BREAKING NEWS British Embassy Bangkok to Stop Certification of Income Letters

[balo]

3 minutes ago, VYCM said:

t’s about bloody time, it should filter out all the dead wood (all the lousy miserable B@st@rds) and the legitimate ones will have to sell some of their assets back home to fund their retirement in Thailand.

So you want only the elite here ! 

Lots of good , honest persons on low income also supporting the Thai economy! 

 

Yes get rid of the bad guys and trouble makers. But the ones who always show up on time at immigration , who never overstays , and followed the rules. now they will also get in trouble. 

 

If you want an elite society , this is it. 

 

 

 

[wgdanson]

21 hours ago, alphason said:

Going by the notice posted by the embassy, under what do I do now? it says you need to show the income by transferring the minimum funds into a Thai account.

So are they saying just make a 80/40K transfer into a Thai account to prove the income, rather than show the 800/400K balance? Who verifies it, how many months income need to be shown? A lot of questions that I guess we will find out about in time?

No, they are saying transfer the minimum needed to satisfy the Thai Immigration. That will be Bht 65,000 per month ie Bht 780,000 per year. OR you could put Bht 800,000 into an account for at least 3 months. Up to you!

[Cricky]

4 minutes ago, balo said:

So you want only the elite here ! 

Lots of good , honest persons on low income also supporting the Thai economy! 

 

Yes get rid of the bad guys and trouble makers. But the ones who always show up on time at immigration , who never overstays , and followed the rules. now they will also get in trouble. 

 

If you want an elite society , this is it. 

 

 

 

the legitimate ones will have to sell some of their assets back home to fund their retirement in Thailand.

[flexomike]

21 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

I’m going to the US Consulate next week to get my Income Affidavit.  Of course the US never certifies anything(it is just an Affirmation Under Oath). I will ask if the US Consulate has plans to terminate this sevice?  In my case the 800K deposit is a no-go and direct depositing my pension into any Foreign Banks is also a no-go.  Maybe my time in LOS is coming to end soon?  

Please keep us informed as to what the US Embassy says about the income letter as this will effect many people,

 

[lamyai3]

3 hours ago, Rally123 said:

This new rule from the UK embassy isn't new. It was first published on 26 January 2014. So people have had almost 5 years to sort out their financial requirements. Always have a plan B.

 

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/notarial-and-documentary-services-guide-for-thailand

The new rule referenced in the OP was only added to their website yesterday. Prior to that the announcement contained information about how to apply for the income letter. 

[Time Traveller]

4 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Yes and no. Thai immigration have informed all embassys that if , after presenting an embassy letter to immigration, it is subsequently found that the information is false, i.e. the supporting documentation supplied to the embassy was fake (fraudulent), then the Thai government will hold that embassy liable to endorsing false information to Thai immigration. As the British Embassy doesn't have the capacity to legally verify every document presented to them as proof of income, and are unwilling to accept liability for false information, then the only practical course of action open to them is to refuse to provide such lettersTherefore, IO will continue to accept these letters but as the British Embassy refuse to accept liability for the information therin, no letters will be provided after January 1st.

What is your source for this information? The suggestion that "the Thai government will hold that embassy liable to endorsing false information"....is laughable. How could they even legally do that? The only person liable in a statutory declaration is the person making the declaration.

If would you said is true than that would explain why The British Embassy stop jumping thru hoops to please some ridiculous immigration demand. Good for them.

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, balo said:

So you want only the elite here ! 

Lots of good , honest persons on low income also supporting the Thai economy! 

 

Yes get rid of the bad guys and trouble makers. But the ones who always show up on time at immigration , who never overstays , and followed the rules. now they will also get in trouble. 

 

If you want an elite society , this is it. 

 

 

 

They want to be the morality police, the I am holier than thou. Don't believe in live and let live, some poor soul could have been screwed out of his life savings or lost it through a failed relationship and doesn't want to return home, but hey, I'm all right Jack.

[newatthis]

15 minutes ago, balo said:

Think about all the empty condos , and lost business . 

The old retired pensioner has to move out , he can afford a life here but not 800k in the bank.  I would think there must be at least 100 000 people who will get in trouble. 

 

So it will affect the Thai people and the economy , if you live on a small pension , lets say 50k per month , you can still live a decent life in Thailand. 

 

The logic is not there, it it?

They'll issue me a work permit and extend a non-B every year as a teacher on 37,000 per month.

But now that I'm retired. I've gotta have 65,000 per month. With all my free time, I'm going to drink 1000 baht a day?

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

From my experience British Banks will give you a poor rate of exchange, but I'm not an expert. It's normally better to transfer pounds to a Thai Bank.

This hasn't been my experience.

 

I have a single method of transferring monies from my UK account to my Thai account.

 

I have a Halifax Clarity CC which incurs zero foreign charges. Whenever my Thai account is getting low, I go to my local branch of BKK Bank and withdraw the required amount (typically 70k baht) on my CC. 60k is then deposited into my BKK bank account and 10k goes into my wallet. Not only is it free and instant (SWIFT transfer take 3-5 days and costs £9.60) but I get the Visa exchange rate on the day. I've checked this a number of times and found the rate as good as, if not better than TT money exchanges and always beats BKK Bank's rate by a margin. It also has the added advantage that, probably because the BKK Bank uses a chip and pin machine to make the transaction, my UK bank treats this as a purchase rather than a cash withdrawal. Therefore, if I pay the CC balance in a timely manner, I incur no CC charges.

[Cricky]

8 minutes ago, newatthis said:

The logic is not there, it it?

They'll issue me a work permit and extend a non-B every year as a teacher on 37,000 per month.

But now that I'm retired. I've gotta have 65,000 per month. With all my free time, I'm going to drink 1000 baht a day?

This is the logic

 

It is a clever move by the Thai authority, I have notice over the years the 800,000 baht is quickly spent over the next few months after the extension is issued, the funds being in a Thai bank account are easily accessible, I often spend on unnecessary items as others will do also.

[Spidey]

14 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

No, they are saying transfer the minimum needed to satisfy the Thai Immigration. That will be Bht 65,000 per month ie Bht 780,000 per year. OR you could put Bht 800,000 into an account for at least 3 months. Up to you!

Is that how it works now? I was under the impression that the only proof of income acceptable to Immigration was a letter from your embassy. Immigration will only accept proof of seeding your Thai bank with 800k baht from your Thai bank, not proof of monthly income.

[Expattaff1308]

22 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

The new rule referenced in the OP was only added to their website yesterday. Prior to that the announcement contained information about how to apply for the income letter. 

The link shows...

British Nationals should now demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 800,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 65,000 THB transferred into an account in Thailand. For marriage visas British Nationals should demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 400,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 40,000 THB. A bank statement should be used as the supporting document for obtaining a Thai retirement or marriage visa.

The Embassy is saying use bank Statements (Thai I assume as proof of depositing the required amount), but its not what the Embassy say that matters.

What does Immigration say is required as proof of the 40/65,000 income if the Embassy letter is no longer effective as proof

[Rod the Sod]

I have my time deposit of TB800k so that is that and I am lucky enough to forget about it until the day comes when I leave or die. For living expenses I draw cash from the ATM debiting my Hong Kong Bank account and I have statements to show that. It also makes my tax position very simple as no money is coming into a Thai bank account although the cash I withdraw is new money coming into LOS (I am retired anyway) and the ATM withdrawals are tapping into savings earned in past years. So no tax to pay. Thailand has made people who play by their rules welcome in the main. If you chose to play games with the system then either fix it or move on. The company I use for my visa insist all the right papers are in place and I pay nothing like some of the numbers quoted here.

[JackThompson]

27 minutes ago, balo said:

3 hours ago, swifty5x5 said:

I just went to get my new visa and for a fee the agent put the money in my account went to immigration did our thing and took the money back out. No problem

Good for you , but that solution might not work next year if Big Joke get his will.  

OTOH, maybe driving more agent-money is the purpose of the change - like with the EDU "crackdown."

 

1 hour ago, Chicken George said:

Read the original post.. The Brit Embassy cannot varify peopkes income.. Too many using fake bank statements etc.. If you cant fufill the requirement or do not have funds go home.. 

Some IOs are quoted as telling travelers "You must go home" - as if that were our only option other than Thailand.  Many of our nations were not protected and preserved by our elders for future generations to enjoy, so that's no longer a good option.
 

Fortunately, there are dozens of often-safer and much better cost/benefit alternatives to our homelands, few of which will ever foolishly make it difficult for foreigners to spend their foreign-sourced incomes into their country's economy. 

 

21 minutes ago, balo said:

Think about all the empty condos , and lost business . 

The old retired pensioner has to move out , he can afford a life here but not 800k in the bank.  I would think there must be at least 100 000 people who will get in trouble. 

 

So it will affect the Thai people and the economy , if you live on a small pension , lets say 50k per month , you can still live a decent life in Thailand.

Yes.  And sadly, it's Thais who would suffer most of all in a "crackdown."  We can always relocate to a nice spot in the PI, Cambodia, the Caribbean, etc.  But many Thais would be the ones forced to "go home" and farm to exist, when/if we are no longer here to help create middle-class opportunities with foreign-sourced income. 
 

[Jingthing]

There has been no announcement from Thai immigration that they will accept income based applications from any nationality without an embassy income letter. The British Embassy is being irresponsible telling their nationals to even try unless there is a change in Thai immigration policy officially announced. Brits can of course use the 800K baht in a Thai bank method properly seasoned. 

[Kadilo]

3 minutes ago, Expattaff1308 said:

The link shows...

British Nationals should now demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 800,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 65,000 THB transferred into an account in Thailand. For marriage visas British Nationals should demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 400,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 40,000 THB. A bank statement should be used as the supporting document for obtaining a Thai retirement or marriage visa.

The Embassy is saying use bank statements (I assume Thai to prove the income into a Thai bank) but it isnt what the Embassy say that matters its what is acceptable to the Immigration . We need to know what is required by Immigration.

Yes but it’s not saying how many months the 65,000/ month has to be shown. Or am I reading it wrong?

[Spidey]

14 minutes ago, Time Traveller said:

What is your source for this information? The suggestion that "the Thai government will hold that embassy liable to endorsing false information"....is laughable. How could they even legally do that? The only person liable in a statutory declaration is the person making the declaration.

If would you said is true than that would explain why The British Embassy stop jumping thru hoops to please some ridiculous immigration demand. Good for them.

From another Thai news source today.

 

That source also stated that a number of visa agents who routinely seed bank accounts, to satisfy the 800k baht criterium, have already been turned away from Jontien Immigration and told not to return.

 

This seems to be a serious attempt to eliminate corruption/fraud regarding applications for visa extensions, which we all know is widespread.

[DJ54]

United States Social Security 2018 - All information I gathered from internet which should be fairly accurate. 

 

The maximum monthly Social Security benefit payment for a person retiring in 2018 at full retirement age is $2,788 (@ 83,640 baht) per month.

 

However, the maximum allowable benefit amount is only payable to those who had the maximum taxable earnings for at least 35 working years. People that topped out for 35 years is a small percentage.
 

The estimated average monthly benefit for "all retired workers" in 2018 is $1,404 (@42,120 baht) per month.

 

800,000 baht in Thai bank or Income of 65,000 baht a month. Social Security alone you’d need to be getting $2,167 USD a month

at todays exchange rate. 

 

1 in 3 Americans have less than $5,000 saved for retirement 

 

There will be a lot of people if their only income is social security and not enough in savings won’t qualify. 

 

Correct me if I wrong. I recall reading something on the forum that

Policy may be revised to include property (assuming house/condo) as a booster per say towards money required. 

[lamyai3]

5 minutes ago, Expattaff1308 said:

The link shows...

British Nationals should now demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 800,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 65,000 THB transferred into an account in Thailand. For marriage visas British Nationals should demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 400,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 40,000 THB. A bank statement should be used as the supporting document for obtaining a Thai retirement or marriage visa.

The Embassy is saying use bank statements (I assume Thai to prove the income into a Thai bank) but it isnt what the Embassy say that matters its what is acceptable to the Immigration . We need to know what is required by Immigration.

This is the point, it wasn't on there prior to yesterday. I used the guidelines myself on the gov.uk site to obtain my own income letter based on providing three months of income statements earlier this year. 

[xylophone]

14 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

I would say its being done to satisfy the lawyers who have realised the liability at stake. Technically Thai immigration could sue the consulate for false information as its their signature on the letters. I am suprised they have ever done this as no other countries put their name to individuals claims, they only ever witness you making the claim.

 

I have been slogging my way through this and got to here need to give the eyes a rest, so a couple of thoughts so far which may have been covered, but which I haven't seen...........

 

If the above is the case, then perhaps getting a letter from a Thai Notary Public would suffice, in lieu of the embassy letter?

 

 And something which I don't think has been mentioned so far, but which applies in my case, is that I do get a monthly pension (actually that is two pensions from two countries) and the monthly amount is about 45,000 baht (540,000 per annum) so could I deposit 260,000 baht into my Thai account for a three-month period (a la seasoning) to make up the 800,000? This by getting bank statements to prove all of the above?

 

If not, it's back to the 800,000 baht three month seasoning method.

 

Comments appreciated. 

[vogie]

11 minutes ago, Spidey said:

This hasn't been my experience.

 

I have a single method of transferring monies from my UK account to my Thai account.

 

I have a Halifax Clarity CC which incurs zero foreign charges. Whenever my Thai account is getting low, I go to my local branch of BKK Bank and withdraw the required amount (typically 70k baht) on my CC. 60k is then deposited into my BKK bank account and 10k goes into my wallet. Not only is it free and instant (SWIFT transfer take 3-5 days and costs £9.60) but I get the Visa exchange rate on the day. I've checked this a number of times and found the rate as good as, if not better than TT money exchanges and always beats BKK Bank's rate by a margin. It also has the added advantage that, probably because the BKK Bank uses a chip and pin machine to make the transaction, my UK bank treats this as a purchase rather than a cash withdrawal. Therefore, if I pay the CC balance in a timely manner, I incur no CC charges.

As I said I am no expert, but when I first moved to Thailand 6 years ago I saved myself £500ish on  £10,000 transfer by using an agent, now I just transfer pounds and always get a better transfer rate from Kasikorn.

[Joe Mcseismic]

3 hours ago, smedly said:

wrong, the UK Embassy have stated that Thai Immigration will no longer accept the letters, go start at page one of this thread

 

If you do not believe what they have said then that is entirely up to you - take it up with them

 

No, it doesn't say that at all in the OP. It says:-

 

"This letter has previously served as a supporting document for obtaining a Thai retirement or marriage visa. The British Embassy Bangkok is stopping the certification of income letters because it is unable to fulfil the Thai authorities’ requirements to verify the income of British Nationals".

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, simoh1490 said:

And why should the UK Embassy do different from what the US Embassy does, is not self-certification sufficient for both countries!

This is an important question to which we will soon have the answer by observing whether the US Embassy continues with the practice or not. It should really be up to Immigration to decide whether it continues to accept statutory declarations or not, since that is all any embassy can be expected to do. If they still accept from others, but the Brit Embassy is discontinuing without good reason, that is really poor.

[JackThompson]

36 minutes ago, VYCM said:

It’s about bloody time, it should filter out all the dead wood (all the lousy miserable B@st@rds) and the legitimate ones will have to sell some of their assets back home to fund their retirement in Thailand.

Re: Getting rid of people who spend less than 65K/mo - but are still spending into the Thai economy (or would not be eating here) - and/or making others sell their assets somewhere else to jump a hoop.  These changes would make your life in Thailand better how, exactly?  How would it make Thai's lives better?  Please be specific.

 

36 minutes ago, VYCM said:

It is a clever move by the Thai authority, I have notice over the years the 800,000 baht is quickly spent over the next few months after the extension is issued, the funds being in a Thai bank account are easily accessible, I often spend on unnecessary items as others will do also.

I don't get it.  Certainly people can access the very same funds from a foreign account via an ATM?  I keep my money figures tracked in a spreadsheet.  Whether it is "here" or "there" doesn't change my budget at all.

[Peterphuket]

22 hours ago, colinneil said:

British embassy are a total waste of space.

 

Will it help for you when I say the Dutch embassy so too.

They all the same, they are not for you or me, but for the bic company.

[Expattaff1308]

9 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

Yes but it’s not saying how many months the 65,000/ month has to be shown. Or am I reading it wrong?

I would assume 12 months or total up of deposits over the year to amount to 800,000+ Would save a lot of bother if that is the case tho it does beg the question if that is acceptable now why hasn't it been before when a letter was the only proof acceptable.

My concern is that in the past use of income was only proven by way of the Embassy Letter, with no letter what will Immigration accept as proof, until we know that we cannot move forward and arrange such proof. We need an announcement from the Immigration.

[Spidey]

Just now, DJ54 said:

Correct me if I wrong. I recall reading something on the forum that

Policy may be revised to include property (assuming house/condo) as a booster per say towards money required. 

Not much use to those of us who own a house as it has to be in a Thai name or bought through a company, which in my opinion will be the next big crackdown on expats abusing the system.

 

My advice to anyone coming to Thailand to retire would be play wit5h a perfectly straight bat or don't bother.

[lamyai3]

20 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

Yes but it’s not saying how many months the 65,000/ month has to be shown. Or am I reading it wrong?

Just looked at the pdf I downloaded from gov.uk site earlier in the year, these are the instructions (3 months weren't specified, I got the information from one of these threads):

 

Consular  Letter  Confirming  Pension/Income for  Retirement  Visa  –  Fee  No  2  (i) This service  is  only  available  by  post.

The  Consular Section  is  able  to  issue  a  standard  letter  addressed  to  Thai  Immigration  confirming  your pension/income  to  support  the  renewal/extension  of  your retirement  visa.  This letter  is  a  Thai  requirement  and  the granting  of the  visa is at  the  sole  discretion  of  the  Thai Immigration  authorities,  not  the British Embassy. Requirements 

  Photocopy of your current  British passport  data  page  (page  with photo)

  Evidence of  your current pension/income  which  will be  returned  to  you

  Completed application  form Completed  form  as below.  Please  note  we  will use  the  financial  figures  provided  on  this form  and  will not  check  or amend any  financial  amounts. Please  ensure  the  pension/income  evidence  you  provide  is in  a  form  that  is simple  and  easy  to  understand  and shows  clearly  the  key  financial  amounts  that are  required for  inclusion  in  the letter. According  to  Thai Immigration, your pension currency  should  not be  converted  into  Thai Baht. 

[wgdanson]

7 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Is that how it works now? I was under the impression that the only proof of income acceptable to Immigration was a letter from your embassy. Immigration will only accept proof of seeding your Thai bank with 800k baht from your Thai bank, not proof of monthly income.

Read it again mate. At the moment you can get a letter from Brit Consulate saying you have at least Bht 65,000 coming into your UK account, from any source you want. Attach a few bank statements, pay £52 and you get your letter, no checking, verification, nowt. Now the Thais are saying that they want proof of this income by requiring you to actually transfer that Bht 65,000 income into a Thai bank account. No information yet as to whether you need to show 12 full months of transfers (Bht780,000) but I would suspect they will insist on this. The 800k has always been the same, seasoned for 3 months. Nothing to stop you putting that, plus some for 3 month's living, in on say 1st October if your date for extension is in January. Live off some of that money until October when you top it up to 800 again. Or is that too simple please?

[Kadilo]

3 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

This is the point, it wasn't on there prior to yesterday. I used the guidelines myself on the gov.uk site to obtain my own income letter based on providing three months of income statements earlier this year. 

There has to be some kind of transitional period for those using the monthly income route especially if your extension is due in the next few months. 

It’s all very well Thai immigration making sweeping moves but the need to publish some clear guidelines on expectations ASAP.