ldns-moo-ping-plate-wins-mylondondish-competition-a3616951.html

Edited August 14, 2018 by lamyai3

[lamyai3]

7 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

Tourists don't go to lower Suk for culture, temples, or overpriced tourist street food or Ayrabs selling dildos....they go there for P**sy. Clear the sidewalks and it's faster for them to walk from Soi cowboy to Nana

Not if you were hoping to pick up a dildo en route. Actually the street vendors were always the most colourful aspect of the area, turning a soulless walk with no architectural merit into something more vibrant and interesting. The absence of the street vendors does nothing more than draw attention to the drug dealers, hookers, and perplexingly the dildo vendors who seem to have had a free pass throughout. 

Edited August 14, 2018 by lamyai3

[lamyai3]

8 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

Lower Suk has always been a sewer. In 20 years, the only places I personally ever ate at was the old Chinese joint near Thermae, or Foodland. If I want street food, I can find it anywhere. If I want sleaze, that's where I go. Id rather have clear streets to walk.....

1. The last time I walked past the Chinese place you're talking about on the corner of soi 15 I saw a rat scurrying beneath one of the tables.

2. You can no longer find street food "anywhere" since last year. 

3. The purveyors of the sleaze you're craving easy pavement access to have always loved the street food. In any event, you can always cross the road, there's never been a proliferation of vendors on the other side, and you're on the fast route to Nana plaza. 

[Nyezhov]

32 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

Not if you were hoping to pick up a dildo en route. Actually the street vendors were always the most colourful aspect of the area, turning a soulless walk with no architectural merit into something more vibrant and interesting. The absence of the street vendors does nothing more than draw attention to the drug dealers, hookers, and perplexingly the dildo vendors who seem to have had a free pass throughout. 

I dont dispute that it was a colourful area, its just that hey, the place was sleazy. . Personally, I enjoyed the circus. I even bought my first obligatory Biah Sing shirt on lower Suk oh nigh 20 plus ago. But folks are going to be down there no matter how any vendors or lack thereof are due to the presence of the moist orchids scatttered about. And the Thais businesses shall adapt, as will the punters, nobody will starve. The rest of the tourists wont care since they dont go to that dis-architectured place.

 

Its no skin on my game, I may move out to Thonburi and roll over to Suk once a month then at about 10pm, find me a damsel at Thermae, room at the Room Shit, finish by 10:15 and back home on the BTS for some street food made by Thais for Thais.

 

If I want sleaze, Ill do my visa run in PP

 

 

[Nyezhov]

5 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

1. The last time I walked past the Chinese place you're talking about on the corner of soi 15 I saw a rat scurrying beneath one of the tables.

2. You can no longer find street food "anywhere" since last year. 

3. The purveyors of the sleaze you're craving easy pavement access to have always loved the street food. In any event, you can always cross the road, there's never been a proliferation of vendors on the other side, and you're on the fast route to Nana plaza. 

1. Great. Means the chicken fried rice is fresh ?

 

2. Really. No where? Not anywhere in the whole city? Are you sure?  ? ? 

 

3. They wont starve either. And I have walked the other side may times, there is a wonderful establishment down Soi 6 called Kasalong, try it.

 

 

[utalkin2me]

On 8/12/2018 at 1:23 AM, lamyai3 said:

Khaosan caters to much more than the dormitory backpacker. The contingent of smelly pierced deadlocked types is in a minority to the average person there, who looks just like a young person on a travel adventure. There's plenty of upscale "hipster chic" type accommodations and dining choices there with prices to match, along with all the usual gentrification (there's been Starbucks there for at least 15 years). Khaosan and the surrounding area also provide a microcosm of grassroots culture here, people can experience Thai massage, take cooking classes, buy ethnic handicrafts, arrange ongoing travel to more unusual places, find an enormous amount of literature in the bookstores on the whole region, and meet like minded people from all over the world. Where else in Bangkok fits that description? 

 

Anyway, the young people have spoken and given a big thumbs down to the changes round there. Bangkok has always been a major point of entry and hub city in Asia and this isn't going to change, so I hope you'll show the kids a warm welcome when they start venturing out into other parts of the city looking for more fun alternatives to hang out in. 

Even if we stipulate that the young people have spoken and given it a thumbs down, I am saying that is a blessing in disguise for them.

 

There are a lot better, cooler, more authentic, whatever you want to call it, experiences all around Bangkok. As I see it, staying on Khao San Road and spending half your time in bkk surrounded by other foreigners is not a very Thai experience. We can stipulate Thailand and Thai people is actually why people come here, can't we? 

[billd766]

On 8/13/2018 at 10:11 PM, JennaBurrows said:

 

 

The irony being i don't believe they are doing it deliberately. I just believe those in power at the moment are taking their queues from the military. And i don't believe the military have any iota of understand of what tourism from Europe or China want in Thailand - infact they probably look at their own chaotic, often dirty cities and wonder why on earth any tourist would come there. It's an asian infliction to look down upon itself, the grass is always greener somewhere else. 

 

So when a military official is saying they want order, everything tidy, neat, clean, and orderly - perhaps innocently and without knowing the consquences of their requests -  the officials at the bottom end (like the BMA ) are taking their queus from those edicts. They are then doing what they can to impress those who have put them undemocratically in charge - and inacting insane measures that is fundamentally changing the landscape of the city, with it's consquences being they are destroying the heartbeat of the city, sanitizing it, and long term wise hurting tourism. When a country is reliant on 20% of it's GDP from tourism, sometimes a few pavements blocked up is the small price you pay. 

 

I don't believe the military set out to destroy tourism. But at heart, they don't fundamentally understand what attracts so many millions to it's country, and to a city like Bangkok. And when you don't understand, it's often to best leave it alone (especially if it's continue to grow) rather than attempt to interfere and destroy it. 

 

And once again i say, you mess around with 20% of your economy (which is what tourism is worth to Thailand) at your peril. 

 

There is an old engineering maxim that basically says

 

"If it works, don't <deleted> with it."

 

If you do it will go to <deleted> and the stage beyond that is <deleted>.

 

That is when the real problems start.

[scorecard]

3 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

I dont dispute that it was a colourful area, its just that hey, the place was sleazy. . Personally, I enjoyed the circus. I even bought my first obligatory Biah Sing shirt on lower Suk oh nigh 20 plus ago. But folks are going to be down there no matter how any vendors or lack thereof are due to the presence of the moist orchids scatttered about. And the Thais businesses shall adapt, as will the punters, nobody will starve. The rest of the tourists wont care since they dont go to that dis-architectured place.

 

Its no skin on my game, I may move out to Thonburi and roll over to Suk once a month then at about 10pm, find me a damsel at Thermae, room at the Room Shit, finish by 10:15 and back home on the BTS for some street food made by Thais for Thais.

 

If I want sleaze, Ill do my visa run in PP

 

 

More, what do most Thais want? A very complex queston.

 

I have Thai friends and acquaintances who want development to bring Thailand into first world status, some want it for personal gain, others want to see a better quality of life for all Thais. 

 

80% of my bachelor students have never thought about the subject and most don't even know where Kao San Road is, but they are facebook experts, most of them have never been outside of Thailand and just assume every country in the world is just like Thailand. About 2 years back one Thai girl in another professors class (never been outside of Thailand) was insistent that Singapore people want Singapore to be a copy of Thailand because Thailand is so advanced, so successful and so professional!

 

On the other hand most of the other 20% have studied abroad for several years and want Thailand to quickly develop and lose it's current image. 

 

Ultimately, IMHO it's more important that Thailand and Kao San road be what Thai people want it to be?

 

 

[lamyai3]

1 hour ago, utalkin2me said:

Even if we stipulate that the young people have spoken and given it a thumbs down, I am saying that is a blessing in disguise for them.

 

There are a lot better, cooler, more authentic, whatever you want to call it, experiences all around Bangkok. As I see it, staying on Khao San Road and spending half your time in bkk surrounded by other foreigners is not a very Thai experience. We can stipulate Thailand and Thai people is actually why people come here, can't we? 

The problem is most of the comments supporting the crackdown on here are conflating two issues. First is the general question of street vendors being allowed to operate citywide, and second is a general distaste for backpackers, with many uncharitable comments saying Thailand doesn't need these types of tourists. The truth is they're still going to be coming here, so how does it serve anyone's argument to trample over their small area of home turf and encourage them to stay in other parts of the city?

 

Tourists and backpackers anywhere are often far more active than the long term residents, by definition they often plan more activities than the rest of us. My first trip to Thailand was 20 years ago and I used Khaosan as a base to explore the old town, go downriver and check out the main temples, arrange a day trip to Ayutthaya and another to the floating market, sampled local food and massages, and bought loads of stuff. It was always a great place to plan onward travel and find the cheapest tickets around the country and Southeast Asia. I even met my first Thai girlfriend down there. Having lived in several other parts of the city since then, I would in no way look down on my initial experiences of Bangkok as inauthentic. It was different sure, in your face and touristy in an independent traveller type of way. This is cool by itself - the youngsters are often travelling on a long term adventure, with no office job to return to, no fixed itinerary like the recent Chinese tour groups. This kind of travel is truly exciting to a young person, traditional package tourists back in the west are a bunch of squares in comparison.

 

Sure there's lots of cool neighbourhoods around the city and I have many favourites, but none of them especially depict the real Thailand. What does Thonglor or Ari represent of the real Thai culture? And given that most Thais speak such minimal English, what are the chances of a first time traveller wandering around the city with a phrasebook having any kind of meaningful experience at all? They're just going to be fodder for tuktuk drivers. Banglamphu is a kind of microcosm of the city and the country due to it's compact area, and is actually a pretty interesting area with some of the better historic architecture in the city - Khaosan road is the main street but it's also the least attractive and interesting one - Rambuttri and Chanasongkhram are much nicer.

 

Anyway, I think given the authorities inability to stick to a plan for more than 5 minutes, it'll be back to business as usual down there before too long, especially when they become aware the loss of kickbacks. 

[utalkin2me]

9 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

 

The problem is most of the comments supporting the crackdown on here are conflating two issues. First is the general question of street vendors being allowed to operate citywide, and second is a general distaste for backpackers, with many uncharitable comments saying Thailand doesn't need these types of tourists. The truth is they're still going to be coming here, so how does it serve anyone's argument to trample over their small area of home turf and encourage them to stay in other parts of the city?

 

Tourists and backpackers anywhere are often far more active than the long term residents, by definition they often plan more activities than the rest of us. My first trip to Thailand was 20 years ago and I used Khaosan as a base to explore the old town, go downriver and check out the main temples, arrange a day trip to Ayutthaya and another to the floating market, sampled local food and massages, and bought loads of stuff. It was always a great place to plan onward travel and find the cheapest tickets around the country and Southeast Asia. I even met my first Thai girlfriend down there. Having lived in several other parts of the city since then, I would in no way look down on my initial experiences of Bangkok as inauthentic. It was different sure, in your face and touristy in an independent traveller type of way. This is cool by itself - the youngsters are often travelling on a long term adventure, with no office job to return to, no fixed itinerary like the recent Chinese tour groups. This kind of travel is truly exciting to a young person, traditional package tourists back in the west are a bunch of squares in comparison.

 

Sure there's lots of cool neighbourhoods around the city and I have many favourites, but none of them especially depict the real Thailand. What does Thonglor or Ari represent of the real Thai culture? And given that most Thais speak such minimal English, what are the chances of a first time traveller wandering around the city with a phrasebook having any kind of meaningful experience at all? They're just going to be fodder for tuktuk drivers. Banglamphu is a kind of microcosm of the city and the country due to it's compact area, and is actually a pretty interesting area with some of the better historic architecture in the city - Khaosan road is the main street but it's also the least attractive and interesting one - Rambuttri and Chanasongkhram are much nicer.

 

Anyway, I think given the authorities inability to stick to a plan for more than 5 minutes, it'll be back to business as usual down there before too long, especially when they become aware the loss of kickbacks. 

I think the Khao San Road experience basically misses the entire point of traveling. You are absolutely right, to each their own. 

 

To me, KSR is the equivalent of traveling around the world to maybe learn a new language and culture, and then in actuality, when you arrive you end up sitting around with a group of foreigners speaking english. You can probably have a similar experience in your own country at a backpackers hostel. But if that is traveling to you, that is great i suppose, i would just recommend otherwise. 

 

My first Thai experience was on suan plu. I am not saying it was the best, and it was a total accident, but i sure as hell would never trade the great experience i had there for khao san road. 

Edited August 14, 2018 by utalkin2me

[lamyai3]

4 minutes ago, utalkin2me said:

I think the Khao San Road experience basically misses the entire point of traveling. You are absolutely right, to each their own. 

 

To me, KSR is the equivalent of traveling around the world to maybe learn a new language and culture, and then in actuality, when you arrive you end up sitting around with a group of foreigners speaking english. You can probably have a similar experience in your own country at a backpackers hostel. But if that is traveling to you, that is great i suppose, i would just recommend otherwise. 

You're missing the point - Khaosan for the most part is a place people spend not much more than two or three days in. It's a springboard for ongoing travel, pretty much like it was depicted in The Beach movie, a place where you hung out waiting for your train tickets to arrive. Remember that hanging out with other young people from cultures all over the world is a formative experience, and much of what they're sitting talking about is their travel experiences and plans. I may not be young now but I can remember what it was like.

 

Learning to speak a new language is certainly part of really getting into the culture, but this takes years, no one is going to have much success doing it in a country they've just arrived in. Besides, Bangkok is an embarkation point not just for Thailand but the whole of Asia, many of the backpackers plan to travel to half a dozen countries, so what would be the point of a deep study of the language? Khaosan is a very small part of my past 22 years living in a few different countries in Asia, and several neighbourhoods in Bangkok, but I wouldn't look down on it. Travellers need places like that when they're hitting a new and unfamiliar place for the first time. 

[mommysboy]

12 hours ago, utalkin2me said:

Even if we stipulate that the young people have spoken and given it a thumbs down, I am saying that is a blessing in disguise for them.

 

There are a lot better, cooler, more authentic, whatever you want to call it, experiences all around Bangkok. As I see it, staying on Khao San Road and spending half your time in bkk surrounded by other foreigners is not a very Thai experience. We can stipulate Thailand and Thai people is actually why people come here, can't we? 

There's something rather boring about old uns telling youngsters how to have fun.  They want what they want.  I can certainly see no harm in it.  Khao san is a unique blend.

[HAKAPALITA]

We old uns were luckey, we could go to India, discover new Naughty things to annoy old uns, you pups are clucked , apart from Music gettin worse , and new drugs its all old hat, like KSRoad.Never get old, money dont beat Youth n Health.?[emoji481][emoji86]


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[Nyezhov]

20 minutes ago, HAKAPALITA said:

We old uns were luckey, we could go to India, discover new Naughty things to annoy old uns, you pups are clucked , apart from Music gettin worse , and new drugs its all old hat, like KSRoad.Never get old, money dont beat Youth n Health.?


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

People used to get pissed off when we fired up doobies in the 60s, sigh.....

[Number 6]

On 8/13/2018 at 7:15 PM, The manic said:

Been here for 10 miserable, angry, unhappy years! I doubt 800 hundred students depend on you alone. Teachers are replaceable. However, the Thai families of the Thai traders do depend on the incomes of the displaced traders.

Ten years is barely long enough to even give your opinions here a thought.

 

All I or anyone want is for them to keep it clean. Singapore uses hawker centers which seem a perfect solution but Thailand could never buy and purchase space for public welfare and common good.

 

I oversee a number of overseas scholarships so some of the best schools in Asia that none of the Thai teachers have motivation to bother with.  I coach, prep, edit essays, review standardized prep materials and coach IELTS which none of the foreign teachers have the ability or inclination. Thailand needs that. It doesn't need fried chicken necks.

 

The question was not me or they leaving. The issue is hawkers are dirty and proven themselves to be to the point of the government cleaning up the whole affair.

 

That nonsense in KSR is utterly ridiculous and the hawkers have no right. It's a public road, they need to pack up and move on. The entire falafel zone is a joke anyway. Worst value in Bangkok.

Edited August 14, 2018 by Number 6