CM Immigration Q&A (2018)

[OneZero]

19 hours ago, JimGant said:

 

 

7 minutes ago, Mapguy said:

Per Gant’s comments I can confirm no difficulties re obtaining an extension of stay with a cosignatory on savings and fixed accounts. As stated before, a cosignatory, spouse or significant other or whatever is not an owner of an account.

JimGant, Mapguy: Questions ref the co-signer single owner savings account:

1.  What bank did you use, & do you think it matters?

2.  Did you feel you had to double the 800K just to be "safe" at Immigration?

3.1 Do the two people both have to sign in order to withdraw the money; ie can co-signer alone withdraw?

3.2  Quote: "....just have her clean out the account before you're cold."  If the answer to 3.1 is "Yes": How would the bank know I am alive or not?

3.3  If the answer to 3.1 is "No":  What options does the co-signator have, (ie, Will & probate only)?

[Mapguy]

16 minutes ago, OneZero said:

 

JimGant, Mapguy: Questions ref the co-signer single owner savings account:

1.  What bank did you use, & do you think it matters?

2.  Did you feel you had to double the 800K just to be "safe" at Immigration?

3.1 Do the two people both have to sign in order to withdraw the money; ie can co-signer alone withdraw?

3.2  Quote: "....just have her clean out the account before you're cold."  If the answer to 3.1 is "Yes": How would the bank know I am alive or not?

3.3  If the answer to 3.1 is "No":  What options does the co-signator have, (ie, Will & probate only)?

To the best of my knowledge and personal experience, answers:

 

1. Bangkok Bank. Ask the banks.

 

2. No. Never have done.

 

3.1. No

 

3.2. Banks may not take kindly to milking the accounts of deceased owners. This potentially poses problems with probate and distribution of assets as well as any future business with the bank.

 

3.3 A cosignatory may of course be a beneficiary. (See 3.2 above)

Edited August 13, 2019 by Mapguy

[NotEinstein]

A friend of mine passed earlier in the year. He thought he had covered his bases by opening a 'joint account' of some description, but when his wife informed the bank of his passing, she was told she cannot have access, so she should empty it via the atm, which took 2 weeks.....

[OneZero]

JimGant, Mapguy: Questions ref the co-signer single owner savings account:

1.  What bank did you use, & do you think it matters?

2.  Did you feel you had to double the 800K just to be "safe" at Immigration?

3.1 Do the two people both have to sign in order to withdraw the money; ie can co-signer alone withdraw?

3.2  Quote: "....just have her clean out the account before you're cold."  If the answer to 3.1 is "Yes": How would the bank know I am alive or not?

3.3  If the answer to 3.1 is "No":  What options does the co-signator have, (ie, Will & probate only)?

To the best of my knowledge and personal experience, answers:

1. Bangkok Bank. Ask the banks.

2. No. Never have done.

3.1. No

3.2. Banks may not take kindly to milking the accounts of deceased owners. This potentially poses problems with probate and distribution of assets as well as any future business with the bank.

3.3 A cosignatory may of course be a beneficiary. (See 3.2 above)

 

Thanks Mapguy, now I see I wasn't clear enough in question 3.1.  In 3.1 I in fact asked two questions there & now I'm not sure which your answer of "No" applies to.  I assume:

a). I assume you meant that "Both" people do NOT have to sign in order to withdraw money. 

b). I further assume that the co-signer can indeed withdraw money by themselves.

 

Please advise if you agree or disagree with my assumptions a) and b)  above.  Thanks.

[OneZero]

Ref the few posts above.  If both owner & co-signer can withdraw from a co-signer account, what is the difference between it & a joint account, at least with respect to Immigration's bias against approving extensions with a joint account? 

 

Playing devils advocate so as to not be surprised by an extension refusal when it's too late to do anything about it: 

I understand that the co-signer's name is not shown in the bankbook, but surely Immigration must be aware of the existence of this type account (co-signer).  Would not Immigration want to know if there is a co-signer and want that information revealed in the lketter from the bank?

 

It would be just my luck that perhaps the required letter from the bank would reveal to Immigration that the account has a co-signer who can withdraw money; and Immigration therefor disapproves the extension.

 

 

[Mapguy]

1 hour ago, OneZero said:

assumptions

Agree.

 

I suggest that anyone else wanting clarification consult their bank and immigration. 

[JimGant]

3 hours ago, NotEinstein said:

A friend of mine passed earlier in the year. He thought he had covered his bases by opening a 'joint account' of some description, but when his wife informed the bank of his passing, she was told she cannot have access, so she should empty it via the atm, which took 2 weeks.....

Was that a true joint (two-owner) account, or one of the variety we're discussing here (co-signatory)? Several cases reported here on TV of a joint owner denied access to the joint account when the other joint owner dies. This is against what Thai law allows -- but bank managers, like Immigration managers, somehow march to their own drums. Apparently there's no Thai word for "standardization."

Another reason to have your accounts available online, with max daily limits for transfers applied. Cleaning out via ATM is not very efficient.

If the bank manager ever said, "return the money" with a joint account, you have Thai law on your side. With a co-signatory account, you're on shakier ground, although if you're the named beneficiary in the account owner's Will, I really don't think anyone would push the issue -- except maybe a hungry probate lawyer......

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, OneZero said:

Ref the few posts above.  If both owner & co-signer can withdraw from a co-signer account, what is the difference between it & a joint account, at least with respect to Immigration's bias against approving extensions with a joint account? 

Immigration doesn't care that you have a co-signer. It's still a single owner account; that your wife/whoever has power of attorney type authority doesn't negate the fact that it's your money, in total, in the account. A joint account, by definition, says that only half the money is yours. Immigration is aware of the distinction.

 

[JimGant]

3 hours ago, OneZero said:

Banks may not take kindly to milking the accounts of deceased owners. This potentially poses problems with probate and distribution of assets as well as any future business with the bank.

Well, don't milk it. Make sure the account and the receiving account are available online. Believe 500k per transaction is allowed, so do a couple of large transfers.

 

5 hours ago, Mapguy said:

no difficulties re obtaining an extension of stay with a cosignatory on savings and fixed accounts.

Mapguy, you're for sure you can do a co-signatory with a fixed account? I just assumed you couldn't, but I've never really pursued the answer. Thanx.

[Mapguy]

Jim Gant, yes, I have direct successful experience.  No problem for fixed account at Immigration.

 

To others, it is evident that some do not understand the difference between co-signatory accounts and account ownership. A co-signer is not the owner of an account.

 

Owned accounts are subject to probate when the owner dies as all property in Thailand owned by the deceased.  A co-signatory can be a beneficiary and/or an executor for a will which must be probated before money in the deceased's name can be provided to the beneficiary.

 

See a lawyer about such matters. Some general information can be found on line normally posted by some law firms.  A primer is also handy:  Thai Law for Foreigners by Becker and Thongkaew, Paiboon Publishing, 2008.  Some stuff is out of date now, but it is still useful in many ways and it'll help people ask a lawyer the right questions. Now, back to Immigration!!

 

 

Edited August 13, 2019 by Mapguy
Added information

[Scott]

The thread is about immigration, not banking or anything else.   Stay on topic.

[Olmate]

16 minutes ago, Scott said:

The thread is about immigration, not banking or anything else.   Stay on topic.

Not even banking needed for immigration boss?

[Scott]

8 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Not even banking needed for immigration boss?

You may post anything DIRECTLY relevant to immigration.

[HullyGully]

Today 15/08/19 my wife and I went to CNX IMM for

Extension of Stay and Re-entry permit

 

Arrived at 0830hrs, received the Extension of Stay within 45 minutes

The IM also print out a copy of the visa for the re-entry permit

 

All finished by 1000hrs

 

Service was excellent, no issues

Our application was 45 days before expiry of the Extension of Stay

We have a fixed deposit, which I updated on the 14/08/19

[Mahseer]

I was also there today for same arriving at 1030 and away by 1140. Would have been 10 minutes quicker but the only bloke ahead of me was missing some papers but no big deal.

 

Make sure you have your bank book with you as this was asked for.

[EricTh]

On 8/15/2019 at 2:52 PM, HullyGully said:

Today 15/08/19 my wife and I went to CNX IMM for

Extension of Stay and Re-entry permit

 

Arrived at 0830hrs, received the Extension of Stay within 45 minutes

The IM also print out a copy of the visa for the re-entry permit

 

How many days did you keep your 800k minimum before the extension date?

 

[HullyGully]

I cannot remember, we fixed the 800k for 2 years at 2.5%.

 

I think it was approx 6 months before the extension of stay was due to expire

 

 

[CHiangMaiMuu]

I am currently in Chiang Mai, just on a 30-day exempt., extended once here already. 

I have lived in C.M. for years, previously, on Tourist visas. But the last time I came in, from Vietnam, I just went with the 30-day exempt.

If I do not make the committment to a one-year ED visa - because I may go back to N. America and live with relatives - then I will need to stay on in C.M. a little longer.

So, I would like to ask if anyone has gone to Tachileck or to Huay Xai on a Border Run - by Motor Cycle?

I get it that a Border Run is for a walk over and back to stamped back in to Thailand with a 30-day exempt., as opposed to going to the Embassy in Vientiane or Yangon to apply for a T.V., which is a Visa Run.

But I don't like the idea of a 5-hour bus ride each way with no toilet. 

If anyone has gone this route by m.c. how has it worked out Re: a place to stay and safe place to leave the bike.

I have managed to rent a Honda with insurance and operate on my International DL and stayed here for two 30-day exemptions plus extensions without any problems. 

Any advice is appreciated.

 

[chingmai331]

I can help.  The Green bus from CM to CR stops along the way for food and toilet. Go early in morning, but don't drink too much coffee. You can be home by 6pm with or without visa stamp.

I stayed in Takilek o'nite and cannot recommend any hotel or restaurant.  All were poor selection and quality, dirty and way overpriced.

[Konini]

8 hours ago, CHiangMaiMuu said:

I am currently in Chiang Mai, just on a 30-day exempt., extended once here already. 

I have lived in C.M. for years, previously, on Tourist visas. But the last time I came in, from Vietnam, I just went with the 30-day exempt.

This is, to the best of my knowledge, a no can do.  Unless things have changed in the last few months, you can't re-enter Thailand at Mae Sai (Tachileck on the Burmese side) unless you have a visa.

 

Thai immigration won't let you depart because they know you can't go any further into Burma and they know that they won't let you back in if you leave.  My Non-O was issued overseas so I have to do border hops every 90 days. Earlier this year we had to cancel a trip out of the country so we hired a car and had a few days away (very do-able on a big bike, but I wouldn't like to do it on a scooter).  Two unrelated people of different nationalities in the short queue in front of me were denied exit.  Both were told to either go to another country and get a 'proper' visa, or leave at another border point and fly back into the Thailand.

 

I'm not saying it hasn't changed in the last few months, but I haven't seen anything to that effect and it would be pretty big news.  Whatever you do, unless someone can confirm from 1st hand experience that it definitely has changed, don't leave it until the last day of your visa as one of the ones in front of me had - no amount of eyelash fluttering so serious she almost turned me lesbian, followed by a lot of real tears would convince the officer otherwise.

 

I don't know about crossing into Laos, I have a very strong feeling it will be the same deal, I haven't heard of anyone doing it.  You would have to pay for a visa to get in (if they issue them on arrival at smaller land crossings), then go to Vientiane to get a (rather expensive) flight back into Thailand, you won't get a visa from there as there's a 4-6 week wait for an appointment at the embassy.  Sassaket isn't that much further to travel and has no queue but I don't know if they issue tourist visas.

 

If you're pretty much out of time, I'd say your best bet would be a cheap return flight to Saigon or KL, last minute though so I don't know if cheap will be cheap at all.

[Sparkles]

I haven't really get abreast of this TM 30 nonsense but I have a situation late this Saturday PM when my daughter and 6 yr old Grandson arrive from Australia for a 10 day stay at our home which is in my Thai wife's name.

I have explained to her that being the house owner she is the one that has to submit a TM 30 House Master form or is it another form ?

As I am on a retirement visa what ramifications are there if she ignored doing it as she has never had any connection to Immigration apart from sometimes being with me when I renew.

Saturday the office will be closed once our family arrive and it will need another trip into the city on Sunday which we don't really need

 

 

[Mahseer]

1 hour ago, Sparkles said:

I haven't really get abreast of this TM 30 nonsense but I have a situation late this Saturday PM when my daughter and 6 yr old Grandson arrive from Australia for a 10 day stay at our home which is in my Thai wife's name.

I have explained to her that being the house owner she is the one that has to submit a TM 30 House Master form or is it another form ?

As I am on a retirement visa what ramifications are there if she ignored doing it as she has never had any connection to Immigration apart from sometimes being with me when I renew.

Saturday the office will be closed once our family arrive and it will need another trip into the city on Sunday which we don't really need

 

 

By the letter of the law if your wife (home owner) has non Thais staying she should report this to immigration. Don't believe you have anything to do with it but the fine is around 1,600baht so why not ride your luck as chances of anyone reporting strangers in the neighbourhood are slim. I certainly would.

[cusanus]

27 minutes ago, Mahseer said:

By the letter of the law if your wife (home owner) has non Thais staying she should report this to immigration. Don't believe you have anything to do with it but the fine is around 1,600baht so why not ride your luck as chances of anyone reporting strangers in the neighbourhood are slim. I certainly would.

By the "letter" of the law, yes, but it's the foreigner who pays the fine. If they're only going to be here for 10 days, I can't see where there would be a problem. It's when you go for a visa extension that you may have a problem. My son arrived uninvited to his mom's house in Hang Dong a year ago and camped out for six weeks attempting to bully her into forking over all her money. My daughter in law owns the house but could not have possibly done a TM30 or been responsible because he was not supposed to be there. Also, despite numerous efforts to point this unpleasant situation out to Immigration police in hopes of having him removed, nothing was ever done and no one was fined. I hope this is directly related to Immigration. The point is you need the TM 30 stub in your passport IF you have to do an extension or something like that. Nobody is going to come looking for anybody unless perhaps there's a dead body involved.  

 

[CMBob]

4 hours ago, Sparkles said:

I haven't really get abreast of this TM 30 nonsense but I have a situation late this Saturday PM when my daughter and 6 yr old Grandson arrive from Australia for a 10 day stay at our home which is in my Thai wife's name.

I have explained to her that being the house owner she is the one that has to submit a TM 30 House Master form or is it another form ?

As I am on a retirement visa what ramifications are there if she ignored doing it as she has never had any connection to Immigration apart from sometimes being with me when I renew.

Saturday the office will be closed once our family arrive and it will need another trip into the city on Sunday which we don't really need

 

 

Presuming your wife (and/or you) have properly filed a TM30 for yourself, then you're fine (you'll need to have done that and to have properly updated it at least on any returns you've made from out of the country......any requirement at CM Immigration for updating for trips within Thailand is doubtful but still presently up in the air).

Technically, yes, your wife should file a TM30 for your daughter and grandson; however, so long as your daughter and grandson do not need any extension from Immigration (i.e., they'll be at your home less than 30 days on an exemption or less than 60 days on a Tourist Visa), then don't bother as there will be no enforcement at all (unless somehow out of the blue CM Immigration catches wind of them staying there or makes a snap physical inspection).  And nobody at any airport exit immigration booth will even ask your daughter or grandson about it. 

[ProbPossConf]

What address did they put on the TM6 on arrival?

[EricTh]

2 hours ago, ProbPossConf said:

What address did they put on the TM6 on arrival?

This address is there if the police need to contact you for immigration violation etc. 

[Sparkles]

12 hours ago, ProbPossConf said:

What address did they put on the TM6 on arrival?

Well as I posted they don't arrive until Saturday.I will advise them in due course.

Of course if Imm were living in this century they would enter the address in their computers on peoples arrival and that would negate all this nonsense and paperwork

[Sparkles]

15 hours ago, cusanus said:

By the "letter" of the law, yes, but it's the foreigner who pays the fine. If they're only going to be here for 10 days, I can't see where there would be a problem. It's when you go for a visa extension that you may have a problem. My son arrived uninvited to his mom's house in Hang Dong a year ago and camped out for six weeks attempting to bully her into forking over all her money. My daughter in law owns the house but could not have possibly done a TM30 or been responsible because he was not supposed to be there. Also, despite numerous efforts to point this unpleasant situation out to Immigration police in hopes of having him removed, nothing was ever done and no one was fined. I hope this is directly related to Immigration. The point is you need the TM 30 stub in your passport IF you have to do an extension or something like that. Nobody is going to come looking for anybody unless perhaps there's a dead body involved.  

 

Thanks for the reply but the foreigner, me, is not involved its the housemasters (wife's) responsibility isn't it ? and they cop the fine. The stub surely doesn't go in my passport the only one there is mine last time I went out of the country which is checked when I do 90 day reports and extension

[Sparkles]

13 hours ago, CMBob said:

Presuming your wife (and/or you) have properly filed a TM30 for yourself, then you're fine (you'll need to have done that and to have properly updated it at least on any returns you've made from out of the country......any requirement at CM Immigration for updating for trips within Thailand is doubtful but still presently up in the air).

Technically, yes, your wife should file a TM30 for your daughter and grandson; however, so long as your daughter and grandson do not need any extension from Immigration (i.e., they'll be at your home less than 30 days on an exemption or less than 60 days on a Tourist Visa), then don't bother as there will be no enforcement at all (unless somehow out of the blue CM Immigration catches wind of them staying there or makes a snap physical inspection).  And nobody at any airport exit immigration booth will even ask your daughter or grandson about it. 

They certainly wont be extending that was another reason why I asked the original question.I guess there must be 100's of foreigners in CM  who get visits from immediate family.  Immigration, Bangkok created this monster without looking at the consequences and its not going to change. Has zero effect on criminal activity.My wife is totally confused about the issue and I guess all law abiding Thais are too.I can understand hotels/resorts having it added to their duties but private homes give us a break

[chingmai331]

'give us a break'

How naive to think that the Thai generals care one whit about the farang.

Suggest you start reading the Bangkok Post (no firewall) to educate yourself about the concern the govt leaders persistently display for ANYONE but themselves.