Trump says firms doing business in Iran to be barred from U.S. as sanctions hit

[The Old Bull]

14 hours ago, zydeco said:

If the rest of you want to be colonized and ruled over by the Communist totalitarians in China, so be it. Your choice. Get ready to work on your "social credit score" to see if you're eligible to ride on a train or plane. You're going to love your new world. 

The world has already been colonized by the USA. I wish the bastards would go home and mind their own business instead of interfering everywhere. Maybe China would be a better choice. This Iran business is about stealing their oil, put a dictator in place friendly to the US and they can roll in and grab the oil.

[Spidey]

4 minutes ago, The Old Bull said:

The world has already been colonized by the USA. I wish the bastards would go home and mind their own business instead of interfering everywhere. Maybe China would be a better choice. This Iran business is about stealing their oil, put a dictator in place friendly to the US and they can roll in and grab the oil.

They had a brutal puppet dictator in the Shah. The people booted him out in 1974 and the Americans have never forgiven them for it.

[Grouse]

Incidentally, the EU has 19x the trade with Iran compared to USA. Easy move for Trump.

 

RoW needs to find ways to avoid USD trade. And, if USA wants to punish, say Rolls Royce, for doing business with Iran, we should sanction American companies in retaliation. 

[Spidey]

Just now, Grouse said:

Incidentally, the EU has 19x the trade with Iran compared to USA. Easy move for Trump.

 

RoW needs to find ways to avoid USD trade. And, if USA wants to punish, say Rolls Royce, for doing business with Iran, we should sanction American companies in retaliation. 

Yep, sanctioning Boeing would do the trick and would be good for Airbus. 

[riclag]

12 hours ago, Different said:

Until Iran wicked government act normal, sanctions will remain.

Don't hold your breath! Regime change! It seems like ever since they took USA embassy hostages ,they can't get enough of being sent to bed without supper!  The masses must be sick of the current situation

Edited August 9, 2018 by riclag

[simple1]

1 hour ago, riclag said:

Don't hold your breath! Regime change! It seems like ever since they took USA embassy hostages ,they can't get enough of being sent to bed without supper!  The masses must be sick of the current situation

The US has a very poor record of handling unintended consequences. The opposition favoured by the Trump Administration, MEK, has minimal support within Iran, previously been classed as a terrorist group and so on; good call eh? China will very likely not heed the warning on buying Iranian oil, thereby escalating trade tensions. Last, but not least bloodshed will be a result - won't be pretty and will further destabilise the region with refugee movement, possible including the million already in Iran.

 

For a more articulate opinion piece...

 

https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/07/19/iran-hawks-should-be-careful-what-they-wish-for-regime-change-irgc-revolutionary-guards-qassem-suleimani/

[zydeco]

9 hours ago, The Old Bull said:

The world has already been colonized by the USA. I wish the bastards would go home and mind their own business instead of interfering everywhere. Maybe China would be a better choice. This Iran business is about stealing their oil, put a dictator in place friendly to the US and they can roll in and grab the oil.

Ridiculous hissy fit. Yes, please go to China. It's so much better for you. Enjoy the pristine rivers, clean air, unobstructed views, freedom of thought and expression, and tolerance of people such as Tibetans, Uighurs, and others now residing in re-education camps. Whatever problems you find there will be minor, I'm sure, and those only because of the American "bastards," as you term them.

[zydeco]

9 hours ago, Spidey said:

They had a brutal puppet dictator in the Shah. The people booted him out in 1974 and the Americans have never forgiven them for it.

And Iran has been so much better without the Shah?

[Spidey]

43 minutes ago, zydeco said:

And Iran has been so much better without the Shah?

Infinitely. Massive downturn in institutional murder and torture, redistribution of wealth, making the man in the street better off' I think that the average man in the street would answer a resounding "Yes" to your question. Also, the scum of the country, SAVAK, upped sticks and left the country along with the Shah and now reside in a neighbourhood near you.

 

This is in stark contrast to the "evil dictators" that the US removed rather than supported. Saddam Hussein managed to get the opposing fractions ,Sunnis and Shiites, to live relatively peacefully alongside each other for many years and had the genuine support of the majority in Iraq but because he threatened Israel, no one else, the US decided to remove him. The country immediately dissolved into civil war and ISIS moved in (Hussein was one of the biggest enemies of Al Quieda and had successfully kept them out of Iraq).

 

Gaddafi had built a nation that was the envy of the Arab world with first class health care and education for all. He was loved by the people of Lybia. Since his removal, the country has been reduced to civil war and poverty.

[mikebike]

19 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Only there isn't all that much "uniting" going on. Divisions and distrust among other players pretty much overrule an effective, well-coordinated resistance.

45 is creating the right environment for coordinated resistance.

[simple1]

59 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Saddam Hussein managed to get the opposing fractions ,Sunnis and Shiites, to live relatively peacefully alongside each other for many years and had the genuine support of the majority in Iraq

Really? Saddam represented a Sunni minority dictatorship and murdered hundreds of thousands, mass graves of his victims are still being discovered. Other than opinion got a credible sources to backup your claim?

Edited August 9, 2018 by simple1

[Spidey]

3 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Really? Saddam represented a Sunni minority dictatorship and murdered hundreds of thousands, mass graves of his victims are still being discovered. Other than opinion got a credible sources to backup your claim?

Kurds.

[simple1]

12 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Kurds.

LOL - never heard of the Anfal campaign???

Edited August 9, 2018 by simple1

[Spidey]

12 minutes ago, simple1 said:

LOL - never heard of the Anfal campaign???

Of course. As I said Kurds. Nobody likes the Kurds. Syrians don't like them, Iraqis don't like them, Turks HATE them, even the Iranians don't like them.

[simple1]

3 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Of course. As I said Kurds. Nobody likes the Kurds. Syrians don't like them, Iraqis don't like them, Turks HATE them, even the Iranians don't like them.

All Off Topic, but what on earth has all this got to do with your claim the majority of Iraqis supported Saddam. if you're saying, in relation to the OP, that the US made an enormous error with invading Iraq, not many would disagree.

Edited August 9, 2018 by simple1

[Spidey]

10 minutes ago, simple1 said:

All Off Topic, but what on earth has all this got to do with your claim the majority of Iraqis supported Saddam. if you're saying, in relation to the OP, that the US made an enormous error with invading Iraq, not many would disagree.

The thrust of it was, the average Joe in the street was relatively happy and had a reasonable lifestyle, now not so much.

I've watched several interviews with Iraqis, pretty much unanimously, they wish that the Americans had never "freed" them.

 

Better the devil you know.

 

 

Just for "simple1".

Edited August 9, 2018 by Spidey

[mtls2005]

One assumes that all of Wilbur Ross's companies will be exempt from sanctions and be allowed to continue to do business with Iran?

 

 

[the guest]

If America wants to bar Iran no problem, but dictating to other countries he can go and f*** off !

[zydeco]

3 hours ago, Spidey said:

Infinitely. Massive downturn in institutional murder and torture, redistribution of wealth, making the man in the street better off' I think that the average man in the street would answer a resounding "Yes" to your question. Also, the scum of the country, SAVAK, upped sticks and left the country along with the Shah and now reside in a neighbourhood near you.

 

This is in stark contrast to the "evil dictators" that the US removed rather than supported. Saddam Hussein managed to get the opposing fractions ,Sunnis and Shiites, to live relatively peacefully alongside each other for many years and had the genuine support of the majority in Iraq but because he threatened Israel, no one else, the US decided to remove him. The country immediately dissolved into civil war and ISIS moved in (Hussein was one of the biggest enemies of Al Quieda and had successfully kept them out of Iraq).

 

Gaddafi had built a nation that was the envy of the Arab world with first class health care and education for all. He was loved by the people of Lybia. Since his removal, the country has been reduced to civil war and poverty.

Bad Shah. Giving women the vote.

Evil Shah. Instituting land reform.

Satan Shah. Providing for coeducation.

Vicious Shah. Modernizing Iran.

Heretic shah. Allowing women to remove the veil in public.

Bad, bad, shah.

Khoumeini goooood.

[zydeco]

6 minutes ago, the guest said:

If America wants to bar Iran no problem, but dictating to other countries he can go and f*** off !

Again, you don't get it. The US is not prohibiting anybody from doing business with Iran. The US is only saying that if you do decide to do business with Iran, then you will not be able to do business with the US. Choose. The US is under no obligation to allow any foreign company to do business in the US.

[mtls2005]

7 minutes ago, zydeco said:

Bad Shah. Giving women the vote.

Evil Shah. Instituting land reform.

Satan Shah. Providing for coeducation.

Vicious Shah. Modernizing Iran.

Heretic shah. Allowing women to remove the veil in public.

Bad, bad, shah.

Khoumeini goooood.

 

Probably would/might be better if we hadn't overthrown Mohammad Mosaddegh in 1953?

 

 

64 Years Later, CIA Finally Releases Details of Iranian Coup

 

 

Known as Operation Ajax, the CIA plot was ultimately about oil. Western firms had for decades controlled the region’s oil wealth, whether Arabian-American Oil Company in Saudi Arabia, or the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company in Iran. When the U.S. firm in Saudi Arabia bowed to pressure in late 1950 and agreed to share oil revenues evenly with Riyadh, the British concession in Iran came under intense pressure to follow suit. But London adamantly refused.

 

https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/06/20/64-years-later-cia-finally-releases-details-of-iranian-coup-iran-tehran-oil/

 

 

 

Edited August 9, 2018 by mtls2005

[the guest]

1 minute ago, zydeco said:

Again, you don't get it. The US is not prohibiting anybody from doing business with Iran. The US is only saying that if you do decide to do business with Iran, then you will not be able to do business with the US. Choose. The US is under no obligation to allow any foreign company to do business in the US.

... and visa versa. It works both ways !

[zydeco]

5 minutes ago, the guest said:

... and visa versa. It works both ways !

Okay, be happy. Do your business with Iran. But don't ask for access to the US.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

16 hours ago, candide said:

So you are on the same side as sawadeeken. I think you will be both very happy to be allied with each other. ?

 

Really, as Candide suggests, the world would be a much happier and better place if people STOPPED telling others what religion or Gods or prophets they had to or should believe in.

 

As long as you're not harming yourself or others, AFAIC, you can believe God is the flower pot on your patio and get down on your knees every day to pray to God (inside the flower pot).  Just stop trying to force everyone else to share your same beliefs.

 

And stop using those beliefs as the basis for waging war or violence against innocents, even if they don't share the same belief as you. You can have your flower pot, and they can have their Jesus/Buddha/Allah etc., and everyone ought to be happy because they've got their own thing.

 

[Different]

19 hours ago, Jingthing said:

That kind of statement gives me shudders coming from any religion. Can't you just believe what you believe and let other people believe or not believe as they wish? 

It is not a choice it is obligatory, it is like Buddhism and I slam.   The first one teachings of way of living and second one is teaching by revelations beginning with Noah till Mohammad, coping of revelations and different rituals.

Then God chose Buddha as a prophet where he could spread the teachings of way of living by embracing good values.

[Different]

19 hours ago, Spidey said:

Islam is 2 world religions, Sunni and Shiite. You have been in conflict with each other since the birth of Islam.

That is an old common cliche saying Sunnis have been fighting Shiites, After Iran revolution against Shah of Iran the dead Khomeini stole the revolution from Iranians and started implementing extreme religious manifesto by introducing the 12 Imam Mahdi who speak on behave of God and they are beyond making mistakes as humans, which is a totally untrue for someone in this age would believe there are such individuals who govern on behave of God.

Look at Lebanon it is ruled by Hezbollah, Iraq ruled by Shiites clerks loyal to Iran regime. and Syria, Iranian and Lebanese Hezbollah fighting Syrian rebels who are fed up with the dictator Assad. So, if Saudi leaves Yemeni Shiites fanatics then eventually Yemen will be like Lebanon, Iraq. In short there is a difference between good Arab Shiites and those who give elegance to Iranian thugs who have no job but to destabilize the region.

[Morch]

On 8/8/2018 at 8:58 PM, Chomper Higgot said:

Then why, if the Iran’s threats to maritime passage are so serious has the rest of the world refused to follow Trump on Iran?

 

That's the best nonsense reply you can come up with?

Other than it not really following from my own post, why would any country "follow" Trump on the force of bellicose statements? If and when the Iranian regime would be foolish enough to go though with such, I'm pretty sure they'll spend whatever goodwill that's left internationally and regionally - and be faced with a wider opposition.

[Morch]

22 hours ago, Nickymaster said:

The US has almost no allies left. Trump has insulted basically everybody. It's the US against the world now. In a few years Trump will be gone but the damage will last for decades. I honestly feel sorry for Americans who see what is going on but can't do much about it.

 

 

Trump seems to feel that the US does not need allies, and that working with allies often binds the US to act against its best interests. The flaws and merits of this can be argued, but it is what it is - for now. 

 

The thing is that "it's the US against the world now" doesn't actually follow or effectively materialize. Sure, Trump managed to piss off a whole lot of countries and governments, on a quite a few issues. But the "resistance" offered is mostly not well-coordinated, and not particularly effective in changing the administration's policies and moves. IMO, the "Trump doctrine" (I know, I know.....) banks on the unlikelihood of an effective, united opposition - and on the US having enough leverage to either browbeat individual countries/governments or disrupt efforts to form such coalitions.

 

And while a whole lot of damage is done by Trump in terms of diplomatic relations, it remains to be seen how lasting its effects would be. Assuming a "normal" presidency follows and engages (former) allies again, I rather think many would just go along with the program, if more cautiously than before.

[Morch]

20 hours ago, Spidey said:

Islam is 2 world religions, Sunni and Shiite. You have been in conflict with each other since the birth of Islam.

 

Not by coincidence, the 4 countries that you mention have Shiite minorities in their population, all of which have been marginalised and oppressed by their Sunni brothers. Iran is fighting their cause, just as Saudi is fighting the Sunni cause in Yemen by the wholesale bombing and slaughter of innocent civilians.

 

I applaud your world religion philosophy on Islam but your Sunni loyalties are clearly clouding your religious philosophy.

 

I rather think Iran is fighting its cause, but marketing is useful. At least in one of the countries mentioned, the (sort of) Shia minority has been in power for decades, but don't let facts ruin a perfectly good "argument".

[Morch]

18 hours ago, Grouse said:

Incidentally, the EU has 19x the trade with Iran compared to USA. Easy move for Trump.

 

RoW needs to find ways to avoid USD trade. And, if USA wants to punish, say Rolls Royce, for doing business with Iran, we should sanction American companies in retaliation. 

 

Good luck with that. So far, doesn't seem like UK and EU firms are all that assured that their governments will back them up, or that fulfilling posters' fantasies is a sound business strategy. The question isn't just how much trade the EU got with Iran, but what trade it will lose with the US.