Good vs Bad Thai Girls - An Illusion?

[Horace]

What you do if you knew a foreigner was about to marry a Thai girl who was carrying another foreigner's child?  What if you were told that you were required to tell him to go forward with the marriage?  Would you give that advice?

 

This story goes back about 15 years ago.  I was dating a Thai girl who had just returned with with BA from fairly well known university in the US (a "UC" if you know California).  She had a Thai friend (let's call her Khun A) who had attended the same university.  In other words, these were not bar girls and came from what I would presume are good families.

 

On Song Kran, the Thai girl I was dating and I went to Chiang Mai.  She said Khun A would be joining us with her US fiancee.  Khun A is stunning and I had seen Khun A with a young good looking med student and figured that he was the fiancee.  He wasn't.  Her fiance was a rather average looking white guy with a rather average job and education.  I thought he was a decent guy, but he didn't seem like Khun A's "type".  Saying she was ambitious is a major understatement.  This all seemed a bit odd, but I knew Khun A wanted to live in the US.  Oh, and Khun A was a few months pregnant,

 

I figured the average looking guy with the average education (let's call him "Joe") was the father.  I didn't know Joe from Adam, but he seemed like a decent enough guy.  And then I was taken aside by the girl I was dating and Khun A told the following:   Joe had proposed to Khun A after being told by Khun A that she was carrying his child.  Khun A had convinced him to come back to Thailand to get married. But Khun A was not really carrying Joe's baby.  Arrangements had already been made for a wedding in Thailand.  Joe had just learned that Khun A was not carrying his child.  Joe was confused and hurt and would likely seek my advice even though he didn't know me. (I was the only Farang he knew in Thailand; this was his first trip). I was told, or rather, ordered to reassure him, tell him it wasn't a big deal and that he must go forward with wedding.  If I didn't give this advice and convince him to do as ordered, there would be "problems".

 

Needless to say, this was a real shocker.  What you do?  Joe is going to ask you for advice; he's confused and hurt and you are about the only person he can talk to.  But although he appears like a decent enough guy, he's not really a friend.  And you have been blind-sided with all of this. 

 

What would you do?   If I get at least five responses, I will tell you what I did. 

 

 

[Kadilo]

I wouldn’t get involved and would be gone. If someone told me what to do else there would be “problems” I would take that as a really unhealthy situation all round and be gone like a shot.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[bkk6060]

What would I do?

Nothing.

Is good vs. bad girls an illusion?

No, but many guys have myopia..

[GLewis]

46 minutes ago, Horace said:

 

What would you do?   If I get at least five responses, I will tell you what I did. 

 

 

You are not a good story teller. With this as your last line I am surprised this post is still up...

[johng]

I would like a "good bad girl" once in a while..unfortunately i'm happily married. [emoji14]

[johng]

I think /hope I would have told Joe in no uncertain terms not to marry such a scheming liar...but he probably would have gone and done it anyway.

[Horace]

OK, I thought about scooting fast, but I was in Chiang Mai Song Kran so travel was not really a viable option and that did not seem like the right thing to do.  To be honest, if I could have run, I might have, but I didn't.

 

I considered not doing anything, but I was asked, so I had no choice.

 

Agree that there was myopia here, and that is sort of my point.

 

The story is "real".  My apologies if it doesn't reach your literary standards, but I also don't care.  

 

Johng, I sort of did what you suggested.  I told Joe that it was up to him, but  he had been deceived, and that he was getting into a marriage with a woman that had deceived him to get US citizenship.  That was the goal. In other words, without saying "flee" I set out all of the reasons why he should flee.

 

A few points that maybe a few will see as trivial (but everyone):  

 

First, this divide between "good" and "bad" Thai girls is nonsense.  Cultures vary and, IMHO, this culture encourages this sort of deception and fraud.  There is a reason why Thailand scores so poorly on corruption indices.  Its taught in even the best families. 

 

Second, Farangs, minding their own business (in this case me), do get drawn into Thai soap operas and fraud where they have no viable options.  In some posts I see a tendency to suggest that Farangs are responsible for what happens to them; they could have avoided getting entangled into Thai scams if they were more careful.  This is simply not true if you live here.  Its part of the local color. 

 

Oh, and nothing happened to me, except that I got a lot of icy stares and sharp comments on the flight back to Bangkok (and immediately broke up with the GF who was pressing me to participate in the scam).  And Joe left Thailand without Khun A.  

 

 

[glegolo]

56 minutes ago, Horace said:

OK, I thought about scooting fast, but I was in Chiang Mai Song Kran so travel was not really a viable option and that did not seem like the right thing to do.  To be honest, if I could have run, I might have, but I didn't.

 

I considered not doing anything, but I was asked, so I had no choice.

 

Agree that there was myopia here, and that is sort of my point.

 

The story is "real".  My apologies if it doesn't reach your literary standards, but I also don't care.  

 

Johng, I sort of did what you suggested.  I told Joe that it was up to him, but  he had been deceived, and that he was getting into a marriage with a woman that had deceived him to get US citizenship.  That was the goal. In other words, without saying "flee" I set out all of the reasons why he should flee.

 

A few points that maybe a few will see as trivial (but everyone):  

 

First, this divide between "good" and "bad" Thai girls is nonsense.  Cultures vary and, IMHO, this culture encourages this sort of deception and fraud.  There is a reason why Thailand scores so poorly on corruption indices.  Its taught in even the best families. 

 

Second, Farangs, minding their own business (in this case me), do get drawn into Thai soap operas and fraud where they have no viable options.  In some posts I see a tendency to suggest that Farangs are responsible for what happens to them; they could have avoided getting entangled into Thai scams if they were more careful.  This is simply not true if you live here.  Its part of the local color. 

 

Oh, and nothing happened to me, except that I got a lot of icy stares and sharp comments on the flight back to Bangkok (and immediately broke up with the GF who was pressing me to participate in the scam).  And Joe left Thailand without Khun A.  

 

 

I think you did good in the end. Especially when you did NOT listen to the usual herd of cowards floating around.

 

Well done Sir,

glegolo

[DoctorG]

A good outcome all round then.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

You took a TEFL course and started teaching in Thailand?

[wwest5829]

16 hours ago, Horace said:

OK, I thought about scooting fast, but I was in Chiang Mai Song Kran so travel was not really a viable option and that did not seem like the right thing to do.  To be honest, if I could have run, I might have, but I didn't.

 

I considered not doing anything, but I was asked, so I had no choice.

 

Agree that there was myopia here, and that is sort of my point.

 

The story is "real".  My apologies if it doesn't reach your literary standards, but I also don't care.  

 

Johng, I sort of did what you suggested.  I told Joe that it was up to him, but  he had been deceived, and that he was getting into a marriage with a woman that had deceived him to get US citizenship.  That was the goal. In other words, without saying "flee" I set out all of the reasons why he should flee.

 

A few points that maybe a few will see as trivial (but everyone):  

 

First, this divide between "good" and "bad" Thai girls is nonsense.  Cultures vary and, IMHO, this culture encourages this sort of deception and fraud.  There is a reason why Thailand scores so poorly on corruption indices.  Its taught in even the best families. 

 

Second, Farangs, minding their own business (in this case me), do get drawn into Thai soap operas and fraud where they have no viable options.  In some posts I see a tendency to suggest that Farangs are responsible for what happens to them; they could have avoided getting entangled into Thai scams if they were more careful.  This is simply not true if you live here.  Its part of the local color. 

 

Oh, and nothing happened to me, except that I got a lot of icy stares and sharp comments on the flight back to Bangkok (and immediately broke up with the GF who was pressing me to participate in the scam).  And Joe left Thailand without Khun A.  

 

 

Agree, its often part of the cultural landscape. Had a female Thai friend who knew farang culture well enough. I always told her she was my friend and I would not do anything to hurt her but...I would not lie for her. She has put herself in some of the usual predicaments but they have been her's to work though. we could talk about them, I could give my advice but I distenced getting in the middle of things.

[animalmagic]

And similar occurrences have never happened anywhere else in the world?  Perhaps you are a regular contributor to the Daily Star in UK?

OMG, maybe I should move?

[Emster23]

How about posting the story on TV, get some responses, and suggest Joe join TV and look for a certain thread?

[Blackheart1916]

Well that was a waste of my time.

[stephenterry]

Well, Joe knew the score. I'd listen to what he had to say without being judgemental, but pointing out to him this is Thailand not the USA. Anything could and does happen here. Up to you, comes to mind.

 

 

[thesetat2013]

Seems to me that after 15 years in Thailand.. The woman who was supposed to be your gf would know that you won't lie and trap a foreigner into a marraige with a lying cheat impregnated with another foreigners baby. You should have told that woman to make her own way back to Bkk as well. She must not have had any love for you if she dumped you so easily and so fast because of your morals. 

As for John.. You did right by him and it will be returned to you one day in the future. 

[1FinickyOne]

All well and good... I don't see things as cut and dry as good and bad, good people can do bad things sometimes... 

 

I have been here a long time and do not particularly see farang being dragged into such things as this... more ignored and not told maybe... 

 

But, who is this Adam you mention? 

[jimcarr65]

Good girl vs Bad girl? No such thing in LOS. Family will ALWAYS come first (mom, dad, sisters) and money second, Buddha third but the would like to make you think differently. Never get involved.

[moutamine]

This sounds like one of those video games with multiple ending choices...

I would try telling him and see the outcome, then reload an older saved game and try a different answer to see the different outcome ?   At least what I do when I play a game...

[MrBanks]

To me this is a no brainer, I would not have said anything up front because you say that the guy knew , so no point in the situation, bringing it up, unless he wanted to talk about it. In the event that he did ask my opinion I would tell him to dump the girl and leave her far behind. She is a user and a person with no morals, she wants use him to get to the USA, where she will probably dump him..... No cut her loose with her other man's baby, you don't need that carp in your life.

 

[NoshowJones]

21 hours ago, Kadilo said:

I wouldn’t get involved and would be gone. If someone told me what to do else there would be “problems” I would take that as a really unhealthy situation all round and be gone like a shot.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

I would be telling the person who said there would be "problems" to explain what the "problems" are going to be, and his explanation had better be good.

[Bangkok Barry]

3 hours ago, animalmagic said:

And similar occurrences have never happened anywhere else in the world?  Perhaps you are a regular contributor to the Daily Star in UK?

OMG, maybe I should move?

 

Who said that it only happened in Thailand? I missed that post.

[connda]

22 hours ago, Horace said:

What you do if you knew a foreigner was about to marry a Thai girl who was carrying another foreigner's child? 

Chances are you're being set up to be a Sugar Daddy.  And if you're marrying a gal with a 'loaf in the oven' that wasn't made by you, then you really haven't know her long enough to be thinking about a marriage that will probably fail after your wealth has been sucked out of you. 

[AsiaHand]

Then mix in good and bad farangs with it and you have the picture of Pattaya.

[micmichd]

21 hours ago, Horace said:

OK, I thought about scooting fast, but I was in Chiang Mai Song Kran so travel was not really a viable option and that did not seem like the right thing to do.  To be honest, if I could have run, I might have, but I didn't.

 

I considered not doing anything, but I was asked, so I had no choice.

 

Agree that there was myopia here, and that is sort of my point.

 

The story is "real".  My apologies if it doesn't reach your literary standards, but I also don't care.  

 

Johng, I sort of did what you suggested.  I told Joe that it was up to him, but  he had been deceived, and that he was getting into a marriage with a woman that had deceived him to get US citizenship.  That was the goal. In other words, without saying "flee" I set out all of the reasons why he should flee.

 

A few points that maybe a few will see as trivial (but everyone):  

 

First, this divide between "good" and "bad" Thai girls is nonsense.  Cultures vary and, IMHO, this culture encourages this sort of deception and fraud.  There is a reason why Thailand scores so poorly on corruption indices.  Its taught in even the best families. 

 

Second, Farangs, minding their own business (in this case me), do get drawn into Thai soap operas and fraud where they have no viable options.  In some posts I see a tendency to suggest that Farangs are responsible for what happens to them; they could have avoided getting entangled into Thai scams if they were more careful.  This is simply not true if you live here.  Its part of the local color. 

 

Oh, and nothing happened to me, except that I got a lot of icy stares and sharp comments on the flight back to Bangkok (and immediately broke up with the GF who was pressing me to participate in the scam).  And Joe left Thailand without Khun A.  

 

 

So,  this story seems to be over. Maybe better this way, Khun A wouldn't probably be too happy with an average uneducated husband. 

 

What are "Thai scams" btw?

[Thaidream]

I believe the OP handled it well-   if Joe had never asked, I would have never mentioned anything but I would have dumped all three- Joe- for being a fool;  and the 2 girls for even considerations using me to trap someone into a bad marriage.

 

The World is filled with people like this but I have found that many Thai women lack any moral compass whether they be bar girls or from wealthy families.  Lying is a national pastime and accepted as a way to save face or get what one desires.

[animalmagic]

32 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

Who said that it only happened in Thailand? I missed that post.

Original post referred to good v bad Thai girls.  I inferred Thailand from that; my rationale was that the nationality of the girl was irrelevant.

[smotherb]

23 hours ago, johng said:

I would like a "good bad girl" once in a while..unfortunately i'm happily married.

Or a bad good girl--a lady in public, but an overtly sexual person in the bedroom

[newatthis]

22 hours ago, Horace said:

OK, I thought about scooting fast, but I was in Chiang Mai Song Kran so travel was not really a viable option and that did not seem like the right thing to do.  To be honest, if I could have run, I might have, but I didn't.

 

I considered not doing anything, but I was asked, so I had no choice.

 

Agree that there was myopia here, and that is sort of my point.

 

The story is "real".  My apologies if it doesn't reach your literary standards, but I also don't care.  

 

Johng, I sort of did what you suggested.  I told Joe that it was up to him, but  he had been deceived, and that he was getting into a marriage with a woman that had deceived him to get US citizenship.  That was the goal. In other words, without saying "flee" I set out all of the reasons why he should flee.

 

A few points that maybe a few will see as trivial (but everyone):  

 

First, this divide between "good" and "bad" Thai girls is nonsense.  Cultures vary and, IMHO, this culture encourages this sort of deception and fraud.  There is a reason why Thailand scores so poorly on corruption indices.  Its taught in even the best families. 

 

Second, Farangs, minding their own business (in this case me), do get drawn into Thai soap operas and fraud where they have no viable options.  In some posts I see a tendency to suggest that Farangs are responsible for what happens to them; they could have avoided getting entangled into Thai scams if they were more careful.  This is simply not true if you live here.  Its part of the local color. 

 

Oh, and nothing happened to me, except that I got a lot of icy stares and sharp comments on the flight back to Bangkok (and immediately broke up with the GF who was pressing me to participate in the scam).  And Joe left Thailand without Khun A.  

 

 

Well done! You saved Joe a lot of heartache.  Don't worry about the girls....they'll find somebody else to give a sob story to.

[smotherb]

Anyone can be bad. I can understand Khun A's predicament, she is a good girl in the eyes of her parents and wants to be married when she has the child. At least, she did a good thing by telling Joe it wasn't his kid. However, your girl--and so has Khun A, if she was involved in the threat of problems for you--has become a bad girl by telling you to tell a lie or else. 

 

If asked, I would tell the guy it was his decision, but I would not marry a girl carrying another man's child. I would tell your girl that I do not put up with threats and finish it.