Lesson Finally Learned

[NoMeAmes]

11 minutes ago, sandrabbit said:

I love your post but this isn't just Thailand this is the way Asia works from all the countries I've worked in. A lot of what you are saying is the Asian way of not saying anything bad or avoiding saying they are wrong so an Asian finding out the truth wouldn't react but us outsiders pull them up on this.

There's a difference between not saying anything and knowingly spit out lies.... One is passive, which, in my eyes, are more acceptable. The other one is done consciously and in order to gain something from the person who is being lied to (so yes, there will always be a victim). And if we're speaking about the first type, then yes, pretty much the entire Asia functions like this. It's the whole "saving face" culture. However, in countries where abrahamistic religions are the majority, saving face doesn't trump morals and principles. Children are taught not to lie, but to admit to their mistakes and their failures. That admitting them makes you then able to go on. And that lies will only dig you a hole in the ground cause you're gonna have to keep on lying to cover up each lie you spit out. I know this, I grew up in one of these non-buddhist countries. I grew up being taught that morality and principles do not trump pride and wealth or image in public. 

[Russell17au]

This is really interesting on how so many western experts on marriage are on here telling everybody that it is not a good idea to marry a Thai woman especially a Thai woman from the Isaan area. The one thing that all these expects don't tell you is what happened to their western marriages. How many of these western experts screwed around on their western wives or how many of them are nothing but drunks that went home and bashed their wives and children.

[Russell17au]

3 minutes ago, NoMeAmes said:

There's a difference between not saying anything and knowingly spit out lies.... One is passive, which, in my eyes, are more acceptable. The other one is done consciously and in order to gain something from the person who is being lied to (so yes, there will always be a victim). And if we're speaking about the first type, then yes, pretty much the entire Asia functions like this. It's the whole "saving face" culture. However, in countries where abrahamistic religions are the majority, saving face doesn't trump morals and principles. Children are taught not to lie, but to admit to their mistakes and their failures. That admitting them makes you then able to go on. And that lies will only dig you a hole in the ground cause you're gonna have to keep on lying to cover up each lie you spit out. I know this, I grew up in one of these non-buddhist countries. I grew up being taught that morality and principles do not trump pride and wealth or image in public. 

Yes and how many of those who are taught not to lie but to admit their mistakes still tell lies

[Damrongsak]

8 hours ago, Ketyo said:

... Whereas in the west, known big time liars are often ostracised....but of course not always...

Only after they've served the maximum number of terms in office.

[NoMeAmes]

2 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

Yes and how many of those who are taught not to lie but to admit their mistakes still tell lies

nowhere as many as in countries where children are taught that wealth and image is number 1. It's like there is no feeling of guilt associated with deceiving actions here...

[Russell17au]

1 minute ago, NoMeAmes said:

nowhere as many as in countries where children are taught that wealth and image is number 1. It's like there is no feeling of guilt associated with deceiving actions here...

yes and there is a lot of that in the so called western countries and a lot of it is from the religious groups

[NoMeAmes]

21 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

yes and there is a lot of that in the so called western countries and a lot of it is from the religious groups

and here it's everyone. 

[digbeth]

15 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Maybe things like this happen in the west but I've never seen it.

Oh boy have I got a whole section of internet for you 

[gaff]

you are too old fashioned ! what's wrong in thinking a bit differently ? Now I understand why some foreigners cannot adapt and finally leave.

 

I could do anything that do not involve kids and that adult people decide to do, even bang my girlfriend mother if she was hot ! And if my girlfriend brother wanted to bang my Mom, no problem also !

 

So I guess that I am ready to stay here forever ❤️

 

 

 

 

[KhaoYai]

8 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It seems to me you are not only struggling with the relationships but with "Thai" behavior in general. I guess it's much easier for you to understand the people at home. So if you want to understand people in Thailand there is an easy solution: Stay home.

I'm not struggling at all. It doesn't matter whether I'm in Farangland or Thailand, I will not accept unfaithfull partners. Why struggling? With my ex wife for example, are you suggesting that I should accept that she plays around with her 'cousin' whilst I'm away working? With the girl I mentioned in my original post - are you refering to that as failing to understand Thai behaviour? If so, are you suggesting its fine for her father's girlfriend to deceive the German guy.

 

I've come to the conclusion that very few Thai girls don't play around so I've given up - and I'm OK with that, not struggling with it. Do you think you understand Thai people? You may think you do but I doubt it. they have a completely different mindset to westerners but again, that's not a problem to me most of the time - sometimes gets a bit frustrating getting things done etc but its OK.  I have many Thai friends in Bangkok however who don't act like most Thai's and I'd say that they understand them less than I do.

 

But your missing my point overall - I, like so many thought I could make it in a relationship with a Thai, I thought I could find the one that was not after all she could get and would not jump in bed with someone else before my plane got to the end of the runway - I was wrong - lesson learned.

 

Why should I stay home?  Not being in a relationship suits me now, I have nothing to worry about, nobody to 'take care of' and girls are ten a penny.  Lesson Learned.

Edited August 7, 2018 by KhaoYai

[gaff]

3 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

I'm not struggling at all. It doesn't matter whether I'm in Farangland or Thailand, I will not accept unfaithfull partners. Why struggling? With my ex wife for example, are you suggesting that I should accept that she plays around with her 'cousin' whilst I'm away working? With the girl I mentioned in my original post - are you refering to that as failing to understand Thai behaviour? If so, are you suggesting its fine for her father's girlfriend to deceive the German guy.

 

I've come to the conclusion that very few Thai girls don't play around so I've given up - and I'm OK with that, not struggling with it. Do you think you understand Thai people? You may think you do but I doubt it. they have a completely different mindset to westerners but again, that's not a problem to me most of the time - sometimes gets a bit frustrating getting things done etc but its OK.  I have many Thai friends in Bangkok however who don't act like most Thai's and I'd say that they understand them less than I do.

 

But your missing my point overall - I, like so many thought I could make it in a relationship with a Thai, I thought I could find the one that was not after all she could get and would not jump in bed with someone else before my plane got to the end of the runway - I was wrong - lesson learned.

 

Why should I stay home?  Not being in a relationship suits me now, I have nothing to worry about, nobody to 'take care of' and girls are ten a penny.  Lesson Learned.

 

This is what I said ! so old fashioned !

 

If I was bi I could also bang my stepfather !

 

 

555+

 

 

[MyFriend You]

18 hours ago, Dmaxdan said:

The trick is to find a Thai woman that has never knowingly thought about a relationship with a Farang or has no acquaintances who have Farang partners. Then they have nothing to compare it with.

I willing to bet there are just as many TV members who have long term successful relationships as those that had problems, if not more.

Why bother, I like his last paragraph..........that's the plan - stick with it. If you're wondering why I say this - even with all my experience in Thailand, I got caught up with the "Pee Chai" back in the eighties, I pursued this girl since she was about 18, I was 30, her mom was a bar owner in Pattaya, her 'Pee Chai" was the bar manager, after two years, we finally got together then I find out from another bar owner that the "Pee Chai" was her husband, they had been married since she was 14, had three kids.  I quietly extricated myself from that situation, but over the two year period, I gave her  a lot of gold..............?

Edited August 7, 2018 by TunnelRat69

[KhaoYai]

9 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

Does the time span and frequency of your visits make any difference to the time span of her "loyalty" to you or "her" next "punter" (sorry lover!)?

Just the sort of comment I expect from members of this forum. It may come as some surprise to you but not everyone marries or dates bar girls. That's not a criticism of those who do by the way - good luck to them. Its just that some people, usually those back in Farangland think that if you're in a relationship with a Thai girl, you must have met her in a bar.

 

And yes, I do think there should be a difference between a relationship where a guy who visits often and one who visits every 6 months.  I don't think its unreasonable to expect that if I can keep my zip up whilst I'm away working to pay the bills, my wife can stop herself from jumping in to bed with other guys.

[KhaoYai]

38 minutes ago, gaff said:

 

This is what I said ! so old fashioned !

Old fashioned?  Well you don't elaborate on what the 'new fashion' but based on your last comment about banging your stepfather let me guess?  Everyone sh*gs who they want right?

 

When I'm in a committed relationship and as a couple, we decide to get married, I make it very clear to my partner what I expect from that relationship - I expect her to spell out what she wants too.  I can tell you now that if it had been me playing around, my ex would have gone crazy - she was even jealous of female Thai friends that I'd had for years before I knew her. So I think its fairly clear that me playing around was not acceptable...........it later turned out it was OK for her though.  I've even had it said to me - by the girl who's father was dating the German's wife "this is going to sound very selfish, I want to see other people but you can't".........yeah right!!

 

So back to my 'old fashioned' ways of expecting my wife to be faithfull.........I worked away for 8 week stints and returned home to Thailand for 2 weeks.  I paid the bills, bought the car, paid the insurance, paid for her mother's eye operation. etc. etc. etc. Damned right I expect a faithfull wife.  I didn't get married to have my wife sh*gging every Tom, Dick and Harry just because maybe she's a bit lonely, horny or whatever!

 

So what's the modern way then - seeing as I'm so old fashioned?  Work your guts out, pay the bills, buy the car, pay for the insurance etc. and both sh*g whoever you want?  Is that the modern way? Naaa, its the stupid way...............if you want to play around all the time, why bother even being in a relationship? Why not be footloose and fancy free as I am now? What's the bloody point? Is it just that you want the security of having someone at home you can call your partner to make you feel better?

 

I've heard this all before - so called modern, new age people - well let me tell you something, I'm not old fashioned at all - infidelity is still the biggest cause of all divorces by a country mile so its clearly not acceptable to many people. If I'm old fashioned then most of the world is too.

[KhaoYai]

12 hours ago, NoMeAmes said:

it took you 16 years, huh?

No, it didn't take me 16 years to learn about the lying and the cheating. It took me 16 years to finally give up and decide that if there is an honest, faithfull, Thai female out there, I ain't going to meet her ?.  There's only just so much you can put yourself through and in reality, I should have given up a long time ago.

[Elkski]

No way would this ever happen to me. 

 

I've read TV for 2 years.  

 

Whatever happens I will never give up on women.   Life is like a Chess game/poker/tight rope walking.  Maybe like cave diving.   

 

 

#1 be worth more alive than dead 

#2 don't move to her village

#3 don't buy a house after marriage.

#4 buy the car and scooter prior to marriage. 

#5 don't get married unless you have spent years together or ever. 

#6 be the man. They want this or find a new one. 

#7 if they like cat's WThell be gone. 

#8 maybe we can do sin sod for show, but the 800,000 goes back in my retirement visa account. 

#9 Gold." can wear or sell" she says.  Yes but baby you won't need to sell it if you obey my rules.

#10. Buy some lottery tickets! She asks.   Baby! you won the lottery!  And don't forget it. 

#11 remind them every now and then how many women 10 years younger would enjoy a fun life like this. 

 

Edited August 7, 2018 by Elkski

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, Elkski said:

No way would this ever happen to me. 

 

I've read TV for 2 years.  

 

Whatever happens I will never give up on women.   Life is like a Chess game/poker/tight rope walking.  Maybe like cave diving.   

 

 

#1 be worth more alive than dead 

#2 don't move to her village

#3 don't buy a house after marriage.

#4 buy the car and scooter prior to marriage. 

#5 don't get married unless you have spent years together or ever. 

#6 be the man. They want this or find a new one. 

#7 if they like cat's WThell be gone. 

#8 maybe we can do sin sod for show, but the 800,000 goes back in my retirement visa account. 

#9 Gold." can wear or sell" she says.  Yes but baby you won't need to sell it if you obey my rules.

#10. Buy some lottery tickets! She asks.   Baby! you won the lottery!  And don't forget it. 

#11 remind them every now and then how many women 10 years younger would enjoy a fun life like this. 

 

I guess if you think #11 is necessary then make sure #1 is true and they know about it before you mention #11

[hellohello123]

9 hours ago, micmichd said:

Yes, and then they come to Thailand and promise Thai ladies a rose garden. Like a house in Germany, where in fact the house belongs to a bank, the mother, or someone else. 

Why should a poor farmergirl from Issan want to.marry someone like this?

Lying isn't good at all. 

 

However if you're going to judge someone based on the size of his........ House. 

 

Then expect to get burnt at times. 

 

You play with fire..... 

[ResandePohm]

17 hours ago, oldrunner said:

Berkshire sure sounds British so leave President Trump out of your limited mental capability.

Oldrunner are you another that has not woken up to that devious debauched duplicitous liar that you call POTUS. Makes me wonder who really has the limited mental capability.

[watcharacters]

On 8/7/2018 at 8:32 AM, KhaoYai said:

I already have a house, I don't need to build one for anyone but if they want to play around for a few weeks thinking I might build them one, I can play that game but not for long.

 

Assuming this implies ownership, there's the proof foreigners can own a house in  Thailand.

[Pilotman]

10 hours ago, bermannor said:

Why should a hardworking farang farmer, integrated into the community, taking care of wife and kids, read TVF and read and post on threads like this one to a bunch of loosers or selfproclaimed reborn Thai experts?

well said 

[moutamine]

18 hours ago, bubba45 said:

Quite a few years back a novel came out here called "Private Dancer".  A writer for the BKK Post, believe it was, reviewed it and said it should be handed out free to every single westerner coming into the country.  One of the many occurrences in the book was exactly that, husband passed off as brother.  Good, entertaining read.  Still in print, as far as I know.

Actually, I have read this book. HR Manager (Thai girl) gave me that book and told me exactly that when I first started here. That it should be a handbook given to any Westerner coming to live in Thailand. 

The story is amazing and shocking at the same time.  You learn everything you need to know about Thai bar girl relationship in this book.  Believe me it will open your eyes...

The "brother" boyfriend/husband letting the wife screw the British guy making him think he's the only one. 

[Berkshire]

10 hours ago, NoMeAmes said:

The other one is done consciously and in order to gain something from the person who is being lied to (so yes, there will always be a victim). And if we're speaking about the first type, then yes, pretty much the entire Asia functions like this. It's the whole "saving face" culture. However, in countries where abrahamistic religions are the majority, saving face doesn't trump morals and principles. Children are taught not to lie, but to admit to their mistakes and their failures. That admitting them makes you then able to go on. And that lies will only dig you a hole in the ground cause you're gonna have to keep on lying to cover up each lie you spit out. I know this, I grew up in one of these non-buddhist countries. I grew up being taught that morality and principles do not trump pride and wealth or image in public. 

You sound like someone who's been the "victim" of lies and now feels a need to condemn all manner of lies as evil.  And generally speaking--particularly from the western perspective--I agree with you.  But if you're talking about the true nature of Asian "saving face" sort of lies, this is what happens most frequently:  Grandma buys you a birthday gift.  You absolutely hate it.  But instead of being honest, you lie and say "I love it Grandma!"  Who is the victim in this case?  That's really what "saving face" is in Asia.  More often than not, it's to prevent the other person from losing face.

 

But in Thailand, many farangs have been on the receiving end of Thai female lies.  There are the obvious BG lies, such as "handsome man," "I no like Thai man," "I only work here 2 weeks"...etc., that are legendary.  The BG is just doing her job and honestly, I don't see the farang as being the victim.  Rather, if you're stupid enough to believe these lies, then you deserve to get fleeced.  But if you marry someone and she's playing the long game with a BF on the side, then that's true evil.  No excusing that.   

 

 

[moutamine]

The game here is not so different.  Back in the west, women are proud to say they are independent. It comes from the fact that they have somewhat enough money to survive on their own.

When we date western women, we are not constantly thinking "oh I need to marry this girl". Why are you thinking it here?  The fact that most older guys (50 and above) are going after 25 years old chicks here is the cause of those problems.  Do you really think in your right mind that a 25 year old good looking slim Thai (or any other nationality) woman would be looking to get married or even hook up with an old mostly bald and big belly western man?   They are hooking with Western man for financial security reasons only!!!  They do not love you, they would rather be with a 28-30 years old Thai man with whom they can actually speak and share thoughts and dreams.  But the reality is that most Thai men are drinkers, violent and serial cheaters... so if you were in her shoes you would choose the least of the bad situations as well and go with the fat German dude and have a side romance with a young Thai stud because you know what, these women all needs too and you are not fulfilling them.

 

[Kwasaki]

15 hours ago, car720 said:

Not really.  I think he has finally learned the rules of the game quite well.  

Some may agree with you that's life a game and for OP whose been here for 16 years frankly I find it a sad attitude, kind of living a life like that.

I've got kids and grandkids from my relationships and no regrets, well too few to mention. ?

[Snow Leopard]

21 year old Thai girl and is an older farang guy. What can go wrong?? Even in the West. Me personally i cant be doing with the young things around me. I know it would never work on my part let alone theirs. Get someone is closer in age. There will always be more compatibility. 

 

18 - 35 years old they are thinking about life and browsing for the best catch.

35+ They are more mature and start thinking about their own future and what they will do later in life.

[Vacuum]

20 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

it is just a game.

 

 

19 hours ago, kannot said:

Like  Russian roulette???

I think the divorce rate is something like 40%. You'll have better chances with roulette, at least if you use a 6-shooter revolver.

[marko kok prong]

Well i had a Spanish girlfriend for a year it was 50-50 on everything,she never lied [that i know], Norwegian girl,same,ex Aussie wife -bitch at end but okay for majority of marriage.

Thai wife 1- almost pathological liar

Thai wife 2-does lie occasionally under no illusion that if i told her tomorrow i had no money would be off,drives me mad sometimes but is generally a good wife, as we are building a house she has done all the work with land office ,Ampur,elec board,water board.

Cultural difference's the hardest part,sometimes i would actually like to know what she is doing or where she is going, but i think this is a western thing we rarely leave without saying 'just going to shop,or pub or whatever,Thai's see no need for this,similar thing she recently invested in a buisness in town,saw no need to tell me,not saying she had too,and she still denies it to this day,but overall positives outweigh the negatives and i do actually trust her in regard to fidelity,though what i don't know i don't know,so if she want's a bit of young cock or pussy[she does swing both ways], really i don't care that much as she is highly sexed and lucky for me extremely saucy in bed, sometimes i feel i have been assualted after a session. But also i think we must look in the mirror and realise Thai culture can often frustrate our own western idea's like being on time, jobs done properly, not being obsessed by food and money,and also realising as another poster said,many of our wives/gfs have had a pretty tough life with little money or education,so often we blow up over thing's they see as unimportant and vice versa,like all relationship's it requires hard work and compromise to make them work,just with a thai partner it requires a little more work and compromise.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, Snow Leopard said:

21 year old Thai girl and is an older farang guy. What can go wrong?? Even in the West. Me personally i cant be doing with the young things around me. I know it would never work on my part let alone theirs. Get someone is closer in age. There will always be more compatibility. 

 

18 - 35 years old they are thinking about life and browsing for the best catch.

35+ They are more mature and start thinking about their own future and what they will do later in life.

35+ should be happy if anybody wants to marry them.

 

Personally I prefer a sexy 18 year old who tells me I am a hansom man compared to an old woman who tells me the same lie. The difference is the old woman told that lie probably already to thousand other guys. And there are other things she probably did with 1,000 other guys...

[from the home of CC]

22 hours ago, hellohello123 said:

be careful!!!, she may trade you in for any farang in any part of the world!!!???

Hello, is this you basing this upon your own experiences? If you had relationship (s) that went south maybe you weren't thinking enough with your big head. I admit I was very lucky to find someone to spend the rest of my days with (15 yrs and counting). She was a PR in Canada (where we married) for a while so she's gotten a good handle of where I'm coming from. And I spent 3 years in her small village running a store so I got an inkling of what influenced her when she grew up. We both worked hard in keeping it going (though it wasn't that tough) and it payed off with a lot of mutual love and respect, ol' school I guess you'd call it. Good luck to you Sir.