UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[kwilco]

On 10/22/2018 at 5:07 PM, talahtnut said:

After all the years since we have been in the EU, how much better off is the UK population?

To me it seems that the lunatic asylum joined a bigger lunatic asylum.

 

You really know?

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

Having seen how quickly and the numbers that turn up for the likes of Tommy Robinson HMG should tread very carefully indeed before trying any such caper.

yeah, right.

[melvinmelvin]

GALILEO

 

Now that some bits seem to fall into place,

any more news re UK and Galileo?

 

 

[tebee]

52 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

This has not been agreed. What you are saying is fake news. You get more like Trump by the day.

 

58 minutes ago, tebee said:

Common travel area has nothing to to with it - this is a customs problem.

 

They are proposing what is effectively a customs tunnel through the UK - an Irish truck traveling through the UK is sealed and presumed never to have left the customs union. 

 

 

You seem to not understand the meaning of the word "proposing"?  

[tebee]

58 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

Several solutions have been proposed for the Irish "problem". You need to read more widely if you really wish to grasp the issues. 

Several solutions have been proposed for the Irish "problem".  - yes indeed, but as far as i'm aware they've all been rejected by one party or another.

 

Is there now one that has general acceptance by all parties?

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

What ever Brexit the government eventually delivers there will be a good proportion of the Brexiters unhappy (+ all the remainers )  - it's turned into a lose - lose situation vote wise.

 

The compromises being bandied around now seem particularly bad, probably crashing the economy without gaining any of the freedoms the brexiters wanted  - you suggestion of Norway  being where the equilibrium should lead us seem sensible - I just don't see evidence of sense being around at the moment. 

Stop with the negative waves Tebee, have a little faith ???? :

 

 

[nauseus]

45 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

GALILEO

 

Now that some bits seem to fall into place,

any more news re UK and Galileo?

 

 

They seem to have problems locating all of the bits. ????

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

Common travel area has nothing to to with it - this is a customs problem.

 

They are proposing what is effectively a customs tunnel through the UK - an Irish truck traveling through the UK is sealed and presumed never to have left the customs union. 

 

Livestock?

[Guest]

So it seems that Britain is going to stay at EU's customs union. Well that's fine. 

 

In that way UK will not lose many of it's businesses and outside of EU, UK is not able to hinder further integration development of the EU which are urgently required to solve various issues inside EU. 

 

That's almost like eating the cake and keeping it. 

[damascase]

5 minutes ago, oilinki said:

So it seems that Britain is going to stay at EU's customs union. Well that's fine. 

 

In that way UK will not lose many of it's businesses and outside of EU, UK is not able to hinder further integration development of the EU which are urgently required to solve various issues inside EU. 

 

That's almost like eating the cake and keeping it. 

I’m still wondering about staying in the Customs Union AND getting a Canada-type Agreement. Remaining in the CU would imply the acceptance/implementation of the EU’s many trade agreements, in my view. So I am very curious what the ‘solution’ is going to be......

[vinny41]

3 hours ago, kwilco said:

Irish trucksthe are in the EU and therefore don't require processing, so they will able to drive straight through.....just like UK trucks before Brexit.

Not according to the Irish Govt Hence this new ship

t is hoped its size will allow hundreds of thousands of additional tonnes of freight go to and from the Continent each year, bypassing Britain and the border controls and paperwork that may be inevitable if a hard Brexit becomes a reality.

Ireland in the EU France is in the EU the UK soon will be out of the EU  Irish trucks travelling from Dublin to France via the UK will be subject to checks and extra processing as we have been told many times you can't have you cake and eat it

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/brexit-busting-ferry-launched-from-dublin-port-1.3468760

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, damascase said:

I’m still wondering about staying in the Customs Union AND getting a Canada-type Agreement. Remaining in the CU would imply the acceptance/implementation of the EU’s many trade agreements, in my view. So I am very curious what the ‘solution’ is going to be......

Isn't Canada type free trade deal already included with the being an external member of the EU customs union?

 

Perhaps this could be a two step deal. First 5-10 years being inside customs union (without being a member of various EU programs). Meanwhile the free trade agreement is negotiated and when it's ready, UK can get out of the customs union and start using the Canada style agreement?

 

 

[damascase]

1 minute ago, oilinki said:

Isn't Canada type free trade deal already included with the being an external member of the EU customs union?

 

Perhaps this could be a two step deal. First 5-10 years being inside customs union (without being a member of various EU programs). Meanwhile the free trade agreement is negotiated and when it's ready, UK can get out of the customs union and start using the Canada style agreement?

 

 

Staying in the Customs Union temporarily, while negotiating an FTA, is a possibility, but in my view you cannot have both relationships at the same time - and the latter is suggested in the news.

[Guest]

Canada style deal, when implemented, could then include virtual customs union route from Ireland, through the England to France. The lorries which operate from Ireland to mainland EU are not allowed to pick or leave any goods inside England. 

 

The people who have been wanting to have a  tech solution to the border issues, could have their wish as well. All lorries to be included with realtime gps trackers to monitor their movements when in the England. 

 

 

[billd766]

3 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

 

Would you care to elaborate who "they" is.

tebee rarely gives links but does specialise in meaningless blanket statements.

[kwilco]

Do we need another referendum - apparently yes - I have never supported the general idea of referendums in a democracy - thy need to be well considered etc before being put forward and their legal status needs to be clear and any changes in constitution need to be a super-majority - however.......the lumpen masses who have no idea what democracy is, think referendums are "democratic", so we have to play that game - highly dubious though it is.

 

it is my firm belief that the only democratic way out of this mess is a general election - rid parliament of all MPs who keep changing their mind to suit which way the wind blows, get rid of May and Johnson and co., and put them on trial for treason.

 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2018 by kwilco

[Guest]

1 minute ago, damascase said:

Staying in the Customs Union temporarily, while negotiating an FTA, is a possibility, but in my view you cannot have both relationships at the same time - and the latter is suggested in the news.

What I meant to say that imho the Canada style deal is a subsum of the customs type deal. Therefore it's not valid, until UK exits the customs union. Only afterwards.

 

The news I read today was that UK is probably ready for temporary customs union deal. That would save the faces as well as businesses in the UK.

 

It would also give decent time for the two parties to make a sustainable deal for the long term future. Time is running now out and that is a decent solution.

 

Naturally the Northern Irish problem need to be solved during the time when UK is in customs union but in this way, Northern Ireland is likely stay within the UK.

 

 

[vinny41]

3 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

As far as I know the Common Travel Area covering the UK and Ireland doesn't cater for Irish trucks en route through the UK to France. I think that's probably what Vinny is getting at.

Correct the CTA agreement covers people only nothing else

The CTA predates the UK’s and Ireland’s entries into the European Communities in 1973 and governs the free movement of persons

 

https://brexitcentral.com/maintaining-common-travel-area-ireland-key-dublins-support-brexit-talks/

[damascase]

16 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Canada style deal, when implemented, could then include virtual customs union route from Ireland, through the England to France. The lorries which operate from Ireland to mainland EU are not allowed to pick or leave any goods inside England. 

 

The people who have been wanting to have a  tech solution to the border issues, could have their wish as well. All lorries to be included with realtime gps trackers to monitor their movements when in the England. 

 

Under an FTA between the UK and the EU, lorries between Ireland to the continental part of the EU could well operate under the Common Transit System, provided that the UK is willing to participate. That system is also used for traffic between EU-countries via Swiss territory.

Edited November 4, 2018 by damascase

[vinny41]

5 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Do we need another referendum - apparently yes - I have never supported the general idea of referendums in a democracy - thy need to be well considered etc before being put forward and their legal status needs to be clear and any changes in constitution need to be a super-majority - however.......the lumpen masses who have no idea what democracy is, think referendums are "democratic", so we have to play that game - highly dubious though it is.

 

it is my firm belief that the only democratic way out of this mess is a general election - rid parliament of all MPs who keep changing their mind to suit which way the wind blows, get rid of May and Johnson and co., and put them on trial for treason.

 

 

 

Mainly former business leaders  for the compaines that have shareholders the next shareholders meeting will be interesting as they try to explain how pissing off 17 million customers is good for their share price

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

Stop with the negative waves Tebee, have a little faith ???? :

The response in the movie was very simply: "crap". And lest we forget, a German Panzer tank was required to get the gold.

Edited November 4, 2018 by SheungWan

[SheungWan]

6 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Mainly former business leaders  for the compaines that have shareholders the next shareholders meeting will be interesting as they try to explain how pissing off 17 million customers is good for their share price

I thought Brexiteers all shopped at Poundland.

[SheungWan]

22 minutes ago, billd766 said:

tebee rarely gives links but does specialise in meaningless blanket statements.

Good job you don't.

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, oilinki said:

So it seems that Britain is going to stay at EU's customs union. Well that's fine. 

 

In that way UK will not lose many of it's businesses and outside of EU, UK is not able to hinder further integration development of the EU which are urgently required to solve various issues inside EU. 

 

That's almost like eating the cake and keeping it. 

Yes, it's almost like having your cake and eating it too.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

The response in the movie was very simply: "crap". And lest we forget, a German Panzer tank was required to get the gold.

You are just being negative again.

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

Not according to the Irish Govt Hence this new ship

t is hoped its size will allow hundreds of thousands of additional tonnes of freight go to and from the Continent each year, bypassing Britain and the border controls and paperwork that may be inevitable if a hard Brexit becomes a reality.

Ireland in the EU France is in the EU the UK soon will be out of the EU  Irish trucks travelling from Dublin to France via the UK will be subject to checks and extra processing as we have been told many times you can't have you cake and eat it

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/brexit-busting-ferry-launched-from-dublin-port-1.3468760

 

very unusual having a man doing such, is he gay by any chance?

 

the frogs will love this, straight into Belgium/Netherlands bypassing NW France

 

[vinny41]

4 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

very unusual having a man doing such, is he gay by any chance?

 

the frogs will love this, straight into Belgium/Netherlands bypassing NW France

 

Yes the Irish PM is gay and yes the French were not happy bunnys

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1002236/Brexit-news-France-ports-ireland-Brexit-eu-shipping-route-UK-trade

[melvinmelvin]

45 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Yes the Irish PM is gay and yes the French were not happy bunnys

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1002236/Brexit-news-France-ports-ireland-Brexit-eu-shipping-route-UK-trade

right,

not sure that I quite understand this

why does the Commission have a role in this at all?

Paddy organizes a cargo ship to take lorries/cargo from Ireland to Rotterdam.

so what?

Is there anything anywhere that prevents Paddy from transporting the way he fancies?

 

He could go up north then east and land in Germany. Could that be stopped?

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

right,

not sure that I quite understand this

why does the Commission have a role in this at all?

Paddy organizes a cargo ship to take lorries/cargo from Ireland to Rotterdam.

so what?

Is there anything anywhere that prevents Paddy from transporting the way he fancies?

 

He could go up north then east and land in Germany. Could that be stopped?

 

I don't think EU would have anything against ferrying goods directly from Ireland to France. 

 

Currently there is not enough ferry capacity. The distance is also far longer, so the delivery times and amount of ferries are greatly increased. 

[melvinmelvin]

2 minutes ago, oilinki said:

I don't think EU would have anything against ferrying goods directly from Ireland to France. 

 

Currently there is not enough ferry capacity. The distance is also far longer, so the delivery times and amount of ferries are greatly increased. 

what do you mean EU? what is EU?

 

why should anyone have any formal concern with where Paddy wants to land his wares?

France, ZeeBrugge, Rotterdam or Copenhagen/Venezia for that matter?