Must Read British Embassy Bangkok warns of the importance of having medical insurance

[Andycoops]

The scandal here is that as I am declared a non resident I have to pay for NHS care in the UK.

Because the system is based on residency. 

Disgraceful the same does not apply to income tax.

There for helping to fund a system which was I to use it would cost me 150% of the actual cost of treatment. 

[KhunFred]

Did they also warn them to be sure they QUALIFY for insurance??? Those in my age group are practically uninsurable. If there's a chance that they will have to pay a claim, you're out of luck. Insurance seems basically a scam here.

[anchadian]

Yes, medical insurance is a must

[ivor bigun]

Getting some kind of health Ins is better than nothing,  it may depend on what age you apply dunno,  I applied at 67 and got cover for 32,000 baht a year and I budget that amount in monthly with every other cost of living here.
 
As for your acquaintance if he is caught out they would cut him off from his UK pension. 

I read the govt rulings on this,they cannot stop your pension

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[eggers]

On 8/18/2018 at 10:22 PM, Sheryl said:

There are no exclusions due to age (though many insurers have a limit to the age at which you can get a new policy).

 

Exclusions are due to pre-existing conditions -- pre-existing prior to initially taking out the policy.

 

Plus there are some universal exclusions: cosmetic procedures, medical care due to suicide etc etc.

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

It's all slanted the insurers way, had a particular illness 20 years ago with no further indications; that or any connected illness was excluded!! How long is pre - existing in insurance terms???.... forever!! 

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, eggers said:

It's all slanted the insurers way, had a particular illness 20 years ago with no further indications; that or any connected illness was excluded!! How long is pre - existing in insurance terms???.... forever!! 

It depends on the condition, many have a time limit and ask if you've had treatment during the past X years. Of course, if the treatment was major they may never time box the event and it will always be pre-existing.

[john west]

On 8/18/2018 at 3:18 PM, kinyara said:

I don't think the British Embassy needs to warn any long term British expats about anything, we realised years ago we were on our own, typically patronising really.  Sad that they've become an overseas profit centre and don't recognise their citizens now living abroad contributed to the country for many years at home without being a burden on the state and perhaps deserve a little better service/representation than we seem to get in Thailand. I think we all know why the NHS back home is struggling and it's not due to a few thousand British passport holding returning expats. How can a country get the moral equation so back to front on so many economic/social issues. 

Exactly top post and yes indeed we are all victims of this vulgar and most discriminatory Frozen State Pension Policy unless of course, some are giving a false UK address and  yes we not a burden on the NHS or any other institution back in the so-called Mother Country

[john west]

On 8/18/2018 at 4:54 PM, Krataiboy said:

For the UK to treat citizens who retired to Thailand as "overseas visitors" and charge 150 percent of the cost medical treatment is a shoddy reward for a lifetime of contributing to the British economy.

 

In my own case, which I suspect is not untypical, I worked and paid my taxes for 45 years before retiring to Thailand to be with my Thai wife and child. Just before I left, I received an unexpected refund on my National Insurance contributions, which I had apparently overpaid!

 

Neither I, nor my family, have taken as much as a pence-worth of care from the NHS since I arrived here 20 years ago, a considerable saving for the old country.  In retirement I have continued to contribute to the UK economy via tax on my company and state pensions - the latter, of course, frozen at the amount paid when I was 65. Fifteen years on, you can imagine how much it is worth today!

 

We retirees have got used to tightening our belts as the fortunes of the East have risen and those of the West have declined.

 

Factors beyond anybody's control, such as the falling value of sterling, poor returns on bank and other low-risk investments, have hit particulary hard. Many of us in LOS, as the shocking statistics in the ThaiVisa article make clear, have no private medical insurance because we are too old to qualify or the premiums have become unaffordable.

 

If, as is being constantly suggested in the media, the Thai government were to insist on insurance cover as a condition for residency,  many of us would be in an invidious position. For a considerable number repatriation might be the only option - assuming they were able to meet stringent UK income criteria. I, for one, could not. My annual pension income would meet the financial criteria for re-settling myself, but not my wife and daughter.

 

What are those of us who may one day facd with this nightmarish Catch 22 situation supposed to do - hop on a passing refugee boat in the  hope of being treated at least as generously as hordes of other migrants flooding into Britain from non-EU countries?

 

Surely, a better - not to say fairer - solution would be to reinstate the rights to free NHS treatment for all British retirees living in countries which, like Thailand, lack reciprocal healthcare schemes. At the very least, the 150 percent charge should be waived in favour of fees based on the individual's past NI/tax contributions.

Excellent post and years ago this was muted, but as usual nothing has been done about it and no one cares about us when we retire here.

[john west]

On 8/19/2018 at 3:20 AM, johnj said:

I wrote to the then Minister of the DWP., with the following: Would be pleased to hear replies.

 

 

To Rt., Honourable David Gauke MP                                                            31/10/2017

 

Minister of Work & Pensions

 

 

 

Dear Sir, I would like to request that the Government look at the discriminatory way some pensioners are treated when wishing to retire to some countries, with regard to the state pension annual increase. I have studied the Government position with regard to this and find it incomprehensible that some pensioners wishing to retire in their twilight years to countries where they may have family, to be penalised because of where they wish to retire too. Government legislation states that if you live in a country which has a social security agreement with the UK., you get the annual state pension increase, but if you don’t live in one of these countries you do not get the annual increase. If a pensioner has paid into the NI., contributions all his/her working life, then you should either be given the annual increase if you move abroad, or you should not be given it regardless of where you choose to live. I have read a Briefing Paper Number CBP-01457, 13 April 2017., which states that the UK., will pay the annual increase to retirees that live in any country that has legislation requiring the UK., Government to increase pensions annually. I find it distasteful that the UK., Government it seems will not give the annual increase to pensioners, unless forced to by a foreign Governments requirements. The Philippines is a signatory to this social security agreement with the UK., I have read. I’d like to know how many Philippino retirees are resident in the UK., for the UK., Government to have a reciprical agreement with the Philippines Government. I suspect none, unless they are very wealthy, in which case, unlike most British retirees an annual increase would be of no benefit to any Philippino retirees. I’d also like to ask why if your in receipt of housing benefit, council tax benefit and in receipt of a means tested pension top up, which I am, the time you are allowed outside of the UK., without losing any of these benefits, has been reduced from thirteen weeks to four weeks. In my case I have extended family in Asia and because I cannot go to live with them because of the discrimination to pensioners like myself, with regard to the annual pension increase and the low state pension I receive, I only get the chance to visit them every few years, which is the time it takes me to save enough to make the trip. I’d also like to make the point that the amount of benefits outside of my basic state pension is altogether over 8,000 GBP annually, not including my bus pass and the use of the NHS. Taken that the annual pension increase is approximately, 200 GBP., I would of thought that in many pensioners cases that are the same as mine, it would be grossly more in the Governments favour to allow the annual pension increase regardless of which country you wish to retire too. I cannot see any justification in this descrimination toward pensioners, who as in my case have been low earners in their working lives and do not have access to private pension funds

 

  

Bet you did not get a reply and I have been an active person on this issue and only 70 years plus of fighting this frankly barbaric topic.

[simoh1490]

I can understand why pensioners in Thailand don't get annual cost of living increases, because there's no reciprocal social agreement between the two countries and because the cost of living in the two countries is very different....that's my personal view, I don't like the way it is but I understand it.

 

What I will never understand or accept however is that immigrants to the UK are allowed to buy insurance from the government costing 200 Pound per year (soon to be 400 Pounds) which gives them free access to all NHS services. But expats are not allowed to buy the same insurance and instead are charged at 150% of the cost of treatment received, that's not only insulting and derisory but it ranks the expat at bottom of the social order in the eyes of HM Gov.

[rickudon]

4 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Getting some kind of health Ins is better than nothing,  it may depend on what age you apply dunno,  I applied at 67 and got cover for 32,000 baht a year and I budget that amount in monthly with every other cost of living here.

That sounds like a reasonable premium at age 67. Could you please tell me which company?

 

One observation on the article. British Embassy said there were 10,000 Brits on retirement visas. Wonder where they got that figure from, because i think 10% of them live in my town! I would put it at more like 25,000.

[superal]

4 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Getting some kind of health Ins is better than nothing,  it may depend on what age you apply dunno,  I applied at 67 and got cover for 32,000 baht a year and I budget that amount in monthly with every other cost of living here.

 

As for your acquaintance if he is caught out they would cut him off from his UK pension. 

Do you have proof of this ?

[simoh1490]

2 minutes ago, rickudon said:

That sounds like a reasonable premium at age 67. Could you please tell me which company?

 

One observation on the article. British Embassy said there were 10,000 Brits on retirement visas. Wonder where they got that figure from, because i think 10% of them live in my town! I would put it at more like 25,000.

I think that number is very low and incorrect, I believe and have read several times that the total number is circa 50,000.

[rickudon]

8 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

I think that number is very low and incorrect, I believe and have read several times that the total number is circa 50,000.

Can quite believe that. I was just doing a quick conservative scale up from my local knowledge. I did think maybe 50,000 too, but didn't have enough evidence.

[simoh1490]

9 minutes ago, rickudon said:

Can quite believe that. I was just doing a quick conservative scale up from my local knowledge. I did think maybe 50,000 too, but didn't have enough evidence.

Wiki suggests 85,000 as of 2010, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Thailand#Expatriates

[superal]

38 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

I can understand why pensioners in Thailand don't get annual cost of living increases, because there's no reciprocal social agreement between the two countries and because the cost of living in the two countries is very different....that's my personal view, I don't like the way it is but I understand it.

 

What I will never understand or accept however is that immigrants to the UK are allowed to buy insurance from the government costing 200 Pound per year (soon to be 400 Pounds) which gives them free access to all NHS services. But expats are not allowed to buy the same insurance and instead are charged at 150% of the cost of treatment received, that's not only insulting and derisory but it ranks the expat at bottom of the social order in the eyes of HM Gov.

I do not agree with you on the annual pension increases as it makes no sense , reciprocal agreement or not . Why ? because it is your payment of N.I.C.s & taxes that have earned  your rights to the benefits of NHS treatment & pension  that should be paid out regardless of your country of residence . What effect on the budgetary systems does the place or country that one chooses to retire to have ?  Indeed there is an argument that because a person is a non resident of the UK they are less of a burden on the overstretched NHS  & cold weather payment. 

At the present time the UK number of OAPs is on a high from the era of the baby boom which happened after the end of world war 2 , so people born 1945 onwards .  I know that an appeal to end pension freezes was defeated a few years ago , however there may be some purpose to an online petition for a review of the current rules . Lastly I am disappointed that there appears to be no champions from MPs to fight the UK pensioners corner . 

Can anyone state if these pension rules apply in other European countries ? 

[rickudon]

1 hour ago, simoh1490 said:

Wiki suggests 85,000 as of 2010, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Thailand#Expatriates

Ah, that 85,000 is total UK national residents, i was concentrating on those on retirement (and possibly marriage extensions). I would assume many of the rest are working and have health insurance as part of their employment package.

[Kwasaki]

4 hours ago, ivor bigun said:

I read the govt rulings on this,they cannot stop your pension
 

Don't know where you get that from maybe laws have changed, when I came here and you claimed UK pension and live in Thailand it's frozen if you don't go back to UK within I think 180 days and you still claim you are in breach of the UK law as I understand it and they have right to stop paying your pension because you are a lying criminal.

 

[cyberfarang]

The NHS is classifying me as a visitor to the UK if I`m not resident there. WRONG!. I am a British national and once back on British soil, whether for short time or permanent,  I am entitled to full statutory rights, the same as any other British national for as long as I hold a British national insurance number, a British medical card, have a British birth certificate, my British family dating back generations, my ancestors have fought in all British wars dating back generations, not having immigrated to any other country, having full N.I. credits, don`t owe any debts or taxes and not broken any laws.

 

Will have to pay 150% of the National Health tariff costs. This means I`m being treated as a foreign visitor in my own country. 

 

In Thailand I will always be considered a visitor no matter how long I stay here and subject to foreigner duel pricing systems, which means I`ve been stripped of my statutory rights on all angles and now stuck in-between the middle of nowhere, just for for choosing to live outside the EEC and reap the benefits for all that I`ve worked for and paid into most of my life.

 

This is a sh*t deal by any accounts.

[mogandave]

The NHS is classifying me as a visitor to the UK if I`m not resident there. WRONG!. I am a British national and once back on British soil, whether for short time or permanent,  I am entitled to full statutory rights, the same as any other British national for as long as I hold a British national insurance number, a British medical card, have a British birth certificate, my British family dating back generations, my ancestors have fought in all British wars dating back generations, not having immigrated to any other country, having full N.I. credits, don`t owe any debts or taxes and not broken any laws.
 
Will have to pay 150% of the National Health tariff costs. This means I`m being treated as a foreign visitor in my own country. 
 
In Thailand I will always be considered a visitor no matter how long I stay here and subject to foreigner duel pricing systems, which means I`ve been stripped of my statutory rights on all angles and now stuck in-between the middle of nowhere, just for for choosing to live outside the EEC and reap the benefits for all that I`ve worked for and paid into most of my life.
 
This is a sh*t deal by any accounts.

You should tell the NHS

[Kwasaki]

2 minutes ago, mogandave said:

You should tell the NHS
 

 

Yes and he should complained to UK government, meanwhile I'll have another beer. 

[stanleycoin]

16 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

This is a sh*t deal by any accounts.

Yes. 

The UK loves us nearly as much as Thailand Loves us. .

It's nice to feel that love. 

[ivor bigun]

Don't know where you get that from maybe laws have changed, when I came here and you claimed UK pension and live in Thailand it's frozen if you don't go back to UK within I think 180 days and you still claim you are in breach of the UK law as I understand it and they have right to stop paying your pension because you are a lying criminal.
 

Why are you calling me a lying criminal,? All i did was qoute what i read a few days ago on the govt website that your old age pension is one thing they cant stop.if you know different please give us a link

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[Kwasaki]

4 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

Why are you calling me a lying criminal,? All i did was qoute what i read a few days ago on the govt website that your old age pension is one thing they cant stop.if you know different please give us a link

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Can you read english I am not calling that at all just people who do it, jeez.

[cyberfarang]

12 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Yes and he should complained to UK government, meanwhile I'll have another beer. 

I do believe there should be some kind of British expats organisation set up to challenge these policies. And before anyone shouts "SO WHY DON`T I START ONE!" This first requires gaining the support of people with clout and can ensure these grievances reach the right people and not fall on deaf ears. Sending letters of complaint as individuals will mostly be ignored and carry no weight whatsoever.

 

If such a supported organisation was established, I would be an active participant.

 

 

[ivor bigun]

Can you read english I am not calling that at all just people who do it, jeez.

Ok, so do you have the link that says they can stop your pension?

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[Kwasaki]

4 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

I do believe there should be some kind of British expats organisation set up to challenge these policies. And before anyone shouts "SO WHY DON`T I START ONE!" This first requires gaining the support of people with clout and can ensure these grievances reach the right people and not fall on deaf ears. Sending letters of complaint as individuals will mostly be ignored and carry no weight whatsoever.

 

If such a supported organisation was established, I would be an active participant.

 

 

There is one thread about unfreezing UK pensions if that's what you mean, waste of time.

[Kwasaki]

5 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

Ok, so do you have the link that says they can stop your pension?

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Look on gov.uk and see for yourself.

[cyberfarang]

Just now, Kwasaki said:

Look on gov.uk and see for yourself.

Out of curiosity, are you British? And if so, are you receiving a UK State pension?

 

 

[Kwasaki]

6 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

Out of curiosity, are you British? And if so, are you receiving a UK State pension?

 

 

YES and yes a frozen one for 6 years.

Frankly I don't know everything about law changes just lived the experience of living in Thailand where I live,

Edited August 20, 2018 by Kwasaki