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Ex-Trump aide Manafort tentatively agrees to plea deal: ABC News

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By webfact
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riclag Platinum Member

riclag

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

I didn't read the Hill article, I just gave some facts around the case.  If it is found to be true that Manafort was using the campaign to offset his personal debt to a Kremlin linked oligarch, you do realise what would be collusion, don't you? 

I know that it's a before  the campaign incident. Lastly , the purpose of Manafort's hiring makes me feel comfortable that his ties with who ever had nothing to do with why he was hired ,using his experience in coordinating GOP delegates 

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riclag Platinum Member

riclag

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

LOL, if there was no tie he would not have been allowed his plea bargain, and as I just told you, Manaforts crimes are tied right to the campaign, nothing stopped in 2014, he was emailing a Kremlin linked oligarch asking him if he had seen the press releases of the Trump campaign and apparently asking if that cleared his debt, which by the way would be a little illegal, I believe they call it treason.

Sorry ,You have know idea what he plea bargained about! 

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Jingthing Legendary Member

Jingthing

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Oh, so you imagine his plea bargain was not related to the current investigation into collusion?  You really are clutching at straws now.

We don't know what Mueller knows. He's a most excellent non-leaker. However, it's fair to assume he wouldn't have given any plea deal to Manafort unless his cooperation provides very valuable info related to higher ups than Manafort. "trump" and his family most likely but not definite because again because of no leaks. It wouldn't necessarily need to be about collusion or only collusion. It could also be about other crimes such as obstruction of justice, money laundering, being compromised by Putin, etc. To be fair to those "trump" fans that hope (or actually believe) that none of this will touch on "trump" himself, well, that is still possible. The cooperation info might be valuable to the government even if it doesn't as it obviously involves a lot about Russian oligarch corruption and influence and that's a more GENERAL concern than only "trump."

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riclag Platinum Member

riclag

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Oh, so you imagine his plea bargain was not related to the current investigation into collusion?  You really are clutching at straws now.

Well do you! For all anybody knows he could be implicating the Podesta's or more Russian's

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Kieran00001 Explorer Member

Kieran00001

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

We don't know what Mueller knows. He's a most excellent non-leaker. However, it's fair to assume he wouldn't have given any plea deal to Manafort unless his cooperation provides very valuable info related to higher ups than Manafort. "trump" and his family most likely but not definite because again because of no leaks. It wouldn't necessarily need to be about collusion or only collusion. It could also be about other crimes such as obstruction of justice, money laundering, being compromised by Putin, etc. To be fair to those "trump" fans that hope (or actually believe) that none of this will touch on "trump" himself, well, that is still possible. The cooperation info might be valuable to the government even if it doesn't as it obviously involves a lot about Russian oligarch corruption and influence and that's a more GENERAL concern than only "trump."

 

1 hour ago, riclag said:

Well do you! For all anybody knows he could be implicating the Podesta's or more Russian's

 

The point is whether there was collusion during the election, not just whether Trump colluded, and as Manafort was in contact with the Russians during the campaign and talking to them about the campaign press releases I feel safe assuming that Manafort has helped Trumps campaign collude with Russia whether Trump knew about it or not.

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mikebike Platinum Member

mikebike

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, riclag said:

Your missing the whole point of the Hill article! His crimes where from 2013 !"thousands of other U.S. foreign agents paid to influence our politicians and public opinion in a way that’s perfectly legal".

Nice try,

I think you may have missed something... The oldest of the allegations date back to activities that began in 2006, but three occurred in 2016 and 2017...

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watcharacters Gold Member

watcharacters

Posted
Posted
On 9/14/2018 at 6:31 AM, dcutman said:

A year and half or two to into this Witch hunt still nothing. When are we gonna see something to lead to indictments about Russia collusion?

Surely by the end of Trumps second term there should be something nailed down, right?

 

It is not a witch hunt.

 

Are you posting this as an American or just an interested outsider?

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Opl Gold Member

Opl

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Jim1000 said:

Errr could you make a quick summary of that for me Opl ?

No, I won't because  "Reading the 76 pages of charges against Manafort is like reading an international sequel to “The Godfather.” Money laundering, illegal lobbying, tax evasion, perjury, conspiracy to get others to commit perjury, movement of tens of millions of dollars through offshore bank accounts in Cyprus and St. Vincent and the Grenadines. Involved with Manafort were his partner and deputy, Rick Gates, and one Konstantin Kilimnik, a former Russian intelligence agent also charged in the conspiracy and currently on the lam in Moscow under the protection of none other than the Russian president, Vladimir Putin." 

https://www.axios.com/paul-manafort-charges-conspiracy-russia-ukraine-trump-33431df0-fce5-4197-adb4-8d2e9a152957.html

 

but for you another link :

https://www.salon.com/2018/09/15/hurricane-manafort-makes-landfall-in-washington-d-c/

 

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Srikcir Platinum Member

Srikcir

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, riclag said:

And Churchill and Roosevelt shook hands and shared cigars with Starlin! 

Not sure how that relates to my response to your posting regarding registration of US foreign agents.

But I'm sure in the context of my original response to you that neither Churchill nor Roosevelt had any UK/US citizens on their staffs or chain of command that were knowingly foreign agents for Stalin! 

Unlike Trump, Roosevelt kept US secrets from Stalin and didn't trust Stalin's political agenda.

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sirineou Star Member

sirineou

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, riclag said:

If he’d done so, he’d arguably be much like thousands of other U.S. foreign agents paid to influence our politicians and public opinion in a way that’s perfectly legal.

If my grandma had a penis they would had called her grandpa. 

 

Trump promised to as that he would hire the best people. apparently NOT judging by the resignesions, indictments, and convictions.

But they are not the target, though as Muller seems to be carrying out  Trump's promise to "drain the swamp", the target is Trump the major swap dweller.

.Before you get to trump you need to go through the defenders as Mueller seems to be doing with great expediency.  Perhaps when he gets to Trump we will find him innocent. that's a possibility but all indications point out not a probability.

 

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riclag Platinum Member

riclag

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, sirineou said:

If my grandma had a penis they would had called her grandpa. 

 

Trump promised to as that he would hire the best people. apparently NOT judging by the resignesions, indictments, and convictions.

But they are not the target, though as Muller seems to be carrying out  Trump's promise to "drain the swamp", the target is Trump the major swap dweller.

.Before you get to trump you need to go through the defenders as Mueller seems to be doing with great expediency.  Perhaps when he gets to Trump we will find him innocent. that's a possibility but all indications point out not a probability.

 

There will be no finality to this in our lifetime! To think so would be naive.One thing for certain is the left has reared it's deranged and demonic head,the likes no one could of  imagined ! In the future any association with Russia ,being investments in salad dressing companies  to tennis stars will be scrutinized with malicious intent 

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sirineou Star Member

sirineou

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, riclag said:

There will be no finality to this in our lifetime! To think so would be naive.One thing for certain is the left has reared it's deranged and demonic head,the likes no one could of  imagined ! In the future any association with Russia ,being investments in salad dressing companies  to tennis stars will be scrutinized with malicious intent 

Yes indeed ,it is diabolical how "the deranged demonic " left,  has managed to make it look like all the Trump associates committed all these crimes.  And their ventriloquist skills that make all these crud come out of Trump's mouth is incredible.

                Diabolical I tell you , simply diabolical!!!

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wayned Ruby Member

wayned

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, usacb500biker said:

They have nothing on Trump, Trump Rules, Trump is king,Trumps the Greatest !!!!!

IMHO, as far as Trump is concerned, Trump doesn't understand how to do anything that he thinks will not make him look good.  .He's a sadistic psychopath and he is unable to do/say anything that he thinks will make him look inferior.  I really don't think that he could have debriefed his closest advisors after his meetings with either Kim or Putin as by the time the meetings were over he had already mentally configured his understanding of the things discussed that would make him look good without any representation of reality.  There's an interesting article about a  basic  Psychopathy and Sadism test that is used in the "shrink" world.  Put your Tumpty Dumpty hat on and take both of them, make sure that you have your full Trump disguise on..   I did and scored very high on both, 36 out of 40 on the Psychopathy test and 38 out of 45 on the Sadist test, and was very pleased until I realized the lower score was the best!  http://uk.businessinsider.com/hare-psychopath-checklist-test-sociopath-2016-11

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Kieran00001 Explorer Member

Kieran00001

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, riclag said:

There will be no finality to this in our lifetime! To think so would be naive.One thing for certain is the left has reared it's deranged and demonic head,the likes no one could of  imagined ! In the future any association with Russia ,being investments in salad dressing companies  to tennis stars will be scrutinized with malicious intent 

 

Any future association with any foreign country during an election campaign that is lied about and hidden should obviously be scrutinised, that would be a good thing that will come out of all this, greater protection of the US from foreign agents, or do you wan the US to be pushed around by the Kremlin just as long as they also support the same buffoon as you?

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Srikcir Platinum Member

Srikcir

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, riclag said:

In the future any association with Russia ,being investments in salad dressing companies  to tennis stars will be scrutinized with malicious intent 

Russian investments in the US in 2017 didn't even rank among the Top 20 highest FDI's with The UK ranking 1st and Denmark ranking 20th!  https://www.statista.com/statistics/456713/leading-fdi-countries-usa/

Legitimate Russian investments by legitimate and transparent commercial enterprises in the US is not the issue and perhaps presented as more of an emotional diversion from the topic at hand.

What the Mueller investigation is in part directed towards is the "dark" covert use of Russian funds coming from its intelligence agencies to influence American politics such as presidential elections to further Russian political agendas, ie., Make Russia Great Again.

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pegman Gold Member

pegman

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, riclag said:

There will be no finality to this in our lifetime! To think so would be naive.One thing for certain is the left has reared it's deranged and demonic head,the likes no one could of  imagined ! In the future any association with Russia ,being investments in salad dressing companies  to tennis stars will be scrutinized with malicious intent 

There will be finality for Trump. His outcome will be living out his days as a convict. In general American prosecutors have the "malicious intent" you write of. They set their sights on you and then peruse your imprisonment relentlessly. That is what the guy who was a warrior during the Vietnam War, Mueller, is doing with the guy who had daddy Fred payoff the local enlistment office. It feels like the first act of this Shakespearian play is coming to a close. The next two should be even more entertaining.

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wayned Ruby Member

wayned

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Posted

IMHO Trump will at least complete his first term no matter what the out come of the Mueller investigation is.. 

 

 If the Dems take over the house this year   They will go through the lengthy process of impeaching him.  He then has to be tried and convicted in the Senate.  Even if the Dems win control of the Senate, he will not be convicted as it would require 67 votes.  Trump knows this and is most likely resigned to the fact that this will happen.  The Impeachment process and trail will take most, if not all, of the 2 years that he has left until the 2020 election. The Dems time, including media coverage,  will be consumed with this process rather than using it to search for and validate a viable candidate to run in 2020.

 

Everything that Trump is doing now is geared at fortifying his base.  When the 2020 election nears he will most likely have to compete in a primary.  If the GOP does what they did last time and there are  17 candidates  in the race, he is counting on his base to get him over the top in the primary.

 

He will then run against whoever the Dems have nominated, but I would be worried about all of the time taken up by the impeachment process.

 

He could actually win reelection if the American people and the GOP don't play their cards right.  He would give a flying crap about who was indicted by Mueller, even members of his own family. 

 

He's a sadistic psychopath with no conscience. As I said it's  IMHO.

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mikebike Platinum Member

mikebike

Posted
Posted

No need to drag the country thru impeachment. Most Dems recognize this... if they take house and/or Senate they can do what 45 fears most... hang him out as a lame duck and leave him to tweet into the vacuum which is his base. 

 

No attention will shrivel 45 faster than impeachment. 

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Kieran00001 Explorer Member

Kieran00001

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, mikebike said:

No need to drag the country thru impeachment. Most Dems recognize this... if they take house and/or Senate they can do what 45 fears most... hang him out as a lame duck and leave him to tweet into the vacuum which is his base. 

 

No attention will shrivel 45 faster than impeachment. 

 

This is not about taking a little dig at Trump, this is about justice for the American people.

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Srikcir Platinum Member

Srikcir

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, wayned said:

The Impeachment process and trail will take most, if not all, of the 2 years that he has left until the 2020 election.

Time line for President Clinton's impeachment ( http://time.com/5120561/bill-clinton-monica-lewinsky-timeline/  ) :

1998 (year of mid-term elections)

  • Oct. 5 - House judiciary committee votes along party lines to recommend an impeachment inquiry.
  • Oct. 8 - House of Representatives votes to begin an open-ended impeachment inquiry
  • Nov. 5 - House Judiciary Committee asks Clinton 81 written questions about the independent counsel’s report.
  • Dec. 11 - House Judiciary committee votes to recommend impeachment.
  • Dec. 19 - The House of Representatives votes to impeach President Clinton

1999

  • Jan. 7 - Senate begins its impeachment trial of President Clinton. 
  • Feb. 12 - Senate finishes the impeachment trial

Four and a half months for congressional impeachment proceedings, not two years. But in the case of Trump such timeline would follow completion of Mueller's report - three months and in time for the new Congress?

Also note that during Clinton's impeachment his approval rating was 60+% vs Trump's current rating of 40% (Sept. 3-9), possible affect on Senate and/or House composition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_image_of_Bill_Clinton#/media/File:Clinton_approval_rating.png

https://news.gallup.com/poll/203198/presidential-approval-ratings-donald-trump.aspx

 

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wayned Ruby Member

wayned

Posted
Posted
34 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Time line for President Clinton's impeachment ( http://time.com/5120561/bill-clinton-monica-lewinsky-timeline/  ) :

1998 (year of mid-term elections)

  • Oct. 5 - House judiciary committee votes along party lines to recommend an impeachment inquiry.
  • Oct. 8 - House of Representatives votes to begin an open-ended impeachment inquiry
  • Nov. 5 - House Judiciary Committee asks Clinton 81 written questions about the independent counsel’s report.
  • Dec. 11 - House Judiciary committee votes to recommend impeachment.
  • Dec. 19 - The House of Representatives votes to impeach President Clinton

1999

  • Jan. 7 - Senate begins its impeachment trial of President Clinton. 
  • Feb. 12 - Senate finishes the impeachment trial

Four and a half months for congressional impeachment proceedings, not two years. But in the case of Trump such timeline would follow completion of Mueller's report - three months and in time for the new Congress?

Also note that during Clinton's impeachment his approval rating was 60+% vs Trump's current rating of 40% (Sept. 3-9), possible affect on Senate and/or House composition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_image_of_Bill_Clinton#/media/File:Clinton_approval_rating.png

https://news.gallup.com/poll/203198/presidential-approval-ratings-donald-trump.aspx

 

I think that you are oversimplifying the situation.  Clinton was impeached on two charges, perjury and obstruction of justice, stemming from the Paula Jones incident.  Until the Mueller report is released by Mueller and is released to the public, which may never happen, we will not know what charges, if any, there will be.  If it is not released, that would not stop the case from being reopened in the house and senate committees and all the witnesses that testified and all of those that the Dems wanted would be subpoenaed  to testify. it also took place  when the workings of the House and Senate were closer to "normal rule". It could take a very long time.

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