May challenges EU as Brexit talks hit 'impasse', sterling tumbles

[Guest]

55 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

I read on other media that within Labour the movement is strong for demanding a 2nd ref.

If that is supported by the conf next week and the Unions back that,

it will make some impact, maybe not to the point that a 2nd ref will surface

 

but surely, an impact on the debate in the UK if both Labour and the Unions put their resources behind it.

 

interesting times

 

If the majority of the people support 2nd referendum, wouldn't that be democratic thing to do?

 

Good lord, I'm talking about democracy in the way religious folks talk about Christianity or whatever imaginary friend they believe. 

[ukrules]

11 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Tell me one significant trade deal the U.K. has secured since then?

The UK is not allowed to make trade deals whilst being a member of the EU.

 

[Walter Travolta]

7 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

I understand some people when they realize they fxxxed up big times they flee into denial and try to find someone else to blame. Given the sheer size of this desaster you created and all the arrogance around it (“easiest deal in history” etc.) I can see you need that now. But, come one, do you really think anyone has forgotten who left the EU, who talked big about how easy and wonderful everything would be, and what a great deal he would secure?

 

Tell me one significant trade deal the U.K. has secured since then? 

 

If that’s how you look at a negotiation then you certainly have other problems than just Brexit. By the way, no one asked for your homework, you’re free to not submit any more, especially since it’s just wasting people’s time. 

 

Are you thick pal?

Who has fxxxed up and fled into denial? Where is this disaster you talk about? Like I said the sky is still up there haha

Cant make our own trade deals until we have left and know where we are at (rules). Very dumb of you.

Your 3rd attempt was a waste of your time. I simply enlightened people that the EU are treating May like a kid, I cant stand her but the way the EU are acting is pompous at best. Thanks for your attempt at a wind up but I hope you understand 1 day what a crock of shyyyte you just babbled, accusing people of WHAT YOU THINK THEY ARE THINKING. Be a bit more humble instead of trying to be a know it all. Fake news is a problem and your 1st paragraph was riddled with it

[Walter Travolta]

Just now, oilinki said:

The disaster is on it's way, you Russian implant. 

You're hard, and it seems psychic

[Guest]

Just now, Walter Travolta said:

You're hard, and it seems psychic

Whatever you say, must be the eternal truth.

[Nigel Garvie]

5 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

I read on other media that within Labour the movement is strong for demanding a 2nd ref.

If that is supported by the conf next week and the Unions back that,

it will make some impact, maybe not to the point that a 2nd ref will surface

 

but surely, an impact on the debate in the UK if both Labour and the Unions put their resources behind it.

 

interesting times

 

Yes interesting indeed, although the Chinese apparently curse people by saying "May you live in interesting times". The problem for the Labour Party is that their inadequate, ideologically obsessed leaders don't want a 2nd referendum, they wan't an election (Although of course there is no guarantee that they would win one) so they can further their agenda. Basically this is putting party before country, though the Tories have been doing that for decades. It is possible that the Unions and the membership will kick some sense into Corbyn and his cronies, and make  clear that the economic disaster of Brexit is a desparate crisis for everyone in the country. I personally will donate a pair of Doc Martins to the person taking the first kick.

 

Edited September 22, 2018 by Nigel Garvie
correction

[Ron19]

A post against forum rules has been removed.

 

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

[superal]

www.bbc.com/news/uk-45614468

 

The above link demonstrates the feelings of many Brits who are fed up to the teeth with the long drawn out negotiations and the dithering of TM . I believe she will pay for her poor performance by losing her job at the Conservative Party Conference at the end of this month . On a humanity point the stress on her face is clear to see as she is backed into a corner . The tories need to replace her asap with a strong leader who can reunite the party or the outcome could be a general election with JC at the helm ( bookies favorite )

 

[baboon]

11 minutes ago, superal said:

www.bbc.com/news/uk-45614468

 

The above link demonstrates the feelings of many Brits who are fed up to the teeth with the long drawn out negotiations and the dithering of TM . I believe she will pay for her poor performance by losing her job at the Conservative Party Conference at the end of this month . On a humanity point the stress on her face is clear to see as she is backed into a corner . The tories need to replace her asap with a strong leader who can reunite the party or the outcome could be a general election with JC at the helm ( bookies favorite )

 

Sounds good to me. But that is by the by.

 

May's fellow Tories can continue ripping her to pieces, but who would want to seal his or her own political doom by replacing her at this very troubled time? Brexit won't go well no matter what, so why not let her carry the can and wait until it is over? 

[superal]

16 minutes ago, baboon said:

Sounds good to me. But that is by the by.

 

May's fellow Tories can continue ripping her to pieces, but who would want to seal his or her own political doom by replacing her at this very troubled time? Brexit won't go well no matter what, so why not let her carry the can and wait until it is over? 

I for one have not looked at the divorce agreement , however I am hearing that we will still be living in the same house and therefore still not free . That is not what the general public voted for . Rather that be cut free from the control of the EU it appears that they will still hold the reigns . TM has a " get out of jail card " by giving a two fingered salute to Barnier , Tusk & cronies . She has clearly taken the wrong road and needs to act positively to save her fate  .

[stevenl]

9 minutes ago, superal said:

I for one have not looked at the divorce agreement , however I am hearing that we will still be living in the same house and therefore still not free . That is not what the general public voted for . Rather that be cut free from the control of the EU it appears that they will still hold the reigns . TM has a " get out of jail card " by giving a two fingered salute to Barnier , Tusk & cronies . She has clearly taken the wrong road and needs to act positively to save her fate  .

Nobody knows what they voted for, that is one of the big problems here.

[sandyf]

"Throughout this process, I have treated the EU with nothing but respect," May said. "The UK expects the same. A good relationship at the end of this process depends on it."

 

What about the foot soldiers, maybe one of the brexiteers can explain.

Why should the EU have any respect for a section of the UK population that thinks the EU is nothing more than something you would scrape off your shoe?

Considering the abuse that gets posted and the political threats that have been voiced, they have been very diplomatic.

[welovesundaysatspace]

12 hours ago, Walter Travolta said:

Who has fxxxed up and fled into denial?

Let me think about it ... “the easiest deal in history”, “have our cake and eat it”, “Brexit means Brexit”. 

 

12 hours ago, Walter Travolta said:

Cant make our own trade deals until we have left and know where we are at (rules). Very dumb of you.

Very dumb of me? You were the one bragging with potential trade deals and calling other people stupid when they question that. 

 

12 hours ago, Walter Travolta said:

 I simply enlightened people that the EU are treating May like a kid, I cant stand her but the way the EU are acting is pompous at best.

If that’s how you look at a negotiation, I wish you good luck with all your future trade deals. I understand you guys are getting nervous, but let me tell you that rejection happens in negotiation, especially when you continuously waste the other party’s time by begging for the same things again that have been rejected since years. 

 

12 hours ago, Walter Travolta said:

I hope you understand 1 day what a crock of shyyyte you just babbled, accusing people of WHAT YOU THINK THEY ARE THINKING. Be a bit more humble instead of trying to be a know it all.

You guys are really getting nervous, huh?

 

12 hours ago, Walter Travolta said:

Fake news is a problem and your 1st paragraph was riddled with it

I understand you wish it was only fake news. Unfortunately it’s reality and you voted for it. 

[baboon]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

Nobody knows what they voted for, that is one of the big problems here.

Or everyone voted for something different to everyone else. Amounts to the same thing, though....

[billd766]

14 hours ago, oilinki said:

If the majority of the people support 2nd referendum, wouldn't that be democratic thing to do?

 

Good lord, I'm talking about democracy in the way religious folks talk about Christianity or whatever imaginary friend they believe. 

 

How about the other 27 countries in the EU being given the chance of a referendum and a vote on whether the EU should stay as it is, become a federal super state or go back to being a common market as it used to be?

 

Do you think that the "leadership" and the EU Commissioners would accept that? After all it would be the democratic thing to do, wouldn't it?

[melvinmelvin]

EU members are, still, free to arrange referenda as they feel fit, none of the Commissions business

 

[billd766]

31 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

EU members are, still, free to arrange referenda as they feel fit, none of the Commissions business

 

 

The Irish did that a while ago and had to vote again until they got it right in the eyes of the EU commissioners.

[welovesundaysatspace]

5 minutes ago, billd766 said:

The Irish did that a while ago and had to vote again until they got it right in the eyes of the EU commissioners.

Stop spreading nonsense. 

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

 

How about the other 27 countries in the EU being given the chance of a referendum and a vote on whether the EU should stay as it is, become a federal super state or go back to being a common market as it used to be? (...) After all it would be the democratic thing to do, wouldn't it?

May I also have a say in tax rates and annual budget? And how about drug laws, labor laws, and my idea that people should eat more healthy? I want a referendum for all those things. 

 

See, that’s not how a representative democracy works. 

 

If people don’t want to stay in the EU, they can vote for a government that triggers article 50 to exit the EU. They have the opportunity every 4 (?) years.  That’s how democracy works. 

Edited September 23, 2018 by welovesundaysatspace

[OJAS]

47 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Stop spreading nonsense. 

@billd766is actually spot on. The Irish had to have 2 goes in voting in referendums on the Lisbon Treaty in June 2008 and October 2009 before the second one finally produced the desired result from the Euromanic angle:-

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-eighth_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland

 

In future I suggest that you check your facts before making kneejerk accusations against others for spreading nonsense.

[welovesundaysatspace]

13 minutes ago, OJAS said:

In future I suggest that you check your facts before making kneejerk accusations against others for spreading nonsense.

Quite amusing how you accuse me of “kneejerk accusations” and suggest to “check your facts” while you fail to provide any evidence for the claim that “The Irish (...) had to vote again until they got it right in the eyes of the EU commissioners.” It’s pure nonsense; we could even say it’s an outright lie that “the EU commissioners” had any say in Ireland’s referendums.

 

Ireland is a sovereign state. They alone decided to hold a second referendum. In that Second Referendum, the Irish electorate alone decided to vote for the ratification of the treaty. If you want to blame anyone, then it is Ireland alone. 

Edited September 23, 2018 by welovesundaysatspace

[SheungWan]

On 9/22/2018 at 2:39 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

It’s a bit rich Theresa May asking the EU to come up with a plan for her.

She should at least first ask Rees-Mogg, Gove and Johnson for their Plan B.

Oh.... they don’t have a Plan B!

What the UK Govt would like is for the EU to reform itself to accommodate the UK. Bit tricky that one.

[SheungWan]

On 9/22/2018 at 9:47 AM, dunroaming said:

I don't think Theresa had any choice but to make that statement and make it the way she did.  Not possible to go to conference looking as weak and humiliated as she was.  Actually I felt for her and I think it may have just helped herself a little.  The EU don't want to be blamed for the no deal conclusion, if that is where we end up and they do need to at least look as if they are willing to make find a workable deal.

The Hard Brexiteers will try to lock the PM into a 'Hard' stance at the Conference plus argue that a committed Hard Brexiteer should lead the Party into the final rounds with no wavering. The problem they have is that no PM is going to have their hands tied by a conference plus the HBs do not have the numbers to unseat and replace her without bringing the whole house down. Maybe if the HBs had one undisputed representative but they are mostly a bunch of rats clawing each other for position inside a rather small linen bag.

Edited September 23, 2018 by SheungWan

[Esso49]

21 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

What the UK Govt would like is for the EU to reform itself to accommodate the UK. Bit tricky that one.

Unfortunately that is always the problem when a once great Empire has shrunk but many of its politicians still like to cling to the fact that that Great Britain is indeed still Great.  Being British I understand that,  but realism should dictate that what was once an Empire more than 100 years ago is no more , move on and accept that we are now no more, or no less important then any other nation within the the EEC, as much as that may hurt to accept.

Edited September 23, 2018 by Esso49

[IgboChief]

20 hours ago, bristolboy said:

What's this massive shortfall? Massive maybe compared to the total EU budget, not much when it comes to the combined budges of France and Germany alone. Germany had a budget surplus of 36 billion euros in 2017. That's roughly 3 times the net contribution of the UK to the EU.

Also it looks like Germany and France will get large parts of the British industry, especially Banks and Insurances. While we Germans were sceptic to Brexit first, we seem to benefit large from it. Frankfurt is booming these days. Hard Brexit now!

Whenever I speak with British people, who are not just pensioners or on welfare, but actually travelling and working, it strikes me how small their optimism on "Brexit" actually is. They reckon, that no international company will have its European HQ in the UK near soon, which is just great news from France and Germany or the Netherlands.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, OJAS said:

@billd766is actually spot on. The Irish had to have 2 goes in voting in referendums on the Lisbon Treaty in June 2008 and October 2009 before the second one finally produced the desired result from the Euromanic angle:-

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-eighth_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland

 

In future I suggest that you check your facts before making kneejerk accusations against others for spreading nonsense.

So Irish people can educate themselves and learn from their past mistake. That's good in my view.

If only UK would be able to renew itself in similar manner ?

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, Esso49 said:

Unfortunately that is always the problem when a once great Empire has shrunk but many of its politicians still like to cling to the fact that that Great Britain is indeed still Great.  Being British I understand that,  but realism should dictate that what was once an Empire more than 100 years ago is no more , move on and accept that we are now no more, or no less important then any other nation within the the EEC, as much as that may hurt to accept.

This! If only most of the Brits would see that the world has gone forward since the times of British empire. 

 

The idea of Britain being Great, resonates even here on this forum. If Britain would understand what was then, is no longer, co-operation with Britain would be much easier. 

 

France, Spain and Portugal used to be Great. Soviet Union used to be Great. USA used to be Great. France, Spain and Portugal has managed adapt to the newer realities. UK is still mentally hangin in the past. Russia.. well, it's behaving like a teenager at the moment. USA's hangover will be mighty one once their power over the world reduces. 

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, Esso49 said:

Unfortunately that is always the problem when a once great Empire has shrunk but many of its politicians still like to cling to the fact that that Great Britain is indeed still Great.  Being British I understand that,  but realism should dictate that what was once an Empire more than 100 years ago is no more , move on and accept that we are now no more, or no less important then any other nation within the the EEC, as much as that may hurt to accept.

 

Here UK politicians have a lot in common with UK Expat barstool kings/riders in LoS.

 

[melvinmelvin]

18 minutes ago, oilinki said:

This! If only most of the Brits would see that the world has gone forward since the times of British empire. 

 

The idea of Britain being Great, resonates even here on this forum. If Britain would understand what was then, is no longer, co-operation with Britain would be much easier. 

 

France, Spain and Portugal used to be Great. Soviet Union used to be Great. USA used to be Great. France, Spain and Portugal has managed adapt to the newer realities. UK is still mentally hangin in the past. Russia.. well, it's behaving like a teenager at the moment. USA's hangover will be mighty one once their power over the world reduces. 

 

oilinki,

 

UK suffers from a very serious attack of superiority complex, very serious

thats kinda the main problem - they just cannot fathom that UK is just another country in Europe

 

[Esso49]

5 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

oilinki,

 

UK suffers from a very serious attack of superiority complex, very serious

thats kinda the main problem - they just cannot fathom that UK is just another country in Europe

 

Some of us fathomed it. That's why we left it to the millions of immigrants