First time sent to inmigration office at Don Mueang airport

[Loqador]

Hi everybody.

 

Im very worried about what happened today at Don Mueang airport as i came back from a 15 days trip to Japan and was asked a lot of questions.

I had a new passport in January 2018 at my country (Spain) and got a tourist thai visa, then i arrived to Thailand in february. After that i have travelled to some countries in these months as Japan,China,Indonesia or Malaysia. I didnt get a new tourist visa in any of those places and spent around 15 days in every of them, then after every trip a re entered Thailand with the 30 days visa exemption. This time was my 6th time that i entered Thailand without tourist visa(maybe it was the reason of the problem).

 

Well,today then when i showed my passport at immigration the man who checked it called another woman and she told me that i had to follow her to the office.

She started to make me a lot of questions that i answered and she said that i was living in Thailand and told me many times that i have to go back to my country now.

I couldnt see the point of this as i never made an overstay or broke any rule during my time here. I was asked where im going next time and i said Hanoi, and asked again after Hanoi and i said i dont know,i will see,but at least i already have a flight ticket to Hanoi at the end of this month.

 

Then she called another man who came and explained me that i had have been stay in Thailand 183 days already this year and i could not stay more and he decided to give me 14 days to leave the country,but i told him that i have a flight to Hanoi and finally gave me 30 days.

They wrote many notes on their computer and even on the pages that they printed where it shown how many times i entered to thailand and how many days i had spend.

Also in my departure card(TM6) they wrote in thai language that i have stayed 183 days here and dont have any plans after Hanoi to come back my country and i should get a Non B visa next time to enter.

 

I planned to come back to Thailand in November with a tourist visa but now im not sure what should i do.

Should i continue with my plan? Or come back to my country and get a new passport? Or enter at a different city or airport ?

 

If anyone have any tip or idea about this issue i will be greateful.

[overherebc]

There is no rule now on 180 days. That was changed a few years ago.

A B visa would only be needed if you were doing business or were sponsored by a Thai company for working here so basically everything they told you is wrong.

Next time you come back have 20,000 baht cash, a return ticket to somewhere a tourist visa and a printed out booking for where you are going to stay and pick another entry point is all I can suggest.

[Cletus]

Many stories like yours lately on this forum and facebook groups. You seem to be a genuine tourist, get a tourist visa in Hanoi next time you're there and enter Thailand by land (avoid Poipet). New passport won't help at Immigration but only at consulate/embassy when applying for new visa's.

[Maestro]

Is Don Mueang airport one of the favourite places where incompetent immigration officials get transferred to?

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Loqador said:

I planned to come back to Thailand in November with a tourist visa but now im not sure what should i do.

Should i continue with my plan? Or come back to my country and get a new passport? Or enter at a different city or airport ?

You should spread your travels out a bit more.

Philippines 30 days waiver on entry (can pay to stay 3 years without leaving)

Malaysia 90 days waiver on entry

Vietnam 14 days waiver on entry

Laos 30 days visa on arrival ($35)

 

No need to spend so much time in Thailand.

Edited October 3, 2018 by BritManToo

[BritTim]

Do not, under any circumstances, enter Thailand by air without an actual visa. With a tourist visa, you will likely be OK (even entering by air) but entering by land (except at Aran/Poipet) is safer. You can enter twice per calendar year by land without a visa, and safely get a visa exempt entry (again, avoid Aran/Poipet).

 

If of a nervous disposition,

1. Get a tourist visa while in Hanoi. It is actually a pretty good place to apply.
2. Fly from Hanoi to Vientiane, and enter Thailand via the Friendship Bridge to Nong Khai.
3. Arrange to go wherever you want to end up in Thailand from there. Udon airport is about 45 minutes from the Friendship Bridge if you prefer to fly.

The above is very safe. If it seems too much of a hassle, with a tourist visa, you will likely be fine even flying into a Thai airport. Good luck!

[elviajero]

6 hours ago, Loqador said:

I planned to come back to Thailand in November with a tourist visa but now im not sure what should i do.

Should i continue with my plan? Or come back to my country and get a new passport? Or enter at a different city or airport ?

 

If anyone have any tip or idea about this issue i will be greateful.

If you are going to attempt to stay long term in the country as a 'tourist' you should avoid using visa exemption. When you next enter you should have at least a Tourist Visa or ideally a Non-immigrant Visa.

 

Getting a new passport will not help as your passports will almost certainly get linked and the IO will still see your history.

[elviajero]

6 hours ago, overherebc said:

There is no rule now on 180 days. That was changed a few years ago.

And yet in report, after report, after report this 180 day rule gets quoted!

 

There is not a published regulation with a strict limit on the time spent in the country as a tourist, and no one knows what rules/orders the IO's are working to. However, it is evident that they are on the look out for 'tourists' that spend more than 180 days in the country, and have the power to deny entry or limit the stay of these long term tourists.

Edited October 3, 2018 by elviajero

[JackThompson]

13 hours ago, Maestro said:

Is Don Mueang airport one of the favourite places where incompetent immigration officials get transferred to?

 

They wouldn't be doing this if not ordered/paid to do so by someone for some reason.  Stopping this person coming to Thailand - clearly not working here, given time spent outside between entries - would only have downsides to the Thai economy.  I can think of several good motivations, but cannot prove them.

 

@Loqador- As others suggested, one must always use a Tourist Visa if one is a more-frequent and/or longer-staying visitor.  There is a vaguely-worded ministerial order limiting visa-exempt use - intended to stop those doing quick out/in runs - which gives IOs cover to do this to folks like yourself.  Even with a Tourist Visa, you could have trouble at the Bangkok airports - but it is far less-likely. 

To avoid all risk, you would need to enter via a land-border (other than Poipet/Aranyaprathet - avoid it!) with a Tourist Visa and 20K Baht worth of cash or travelers checks.  We do not have any reports of those prepared with these having a problem at those locations for years, other than one person with a history of overstays.

[lkv]

You can come back into Thailand using a tourist visa.

 

The issue was that you used visa exempt too many times (six).

 

As per latest negative report coming out of DMK, the poster also entering visa exempt was told he can come back with a tourist visa.

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1395920320731833/permalink/2227322067591650/

[Loqador]

Thank you very much for your replies.

 

After read all your comments im considering two options.I will take my flight to Hanoi and then:

a) Get a thai visa there and take a flight to Chiang Mai

b) Get a thai visa,take a flight to Kuala Lumpur or Vientiane and cross the border at Padang Besar or Friendship Bridge

 

In my case i would prefer to take a flight because it is faster.

 

About the money i had yesterday at DMK airport 30.000 bath in my pocket,my flight confirmation to Hanoi,hotel etc ... but they never asked me to show them my proofs.

 

 

[overherebc]

Just a thought.

Are IO's quoting 180 days, are they actually saying 180 days on VE and the finer points are being missed on translation?????

Note ?????

Edited October 4, 2018 by overherebc

[FritsSikkink]

10 hours ago, elviajero said:

And yet in report, after report, after report this 180 day rule gets quoted!

 

There is not a published regulation with a strict limit on the time spent in the country as a tourist, and no one knows what rules/orders the IO's are working to. However, it is evident that they are on the look out for 'tourists' that spend more than 180 days in the country, and have the power to deny entry or limit the stay of these long term tourists.

As stated, there is no rule but maybe because if you stay in a country for more than 180 days you become a "tax resident".

[BritTim]

23 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Just a thought.

Are IO's quoting 180 days, are they actually saying 180 days on VE and the finer points are being missed on translation?????

Note ?????

My strong suspicion is that the "over 180 days" limit is a guideline to officials similar to the six total visa exempt entries. That is: it is not a firm limit, just a notification to the official that you should be scrutinized more closely than usual as a genuine tourist. Thus, the questioning may not be a big concern (if you have a tourist visa) unless there are other red flags from the official's point of view. However, I think inevitably it will vary greatly from official to official how they react to the notification.

[elviajero]

35 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Just a thought.

Are IO's quoting 180 days, are they actually saying 180 days on VE and the finer points are being missed on translation?????

Note ?????

It’s not unique to VE. It’s been quoted by people using TR’s too; however, clearly VE is their main focus.

 

If they were to apply a fixed limit for tourism it would almost certainly be 180 days/year.

[overherebc]

9 minutes ago, BritTim said:

My strong suspicion is that the "over 180 days" limit is a guideline to officials similar to the six total visa exempt entries. That is: it is not a firm limit, just a notification to the official that you should be scrutinized more closely than usual as a genuine tourist. Thus, the questioning may not be a big concern (if you have a tourist visa) unless there are other red flags from the official's point of view. However, I think inevitably it will vary greatly from official to official how they react to the notification.

 

Not only here. Mate took his GF to UK and after going through Imm' was waiting for her. After a while he approached the rear of the booth ans asked what's wrong, why so long she's got a visa.

Answer he got was on the lines of, I'll decide if she comes in or not so butt out please you're not helping.

She did get in though.

[overherebc]

5 minutes ago, elviajero said:

It’s not unique to VE. It’s been quoted by people using TR’s too; however, clearly VE is their main focus.

 

If they were to apply a fixed limit for tourism it would almost certainly be 180 days/year.

 

At one time they did but I can't remember when it was changed.

[elviajero]

36 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

As stated, there is no rule but maybe because if you stay in a country for more than 180 days you become a "tax resident".

Yes, I believe that is line at which point the authorities do not consider someone’s reason to visit is tourism. They are a long term visitor considered to be living (temporarily resident) in the country, and should get an appropriate long term visa/permit for the actual reason for their stay.

[elviajero]

17 minutes ago, BritTim said:

My strong suspicion is that the "over 180 days" limit is a guideline to officials similar to the six total visa exempt entries. That is: it is not a firm limit, just a notification to the official that you should be scrutinized more closely than usual as a genuine tourist. Thus, the questioning may not be a big concern (if you have a tourist visa) unless there are other red flags from the official's point of view. However, I think inevitably it will vary greatly from official to official how they react to the notification.

Pretty much what I have been writing on this forum for years.

 

6x30 day visa exempt stays equals 180 days! That’s why the flag is set at 6.

[elviajero]

7 minutes ago, overherebc said:

 

At one time they did but I can't remember when it was changed.

It was 2008 ish. It was a maximum of 90 days in any 180 day period (equivalent to 180 days per year), but only for visa exempt entries. 

 

It was stopped because it became impractical for IO’s to manually count the number of days stayed using the stamps in the passport.

[lemonwaterjoe]

5 hours ago, lkv said:

 

 

The issue was that you used visa exempt too many times (six).

 

 

3 hours ago, elviajero said:

6x30 day visa exempt stays equals 180 days! That’s why the flag is set at 6. 

 

 

Hi,

 

Not sure if this is the issue. I just checked my passport:

 

2018: Entered Thailand 8 times (2 more trips to come this year) using visa exempt (30 days stamp at arrival at immigration)

2017: Entered Thailand 10 times using visa exempt (30 days stamp at arrival at immigration)

2016: Entered Thailand 9 times using visa exempt (30 days stamp at arrival at immigration)

2015: Entered Thailand 8 times using visa exempt (30 days stamp at arrival at immigration)

 

 

I never ever got any problem or were asked any questions. But I have to say I never stayed 30 days, usually I stay 14-18 days and then fly back to Europe and come back 4-8 weeks later.

 

Cheers

 

 

Edited October 4, 2018 by lemonwaterjoe
added one more quote

[elviajero]

14 minutes ago, lemonwaterjoe said:

 

 

 

Hi,

 

Not sure if this is the issue. I just checked my passport:

 

2018: Entered Thailand 8 times (2 more trips to come this year) using visa exempt (30 days stamp at arrival at immigration)

2017: Entered Thailand 10 times using visa exempt (30 days stamp at arrival at immigration)

2016: Entered Thailand 9 times using visa exempt (30 days stamp at arrival at immigration)

2015: Entered Thailand 8 times using visa exempt (30 days stamp at arrival at immigration)

 

 

I never ever got any problem or were asked any questions. But I have to say I never stayed 30 days, usually I stay 14-18 days and then fly back to Europe and come back 4-8 weeks later.

 

Cheers

 

 

They are trying to stop people ‘living’ in the country, which you clearly are not. It’s not about the number of times you enter but the length of time you stay. As you only stay 2/3 weeks, and return to your home country between visits, I doubt you will have a problem.

 

I have a friend that works (Mon - Fri) in Cambodia. He enters using visa exempt 40+ times a year and never gets questioned.

[NoshowJones]

21 hours ago, Maestro said:

Is Don Mueang airport one of the favourite places where incompetent immigration officials get transferred to?

Probably. Don Muang must be over run by incompetent immigration officers.

[Trek800]

I had similar situation today in Hat Yai Airport. Tried to enter country on a visa exempt entry about 24h after I had left to Malaysia a day earlier. After 10 minutes chat with the supervisor she decided to let me in but I had to promise I will go home after my 30 days stay ????

I actually had a ticket to back home to show her but what she didn't like was that this year I have maxed out my every 30 or 60 days stay in Thailand.

This year I have 3 visa exempt entries, one from BKK Airport and two from Padang Besar Land border. Also I have 2 entries with SETV, One from Padang Besar and another from BKK. If Im not mistaking then I have spent total 210 days in Thailand and it will be 240 days total after I leave to Canada this November.

 

Do you think I will have any issues entering the country again at Suvarnabhumi with a Tourist visa around mid march next year? Before 2018 I haven't spent much time here and also 2019 I dont plan to stay as long as I did this time.

Edited October 4, 2018 by Trek800
Corrected a grammar mistake

[elviajero]

6 hours ago, Trek800 said:

Do you think I will have any issues entering the country again at Suvarnabhumi with a Tourist visa around mid march next year? Before 2018 I haven't spent much time here and also 2019 I dont plan to stay as long as I did this time.

No one knows, but as long as you enter with a visa you should be ok. Visa exempt entries are immigrations main target.

Edited October 4, 2018 by elviajero

[Maestro]

Removed an abusive post.

[moe666]

16 hours ago, BritTim said:

My strong suspicion is that the "over 180 days" limit is a guideline to officials similar to the six total visa exempt entries. That is: it is not a firm limit, just a notification to the official that you should be scrutinized more closely than usual as a genuine tourist. Thus, the questioning may not be a big concern (if you have a tourist visa) unless there are other red flags from the official's point of view. However, I think inevitably it will vary greatly from official to official how they react to the notification.

This was a rule a few years back something like 6 visa exempt entries in a year and you could not stay on visa exempt longer than 6 months. I cannot remember the exact rule but that is were they are probably getting this 6 months and 180 day rule from. This rule only lasted like 6 months at most one year as it turned out to be a fiasco. 

But as always it is people living in thailand on visa exempt, education visa, now tourist visa. People who are real tourist are the ones who pay the price and no Thailand isn't reall affected by refusing someone like the OP as they are really few and far between. Most Tourist come in for a few weeks maybe a month and are gone back to work or school. These are the people who spend money here.

[JackThompson]

21 hours ago, Loqador said:

About the money i had yesterday at DMK airport 30.000 bath in my pocket,my flight confirmation to Hanoi,hotel etc ... but they never asked me to show them my proofs. 

For a while, they were asking to see the money, then denying if people did not have it, while refusing to let them go to an ATM a few meters away and fetch it.  There is a written rule for this, and a refusal-stamp corresponding to an Immigration Act provision - though the IATA rules* say plastic is OK - so they were clearly bending this to fit.  They are now using a different rejection-stamp, indicating knowledge that the visitor cannot fund their stay.

I would definitely show the money "helpfully" whether asked or not - because if they do deny-entry, there is a space on their denial-form for recording this figure.  The higher the figure, the more foolish they look - taking that money directly out of the hands of Thai businesses.
 

* IATA Rules - reported in the past as what airlines use as a guide regarding boarding-permission.  Note "sufficient funds" is listed at 20K Baht for visa-exempt (listed as 10K elsewhere) - and this is "to cover their stay":
 

Quote

 

Visa exempt visitors over 12 years of age must hold sufficient funds to cover their stay (at least THB 20,000.- per person or THB 40,000.- per family). Proof of funds includes Letters of Credit, vouchers, MCO's or well-known credit cards, which are honored in Thailand.

 

Extension of stay is possible for visa exempt passengers.

 

Warning:

Visitors who are visa exempt but do not hold return/onward tickets could be refused entry.

 

Visa exempt nationals must have passports and passport replacing documents with at least half an unused visa page for entry/departure endorsements by the Thai Immigration Service.

 

https://www.iatatravelcentre.com/TH-Thailand-passport-visa-health-travel-document-requirements.htm

 

While this is not legally binding information, if there is a new policy, it would make sense to ask IATA to update their list, no?  Perhaps this is not done, because it would require someone with a higher-rank than "entry-point chief" to approve the change?

[elviajero]

15 hours ago, JackThompson said:

For a while, they were asking to see the money, then denying if people did not have it, while refusing to let them go to an ATM a few meters away and fetch it.  There is a written rule for this, and a refusal-stamp corresponding to an Immigration Act provision - though the IATA rules* say plastic is OK - so they were clearly bending this to fit.  They are now using a different rejection-stamp, indicating knowledge that the visitor cannot fund their stay.

The IATA guidelines are clearly wrong. "Plastic" has never been accepted.

 

Immigration almost always use either sections 12.2 or 12.3 as reasons to deny entry to long term visa exempt 'tourists'. That hasn't changed.

 

16 hours ago, JackThompson said:

* IATA Rules - reported in the past as what airlines use as a guide regarding boarding-permission.  Note "sufficient funds" is listed at 20K Baht for visa-exempt (listed as 10K elsewhere) - and this is "to cover their stay":
 

Quote

 

Visa exempt visitors over 12 years of age must hold sufficient funds to cover their stay (at least THB 20,000.- per person or THB 40,000.- per family). Proof of funds includes Letters of Credit, vouchers, MCO's or well-known credit cards, which are honored in Thailand.

The 10K is meant to be 'pocket money'. It is not the amount "to cover their stay". Not many tourists could survive on 333 baht per day!

 

Immigration publish the rules, which state 10K for visa exempt entry and that cash or travellers cheques are acceptable.

 

[BritTim]

4 hours ago, elviajero said:

Immigration publish the rules, which state 10K for visa exempt entry and that cash or travellers cheques are acceptable.

10K (20K for families) in the case of visa exempt entries, and 20K (40K for families) if entering with a visa are documented rules. I am not aware of anywhere that it is stated that only cash or travelers checks are accepted. I can see some logic in declaring that immigration should not have to check out credit cards, but none for preventing travelers from using their credit card to get cash at an ATM when they arrive unaware that the archaic cash only rule is in effect.