UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[mommysboy]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

I agree with you about the weak leader, but let us thank our lucky stars that the tuther lot are not in power.

So you keep saying!

 

Only one is proven to be useless!

 

Brainwashed.

[vogie]

Just now, mommysboy said:

So you keep saying!

 

Only one is proven to be useless!

 

Brainwashed.

Are you saying I'm brainwashed?

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, mommysboy said:

Whilst it is not exactly what I wanted, I voted to leave so that is what I will get.

 

At any cost? I doubt it very much.  You wanted it all and very likely will get nothing!

What do you mean by "At any cost?" ?

 

You're taking the typical remainer stance that the uk would be better served by a 'bad deal',  rather than 'no deal'?

 

Yes, the majority of those who voted - voted to leave, and if the end result is a 'leave in name only' deal - you can be sure that a large proportion of the electorate (who voted leave) will be more than unhappy.

 

The politicians are playing games -hoping to scare brit. voters - and personally, I'm more than tired of their 'games'.

 

Politicians were trusted even less than used-car salesmen in the last survey I read - which doesn't suprise me in the slightest ☹️!

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

What do you mean by "At any cost?" ?

 

You're taking the typical remainer stance that the uk would be better served by a 'bad deal',  rather than 'no deal'?

 

Yes, the majority of those who voted - voted to leave, and if the end result is a 'leave in name only' deal - you can be sure that a large proportion of the electorate (who voted leave) will be more than unhappy.

 

The politicians are playing games -hoping to scare brit. voters - and personally, I'm more than tired of their 'games'.

 

Politicians were trusted even less than used-car salesmen in the last survey I read - which doesn't suprise me in the slightest ☹️!

“Yes, the majority of those who voted - voted to leave, and if the end result is a 'leave in name only' deal - you can be sure that a large proportion of the electorate (who voted leave) will be more than unhappy.”

 

The only way to be sure what the electorate think of the final deal is by putting it to a vote.

 

Edited September 22, 2018 by Chomper Higgot

[mommysboy]

12 minutes ago, vogie said:

Are you saying I'm brainwashed?

yes

[vogie]

Just now, mommysboy said:

yes

Well one thing I won't do is to sink to your level and start a name calling game.

[mommysboy]

7 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

What do you mean by "At any cost?" ?

 

You're taking the typical remainer stance that the uk would be better served by a 'bad deal',  rather than 'no deal'?

 

Yes, the majority of those who voted - voted to leave, and if the end result is a 'leave in name only' deal - you can be sure that a large proportion of the electorate (who voted leave) will be more than unhappy.

 

The politicians are playing games -hoping to scare brit. voters - and personally, I'm more than tired of their 'games'.

 

Politicians were trusted even less than used-car salesmen in the last survey I read - which doesn't suprise me in the slightest ☹️!

The majority voted to leave on an assumed free trade deal.  They did not vote on the assumption of a crap deal or no deal.  It will be judged on whether there is a free trade deal! That's the pound of flesh required!

 

 

[Srikcir]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

putting it to a vote

By Parliament or another referendum?

[mommysboy]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

Well one thing I won't do is to sink to your level and start a name calling game.

It's not name calling, it's an observation.

 

In my opinion, you are likely brainwashed by the media's portrayal of Corbyn.  But as a matter of logic, it would be very difficult to be any worse than the present shower. 

[aright]

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

"Don't know" and "assume" says it all

 

UPDATE: On the 6^th July, The Cabinet of the United Kingdom agreed its position on the UK’s exit from the European Union. We take a look at how this may affect your CE Marking Obligations.

The cabinet agreed that the UK should maintain a common rulebook for all goods within the UK and EU following Brexit. The Government seems willing to commit to a treaty allowing ongoing harmonisation with European rules (which would by definition include CE Marking legislation) but would retain the ability to choose which future legislation it may decide to incorporate into UK law. There was also an implicit suggestion that this would only be done in the best interest of UK manufacturers.

The Government is also keen to maintain the UK’s strong position on the various International Standards Bodies on which it currently sits, effectively giving the UK leverage over the factors underpinning EU legislation if not over EU legislation itself. A full transcript of the Government statement following the Chequers agreement can be found here:

It should be stressed that this is currently only a proposal at present and will require agreement from both the UK parliament and the EU.

Should the UK Parliament and the EU agree to this model, it would suggest very little change to the current system in terms of product compliance however questions would still remain over the UK’s position in the ‘Community’ for certain aspects of the process and as such it may pay to continue to assume that the UK will sit outside of the Community following Brexit.

https://www.cemarkingassociation.co.uk/brexit-and-ce-marking-update-july-2018/

 

On ‎9‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 10:21 AM, aright said:

 

"Can you point to the business communities world wide who will stop dealing with the EU because of these costs"

 

As requested Specific Countries and Businesses who claim they will no longer trade with the EU because of onerous certification costs please with links? If you can't address the answer head on don't bother replying we recognize your nannie and your project. 

 

 

The vested interests of the CE Marking Association which will likely disappear after exit do not  answer the question I posed as a result of your dependence on Project Fear to support an argument. The questions in my post above have been asked numerous times and you don't answer in any constructive way. The process is fairly straightforward, names of Countries and Businesses please, otherwise its game set and match.

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

It's not name calling, it's an observation.

 

In my opinion, you are likely brainwashed by the media's portrayal of Corbyn.  But as a matter of logic, it would be very difficult to be any worse than the present shower. 

So the Medias portrayal of Corbyn is wrong, he does not call terrorists his friends, his sidekick McDonnall didn't want to give medals to the IRA for blowing up British citizens and soldiers and has plaques of IRA martyrs on his office wall and the scholar Dianne Abbott isn't a racist. If these are the people you want to lead the Brexit talks well go for it because I certainly don't, does that really make me "brainwashed". No reply needed.

[dick dasterdly]

33 minutes ago, oilinki said:

EU has patiently waited for UK to get it's act together. UK failed.

 

Now EU has started to say what we all think about the mess in the UK.

 

If this turns British people towards hard brexit, so be it. It doesn't matter anymore. Brexit is likely to be a huge failure for both sides and will create huge separation between EU and UK. That also doesn't matter anymore. UK will move towards Trumpland and EU will continue its own European course.

 

"UK will move towards Trumpland"

 

Ignoring the anti-trump rhetoric (and I understand why so many voted for the appalling trump...) - I also fear that the uk will become ever more 'capitalist' once it leaves the eu.

 

UK politicians are determined not to leave the eu (for various reasons that boil down to them personally, losing out financially) - and of course, the eu is very worried about losing out on the money provided by the uk....

 

Hence the current fiasco as uk politicians desperately try to find a way to 'leave in name only' - without most of them losing their seats at the next election ?.

[aright]

7 minutes ago, vogie said:

So the Medias portrayal of Corbyn is wrong, he does not call terrorists his friends, his sidekick McDonnall didn't want to give medals to the IRA for blowing up British citizens and soldiers and has plaques of IRA martyrs on his office wall and the scholar Dianne Abbott isn't a racist. If these are the people you want to lead the Brexit talks well go for it because I certainly don't, does that really make me "brainwashed". No reply needed.

You should also add he is on his third wife (one mistake is forgivable) and he had an affair with Diane Abbott who must have the pictures because she has certainly reaped the reward. He's not really electable even from a social point of view.

[dick dasterdly]

34 minutes ago, vogie said:

Are you saying I'm brainwashed?

You've missed out on the constant refrain of remainers.

 

Those who don't support remain are either stupid or, brainwashed by the russians ?.

[mommysboy]

18 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

"UK will move towards Trumpland"

 

Ignoring the anti-trump rhetoric (and I understand why so many voted for the appalling trump...) - I also fear that the uk will become ever more 'capitalist' once it leaves the eu.

 

UK politicians are determined not to leave the eu (for various reasons that boil down to them personally, losing out financially) - and of course, the eu is very worried about losing out on the money provided by the uk....

 

Hence the current fiasco as uk politicians desperately try to find a way to 'leave in name only' - without most of them losing their seats at the next election ?.

 

It's very simple- people don't want a no deal Brexit or the crappy Chequer's deal. You believe in democracy and the will of the people, don't you?

 

 

[dick dasterdly]

23 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

It's not name calling, it's an observation.

 

In my opinion, you are likely brainwashed by the media's portrayal of Corbyn.  But as a matter of logic, it would be very difficult to be any worse than the present shower. 

I'm more than annoyed at your 'observation'....

 

How on earth do you get away with calling another poster "brainwashed", because they disagree with your opinion?? ?

 

I feel the same way about remainers, but know better than to accuse those with whom I disagree of being "brainwashed".

 

Previously, I'd considered you a reasonable poster.  I now know better....

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

UK politicians are determined not to leave the eu (for various reasons that boil down to them personally, losing out financially) - and of course, the eu is very worried about losing out on the money provided by the uk....

If you think that finances played a major role, why many of us EU citizens wanted UK to stay within EU, you are very, very wrong. But that doesn't matter anymore as the roads have been separated for good.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

It's very simple- people don't want a no deal Brexit or the crappy Chequer's deal. You believe in democracy and the will of the people, don't you?

I personally believe in people, but democracy not so much as it's the power hungry people who tend to rise to the top of the politics. Not the most qualified ones.

[transam]

3 minutes ago, oilinki said:

If you think that finances played a major role, why many of us EU citizens wanted UK to stay within EU, you are very, very wrong. But that doesn't matter anymore as the roads have been separated for good.

?....The EU found the UK is one they cannot hoodwink, control..The UK has tried the EU thing and is moving on...YOUR country can carry on with the EU stuff...Have fun..

[Srikcir]

9 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Not the most qualified ones.

Wouldn't also be true in a democracy that politicians rise or fall to the level of the lowest common denominator of voter ideology? Lack of qualifications may thus not be an issue to voters. US currently case in point.

[TKDfella]

I note that yesterday the PM made a statement;

 

PM Brexit negotiations statement 21 September 2018 - GOV.pdf

[sandyf]

6 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

Actually aright and sandyf were discussing CE certification, not integrated supply chains. As aright has pointed out, there will obviously be a difference after the UK exits, but the impact isn't clear at all. As with most of the brexit discussion, it's not something that can be reduced to snappy one-liners on forums. As sandy has pointed out, the UK bodies currently licensed to obtain the CE mark will presumably not be able to do so after the UK exits. But there are many levels and types of certification, and self-certification is possible, depending on the risk profile of the product.

 

Responsibility for CE marking lies with whoever puts the product into the EU market, for example an EU-based manufacturer, the importer or distributor of a product made outside the EU, or an EU-based office of a non-EU manufacturer.

 

Many non-EU manufacturers currently export to the EU, so it's not a problem that should be over-exaggerated. But it does need to be understood (not necessarily by this forum, unless we have UK-to-EU exporters here, which we seem not to have).

 

All UK products currently exported by the UK to the EU have the appropriate level of certification already. Hard to see why new certification would be required for these products.

 

As has been pointed out many times, on exit day1, all regulations and standards will be fully aligned.

 

There are a few inaccuracies in this post.

 

"But there are many levels and types of certification, and self-certification is possible, depending on the risk profile of the product."

There is only one type of certification for any particular product. All laid out in the tables of this document.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32008D0768&from=EN

 

"Responsibility for CE marking lies with whoever puts the product into the EU market,"

Responsibility for CE marking lies with the manufacturer. Many of the Asian manufacturers refuse to accept the cost of trading with the EU and farm it out to a representative, It is all spelled out in great detail in the above document but here is a condensed version, the representative becomes the manufacturer.

 

If importers or distributors market the products under their own names, they take over the manufacturer’s responsibilities. In this case, they must have sufficient information on the design and production of the product because they will be assuming the legal responsibility when affixing the CE marking.
https://ec.europa.eu/growth/single-market/ce-marking/importers-distributors_en

 

"Hard to see why new certification would be required for these products."

In a nutshell, notified body certificates will have to come from within the EU.

 

Economic operators are advised to take the necessary steps to ensure that, where the
applicable conformity assessment procedures require the intervention of a Notified Body,
they will hold certificates issued by an EU-27 Notified Body to demonstrate compliance
for their products placed on the market as from the withdrawal date.
https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/files/file_import/industrial_products_en_1.pdf

 

"Many non-EU manufacturers currently export to the EU, so it's not a problem that should be over-exaggerated."

These non EU manufacturers must also have a CE mark on their product, and they must have an agent within the EU, many chose the UK to obtain the mark. Why do you think that the UK has more notified bodies than any other country in the EU, only Germany and Italy come anywhere near close. But obviously it does not mean a great deal to some putting them out of business, Germany will be more than happy to pick up the revenue from them and the UK.

BSI has moved their CE department for medical devices to the Netherlands so as not to lose the business. Ok for the big boys, it is those that can least afford it that are going to lose out, just more brexit collateral damage.

 

 

[My Thai Life]

15 minutes ago, sandyf said:

There are a few inaccuracies in this post.

If there are then you haven't actually identified any, just indulged in the usual semantic game based on deliberate misreading of other people's posts. I remember you saying you worked on the certification of a gas related producted, sitting on a committee in the early 80's I think you said. This hardly makes you an expert in the field. If you were you would provide us with some useful experience-based insight rather than the usual cut and paste and antagonism.

[My Thai Life]

2 hours ago, mommysboy said:

The majority voted to leave on an assumed free trade deal. 

I agree, but many remainers have been disagreeing with this position ever since the referendum.

 

The events in Salzburg have put us back on track for a free-trade deal, as has been proposed by Rees-Mogg & co, Barnier and Tusk. 

[tebee]

27 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

I agree, but many remainers have been disagreeing with this position ever since the referendum.

 

The events in Salzburg have put us back on track for a free-trade deal, as has been proposed by Rees-Mogg & co, Barnier and Tusk. 

Yes but a FTA has been on offer for ages, but the government seems to have rejected it, presumably because they know how much it will damage the economy.

 

Also does nothing to solve the Irish problem.

[aright]

32 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

I agree, but many remainers have been disagreeing with this position ever since the referendum.

 

The events in Salzburg have put us back on track for a free-trade deal, as has been proposed by Rees-Mogg & co, Barnier and Tusk. 

I like the Rees-Mogg Canada plus deal and with the right negotiators feel it could become a Canada plus plus deal, on the other hand I also have no objection to a no deal-no money-no fish deal,  at the least it should be prominent in the armory. Either  way I want out . It will be good to get away from a Union which seems to have no answer to record unemployment, bank bailing out, extreme right wing political parties and dealing with millions of third world migrants. If any Remainers can point me to a link showing the Commissions plans to deal with these problems I would be grateful.

 

[tebee]

39 minutes ago, aright said:

I like the Rees-Mogg Canada plus deal and with the right negotiators feel it could become a Canada plus plus deal, on the other hand I also have no objection to a no deal-no money-no fish deal,  at the least it should be prominent in the armory. Either  way I want out . It will be good to get away from a Union which seems to have no answer to record unemployment, bank bailing out, extreme right wing political parties and dealing with millions of third world migrants. If any Remainers can point me to a link showing the Commissions plans to deal with these problems I would be grateful.

 

I'm not exactly sure what plan's the UK has for these either ?

 

and we are rapidly running out of time to negotiate a FTA

 

"Brexit negotiations are not inherently more difficult than others, they have been made so by the UK Government's persistent failure to decide on a course which is capable of being negotiated."

[aright]

14 minutes ago, tebee said:

I'm not exactly sure what plan's the UK has for these either ?

 

and we are rapidly running out of time to negotiate a FTA

 

"Brexit negotiations are not inherently more difficult than others, they have been made so by the UK Government's persistent failure to decide on a course which is capable of being negotiated."

Why would the UK want to have plans about record unemployment  ……..we have record employment, extreme right wing political MP's and parties.....we don't have any, the bailing out of banks... UK banks are in rude health ( my share portfolio in British Banks has made more money in the last three years than any other category).....third world migrants.....when we leave the doors will be closed.

As for your perceived inability to decide on a course I would reserve that question until negotiations are finished.

Do you have any leads on how the EU is going to solve it's problems that you can share or are you like so many Remainers more concerned with the integrity of the single market than the integrity of the democratic state.? 

[mommysboy]

4 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'm more than annoyed at your 'observation'....

 

How on earth do you get away with calling another poster "brainwashed", because they disagree with your opinion?? ?

 

I feel the same way about remainers, but know better than to accuse those with whom I disagree of being "brainwashed".

 

Previously, I'd considered you a reasonable poster.  I now know better....

Had you checked this was in reference to opinions about the Labour leadership. It is well known Corbyn in particular is made to look a fool in the media. Brainwahed because people take it as read.  In fact, when the press had to be unbiased at the time of election, his popularity soared,

[Guest]

4 hours ago, transam said:

?....The EU found the UK is one they cannot hoodwink, control..The UK has tried the EU thing and is moving on...YOUR country can carry on with the EU stuff...Have fun..

Yes, UK is heading it's own, separate direction. 

 

Unless there is some grand tectonic movement in the near future, UK will still stay physically rather close to EU, even if it's mentality is getting closer to USA.

 

We kind of need to get along after the brexit.