UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[bristolboy]

5 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

There have been many posted here on this thread - you chose not to see them.

Your daily postings about the dire economic consequences of Brexit are not supported by the economc forecasts. I have mde this point several times.

 

 

 

Which economic forecasts? Those based on a hard brexit?

[Patriot1066]

1 minute ago, bristolboy said:

Putin will support anything especially if it's beneficial for the UK. He's such an Anglophile!

The remainers always use the Putin argument why would Putin suport leave it’s probably to his disadvantage as we get closer trade and military oartnerships with the US

 

Or are you suggesting as we are one of only three countries in Europe that meet our NATO commitment, so we need to prop up the rest of the EU only only spend 1% of GDP on defence?

[My Thai Life]

Further to mommyboy's news about the possibility of a deal for Financial Services (from today's Telegraph):

 

"In March, Philip Hammond warned the EU's existing regulatory equivalence regime was "wholly inadequate for the scale and complexity of UK-EU financial services trade", in part because it allows Brussels to unilaterally end the relationship with little or no notice.

The blueprint reported in The Times would appear to address some of those concerns, with neither side able to unilaterally declare regulations have fallen out of equivalence and block access to their markets without first going through independent arbitration and providing a notice period significantly longer than the current 30 days."

 

So this is the "equivalence" regime which I referred to as a possibility when I first joined this thread a few months ago, in response to one of the doom-mongers who could only see the sky falling in. However, it's important to wait and see what the details are, in particular any accompanying regulations.

Edited November 1, 2018 by My Thai Life

[Patriot1066]

9 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Which economic forecasts? Those based on a hard brexit?

You seem to miss understand there is no such thing as a hard Brexit.

 

The term was first used by Vince Cable who’s main achievement was selling Royal Mail for half its value.

 

remain have used it as project fear 2.

 

There is only Brexit which is leaving the EU and it’s institutions. Not hard but Brexit, quiet simple in fact.

[bristolboy]

3 minutes ago, Patriot1066 said:

The remainers always use the Putin argument why would Putin suport leave it’s probably to his disadvantage as we get closer trade and military oartnerships with the US

 

Or are you suggesting as we are one of only three countries in Europe that meet our NATO commitment, so we need to prop up the rest of the EU only only spend 1% of GDP on defence?

Russian trolls sent thousands of pro-Leave messages on day of Brexit referendum, Twitter data reveals

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/10/17/russian-iranian-twitter-trolls-sent-10-million-tweets-fake-news/

[Patriot1066]

4 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

Further to mommyboy's news about the possibility of a deal for Financial Services (from today's Telegraph):

 

"In March, Philip Hammond warned the EU's existing regulatory equivalence regime was "wholly inadequate for the scale and complexity of UK-EU financial services trade", in part because it allows Brussels to unilaterally end the relationship with little or no notice.

The blueprint reported in The Times would appear to address some of those concerns, with neither side able to unilaterally declare regulations have fallen out of equivalence and block access to their markets without first going through independent arbitration and providing a notice period significantly longer than the current 30 days."

 

So this is the "equivalence" regime which I referred to as a possibility when I first joined this thread a few months ago, in response to one of the doom-mongers who could only see the sky falling in. However, it's important to wait and see what the details are, in particular any accompanying regulations.

Indeed and some compromise will be required in this. If they do not sort a deal with us they will be in #hit street in March as their own financial services can’t do what london does.

[Patriot1066]

1 minute ago, bristolboy said:

Russian trolls sent thousands of pro-Leave messages on day of Brexit referendum, Twitter data reveals

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/10/17/russian-iranian-twitter-trolls-sent-10-million-tweets-fake-news/

Yea so and George Soros pays for the ‘millionaire vote’ sorry ‘people’s vote’ shall we say no to foreign people influencing elections? I hope so!

 

When people who brought our financial systems down like Soros tell me to do anything I start to worry.

 

this Putin thing is just anouther remainers element of project fear.

 

can you defend the foreign influence from Soros’es money in our political system or is it ok?

[bristolboy]

8 minutes ago, Patriot1066 said:

Yea so and George Soros pays for the ‘millionaire vote’ sorry ‘people’s vote’ shall we say no to foreign people influencing elections? I hope so!

 

When people who brought our financial systems down like Soros tell me to do anything I start to worry.

 

this Putin thing is just anouther remainers element of project fear.

 

can you defend the foreign influence from Soros’es money in our political system or is it ok?

You mean like from Rober Mercer, the American hedge fund billionaire and major backer of Trump? Who illegally supported the Brexit movement. Your concerns seem very one-sided.

[Patriot1066]

8 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

You mean like from Rober Mercer, the American hedge fund billionaire and major backer of Trump? Who illegally supported the Brexit movement. Your concerns seem very one-sided.

Mercer didn’t put money into Brexit where did you hear of that? It’s not something I have heated of and Obama came and prepared the Line speech obviously written by Cameron.

in fact Trump has said very little on Brexit an odd comment is different to Soros paying for the most of the ‘miionairs vote’

 

or di you not see Soros as having so much influence wrong?

[mommysboy]

34 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

Further to mommyboy's news about the possibility of a deal for Financial Services (from today's Telegraph):

 

"In March, Philip Hammond warned the EU's existing regulatory equivalence regime was "wholly inadequate for the scale and complexity of UK-EU financial services trade", in part because it allows Brussels to unilaterally end the relationship with little or no notice.

The blueprint reported in The Times would appear to address some of those concerns, with neither side able to unilaterally declare regulations have fallen out of equivalence and block access to their markets without first going through independent arbitration and providing a notice period significantly longer than the current 30 days."

 

So this is the "equivalence" regime which I referred to as a possibility when I first joined this thread a few months ago, in response to one of the doom-mongers who could only see the sky falling in. However, it's important to wait and see what the details are, in particular any accompanying regulations.

Yes, equivalence was always the trump card and a face saver for all concerned.  And in fact, that is what we have from day one of leaving the EU.  The threat over the financial sector only ever applied to the retail arm in any case.  

[Patriot1066]

2 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Yes, equivalence was always the trump card and a face saver for all concerned.  And in fact, that is what we have from day one of leaving the EU.  The threat over the financial sector only ever applied to the retail arm in any case.  

Yes banks and solicitors are still moving staff into London and taking office space so you do wonder about project fear?

[bristolboy]

9 minutes ago, Patriot1066 said:

Mercer didn’t put money into Brexit where did you hear of that? It’s not something I have heated of and Obama came and prepared the Line speech obviously written by Cameron.

in fact Trump has said very little on Brexit an odd comment is different to Soros paying for the most of the ‘miionairs vote’

 

or di you not see Soros as having so much influence wrong?

Look up Cambridge Analytica.

Was Soros' contribution illegal?

Because Cambridge Analytica's was.

[Patriot1066]

17 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Look up Cambridge Analytica.

Was Soros' contribution illegal?

Because Cambridge Analytica's was.

Debatable if it was or just Cambridge was looked at for political reasons.

 

Would you though agree that no foreign donors should be able to contribute on either side?

[Patriot1066]

19 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Look up Cambridge Analytica.

Was Soros' contribution illegal?

Because Cambridge Analytica's was.

Sorry forgot to add. Remain had twice the funds of Leave so if there was some miss spending leave still had the financial advantage.

 

going back further it seems the Tories miss used campaign funds or Farage would have been an MP. That could have made the leave vote even bigger?

[Orac]

Sorry forgot to add. Remain had twice the funds of Leave so if there was some miss spending leave still had the financial advantage.
 
going back further it seems the Tories miss used campaign funds or Farage would have been an MP. That could have made the leave vote even bigger?

Given that Farage has failed to be elected as an MP seven times including on one occasion being beaten by a man dressed as a dolphin, I am not sure it is his level of funding that his making him so unpopular in U.K. parliamentary elections


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[Patriot1066]

6 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

 

Given that Farage has failed to be elected as an MP seven times including on one occasion being beaten by a man dressed as a dolphin, I am not sure it is his level of funding that his making him so unpopular in U.K. parliamentary elections


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Yes dolphin man was hilarious!! he had a real chance of winning though this time, but lots of resources put in to stop him.

[Patriot1066]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

Bannockburn 1314 (I think)

I like Hastings is nice very quaint and English. And they do bob on good value car insurance.

 

yes we lost.

 

Harold was killed but we fought hard against two foreign armies heavily outnumbered.

 

Harold had won at Stamford Bridge having lost at Fullford shortly before, but his army was not well organised and the other two armies had lots of mercenaries and trained battle hardened fighters, where as his was mainly peasant farmers most likely conscripted, he assembled during his march South with more basic weapons and lacking military training.

 

Must have been some horrible ways to die but better die a patriot than a coward.

 

Despite us loosing we we tried to defend our then king Harold So I am proud of my screen name thankyou????

[Patriot1066]

Bannock burn was much later 1315?and we lost to the Scots or actually didn’t loose retreated and re grouped 

 

but it were repelled 

[Orac]

10 minutes ago, Patriot1066 said:

Yes dolphin man was hilarious!! he had a real chance of winning though this time, but lots of resources put in to stop him.

 

To be fair Farage looks quite reasonable compared to UKIPs current leader who takes incompetence to a whole new level. Interesting that fishing is back in the conversation again as we have seen here today, just a shame that Batten slept in when he was supposed to be talking about it in front of the fishmongers at Lowestoft yesterday.

 

 

 

 

[Grouse]

5 hours ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

If this is factual, then it is yet more proof of the EUs cronyism with regard to big business, whilst acquiescing to the trampling of independent fishermen and their livelihoods. 'Looking after the little people' once again. I would doubt the veracity of those claims re: larger business too, take a look at what has happened to places like Grimsby and Fleetwood as a reality check.

Fleetwood is coming to Wembley Stadium next June!

[Grouse]

5 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

well,

fisheries are crucial for Greenland, much more than it is in UK,

its their lifeblood really

 

Greenland opting out is not the most violent boat rocking for EU,

huge landmasses and ice masses, about 55 000 people I think,

the fisheries are very valuable though - and there might be oil/gas in the surroundings one thinks now

 

talkin about ice,

its a gimmick, but OK, in better supermarkets in Norway you can buy plastic bags with cut ice from Greenland

to chill down your drinks

have tried it a few times - it is different - the ice is about 2000 years old and created/stored under extremely high pressure

 

Greenland is more sovereign now than when it left EEC.

I think both Denmark and Greenland want to get rid of each other, but Denmark is still a fair amount of foreign policy 

related stuff on Greenland's behalf.

 

I'll try that in my Grouse. Less air so denser I imagine. I once made the error here of suggesting that colder ice would be good. I was wrong. No, really. I now understand that most of the energy is from latent heat of fusion not the temperature.

 

latent heat of fusion water j/kg

 

Stop sniggering at the back Nauseus!

Edited November 1, 2018 by Grouse

[billd766]

4 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Your comment addresses another question I was holding in reserve: Are these quotas actually restricting fishing from small boats are are they simply reflective of the fact that there's not a lot of capacity in that sector?

Perhaps there is not a lot of capacity in that area due to the restrictions on the size of the catch.

[Grouse]

7 hours ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

'what happened to Stamford Bridge?, battle that is'

 

Sanglac (could be from old French - lake of blood) or Santlache (sand lake), in old English it was perhaps 'Senlac' - and it's been suggested that the Normans nicknamed the area 'blood lake' as a pun on the English 'sand lake', after the victory, which was very narrowly won by them, taking 6 or more hours to decide and which could have gone either way at a number of points throughout, so contemporaries reported. 

 

'The Norman chroniclers William of Jumièges and William of Poitiers who were contemporary with the Battle of Hastings did not record the site of the battle as Senlac and the Chronicle of Battle Abbey simply recorded the location in Latin as Bellum (Battle)'

'Later documents however indicate that the abbey had a tract of land known as Santlache (Sandlake) with the name Sandlake continuing for several centuries as a tithing in Battle'

 

What a lot of people don't realise is that Harold Godwinson and his army had been waiting for months for William 'the Bastard' to sail across the channel and engage them, but due to inclement weather he didn't do so. HG and his army had in fact just defeated a fighting force that had besieged the East Yorkshire village of Stamford Bridge after landing on it's nearby coast in Sept of 1066. Tostig (Harold G's little bro) had sought the assistance of the fearsome Harald Hardrada (king of Norway) in enacting revenge on his older brother and taking the crown of England in the process. So after annihilating a notorious Viking army after marching from Wessex on foot to Yorkshire, they then had to march back to the Sussex coast and do battle with the Normans (descendants of Vikings themselves) over 250 miles away only 3 weeks later. A hardy and industrious bunch those Anglo-Saxons!

 

Off topic I know but I love history so couldn't help myself. ????

Great stuff, keep it coming

 

Alfred would be a better exemplar than St George for sure! Or AEthelstan even better!

 

Did you ever visit Winchester Cathedral to see the remains of the Anglo Saxon kings? (as you know, but some may not, Winchester was the capital before London) Anyway Cromwell's "model army" smashed all the casks so that they're all mixed up! 

Edited November 1, 2018 by Grouse

[billd766]

3 hours ago, mommysboy said:

Good news!  The prospect of a deal on financial services.

 

My opinion and guess (if that's ok with Bildy!????)- this was always going to happen as it's the one sector where the EU needs the UK more.  I have said this right from the start as hopefully veteran posters will agree.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/01/brexit-deal-on-financial-services-agreed-report

Well it is great news IF it happens but the report is full of ifs, buts and maybes with a tentative and an unsubstantiated rumour in there too.

 

This is why I tend to ignore stuff like this until it is cast in concrete and confirmed in writing.

 

I am neither a pessimist nor an optimist just a guy who doesn't believe all that is written.

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, Patriot1066 said:

You seem to miss understand there is no such thing as a hard Brexit.

 

The term was first used by Vince Cable who’s main achievement was selling Royal Mail for half its value.

 

remain have used it as project fear 2.

 

There is only Brexit which is leaving the EU and it’s institutions. Not hard but Brexit, quiet simple in fact.

Silly/specious.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, Patriot1066 said:

I like Hastings is nice very quaint and English. And they do bob on good value car insurance.

 

yes we lost.

 

Harold was killed but we fought hard against two foreign armies heavily outnumbered.

 

Harold had won at Stamford Bridge having lost at Fullford shortly before, but his army was not well organised and the other two armies had lots of mercenaries and trained battle hardened fighters, where as his was mainly peasant farmers most likely conscripted, he assembled during his march South with more basic weapons and lacking military training.

 

Must have been some horrible ways to die but better die a patriot than a coward.

 

Despite us loosing we we tried to defend our then king Harold So I am proud of my screen name thankyou????

You will recall Harold's last words?

 

[Watch what you're doing with that arrow! You'll poke someone's eye out.]

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, Patriot1066 said:

The remainers always use the Putin argument why would Putin suport leave it’s probably to his disadvantage as we get closer trade and military oartnerships with the US

 

Or are you suggesting as we are one of only three countries in Europe that meet our NATO commitment, so we need to prop up the rest of the EU only only spend 1% of GDP on defence?

You really want to force the Germans to spend 2% of 3 trillion per annum on defence. Any idea how many Leopard IIs that would buy.

 

No, nonsense. Enjoy the peace dividend and stop pissing off Russia by parking tanks on their front lawn.

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Look up Cambridge Analytica.

Was Soros' contribution illegal?

Because Cambridge Analytica's was.

Don't bring up CA for goodness sake. The average Brexiter will NEVER understand ????

[melvinmelvin]

41 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I'll try that in my Grouse. Less air so denser I imagine. I once made the error here of suggesting that colder ice would be good. I was wrong. No, really. I now understand that most of the energy is from latent heat of fusion not the temperature.

 

latent heat of fusion water j/kg

 

Stop sniggering at the back Nauseus!

 

yes,

very high density Grouse chiller

 

there is a video somewhere in which you can see the Norwegian PM dragging the UN sec-gen along on a naval ship

around Svalbard- Iceland - Greenland - the pole / looking at problems from melting ice

to visualize to the small Korean man the importance of climate control

 

on occasions they enjoy a nip with 2000 year old ice on deck, the Korean is in ave

 

[Stupooey]

6 hours ago, Grouse said:

Bannockburn 1314 (I think)

British won.