CM Immigration Q&A (2018)

[CMNightRider]

Just now, Lizard2010 said:

I think they try out everything in Chiang Mai first 

Plus I think it will probably be the money in the bank

With no exceptions 

As immigration will not be able to verify anything from ovetsrss

IMHO

I think you are right about Chiang Mai being first.  On a positive note, for those who choose to deposit their money in a Thai bank, CM Immigration won't be crowed anymore.     

[CharlieH]

13 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

Probably because there are some CM immigration officers who are telling people this along with sending monthly 65,000 baht deposits to a Thai bank.  

Are there ANY first hand accounts of this ? As "he said she said" etc doesnt really count for much. (No offence)

 

Reports of people doing extensions with other than the deposit method (800k or 400k) in the following weeks/months will shed some light on the ""guidelines". 

Actual and factual experiences will be the only real way to enlighten and inform others as to what is actually working and acceptable.

[CharlieH]

A "topic derailing exchange" has been removed along with off topic posts.

 

[cusanus]

7 hours ago, CharlieH said:

Are there ANY first hand accounts of this ? As "he said she said" etc doesnt really count for much. (No offence)

 

Reports of people doing extensions with other than the deposit method (800k or 400k) in the following weeks/months will shed some light on the ""guidelines". 

Actual and factual experiences will be the only real way to enlighten and inform others as to what is actually working and acceptable.

I can only say how it worked for my ex wife and me when we arrived in early 2005. We didn't prove income by statements showing foreign income, but by a letter from the bank saying that over a 90 day period we had deposited 65,000 baht or more in Thailand originating from a foreign source, the assumption being is that this was sustainable. It may be different now. 

[Thailand]

12 hours ago, cusanus said:

Believe it was this forum, or at least another on Thaivisa.com. If it mattered to me I would pay a special visit to Immigration and make a personal inquiry. 

From CharlieH

" Actual and factual experiences will be the only real way to enlighten and inform others as to what is actually working and acceptable."

 

When you post that type of rumor at least link to something that is actual and factual. Enough he said she said on this forum at the moment.

[NancyL]

11 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

You have always maintained a positive attitude Nancy.  Complying with this ridicules requirement to deposit 800,000 baht (approximately $24,000) in a Thai bank for any extended time period you would be lucky to keep up with inflation.  The same amount of money deposited into a S&P Index Fund, with re-investing your dividends you can expect to double your money within six to eight years.

 

Another problem for many older American retirees, is for survivors to repatriate this money back to the US when you pass away.  I think the Thai government is counting on this.

 

One would have to look long and hard to find any financial planner or investor who would recommend banking in Thailand, especially if the end goal is just to obtain a one year retirement visa with all the nonsensical reporting that goes along with it, lol.

 

I read recently the Thai tourism industry has been wondering what happened to all the Chinese tourists.  If Thai Immigration adds these new financial hurdles for American retirees, I believe they will be wondering what happened to the American retirees as well.  Instead of reading all these travel articles about how wonderful retiring to Thailand is, travel writers will be changing their tune and directing people elsewhere.    

I know of numerous situations where survivors have been able to repatriate money back to the the U.S., even in the absence of a Final Will, although it's much easier if the deceased had the foresight to write a Final Will.  As for me, I plan to leave the 800,000 baht to local charities to make it easier for my executor.

 

Our U.S. financial planner has no problem with a portion of our retirement savings being tied up this way.  Maybe because in the big picture, it's really not much money and it gives us a ready source of cash here.

[CMNightRider]

On 11/2/2018 at 1:46 PM, Thailand said:

TM30?

 

What provision is there for those that cannot climb 3 flights of stairs?

I saw no provisions for the handicap.  My guess is you would have to crawl up the stairs on your belly, and hope you make it within the 24 hour limit or you will be fined.  Does anyone know why the TM30 is required?

[CMNightRider]

I recently reported to file my required TM30 at the new immigration facility.  I walked up to the third floor expecting to see a large office with not many foreigners, since I took it for granted immigration would be processing these people in a timely manner in their newly organised facility.  

 

I was surprised when I walked into a very small room packed with foreigners with some waiting near the front door for lack of seating.  It looked as crowded as the old airport facility was.  It took about 20 minutes for the two TM30 desk girls to enter my information and give me a receipt.  I can't imagine what it will be like when I have to return for my retirement visa.  

[Bill97]

I recently reported to file my required TM30 at the new immigration facility.  I walked up to the third floor expecting to see a large office with not many foreigners, since I took it for granted immigration would be processing these people in a timely manner in their newly organised facility.  
 
I was surprised when I walked into a very small room packed with foreigners with some waiting near the front door for lack of seating.  It looked as crowded as the old airport facility was.  It took about 20 minutes for the two TM30 desk girls to enter my information and give me a receipt.  I can't imagine what it will be like when I have to return for my retirement visa.  

20 minutes and you are complaining?


Sent from my iPod touch using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Mahseer]

39 minutes ago, Bill97 said:

20 minutes and you are complaining?


Sent from my iPod touch using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

It used to be literally 3-7 minutes at building 3 but yes 20 minutes really shouldn't ruin anybody's day.

[CMNightRider]

6 hours ago, Mahseer said:

It used to be literally 3-7 minutes at building 3 but yes 20 minutes really shouldn't ruin anybody's day.

There were only five people ahead of me for the TM30.  The main room on the third floor was packed with foreigners and more standing in front of the door to get in.  I was really surprised being a new facility the waiting room appeared to be no bigger than the old one and just as chaotic.  No the twenty minute wait to make sure this very important TM30 document was completed within the twenty-four hour allotted time frame did not ruin my day but thanks for your concern.

[CMNightRider]

6 hours ago, Bill97 said:

20 minutes and you are complaining?


Sent from my iPod touch using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

I was providing you feather merchants with information regarding the new Immigration facility.  Maybe you missed the part about the new waiting room being no larger than the old one.  I think Immigration did this anticipating the mass exodus of American retirees that are unable or unwilling to deposit 800,000 baht into a Thai bank, in order to qualify for a one year retirement visa.  

[Mahseer]

1 hour ago, CMNightRider said:

very important TM30 document was completed within the twenty-four hour allotted time frame

At previous facility if you had already registered you were allowed 7 days in which to update. Would be good to know if this still applies.

[cusanus]

10 hours ago, NancyL said:

I know of numerous situations where survivors have been able to repatriate money back to the the U.S., even in the absence of a Final Will, although it's much easier if the deceased had the foresight to write a Final Will.  As for me, I plan to leave the 800,000 baht to local charities to make it easier for my executor. Our U.S. financial planner has no problem with a portion of our retirement savings being tied up this way.  Maybe because in the big picture, it's really not much money and it gives us a ready source of cash here.

A couple of points. The 800,000 baht need only be on deposit for the 90 days (or was it 3 months) prior to renewing an extension, not quite the big deal some are making of it, or correct me if I'm wrong. You can also put a beneficiary on an account, otherwise it will likely not be split the way you want, I think 50% spouse and 50% equally among children. But I think Bangkok Bank (and probably the others) will require a will before allowing a beneficiary (been der done dat). Be sure the will is properly signed (two witnesses, one is NOT legal), and unless you own real property in Thailand you should outline the will using legal boilerplate available in your home country. You can do that while in Thailand and have it notarized by the embassy, then take it to the bank and get the proper forms signed by both account owner and beneficiary. Most SOP last will packets include a number of other forms such as medical power of attorney and general power of attorney, the latter is advisable in case you become incapable of managing your own affairs, and do not be a fool, because undesirable relatives are more than likely to pounce and wrest control away from you at that point. Seriously, take heed. 

[CMNightRider]

1 hour ago, Mahseer said:

At previous facility if you had already registered you were allowed 7 days in which to update. Would be good to know if this still applies.

I moved and was told by CM Immigration, I had to personally report my new address to them within 24 hours.  Upon my arrival to the new CM Immigration complex, I was told to report to the third floor.  There is no elevator just three flights of stairs.  Evidently, they are not concerned with anyone who might be handicapped.

[EricTh]

1 hour ago, CMNightRider said:

I moved and was told by CM Immigration, I had to personally report my new address to them within 24 hours.  Upon my arrival to the new CM Immigration complex, I was told to report to the third floor.  There is no elevator just three flights of stairs.  Evidently, they are not concerned with anyone who might be handicapped.

 

In the past I always report more than 24 hours but less than 7 days after I travel abroad and they have no issue with that.

 

I mean we are tired from flying a few hours and need to go home and have a good rest. Then we can go the next day which may be more than 24 hours.

 

Are they that strict nowadays?

 

 

 

[CMNightRider]

5 minutes ago, EricTh said:

 

In the past I always report more than 24 hours but less than 7 days after I travel abroad and they have no issue with that.

 

I mean we are tired from flying a few hours and need to go home and have a good rest. Then we can go the next day which may be more than 24 hours.

 

Are they that strict nowadays?

 

 

 

I reported personally within the required time frame so I don't know what they would have done if I was late.  Even though the 24 hour time frame seems unreasonable as do some of their other rules, I intend to abide by all their rules and regulations.  

[CMBob]

11 hours ago, EricTh said:

 

In the past I always report more than 24 hours but less than 7 days after I travel abroad and they have no issue with that.

 

I mean we are tired from flying a few hours and need to go home and have a good rest. Then we can go the next day which may be more than 24 hours.

 

Are they that strict nowadays?

 

 

 

No, they're not.  Many have updated (versus reporting a new address) several days after arrival back to their TM30 registered address without a problem.  I've mentioned before that 2 different CM Immigration officers have told me that updating within 4-5 days is fine (and, like you, I've done that several times without a problem or even comment about it).  

CMNightRider's situation doesn't involve updating but apparently involves reporting a new address (meaning filing an original TM30) and I don't know how strict they are about the time limit for that; however, I'm doubtful that they are going to nail (fine) anybody who reports within a few days of moving to a new address.  

[chingmai331]

Is it not true that the 800K thai baht needs only be in the thai bank for 90 days (approx) per year?  The rest of the year that cash can sit in the USA, or elsewhere, till needed again here.

I used my schwab debit card to get the cash, then put it into my bangkok bank account, no charges incurred but took numerous ATM transactions.

Not sure how i might move the money back to schwab though.  a problem for another day.

[Mahseer]

19 minutes ago, chingmai331 said:

Is it not true that the 800K thai baht needs only be in the thai bank for 90 days (approx) per year? 

Yup 3 calendar months. Day you receive your extension you are free to do what wish with the funds. 

[CharlieH]

Off topic removed.

 

This is not the place to discuss "Wills".

 

Thank you.

[cusanus]

15 hours ago, CharlieH said:

This is not the place to discuss "Wills".

Seems very little is resolved, and I probably should apologize to Nancy because she is indeed right, you must keep 800,000 baht on deposit during the three month period BEFORE going to Immigration to renew your visa. Before or after there is no rule. Otherwise, what hasn't changed either, is that you must show 65,000 baht/mo income or a combination of both. For example, if you only generate 700,000 baht income, you must have 100,000 baht on deposit for three months prior. Well, 65,000 x 12 is only 780,000 isn't it, so there may be a little give and take there. But what is getting people really upset is that the consultes no longer do income letters for submission to Immigration, and some are saying that Immigration won't accept foreign statements of income. YOU tell us your experience, because it seems to me that the annual Social Security statement and/or 1099R is a pretty good proof, and most pensions can give you a statement and of course all produce a 1099R, at least in the states. I sure don't have the answers for what will or will not satisfy Immigration. And then there are those who produce income by other means which may be rejected. For those affected by these issues we need people who will provide their own experiences in the coming months. I guess that could be too late for some. BUT, a much better option is to take whatever proof or evidence prior to that time to Immigration and wait for someone and ASK the horse. Right? Then report back to the rest of us. I also think that a letter from the bank proving 65,000 x 3 baht for three months prior will satisfy Immigration; at least this is what I vaguely remember doing myself 14 years ago, but then I also brought about $25,000 baht over in cash. So, don't believe anyone on the forum, just GO ASK THE HORSE, right? 

[Lizard2010]

I believe most of us here do not know what will happen within the next 7 months 

I don't think we need be reminded on this. 

Plus all the extra posts sbout other things. 

So many posts to read daily 

I hope next year we will get posative feedback 

As no one knows for sure what Chiang Mai  Immigration  will ask for.

When applying for a Visa Extension 

IMHO

[stephenterry]

21 hours ago, Lizard2010 said:

I believe most of us here do not know what will happen within the next 7 months 

I don't think we need be reminded on this. 

Plus all the extra posts sbout other things. 

So many posts to read daily 

I hope next year we will get posative feedback 

As no one knows for sure what Chiang Mai  Immigration  will ask for.

When applying for a Visa Extension 

IMHO

...and that's why when my retirement extension is due in February I will hand all my income documentation* to my local Thai visa company, and let them sort it out with TI.

* UK Embassy income letter

* UK tax return from UK accounting firm showing pension income

* Letter from Thai bank (on date of application) certifying receipt of last 3 months income, and separate 100k deposit to cover any perceived shortfall.

 

And if that's not good enough, then it never will be.

 

P.S. Unable to season 800k owing to lack of readily available assets. 

Edited November 25, 2018 by stephenterry
addition to text.

[Mapguy]

* Letter from Thai bank (on date of application) certifying receipt of last 3 months income, and separate 100k deposit to cover any perceived shortfall. (by Stephenterry)

 

Caution advised! Here is a suggested method where asking the the IO horse in advance is important to many expats seeking extensions.

 

This is, I believe the second time, a plan showing proof of no more than three months' transferred income of Bt65k, has been posted. The 100k extra deposit Stephenterry noted is just icing on the cake.  Other data about resources in the home country is understood.  The question is does this meet the transfer requirement?  Maybe, maybe not. A specific IO answer to this question should be sought. Should it not be sufficient, some extension petitioners will be stuck when it comes to seeking an extension. 

 

The "three month"  Bt800k deposit rule (as opposed to, say, a standing amount in an acceptable Thai account consistently above the requirement for a year) has always been somewhat of a puzzle.  People have taken advantage of it in ways that dodge a major reason for the rule, a readily-available reserve to pay for critical expenses, such as emergencies, particularly medical care.

 

In the past some expats with inadequate financial resources have dodged this short-term requirement.  Some would take out short-term loans to cover the requirement, get the extension, then remove the funds and pay off the loan.  Rinse and repeat annually.  Some would team up with friends and trade the same amount around from account to account at different times during the year. Clever, but not unknown dodges to banks or to immigration.  The IO could well determine that these gambits are no longer acceptable.

 

Specific IO-sourced information and/or personal experience is needed.

[Thailand]

3 hours ago, Mapguy said:

* Letter from Thai bank (on date of application) certifying receipt of last 3 months income, and separate 100k deposit to cover any perceived shortfall. (by Stephenterry)

 

Caution advised! Here is a suggested method where asking the the IO horse in advance is important to many expats seeking extensions.

 

This is, I believe the second time, a plan showing proof of no more than three months' transferred income of Bt65k, has been posted. The 100k extra deposit Stephenterry noted is just icing on the cake.  Other data about resources in the home country is understood.  The question is does this meet the transfer requirement?  Maybe, maybe not. A specific IO answer to this question should be sought. Should it not be sufficient, some extension petitioners will be stuck when it comes to seeking an extension. 

 

The "three month"  Bt800k deposit rule (as opposed to, say, a standing amount in an acceptable Thai account consistently above the requirement for a year) has always been somewhat of a puzzle.  People have taken advantage of it in ways that dodge a major reason for the rule, a readily-available reserve to pay for critical expenses, such as emergencies, particularly medical care.

 

In the past some expats with inadequate financial resources have dodged this short-term requirement.  Some would take out short-term loans to cover the requirement, get the extension, then remove the funds and pay off the loan.  Rinse and repeat annually.  Some would team up with friends and trade the same amount around from account to account at different times during the year. Clever, but not unknown dodges to banks or to immigration.  The IO could well determine that these gambits are no longer acceptable.

 

Specific IO-sourced information and/or personal experience is needed.

And the simple fact remains NOBODY knows if immigration will alter their requirements in the future and until then pure speculation.

[cusanus]

2 hours ago, Thailand said:

And the simple fact remains NOBODY knows if immigration will alter their requirements in the future and until then pure speculation.

Until then, the 800,000 baht / 3 month rule stands.  Is borrowing the required amount really a gambit? Lenders usually require collateral. Also, if you can get better interest elsewhere, why should you be required to let it sit for 12 months in a Thai commercial bank? And just how does the IO determine whether or not the 800,000 baht deposit is a gambit or simply a more efficient use of the money?  

[chingmai331]

@cusanus: i think most of us agreed that once the retirement extension, based on 800K cash in the thai bank, is granted then you are free to do as you please with that cash.  No one here claims it must remain in the bank beyond the Immig stamping date, except maybe you.

And i do not think the IO (Immig Officer) has any care at all about that money, except it's in the bank and proven so for the previous 90 days. 

[stephenterry]

Update to my retirement income post yesterday. First paragraph for INCOME applicants only, NOT those with 800k in a bank account.

 

I was advised by my CM Visa company (after examining my uk tax return showing my pension income) to stick with the BE income letter (valid for 6 months) and supporting documents to obtain a retirement extension, and not to open up any can of worms regarding monies being transferred to a Thai bank account. Of course, anything could happen to derail this advice, albeit unlikely before the Thai election. However, I'm going to take advantage of the 'up to 45 days' application before expiry, to get an extension before any changes are made. 

 

***

 

Also, for those living with their partners in rented or bought properties, even if a non-Thai possesses a yellow house book, it is mandatory to file a TM30 with Immigration to register the address before applying for renewal of extension. Or you could be charged with overstay (even though it's the responsibility of the home owner). This 'new' dictate has been operational since earlier in 2018 - it wasn't a requirement in Feb when I renewed my extension, but it sure is now. 

 

 

[NancyL]

3 hours ago, stephenterry said:

 

 

....snip....

 

***

 

Also, for those living with their partners in rented or bought properties, even if a non-Thai possesses a yellow house book, it is mandatory to file a TM30 with Immigration to register the address before applying for renewal of extension. Or you could be charged with overstay (even though it's the responsibility of the home owner). This 'new' dictate has been operational since earlier in 2018 - it wasn't a requirement in Feb when I renewed my extension, but it sure is now. 

 

 

I don't think you'll be charged with "overstay" for failure to have a TM30 on file before filing an application for a retirement extension, but rather you'll be fined even though it's the responsibility of the home owner to file the TM30.  1600 baht seems to be the standard fine in Chiang Mai, although they impose a larger fine.