Is going back home easier said than done?

[VBF]

8 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

How much is a good IPA in Thailand ?? 

 

I cant get a pint for less than 250.. often in the 300s.

@LivinLOS  You missed my point I think. I was trying to compare like with like - IE Chang in Thailand, with IPA in UK. I doubt you can get good IPA in Thailand anyway - I've certainly never found good Guinness though I've had a couple of absolutely awful ones in so-called Irish Bars in Pattaya - yeah, right!

 

I was actually pointing out that some things in UK can be cheap, but only if you seek them out.

 

Like anywhere in the world, once you get to know a place, you find the venues that suit you, price-wise and otherwise. Last time I went to Phuket (and it will be the last time!)  I remember thinking that beers on Soi Bangla were more expensive than the City of London!

 

But as a case in point, I can drink cheap UK pints in Wetherspoons in UK, or expensive pints in other pubs.

Same as in Pattaya, I can pay 100 Baht for a bottle of Leo, or 45 Baht in one of my favourite music bars! (as of April 2018)

 

[LivinLOS]

7 hours ago, CGW said:

I shall ignore the first paragraph of your post ?

 

I was referring to personal income tax, I moved to Thailand many moons ago due to the ridiculously high personal income taxes in the UK, the saving pays for the many goods that cost far more here in Thailand. 

And most farangs who come here have no income here.. If you have no income in the UK theres no income tax also !! 

 

 

[LivinLOS]

7 hours ago, HHTel said:

Because of the sinking pound, 300 baht is well over 7 quid!!

In one of the craft beer bars I frequent they were selling a Saison for 400 something baht.. Close to a tenner for 500ml 

 

ALL the good non domestic beers are over 250.. Most mid to low 300s.. Thats truly a like for like international comparison when you not talking the swill of Thai domestic beers. 

Thailands cheap stuff.. is the low quality stuff.. Good stuff ?? Way more than the west.. 

[The manic]

I can slot back in easily.  I have a family I get on with and still have a community of friends, though less than before. We still go to the same pubs and meet  up. Food is very cheap in the UK. But the weather from November to April is a bit grim. And its boring compared to Thailand where so much is happening. Of course eating out can be cheaper in Thailand and high end food is cheaper. And girls are available in Thailand. Thailand is much safer than the UK. I have my own place in London so its easy to  visit if I want but I dont think I'll return permanently for the time being. But I can when I want and maybe I will...but not just yet!

[The manic]

12 hours ago, wgdanson said:

Camra bitter, Hollands steak puds, there's 2. But agree with you, I will never go back for more than a month's holiday, that's if they'll let me in after Brexit!

To be fair there are some excellent craft beers in Thailand now and Pattaya has pies as good as Britain or Australia......everywhere!

[The manic]

11 hours ago, upu2 said:

I consider Thailand to be my home. England has no appeal for me what so ever. Living in any country means you need to adapt to that countries way of life. I have found that to be pretty easy in Thailand but maybe that is because for more than half my life  living and working overseas so for me it is just a routine thing to assimilate to the country I am in.

Yeah Compared to Saudi, Kuwait, India, Iran, Pakistan, Libya, Afghanistan etc Thailand is easy. Many European countries are fun, especially Spain but Thailand is more fun and cheaper. But Portugal is good. Greece has potential. The Balkans are great. By returning to the UK all such European destinations are available which is pretty cool. 

[The manic]

8 hours ago, watcharacters said:

 

 

Congratulations HHTel,

 

I honestly wonder if you are the sole  exception.    Ive heard so many expats  in SEA brag about how they don't pay any taxes to any  country.    It's a badge of honor to many

 

I know Brits have a tax  obligation under specific circumstances but most Brits deny it.

 

We only pay taxes on income generated from within the UK. If we are working and living abroad we do not pay income tax.

[Catoni]

Be pepared to get hit hard with reverse culture shock if you go back home.  Spending just a couple of months in a new country living with the people and absorbing the foreign culture is enough to change you permanently and result in some reverse culture shock. 

   It's not like a two week vacation staying in a fancy hotel. 

    If you've spent years living in another country... the hit will be even much...  much worse.  

 

Four months in northern Thailand, and two months in Siem Reap, Cambodia actually living with and helping the poverty stricken people, followed by five days in Bangkok, and spending lots of time at temples and eating street food, was enough to make me feel that I no longer belonged in my birth country when I returned to Canada. I feel now that I belong in southeast Asia...  

   My niece had a similar experience when she spent four months in South Africa and then returned to Canada. 

Good Luck ! ! 

[Jip99]

I would miss the bum gun.

 

One week away from Thailand and I am pining for a squirt.

[The manic]

2 hours ago, Jip99 said:

I would miss the bum gun.

 

One week away from Thailand and I am pining for a squirt.

I know what you mean. Once you are used to the BG harsh abrasive toilet paper bavk in the west  causes, anal fissures,  haemaroids, abrasions, and the dreaded 'clagging'. On my next UK place I'm getting a BG plumbed in. The alternative is water based wet wipes.

[HHTel]

5 hours ago, Catoni said:

Be pepared to get hit hard with reverse culture shock if you go back home.  Spending just a couple of months in a new country living with the people and absorbing the foreign culture is enough to change you permanently and result in some reverse culture shock. 

   It's not like a two week vacation staying in a fancy hotel. 

    If you've spent years living in another country... the hit will be even much...  much worse.  

My son came over here when he was 20 and returned to the UK at 32.  He worked all the time he was here, speaks the language and lived on Thai food with most of his friends being Thai.  He's been back in the UK for 2 years and slipped right back in.  

My daughter (half Thai) came to Thailand when she was 5, had her education here and went back to the UK 2 years ago when she was 18.  Had no problem 'fitting in' and is very settled.

I know several people who have returned to the UK after 20 years or more in Thailand and don't have a problem.  Most of them report that they were surprised how cheap it was there and in the main, glad they made the decision.

So I don't think your argument of a 'reverse culture shock' holds much water.

 

[Andrew Dwyer]

Be pepared to get hit hard with reverse culture shock if you go back home.  Spending just a couple of months in a new country living with the people and absorbing the foreign culture is enough to change you permanently and result in some reverse culture shock. 
   It's not like a two week vacation staying in a fancy hotel. 
    If you've spent years living in another country... the hit will be even much...  much worse.  
 
Four months in northern Thailand, and two months in Siem Reap, Cambodia actually living with and helping the poverty stricken people, followed by five days in Bangkok, and spending lots of time at temples and eating street food, was enough to make me feel that I no longer belonged in my birth country when I returned to Canada. I feel now that I belong in southeast Asia...  
   My niece had a similar experience when she spent four months in South Africa and then returned to Canada. 
Good Luck ! ! 

Yes !!

Many years ago, just before Xmas, some colleagues and myself borrowed the works van and headed down to Dover. We boarded the cross channel ferry and landed in Calais. Finding the nearest Hypermarket we stocked up on cheap beer and wine, cigarettes and toys for the kids.
We headed back to the port and boarded the return ferry.
Upon disembarkation we were totally confused about which side of the road to drive on and couldn’t understand a word the locals were saying !!

Imagine our surprise when we learned we had boarded the wrong ferry and were in Oslo !!

Oh , how we laughed !! [emoji23]

[Catoni]

45 minutes ago, HHTel said:

My son came over here when he was 20 and returned to the UK at 32.  He worked all the time he was here, speaks the language and lived on Thai food with most of his friends being Thai.  He's been back in the UK for 2 years and slipped right back in.  

My daughter (half Thai) came to Thailand when she was 5, had her education here and went back to the UK 2 years ago when she was 18.  Had no problem 'fitting in' and is very settled.

I know several people who have returned to the UK after 20 years or more in Thailand and don't have a problem.  Most of them report that they were surprised how cheap it was there and in the main, glad they made the decision.

So I don't think your argument of a 'reverse culture shock' holds much water.

 

On the contrary.... it's your argument against reverse culture shock that holds no water.   You're foolish and ..shall we say....  less than honest....

 

To put it nicely.... you're being very much less than honest..

 

    I'm sure you won't mind bringing cites and references to back your claim that my claim of reverse culture shock holds no water....   

   ..in the meantime....  I'll back up my argument with cites and references.... .I'm sure you don't mind... 

 

   If all the information sources below is not enough to make you happy..... I can bring much... much more here for you if you wish.. . 

 

    https://www.state.gov/m/fsi/tc/c56075.htm

            Reverse Culture Shock Overview

https://vancouversun.com/news/community-blogs/7-signs-of-reverse-culture-shock-and-how-to-deal

https://vancouversun.com/news/community-blogs/reverse-culture-shock-learning-how-to-come-home

https://www.themuse.com/advice/home-sweet-home-dealing-with-reverse-culture-shock

https://oiss.yale.edu/life/leaving-yale/re-entry-shock

Re-Entry Shock

Returning home to one’s native culture after having lived overseas typically carries with it a period of adjustment, known as re-entry shock, or reverse culture shock. 

https://www.isepstudyabroad.org/articles/330

6 Tips For Dealing With Reverse Culture Shock

https://www.gvicanada.ca/blog/5-steps-to-deal-with-reverse-culture-shock/

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/jul/20/reverse-culture-shock-tough-adjusting-home-studying-abroad

https://www.gooverseas.com/blog/reverse-culture-shock-coming-home-after-studying-abroad

https://www.vergemagazine.com/work-abroad/blogs/985-10-ways-to-overcome-reverse-culture-shock.html

https://thesavvybackpacker.com/reverse-culture-shock/

We spend so much time preparing for our travels overseas, but there is one area that no one seems to talk about — the reverse culture shock that nearly every traveler feels once they return home. In fact, most people are surprised that this is more difficult to deal with than the original culture shock they initially experienced. For many travelers, returning home is the hardest part of their trip. 

https://www.internations.org/guide/global/reverse-culture-shock-15346

A book on the subject:    https://www.amazon.ca/How-Survive-Reverse-Culture-Shock-ebook/dp/B00A7R8V4I

https://www.lostwithpurpose.com/reverse-culture-shock/

https://www.quora.com/Which-one-is-worst-culture-shock-or-reverse-culture-shock

http://www.travelinsurancereview.net/culture-shock/reverse/

https://www.topuniversities.com/student-info/studying-abroad/reverse-culture-shock-how-deal-it

    There' more......  much, much more....... or will this do you for now ? ? 

Are you happy now ? ?   5555555 ? 

  

[LivinLOS]

9 hours ago, The manic said:

Yeah Compared to Saudi, Kuwait, India, Iran, Pakistan, Libya, Afghanistan etc Thailand is easy. Many European countries are fun, especially Spain but Thailand is more fun and cheaper. But Portugal is good. Greece has potential. The Balkans are great. By returning to the UK all such European destinations are available which is pretty cool. 

I was a bit disappointed with Portugal last year.. Algarve too quiet and poor for me.. I would really like to spend a few months around the Balkans / Adriatic, looks wonderful. 

[LivinLOS]

9 hours ago, Catoni said:

Be pepared to get hit hard with reverse culture shock if you go back home.  Spending just a couple of months in a new country living with the people and absorbing the foreign culture is enough to change you permanently and result in some reverse culture shock. 

   It's not like a two week vacation staying in a fancy hotel. 

    If you've spent years living in another country... the hit will be even much...  much worse.  

 

Four months in northern Thailand, and two months in Siem Reap, Cambodia actually living with and helping the poverty stricken people, followed by five days in Bangkok, and spending lots of time at temples and eating street food, was enough to make me feel that I no longer belonged in my birth country when I returned to Canada. I feel now that I belong in southeast Asia...  

   My niece had a similar experience when she spent four months in South Africa and then returned to Canada. 

Good Luck ! ! 

ha ha.. a few months.. 

 

Thats a holiday.. 

[Catoni]

39 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

ha ha.. a few months.. 

 

Thats a holiday.. 

    If four months is a holiday.... I would be interested in what you call a two or three week trip ? ?  

[HHTel]

3 hours ago, Catoni said:

On the contrary.... it's your argument against reverse culture shock that holds no water.   You're foolish and ..shall we say....  less than honest....

 

To put it nicely.... you're being very much less than honest..

 

    I'm sure you won't mind bringing cites and references to back your claim that my claim of reverse culture shock holds no water....   

   ..in the meantime....  I'll back up my argument with cites and references.... .I'm sure you don't mind... 

 

   If all the information sources below is not enough to make you happy..... I can bring much... much more here for you if you wish.. . 

 

    https://www.state.gov/m/fsi/tc/c56075.htm

            Reverse Culture Shock Overview

https://vancouversun.com/news/community-blogs/7-signs-of-reverse-culture-shock-and-how-to-deal

https://vancouversun.com/news/community-blogs/reverse-culture-shock-learning-how-to-come-home

https://www.themuse.com/advice/home-sweet-home-dealing-with-reverse-culture-shock

https://oiss.yale.edu/life/leaving-yale/re-entry-shock

Re-Entry Shock

Returning home to one’s native culture after having lived overseas typically carries with it a period of adjustment, known as re-entry shock, or reverse culture shock. 

https://www.isepstudyabroad.org/articles/330

6 Tips For Dealing With Reverse Culture Shock

https://www.gvicanada.ca/blog/5-steps-to-deal-with-reverse-culture-shock/

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/jul/20/reverse-culture-shock-tough-adjusting-home-studying-abroad

https://www.gooverseas.com/blog/reverse-culture-shock-coming-home-after-studying-abroad

https://www.vergemagazine.com/work-abroad/blogs/985-10-ways-to-overcome-reverse-culture-shock.html

https://thesavvybackpacker.com/reverse-culture-shock/

We spend so much time preparing for our travels overseas, but there is one area that no one seems to talk about — the reverse culture shock that nearly every traveler feels once they return home. In fact, most people are surprised that this is more difficult to deal with than the original culture shock they initially experienced. For many travelers, returning home is the hardest part of their trip. 

https://www.internations.org/guide/global/reverse-culture-shock-15346

A book on the subject:    https://www.amazon.ca/How-Survive-Reverse-Culture-Shock-ebook/dp/B00A7R8V4I

https://www.lostwithpurpose.com/reverse-culture-shock/

https://www.quora.com/Which-one-is-worst-culture-shock-or-reverse-culture-shock

http://www.travelinsurancereview.net/culture-shock/reverse/

https://www.topuniversities.com/student-info/studying-abroad/reverse-culture-shock-how-deal-it

    There' more......  much, much more....... or will this do you for now ? ? 

Are you happy now ? ?   5555555 ? 

  

Firstly, I never said your argument holds NO water.  I was specifically talking about the UK and personal experiences.  All the articles that you quote and others that I have found refer to students and people still in their working life. i.e. they're coming back to a job.

Apart from my son and daughter who haven't suffered any signs of re-entry shock, most of the people I relate to are retired and having lived here for years are returning to the UK for various reasons.  i.e. health, financial, family etc.  There is a whole section on another forum with posts from people who have returned to the UK.  All retired.  Some with their wives, some not. Most of the content is very positive.

I spent 6 months in the UK a few years ago.  My intention was to settle and give my kids a better education.  The main reason that I returned was the fact that my kids didn't like it.  There were many pluses but at the end of the day, they preferred their Thai friends and of course they missed their mum who was still in Thailand.  They actually said that if they could take the good stuff from the UK back to Thailand, then it would be perfect. I never felt in those months any signs of 'shock'.  

Not everyone suffers with this condition but I accept it does happen in some demographics.

 

[sandyf]

21 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

Are they forgetting the council tax, utility bills, internet charges, parking charges, road tax and other taxes, parking fees, phone bills, water bills, hair cuts, public transport prices and the rest of the list?

 

 

That is a distorted generalisation that would not apply to many. If you do not drive and have a bus pass you can discount several straight away. Internet and phone are cheaper in the UK, when I go back for a month I get a £10 Lebara sim card, more than enough data and free phone calls for a month, my wife piggy backs off it and I use my phone as a hotspot for the laptop, internet bill alone here is 749 baht. You do not need a tv licence these days, more than enough tv available from the internet. Then there is medication, apart from normal hypertension I am on apixaban, 62 baht a tablet which would all be free in the UK.

No dispute over council tax or utilities but the extra £100 or so a month from the unfrozen pension would go a long way towards it, its not like I am without utilities here. Overall it would not be the massive expense that you would try and make out.

That being said, I would never go back unless it was necessary, don't like the cold.

 

[upu2]

11 hours ago, The manic said:

Yeah Compared to Saudi, Kuwait, India, Iran, Pakistan, Libya, Afghanistan etc Thailand is easy. Many European countries are fun, especially Spain but Thailand is more fun and cheaper. But Portugal is good. Greece has potential. The Balkans are great. By returning to the UK all such European destinations are available which is pretty cool. 

Exactly. I think Pakistan was easier than Saudi but Greece and Vietnam where good and Papua New Guinea, whilst having the obvious dangers, I really enjoyed. There again where I worked there was miles from Port Moresby

[Jip99]

8 hours ago, The manic said:

I know what you mean. Once you are used to the BG harsh abrasive toilet paper bavk in the west  causes, anal fissures,  haemaroids, abrasions, and the dreaded 'clagging'. On my next UK place I'm getting a BG plumbed in. The alternative is water based wet wipes.

 

 

Indeed.... if you add the necessity to collect stool samples for over 60’s bowel cancer screening, then ...............well, the BG just becomes essential.

 

 

 

(sorry, probably too much info there....)

[The manic]

24 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Indeed.... if you add the necessity to collect stool samples for over 60’s bowel cancer screening, then ...............well, the BG just becomes essential.

 

 

 

(sorry, probably too much info there....)

I just use my flatmate's teaspoon.

[Jip99]

1 hour ago, The manic said:

I just use my flatmate's teaspoon.

 

 

I can see that that would work.....

[jak2002003]

4 hours ago, sandyf said:

That is a distorted generalisation that would not apply to many. If you do not drive and have a bus pass you can discount several straight away. Internet and phone are cheaper in the UK, when I go back for a month I get a £10 Lebara sim card, more than enough data and free phone calls for a month, my wife piggy backs off it and I use my phone as a hotspot for the laptop, internet bill alone here is 749 baht. You do not need a tv licence these days, more than enough tv available from the internet. Then there is medication, apart from normal hypertension I am on apixaban, 62 baht a tablet which would all be free in the UK.

No dispute over council tax or utilities but the extra £100 or so a month from the unfrozen pension would go a long way towards it, its not like I am without utilities here. Overall it would not be the massive expense that you would try and make out.

That being said, I would never go back unless it was necessary, don't like the cold.

 

What you say has a lot of truth in it.

 

However, I think you will find you need a TV licence.. even just viewing stuff on the internet.  

 

I agree with you on your last sentence the most of all.  I have never been able to stand the cold.. even as a young guy.  My hands and feet would all go purple and pink and numb in the winter and people would think I needed to go to the hospital!!!  I sometimes would get chilled to the bone when waiting for my bus to work.. despite all the layers of winter clothing... and then get ill.

 

Over here, even the hot season in Chiang Mai... I feel much more comfortable.  

[LivinLOS]

6 hours ago, Catoni said:

    If four months is a holiday.... I would be interested in what you call a two or three week trip ? ?  

too short to contemplate bothering with ?? 

 

 

 

 

[Naam]

Quote

CGW said:

I was referring to personal income tax, I moved to Thailand many moons ago due to the ridiculously high personal income taxes in the UK, the saving pays for the many goods that cost far more here in Thailand. 

for many goods? it pays for each and every Baht of our living expenses in Thailand plus, on top of it, there's even a decent bundle left.

[GreasyFingers]

20 hours ago, TunnelRat69 said:

Love your Album Cover - Aqualung - Jethro Tull was an unappreciated Genius in my opinion.

Aqualung was always my poster child. I could have easily ended up like him so tried very hard not to.

Still listen to Tull as my favourite music.

[nausea]

Interesting topic. I've had one or two false starts but something always seems to crop up to keep me here. Yeah, then you wake up one day and suddenly realise it's like 10 years+. Guess it would be difficult readjustimg. Kipling's poem "Mandalay" springs to mind:

 

"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells:
"If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else."
No! you won't 'eed nothin' else
But them spicy garlic smells,
An' the sunshine an' the palm-trees an' the tinkly temple-bells;
On the road to Mandalay..."

 

Love London by the way, spent a good part of my working life in Brighton, which is just down the road. One thing I miss here is the culture, but you can't have everything. I know if I went home that would be it, Thailand would just be a fond memory, just like London is now.

 

[grin]

20 hours ago, TunnelRat69 said:

"with snots running down his nose............."

You guys are really taking me back. Saw them live and will never forget the magic flautist.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

On 9/16/2018 at 2:16 AM, Krataiboy said:

Here's a cautionary tale which might get a few potential returnees thinking. . . 

 

A pal of mine in his eighties who has been resident in Thailand for many years recently announced that he was returning to the UK on a permanent basis. He reckoned it was affordable and he wanted to spend more time with his family, particularly his grandchildren who he only got to see once a year when he flew back to Blighty for a few weeks' holiday.

 

I tried to point out some of the cons as well as the pros, just in case he hadn't thought of them. He clearly had, but his mind was made up. As I rather wistfully waved him farewell and bon voyage, he was in high spirits and clearly relishing the prospect of a new life in the old country.

 

I heard nothing from him for a week or two and left him alone, assuming (correctly, as it turned out) that he was having a hectic time catching up with friends and relatives and organising the nuts and bolts of his new life.

 

Then suddenly, out of the blue, came an email announcing he was coming back to live in Thailand. You could have knocked me and his other pals down with a feather. He didn't go into the reasons and I waited until we were celebrating his return with dinner at our favourite restaurant to satisfy my curiosity.

 

He listed a few problems which on their own weren't game changers: the reality that he would only be able to see his family occasionally; because of work and travel problems; the difficulty of making new friends (particularly female!) and building a new social life; the thought of enduring those long, cold winter months. Plus, of course, the higher cost of living.

 

Individually, all of these drawbacks were manageable. But in combination they were enough to shatter his dream of forging a happy new life in his former homeland.

 

My friend's disappointed family urged him to try for a few months before getting back on the plane to LOS, and I said I thought they may have a point. After all he had been away less than eight weeks. But he was admant that he had made the right choice. "I knew after eight days," he said, "that I would rather be in Thailand."

 

After two decades of living in the most volatile,  intriguing,  mixed-up, delightful, infuriating, contradictory and utterly endearing country in South-East Asia, what could I say but, "Me, too"?

 

A cautionary tale? More like a stupid post.

 

So, he was expecting that everyone bows to him and his glorious return after he mongered in Thailand for many years including his family who, god forbid.... had a job.

 

The female company that he so missed back in his home country will be available in Thailand for him as soon as he opens up his wallet. 

[Catoni]

8 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

too short to contemplate bothering with ?? 

 

 

 

 

Used to do two week trips to Florida from Canada in the winter, with the family when I was a kid. Had a great time.