Boris Johnson slammed over Islamophobic comments

[7by7]

12 hours ago, sambum said:

12 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

 

 

 

 

  Quote

Under new directive in north London, children driven to school by their mothers will be expelled; rabbis say policy upholds modesty

"Where was the outrage over that?"

 

The Mayor of London is a Muslim as is the Home Secretary - any outrage would be quickly nipped in the bud, as was shown by the lady asking the the police to stop Muslims praying in Hyde Park a few weeks ago!

 Why would a Muslim Home Secretary and a Muslim mayor of London stop anyone expressing outrage over the misogyny of Haredi Jews?

 

Besides, that article was published in May 2015, when the Home Secretary was Theresa May and the Mayor of London was Boris Johnson; as far as I am aware neither are Muslims!

 

I have found claims and highly edited videos from far right and Islamaphobic sources about a woman being arrested in May after asking police to stop Muslims praying in Hyde Park; but nothing from a reliable source. It does seem strange that police would arrest anyone who reported to them that someone was carrying out a banned activity; all collective religious activity is banned from all royal parks (source). If she were arrested, she must have done a lot more than merely complain!

 

12 hours ago, sambum said:

"How can anyone justify that because women have few, or no, rights in some countries then we should restrict women's rights here in the UK?"

 

Because the wearing of a burka "offends" a great number of UK people?

So you believe that because a particular style of dress reportedly offends a 'great number' of people in the UK we should act like one of the repressive regimes those same people regularly criticise and dictate to people, especially women, what they can and cannot wear?

 

Surely doing so makes us as bad as those repressive regimes?

[7by7]

12 hours ago, Opl said:

13 hours ago, blazes said:

Roger Scruton, in The Spectator, makes some good points:

 

 

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/08/the-art-of-taking-offence/?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Evening Blend 10082018&utm_campaign=Evening_Blend

Thanks for sharing,

very true

Like many people in this debate, he is only critical of Islamic face coverings, no mention of other kinds.

 

In this topic we have already mentioned full face crash helmets. They serve a vital safety purpose; but they are also used by gangs on motorbikes to commit street crime, and other robberies; should they be banned? 

 

What about the anti pollution masks worn in our larger cities by many cyclists and increasingly by pedestrians? Should they be banned as well?

[dick dasterdly]

13 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 I have to admit I have not read every post since my last visit. But I would like to make some points based on those I have read.

 

1) Many people are saying that wearing a burka, niqab, chador or hajib shows that the wearer has no desire to integrate into British society. Presumably because the wearers are not dressed in the British way.

 

But members of other religions dress differently to the British norm; orthodox Jews, Sikhs, Rastafarians etc. Are these people also refusing to integrate?

 

How many of those accusing these Muslim women of not integrating live in Thailand? How many of those speak Thai; how many post in the General Forum laughing at or complaining about the peculiarities of Thais; How many complain about bars closing on election days and other state occasions; etc., etc.?

 

Of course, no doubt those that fit this description will come up with the usual excuse that they do not have to integrate into Thai society as their are not immigrants; their visas say so! Despite the fact that they have lived in Thailand for many years and intend doing so for many more.

 

2) Then there is the feminist argument; no women should be forced to wear such a garment. 

 

What happened to a woman's right to choose? Isn't that one of the foundations of feminism?

 

 

 

Two opposing views from a Muslim woman and an Imam.

 

OK, I accept that some men may force their wives and daughters to wear it and punish them if they refuse.

 

But wife beating is not just committed by Muslim men. Certain members wont like it, but even men from white Christian backgrounds commit spousal abuse.

 

Furthermore, women in the orthodox Jewish community have no more, if not less, rights than those in orthodox Muslims ones.

 

UK Haredi rabbis ban women drivers

Where was the outrage over that?

 

3) Women cannot wear what they like in some Muslim countries, so Muslim women should not be allowed to wear what they like here in the UK.

 

True. Oppressive regimes exist, no one denies that. But the UK is not one, and I hope never will be. My father served in the RAF from 1939 to 1945 to keep this country free. He'd be turning in his grave if he read some of the comments here!

 

How can anyone justify that because women have few, or no, rights in some countries then we should restrict women's rights here in the UK?

 

 

The first video was quite interesting as it explained why these women decided to start wearing the burka.

 

My impression was that they wanted to make it even clearer that they were Moslem, and saw it as an act of showing that they were devout Moslems ....  Presumably they believe that any Moslem that doesn't wear the burka isn't devout enough.....?

 

Additionally, for some completely obscure reason - they believed it made others look at them as 'who they are, rather than what they look like/wear'? ?

 

A depressing reminder of how the young (even those that are, presumably, fairly intelligent) are so frequently shown to be extremely stupid and lacking any common sense.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

16 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

The first video was quite interesting as it explained why these women decided to start wearing the burka.

 

My impression was that they wanted to make it even clearer that they were Moslem, and saw it as an act of showing that they were devout Moslems ....  Presumably they believe that any Moslem that doesn't wear the burka isn't devout enough.....?

 

Additionally, for some completely obscure reason - they believed it made others look at them as 'who they are, rather than what they look like/wear'? ?

 

A depressing reminder of how the young (even those that are, presumably, fairly intelligent) are so frequently shown to be extremely stupid and lacking any common sense.

 

 

Totally overloaded with your own bias.

 

By example:

 

“My impression was that they wanted to make it even clearer that they were Moslem, and saw it as an act of showing that they were devout Moslems ....  Presumably they believe that any Moslem that doesn't wear the burka isn't devout”

 

Your presumption is just that, a presumption.

 

They may, for example, simply believe they wish to express their faith in this manner without any judgement on others who choose differently.

 

 

A depressing remider of how bias gets in the way of excepting explantions about the choices other people make even when they themselves provide the explanation.

Edited August 11, 2018 by Chomper Higgot

[DILLIGAD]

Like many people in this debate, he is only critical of Islamic face coverings, no mention of other kinds.
 
In this topic we have already mentioned full face crash helmets. They serve a vital safety purpose; but they are also used by gangs on motorbikes to commit street crime, and other robberies; should they be banned? 
 
What about the anti pollution masks worn in our larger cities by many cyclists and increasingly by pedestrians? Should they be banned as well?

Many areas/premises in UK, full face crash helmets must not be worn.
Are ‘anti-pollution masks’ frequently worn in UK???


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sambum]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 Why would a Muslim Home Secretary and a Muslim mayor of London stop anyone expressing outrage over the misogyny of Haredi Jews?

 

Besides, that article was published in May 2015, when the Home Secretary was Theresa May and the Mayor of London was Boris Johnson; as far as I am aware neither are Muslims!

 

I have found claims and highly edited videos from far right and Islamaphobic sources about a woman being arrested in May after asking police to stop Muslims praying in Hyde Park; but nothing from a reliable source. It does seem strange that police would arrest anyone who reported to them that someone was carrying out a banned activity; all collective religious activity is banned from all royal parks (source). If she were arrested, she must have done a lot more than merely complain!

 

So you believe that because a particular style of dress reportedly offends a 'great number' of people in the UK we should act like one of the repressive regimes those same people regularly criticise and dictate to people, especially women, what they can and cannot wear?

 

Surely doing so makes us as bad as those repressive regimes?

 "Why would a Muslim Home Secretary and a Muslim mayor of London stop anyone expressing outrage over the misogyny of Haredi Jews?" My apologies for my mistake, but if the incident happened more than 3 years ago any "uproar" will long since have been reported. 

 

And I never said anything about the woman in Hyde Park being arrested, only that she complained to the Police about "people" (As it happened they were Muslims) praying in the Park and that it was against the law - she even had a copy of the local By Laws as evidence, yet the Police did nothing as it might "offend" the people praying, or their supporters, and may even lead to "trouble".

 

Re your rhetoric about dictating what women should or should not be allowed to wear, this country has laws which should be adhered to by EVERYBODY, and if the law says that the wearing of a Burka, or a full face crash helmet is against the law, then EVERYBODY should adhere to it. At the moment it is not against the law, but in my opinion, and many others (not just on ThaiVisa) it should be, not because of the "oppressive " religion/regime that it represents, but as is pointed out in an earlier post,(Roger Scruton, in The Spectator,) I like to see people face to face, not just eye to eye. 

Edited August 11, 2018 by sambum

[sambum]

25 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Totally overloaded with your own bias.

 

By example:

 

“My impression was that they wanted to make it even clearer that they were Moslem, and saw it as an act of showing that they were devout Moslems ....  Presumably they believe that any Moslem that doesn't wear the burka isn't devout”

 

Your presumption is just that, a presumption.

 

They may, for example, simply believe they wish to express their faith in this manner without any judgement on others who choose differently.

 

 

A depressing remider of how bias gets in the way of excepting explantions about the choices other people make even when they themselves provide the explanation.

If a Christian wanted to wear a bikini as a means of showing their faith in their country, would it be allowed? - or even - Allah forbid - a woman not wearing a headscarf!

 

[duanebigsby]

7 minutes ago, sambum said:

If a Christian wanted to wear a bikini as a means of showing their faith in their country, would it be allowed? - or even - Allah forbid - a woman not wearing a headscarf!

 

Why is a bikini now a biblical show of faith?

[sambum]

2 minutes ago, duanebigsby said:

Why is a bikini now a biblical show of faith?

I said IF!!!

[Chomper Higgot]

4 hours ago, sambum said:

If a Christian wanted to wear a bikini as a means of showing their faith in their country, would it be allowed? - or even - Allah forbid - a woman not wearing a headscarf!

 

Their country is the U.K.

 

Do keep up.

 

Doh!

[7by7]

4 hours ago, DILLIGAD said:

Many areas/premises in UK, full face crash helmets must not be worn.
 

 

Anyone whose face is covered for any reason has to remove that covering if required for identification purposes. For example burka wearing women have to remove their veil at UK passport control, when attending to take a driving test and anywhere else where they need to identify themselves.

 

Burka wearing women in court have to remove it; whether they are the accused entering a plea or a witness giving evidence.

 

As for private premises, including government offices, it is up to them whether or not they require people whose faces are covered to remove said covering upon entering.

 

But Boris was talking about banning them, or rather not banning g them, in public.

 

4 hours ago, DILLIGAD said:

Are ‘anti-pollution masks’ frequently worn in UK???

Yes, especially in large cities. Cyclists at first, pedestrians more and more as the air quality worsens.

 

 

[7by7]

5 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

The first video was quite interesting as it explained why these women decided to start wearing the burka.

 

My impression was that they wanted to make it even clearer that they were Moslem, and saw it as an act of showing that they were devout Moslems ....  Presumably they believe that any Moslem that doesn't wear the burka isn't devout enough.....?

 

Additionally, for some completely obscure reason - they believed it made others look at them as 'who they are, rather than what they look like/wear'? ?

 

A depressing reminder of how the young (even those that are, presumably, fairly intelligent) are so frequently shown to be extremely stupid and lacking any common sense.

 

 

Your impression; fed no doubt by your prejudice.

 

Where did they say that they do consider any woman who does not wear a burka to be devout enough?

 

Even were that true, there are plenty of members of all religions, especially the three Abrahamic ones, who consider themselves to be more devout than others because of the way they dress or behave.

 

None of which has any bearing on the content of either video; which shows that the faux outrage and accusations of misogyny are wrong; most of the burka wearing women in the UK wear it because they want to, not because they are forced to.

 

Your post is a depressing, but totally expected, reminder that the prejudiced will always twist the facts they can't ignore.

 

 

 

 

[7by7]

4 hours ago, sambum said:

If a Christian wanted to wear a bikini as a means of showing their faith in their country, would it be allowed? - or even - Allah forbid - a woman not wearing a headscarf!

Many burka wearing women in the UK were born here, the UK is their country.

 

Yet again the argument that certain countries have repressive regimes therefore we in the UK should have the same!

 

Me? I prefer democracy. Not perfect, but as Churchill quoted from an unknown source, better than any of the alternatives.

[duanebigsby]

5 hours ago, DILLIGAD said:

Many areas/premises in UK, full face crash helmets must not be worn.
Are ‘anti-pollution masks’ frequently worn in UK???


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You keep going on and on about full face crash helmets. Other than on the road with your bike, where are you trying to wear it?

[sebastion]

The Chinese seem to have mastered it,,,,
I would have agreed with you on the fact of husbAnds pressure in the Middle East that was my experience but not with many I have met in the UK. The indoctrination and brainwashing goes to the core and many are as guilty as the men on their version of Islam and the Koran.

Same with the Japanese.
No Muslim migration policy. 100% incompatible with Japanese society.

Sent from my EVA-L19 using Tapatalk

[vogie]

Are ISIS infringing on the human rights of muslim women by banning the burqa.

 

"THEIR “morality police” brutally enforced burkas for years, but now IS chiefs are demanding women stop covering themselves."

 

www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/isis-bans-women-from-wearing-burkas-after-chiefs-attacked-by-veiled-assassins/news-story/5356534a06f3213389835f34281ecf80

 

 

[7by7]

12 minutes ago, duanebigsby said:

You keep going on and on about full face crash helmets. Other than on the road with your bike, where are you trying to wear it?

Not including @DILLIGAD, but some people like to wear them in shopping malls!

 

 

Just one of the increasing number of robberies  carried out by people wearing full face crash helmets.

 

 

How many are carried out by burka wearers?

Edited August 11, 2018 by 7by7

[Jack100]

Boris is to diplomacy what Alf Garnet is to the English language 1

[7by7]

19 minutes ago, sebastion said:

26 minutes ago, sebastion said:

On ‎8‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 1:20 PM, Laughing Gravy said:

The Chinese seem to have mastered it,,,,

Same with the Japanese.
No Muslim migration policy. 100% incompatible with Japanese society.

Yet another false claim.

 

Japan Keeps Islam at Bay?

Quote

Contrary to a popular meme, Japan has not "kept Islam at bay" by enforcing strict laws on Muslims...…...

The claim that in Japan permanent residency is not given to Muslims is also false. The Guidelines for Permission for Permanent Residence published by the Immigration Bureau of Japan make no mention of religion. In fact, according to an article published by the Asian Quarterly, the Japanese government does not inquire about religion:...…..

Islam in Japan

Quote

he history of Islam in Japan is relatively brief in relation to the religion's longstanding presence in other nearby countries. Islam is one of the smallest minority faiths in Japan, having more adherents in the country than the Bahá'í faith, but fewer than Christianity. There were isolated occasions of Muslims in Japan before the 19th century. Today, Muslims are made up of largely immigrant communities, as well as smaller ethnic Japanese community.^[1

 

As for China, there are, and have been, ethnic Chinese Muslims in China for centuries.

 

The authorities have increasingly tried to control religious education in recent years; all religions, not just Islam. Despite freedom of religion being guaranteed in the Chinese constitution.

 

Religion in China

Quote

As religious observance in China grows, the Chinese Communist Party continues to toughen oversight, increase religious persecution, and attempt to coopt state-sanctioned religious organizations.

 

China is a totalitarian regime with repressive laws. We are a democracy. 

[7by7]

26 minutes ago, vogie said:

Are ISIS infringing on the human rights of muslim women by banning the burqa.

 

"THEIR “morality police” brutally enforced burkas for years, but now IS chiefs are demanding women stop covering themselves."

 

www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/isis-bans-women-from-wearing-burkas-after-chiefs-attacked-by-veiled-assassins/news-story/5356534a06f3213389835f34281ecf80

 

 

 ISIS are infringing on human rights in many ways; including terrorist murder!

 

Do you really want the UK to follow ISIS' example in anything?

[Basil B]

I am sure there will be some spin on this soon

 

Tory Remainers stitch up Boris...

[Chomper Higgot]

46 minutes ago, vogie said:

Are ISIS infringing on the human rights of muslim women by banning the burqa.

 

"THEIR “morality police” brutally enforced burkas for years, but now IS chiefs are demanding women stop covering themselves."

 

www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/isis-bans-women-from-wearing-burkas-after-chiefs-attacked-by-veiled-assassins/news-story/5356534a06f3213389835f34281ecf80

 

 

Apart from your ludicrous comparison with what ISIS do, the issue is not banning the Burqa, but a politician ridiculing women who choose to wear the Burqa.

 

 

 

[Scott]

Off-topic troll post reported and removed. 

[sambum]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Their country is the U.K.

 

Do keep up.

 

Doh!

Then they should respect its laws and customs! And their parents and grandparents should also to be held to account for not teaching them that!

Doh!

[sambum]

55 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Apart from your ludicrous comparison with what ISIS do, the issue is not banning the Burqa, but a politician ridiculing women who choose to wear the Burqa.

 

 

 

Indeed the issue is a politician ridiculing women who choose to wear the burka (Or are told to wear the burka!)

 

However, it is not a ludicrous comparison at all. As far as I know, there has been no moped crime carried out in London by burka wearers because that would immediately bring the blame down on Muslims, and Muslims would say that it was people trying to look like Muslims so that Muslims would get the blame (Ooops!) 

 

The fact is that for years ISIS forced women to  wear the burka, but now, even they realise that it is not a good idea! :-

 

"isis-bans-women-from-wearing-burkas-after-chiefs-attacked-by veiled assassins"

 

 

[duanebigsby]

23 minutes ago, sambum said:

Indeed the issue is a politician ridiculing women who choose to wear the burka (Or are told to wear the burka!)

 

However, it is not a ludicrous comparison at all. As far as I know, there has been no moped crime carried out in London by burka wearers because that would immediately bring the blame down on Muslims, and Muslims would say that it was people trying to look like Muslims so that Muslims would get the blame (Ooops!) 

 

The fact is that for years ISIS forced women to  wear the burka, but now, even they realise that it is not a good idea! :-

 

"isis-bans-women-from-wearing-burkas-after-chiefs-attacked-by veiled assassins"

 

 

Wearing of the burka is many centuries older than ISIS.

 

[sambum]

32 minutes ago, duanebigsby said:

Wearing of the burka is many centuries older than ISIS.

 

So?

[duanebigsby]

31 minutes ago, sambum said:

So?

How can ISIS force people who already wear the burka to wear the burka?

 

[7by7]

2 hours ago, sambum said:

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Their country is the U.K.

 

Do keep up.

 

Doh!

Then they should respect its laws and customs! And their parents and grandparents should also to be held to account for not teaching them that!

Doh

There are no actual figures for Burka or niqab wearers in the UK, but the various organisations interested put the estimate at between 5,000 and 14,000 (source).

 

Which laws and which customs they are disrespecting by doing so?

 

In your opinion, are these people also disrespecting British laws and customs because of the way they dress?

[sambum]

42 minutes ago, duanebigsby said:

How can ISIS force people who already wear the burka to wear the burka?

 

Sorry but I don't know what you mean! Possibly because they can?

 

However, this is from an earlier post that you appear to  have missed :-

 

www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/isis-bans-women-from-wearing-burkas-after-chiefs-attacked-by-veiled-assassins/news-story/5356534a06f3213389835f34281ecf80